Justifiable?
 

Early one morning a guy notices a couple of guys attempting to steal his vehicle. He goes inside his upstairs apartment and gets his gun. The man fires and kills one of the suspected thieves.

Should he be prosecuted? Was he justified?


This actually happened.

Depends on the state. In Texas you can kill the repo man, no questions asked.

Personally, I say, he had every right to do it. And, if it were me, I would have shot to kill as well. Luckily for them, no one wants my old Buick Regal. That's cool, no hard feelings.

Hello ladies,

May I first begin by saying that I have been a silent observer of this board a little over 8 months. I would like to thank all the members of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc for all the words of wisdom shared throughout this board.

I have never been compelled to become a member and participate in the conversation until I read this thread. The situation posted by AKA2D '91, as described in the post, is premeditated murder and the perpetrator should certainly be prosecuted. I am not sure if I believe in the death penalty. However, I am positive that the man should not have killed the people attempting to break into or steal his vehicle.

I believe someone has a right to defend him/herself and anyone else if they were in immediate danger. However, the man discribed in the given scenario was not in immediate danger. How would he know that the suspects were trying to steal the vehicle -vs- merely breaking into the car to steal items inside? Please note, I am in no way condoning the felons for commiting this crime. However, that is why we have a judicial system. Citizens cannot and should not take the law into their own hands. This could cause chaos.

The question I would ask anyone who believes the owner of the vehicle was 'justified' in his actions: Is an automobile and it's replacable contents more valuable than a human life? That answer will forever be NO in my book. The owner of the vehicle could just as easily went back up to his apartment and called 911 to report the suspects and have officers come out. Even if the suspects got away with stealing the vehicle, it couldn't be worse than dealing with the car owner's conscience. Certainly reporting your vehicle stolen and filing a claim against your insurance would be much easier than dealing with the guilt of killing two people the rest of your life.

OK, sorry this post was so long. I just find it hard to believe that people think that it is OK to place the law into their own hands and deal with criminals any way THEY see fit. It is wrong and immoral.

Rae

That man was NOT justified in shooting the car thieves. The first thing I thought was why didn't he just call the cops or try to scare them away with the gun. :confused:

How can we get mad at cops for this type of behavior but accept it amongst ourselves?

According to New York State law, the shooting would not be considered justifiable and the shooter would be prosecuted. The car theft victim is supposed to call 911 and let the police officers deal with the perps.

Good topic!

If I had the nerve, I would shoot 'em up. Bang! Bang! But I wouldn't try to kill him.

I'm undecided on where I stand on this one.

I stand steadfast in the belief that the person who was being robbed is the victim and not the other way around. There are many innocent bystanders who are hurt or killed everyday but in this situation this person was not innocent. They were engaged in an illegal act against this individual who has the right to protect himself and his property. One of the Lord's commandments states that "Thou should not convent though neighbors property."

Therefore, not only was this person doing something illegal by United States law but also immoral by what I consider to be a higher law, God's law.

In my city we just had an incident where a 16 attempted to break in the home of an elderly couple and was shot in the head (killed). The elderly man was not charged but only a few days later his home was shot up. Arson has also been threatened. This couple has moved out of their home out of fear. The young man only lived about 4 houses down from them all these years.

I know the exact story you're speaking of. But I dont understand, this guy broke into the elderly couple's house. The husband feared for his life and the life of his family. If I were in the situation I would have done the same, no questions asked. That 16 year old wasn't coming by to make sure they had their daily newspaper. If you are bold enough to enter my house without owning a key then you have to bold enough to take the bullets thou will lay upon thee. The neighbors didn't like the fact that the elderly man protected himself and family from an intruder, but on the other hand they fired several shots into his house that could have killed someone. To me, this is similar to those who protest abortions, but kill or attempt to kill the doctors and patients in the abortion clinics.

Justifiable by what?
 

Ethics or law?

Was the shooter a marksman? If not, maybe he didn't kill him on purpose. That's the difference between him and the police. Policemen are marksmen, they don't have to shoot to kill, they can aim. Regular people can't (which is why they don't need guns). How far away from the robber was the shooter? How do we know it was premeditated unless we know he shot to kill? I don't think he should be prosecuted. Ol' dude shouldn't've been over there, he'd still be alive.

I don't know... I thought that if the person was on your property, whatever happens, happens. I remember learning something about someone stealing and running away from the house... you could shoot them as long as it was before they reached the sidewalk.

I bet his friend won't steal nothin' else, though. That's rehabilitation like a mug!

Re: Justifiable by what?
 

The lawyer on the news stated if a person breaks into your home you can shoot them, as long as they are inside your home, but once he/she is outside of your home such as on the doorstep, in the yard, etc., it's handled on a case by case basis.

not justified
 

I really don't feel that this shooting was justified. We're not just talking about an injury or property. We are talking about someone's life! That person's life is over with, and there is nothing that anyone can ever do to give back whatever future that person may have had to him or his family.

When Malcom X was a young man he was a thief, but look at the change he made. If he had been shot and killed at that time he would have never been able to impact our community the way that he did. Who is anyone to take away this person's chance to make a change, too?

Lastly, if the homeowner had shot and missed the thief but killed a small child, we would be yelling to "throw the book at him". Even though that didn't happen here, if he is let go it will send a message to others that this is acceptable. Then how will we feel if it is our child who is accidentally killed by a vigilanty taking the law into his own hands?

Re: not justified
 

In regards to a car theft, I ain't shooting no one that's stealing my parked car. I don't think that's justified. My life is not in danger when I'm in the house and you're stealing my car...unless you run my car into my house but that's another issue. Take the isht, so I can get another one, it's not that serious.

Now to the home invasion issue. We can always say what we shouldn't, couldn't or wouldn't do unless we've had a mother, sister, or even your father faced in a life threatening situation. Would I protect myself and my family even if it means shooting? Yes without a doubt. I wouldn't intentionally kill anyone, but everyone has survival instinct. Let me share a true story with you all. My sister was robbed and left for dead ten years ago. She was beaten beyond recognition. She has had several plastic surgeries to attempt to make her look as normal as possible. To this day she can't live a regular adult life. If I was with her, with a gun, would I protect her and myself by any means? Hell Yes! I wouldn't go around pulling a Charles Bronson but I'm speaking of protecting myself. This low life high school dropout career criminal stole a few damn dollars from her and robbed her of a normal life. He was never convicted for the crime.
Would he have made an impact in our community? I don't know the loser is dead. Someone violated him the same way he violated my sister. The only difference is he succumb to his injuries while my sister lives everyday with hers.

Loving this topic!!!
 

When someones shoots, stabs, etc. another person in the name of "self-defense", this is the issue that will almost always be brought up by police authorities, DA's office, etc (at least in New York):


Did the perpetrator (suspect) in question threaten imminent danger of death or grievous bodily injury to his/her victim(s)??

If the answer to that question is "yes", then the shooting would be considered to be justifiable. If the answer is "no" then the person can be charged with the shooting (charges will of course vary depending on whether or not the person shot lived or not).

I don't feel that the shooter should be prosecuted for the shooting. Plain and simple. Of course, it is absolutely sad that the young man is dead, however, he had no business breaking into that man's car. People work hard for their possessions and here comes Joe, John, and James Blow to steal it. GET YOUR OWN S**T!! Innocent people are killed daily because some clown doesn't want to get off of his a$$ and work to get his own possessions. Instead, they shoot and kill hard-working citizens everyday. Everyone is saying that he should have let the young man just take the car, CDs, etc., and just call the police. HELLO?!! What about the innocent people in the world who submit and turn over their items and STILL get killed?

:rolleyes: He should have been at home doing the right thing. If someone wants to be bold enough to REPEATEDLY come to my home and break into my car and steal MY stuff, then he should know that there are consequences.

Re: Loving this topic!!!
 

In answering your question, I don't feel that this shooting would be justified because the shooter could not have possibly felt that the danger was imminent. He saw them attempting to steal his car. He turned went inside and upstairs to his apartment, retrieved his weapon, returned and opened fire. He did all of this without the perpetrators' knowledge. He returned with intent to shoot and harm the perpetrators and should therefore be prosecuted for his crime. If he was really fearing for his life, he could have called 911 when he went into his home. I'm sure that he came across his phone before he got the gun.

Self-defense comes with limits. You are only allowed to defend yourself by physically harming another while you are fearinf imminent danger. When you have a chance to get away, you have to do so.

Couldn't this man just have yelled "hey you, get away from my car" from his window? Most people who break into parked cars aren't trying to hurt anyone physically. They just want to get away with some money. If they think that they'll be caught, they run, not fight.

A local news channel did a poll on this case. 80% of those polled said that they would have done the same thing (shoot to protect). 20% said they would not have shot (at) the suspected thieves.

Here in Louisiana, it is not justified. You, yourself have to be in immediate danger. The shooter (or victim, depending on how you look at it) is out on bond. He has a CLEAN record. I do not think the guy who was killed had a clean record. The deceased mother hopes that the shooter gets prosecuted to the fullest.

I'm torn. I do expect the mother to grieve for her child, BUT and it's a BIG BUT, his butt (her child) is a CRIMINAL. :rmad: How is that justified or excused?

Are y'all like Guardian Angels now?
 

Yeah, well God also says, "Thou shalt not murder" and that is exactly what this man did :eek:. God never amended that commandment to say, "....but if some fool ignores this whole coveting thing, the murder commandment is null and void, so do your thang."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by straightBOS
Personally, I say, he had every right to do it. And, if it were me, I would have shot to kill as well. Luckily for them, no one wants my old Buick Regal. That's cool, no hard feelings.

Are we now living in some third world country in 62 B.C. and y'all forgot to tell me? So, you'd KILL somebody over your freaking CAR? :eek: How can you say he had every right to do it? Since when do we have the right to shoot and kill anyone, especially some unarmed person who is not threatening your life? Well, you go ahead and do your thing. They might let you log on to GC from Attica.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RedefinedDiva
I don't feel that the shooter should be prosecuted for the shooting. Plain and simple. Of course, it is absolutely sad that the young man is dead, however, he had no business breaking into that man's car. People work hard for their possessions and here comes Joe, John, and James Blow to steal it. GET YOUR OWN S**T!! Innocent people are killed daily because some clown doesn't want to get off of his a$$ and work to get his own possessions. Instead, they shoot and kill hard-working citizens everyday. Everyone is saying that he should have let the young man just take the car, CDs, etc., and just call the police. HELLO?!! What about the innocent people in the world who submit and turn over their items and STILL get killed?

He should have been at home doing the right thing. If someone wants to be bold enough to REPEATEDLY come to my home and break into my car and steal MY stuff, then he should know that there are consequences.

Yeah, well go head on, Pistol Pete. There's also a consequence for murder...... it's called PRISON.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AKA2D '91
I'm torn. I do expect the mother to grieve for her child, BUT and it's a BIG BUT, his butt (her child) is a CRIMINAL. :rmad: How is that justified or excused?

I don't think crime should be justified or excused. The criminal should be dealt with ACCORDINGLY. While I do believe that everyone should be held accountable for the crimes they commit, I don't believe the price should be one's life (unless, they are putting another life in jeopardy and killing them is the ONLY answer). I mean, it was just a CAR he was attempting to steal. I think it's a sad commentary on society when we start valuing material things more than human life.

Would a store owner be justified in shooting and killing an unarmed teenager for stealing a candy bar? Especially once the child is out of the store? To me, it's the same thing. I mean, the child came into HIS store, stole HIS candy bar and the child is now a criminal. Man, we'd want the store owner put UNDER the jail. How can we say this man was justified and in the same breath say the police are wrong for all the MURDERS they've commited against unarmed black men? The concept of "God complex" is very fitting in this case.

are you serious....you can kill the repo fellow and get no time or nothing? Dayum you learn something new everyday on this site!!!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek:

The problem is that people are looking at it like the VICTIM chose to kill the criminal. I am not saying that my baby (my car) is worth someone's life, ESPECIALLY my own. However, there is such a thing as quick reactions (without thinking) and being SICK and TIRED!! I don't know what goes on in other parts of the country, but in the New Orleans area where this incident happened, criminals have NO respect for personal property and life. I can promise everyone in this forum that if it had been me, I would have most definitely shot at him also.

The man was shooting his gun to get these criminals away from his car. I hear people saying, "he should have yelled out or called the police." YEAH RIGHT! :rolleyes: Please believe that I have witnessed folks walk up to a person, with police less than 50 ft. away, and shot them! Do you think that some innocent victim yelling out is really going to stop the crime? Had the victim lined up, aimed for the head, and fired, then I MIGHT reconsider. However, I am in the least bit concerned about criminal's rights. What about my right to not have to sleep with a gun under my pillow because some fool might be breaking in my house or car? :mad:

No this man is not justified! Human life is more important than cars. WTF!:mad: :mad: Call 911 and let the police and your insurance company handle it. Everybody is still innocent until proven guilty. Those guys may have had a good reason for stealing that car. lol. Anyway, taking the law into your own hands is not right. That's why we have a justice system.

Yes, there are, in some states with old laws that allow you to kill a man who is attempting to steal your horse. Well, as we have invented this modern do-hickey with a combustion engine, the same rights to defend your mode of transportation have been transferred to the auto. Now, the Texas repo man has to wear this bright orange vest with the words "REPO MAN" across the front and back. Without it, he is DOA.

If they have a cable modem upstate, I'll be strizzy. Naw, but really, criminals are too dayum bold.

I feel that if a man is bold enough to try to take away the Buick--- right in front my own home, then he obviously believes that he has some guardian angel or Bionic powers that make him immune to the potential consequences of his actions. But, on Planet StraightBOS (my street); if you want it that bad, you'd better be willing to die for it.

Re: Loving this topic!!!
 

If people feel that the shooting was justified and/or felt that you would have done the same thing, then be prepared to accurately answer the above question, because you will be asked.

Re: Re: Loving this topic!!!
 

Are you kidding me? Respectfully, what part of Oz do you live in? In my city "Hey you, get away from my car" is received by "Shut Up B*%$ch" or worse a gun in your face. He did not warn them for fear that they would get him before he got them. How many car jackings have ended him grave injury or death? You cannot take to chance that a criminal just wants your property but they still may hurt you or take your life.

Furthermore, many peoples livelihood depends on their automobile. "I can't get to work," "I don't have insurance, " "Hell, that is my car." I am happy for the people who can say oh, just take it I will get a new one. You are truly blessed. However, I am not going.

I'm not killing for a car whether the car is parked or I'm carjacked. Take it...I don't care if it's my primary means of transportation. Where I live, if you don't have a car, you can't survive period. But if/when your car is stolen, damaged, etc., sometimes you have to do what you have to do even if you can't afford it. Why couldn't this guy shoot a warning shot in the air from behind his house or hidden where the thieves couldn't see him? Maybe they would run because shots are fired but they don't know where they are coming from. I would kill to save my life, but to save property, it's not worth it. But hey, differences in opinion and actions makes the world go round. And actions can sometimes lead to prison time.

I can't murder for a vehicle because I don't think I:

1. would like the issued prison uniforms and flip flops.
2. would do well in a cell like environment, living in a college dorm was enough for me.
3. would like to be Big Bertha from Biloxi's girlfriend.
4. am rough enough for a prison environment.

Hopefully my life is worth more than a motor, car battery, tires, etc. I hope your blessings aren't determined by your car value but your life value.

This happened in NEW ORLEANS!! There is NO such thing as firing a shot in the air and scaring somebody.

Anyway, my answer remains the same. I strike this as one point for victims. Criminals are getting to bold. Maybe his friend that got away (and other useless criminals out in the world) will think twice next time they consider commiting a crime.

Re: Re: Re: Loving this topic!!!
 

I grew up in West Philadelphia, which is far from being never, never land. But, this was not a carjacking, it was an attempted theft. The word carjacking implies that someone is trying to steal your car while you are still in it. That is a much more violent crime and warrants a harsher reaction. This man was not being carjacked; someone was breaking into his parked car. I'm not saying that he should risk his life, I'm saying that he had safer and more sensible alternatives to opening fire.

I also do not think that this man was fearing for his life. I think he was sick and tired, as Refined Diva stated, of crime in his community. Being tired of crime is not a justification of vigilanteism. If we are going to start saying that murder justifies a crime against property, then why don't we just send all of the policeman, judges, and lawyers home because we won't have any need for them.

It seems to me that people nowadays are just too comfortable and not willing to struggle or perservere in the face of adversity. Cars are a luxury, not a necessity. There are plenty of people out there struggling who are not going to miss work just because they don't have a car. Take the bus. Ninety percent of the people in this world can't afford all of the luxuries that we confuse with necessities. If your livelihood is your car, then you really need to get a life. A car is still not worth killing over.

That was just an idea I was throwing out :rolleyes: There is a such thing as what I mentioned, policemen do it all the time whether it be New Orleans, New Jersey or New Mexico. And maybe when more people who shoot for a doggone car get the jail time, they will think twice when they consider committing a crime to cover another person commiting a crime. Does that make you any better than the criminal you're speaking about? Once you shoot, you are a criminal yourself. He's a car thief and you're a murderer...so what now? So when you pray from jail what do you say....."well Lord he was stealing my car, I had to do it. You know how important that ride is." :confused:

Wow if you all kill for cars, I guess you would whoop a mean a$$ if someone stole your bike.

I sure would!! Why? Because it is MY bike!! I am not saying that murdering the man was the right answer, however, it was what happened. The murder was not absolutely intentional.

I am not saying that we should not rely on the police to solve crimes, however, sometimes nothing gets done and people don't start paying attention until something like this happens. We can not compare cities in incidents like this. Not all police forces are created equal. Do you really think that the police is going to devote hours to looking for a stolen car when some BOLD a$$ criminals decide that they are going to have a shootout on the corner while the police are in the middle of the block? It happened! Do you know what they did? The shot around the police. They were so intent on killing one another that it didn't even matter that the police were standing there.In cities like N.O. where the muder rate is one of the nation's highest per capita, car thefts are not high on priority lists.

I am not saying that materials and possessions are more important than life, but the fact remains that it's MY property!! Why should I have sympathy for criminals? Just like I work my butt off everyday, they should do the same.

I see that people keep saying that the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." However, it also says, "Thou shalt not STEAL."

I sure would!! Why? Because it is MY bike!! I am not saying that murdering the man was the right answer, however, it was what happened. The murder was not absolutely intentional.

I don't think I'm getting the gist here or maybe I misunderstood the exact incident. Did the man aim and shoot or did the gun accidently go off? Are you using the Chris Rock's phrase regarding O.J. " I ain't saying to kill....but I understand." Either way though, he went and got a gun.....intent. Not absolutely intentional is like not really pregnant....either it is or it isn't.

I am not saying that we should not rely on the police to solve crimes, however, sometimes nothing gets done and people don't start paying attention until something like this happens.

This has been happening forever. It's not a solution or deterrence to crime. It just may result in more criminal versus victim shootouts.

We can not compare cities in incidents like this. Not all police forces are created equal.

You stated shooting in the air doesn't scare people. I wasn't trying to make a comparison with cities. I was making an observation about tactics I've witnessed police use to intimidate people. The New Mexico New Jersey reference were places beginning with "New" to overstate the point, not an effort to compare similarities in car theft incidents.

I am not saying that materials and possessions are more important than life, but the fact remains that it's MY property!!

Yes you really are. When you put yourself out there like that you risk your life by doing so. Just because you come out of your house blazing, doesn't mean you will win.

Why should I have sympathy for criminals? Just like I work my butt off everyday, they should do the same.

I work my butt off also. I don't have sympathy for criminals, but killing is not the ultimate answer for the crime problem. Do you think this is really going to give criminals a "wake up call?" I highly doubt it. They are and have been sleeping through life, that's why they are trying to steal yours. Instead of a wakeup call this may in turn backfire and make more criminals make sure they are packing just in case.

I see that people keep saying that the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." However, it also says, "Thou shalt not STEAL."

So does justifying one sin with another makes it right or does it just make you feel better about shooting for a car or whooping a mean a$$ for a bike? Please don't think I'm attacking you or your opinions because it's not my intent. Even though I may disagree, I respect your opinions.

It's all love. I appreciate and respect a hearty debate. :D

Of course you have your opinion and I have mine. I am not trying to change the way that you see things or your opinion. It's just voicing another side of the story. If it seems like I am putting materials over life, so be it. What's the difference between killing someone outside trying to steal your car as compared to someone in your home? NOTHING. Why? Because you are still killing. In either case, you still have to ask for forgiveness from the Lord. That's personal between that man and God.

Of all the people in here that say that they would not have shot at the man, who has actually been a victim of crime? If you have been , why would you have reacted differently than this man?

Originally posted by RedefinedDiva

What's the difference between killing someone outside trying to steal your car as compared to someone in your home? NOTHING. Why? Because you are still killing.

NO it is not at all the same thing. It is the difference between shooting someone to save a thing and shooting to save your life. If you don't see the difference between a life and a material posession then I can't begin to explain it to you.


In either case, you still have to ask for forgiveness from the Lord. That's personal between that man and God.

Well when you kill someone else it is also between that man and the family of the deceased, the friends of the deceased, and anyone that that person's life ever touched. It also becomes a matter of law.

What right does the murderer have to take this man's life? Yes he was stealing a car, but that does not give you or any of us the right to say that his life was not worth more than a CAR. The only person who can say that that man's life was worth less than yours and mine is God, and I am not comfortable having anybody on the street feeling that they are capable of making that distinction in his place.

What would you be saying if in shooting at the thief he had hit a passer-by? It is essentially the same situation. Who can judge between the life of the passer-by and the life of the thief? One was an innocent, but life is life. Only God can judge between them.

Of all the people in here that say that they would not have shot at the man, who has actually been a victim of crime? If you have been , why would you have reacted differently than this man?

I have been a victim of a number of crimes, lol. I was born and raised in NYC! I have been stalked, and my house has been robbed TWICE. Would I wish DEATH on any of those people? NO! I am not equipped to judge whether they deserve to die for wanting my tv. I would want them in JAIL. I would want them to suffer JUSTICE as mandated by our court system, not by the subjective morality of the man on the street.

I would also want my stuff back, lol.

The difference is you're fighting for your right to live, not drive. Murder is wrong true enough, but if you think you're about to be murdered you protect yourself and children. Self defense and intentional murder are different. I fail to see the correlation in the value of a life and the value of a depreciated car. I know I would have reacted differently because maybe I'm a rare breed, but I don't value or have an obsessive behavior about a vehicle as much others. I'm thankful to have a car, but I don't hold worship services in it's honor. Let me miss a few payments and it's no longer mine anyway. But hey look on the bright side, if you win the shootout, you can sell the car and use that money for bail or your retainer. Hopefully the resale or fair market value of your car is high because I've heard those legal fees ain't no joke. You won't need any more transportation to work because after the charge, you'll be fired anyway. Wrong choices in the eyes of the law can get quite expensive.

As I've stated previously, I've seen the effects of a violent crime. My sister was beaten and left for dead in North Memphis. My cousin was stabbed to death in her apartment in Bartlett. It was a home invasion. Neither case was solved due to lack of evidence. No one has literally put a gun to my head, or stolen my car, but I've felt what crime can do nonetheless. Can you say you know what it feels like to be robbed of something that doesn't have a price tag? If attempted theft of property equals murder, what does attempted theft of life equal? Does living have an equivalent or does property rule over all?

Yes, I can. Unlike having my house burglarized like LovelyIvy has, I have been the victim of armed robbery/attempted murder. Was my life worth a material item? HELL NO! However, tell that to the fool that robbed and tried to kill me! I just thank God that I am alive to be able to type on this forum. Have I also lost something that doesn't have a price tag? HELL YES! Try having nightmares about a gun clicking at your head. Or how about being terrified of people coming close to you. There is more to it, but I will keep those matters to myself.

With that being said, I will not try to further explain my reasons for agreeing with what happened My opinion will never change for reasons that I feel comfortable with. My opinion has been continuously taken out of context, however, it's cool. I will not attempt to correct the points that were misunderstood. It's not even a issue for me anymore. Obviously, everyone has their own view of how they would have handled the situation. I respect everyone's points and opinions. :)

Was my life worth a material item? HELL NO!

Thank you. I've been stating this all along.

I just thank God that I am alive to be able to type on this forum.

He's worthy to be praised and I'm glad God spared your life.

Have I also lost something that doesn't have a price tag? HELL YES! Try having nightmares about a gun clicking at your head. Or how about being terrified of people coming close to you. There is more to it, but I will keep those matters to myself.

I'm sorry that you've gone through that and thank God you're alive. In your situation your life was in danger, so if you killed the man it would have been self defense. He tried to rob your LIFE, the PROPERTY was a secondary issue. Do you see where we are going here? LIFE is PRIMARY. PROPERTY is SECONDARY or of lesser importance...not of equivalent value. A car theft resulting in death of the criminal without you being in imminent danger is intentional murder. An attempted theft of your life resulting in the perpetrator's death is a justifiable homicide. An attempted parked car theft and being a victim of an armed robbery/ attempted murder are NOT comparable to one another not in the least bit. I don't think there is anyone in this world that could give a logical comparison of equivalence. You've further proven what I've been saying all along. Your LIFE value is more important than a depreciated car value. Your life's circumstances and the mere fact you're here to participate in this dialogue makes you an authority and a living witness to this testimony of life.

With that being said, I will not try to further explain my reasons for agreeing with what happened. My opinion will never change for reasons that I feel comfortable with. My opinion has been continuously taken out of context, however, it's cool. Obviously, everyone has their own view of how they would have handled the situation. I respect everyone's points and opinions. :)

I tried to quote you to refrain from taking your opinions out of context, but if you feel I did this unjustly then I do apologize. But as I've stated previously, I may not agree with your opinions, but I respect your right to have, give, and stick with one. :)

WOW!
 

I certainly understand how we get fed up with being the victim time and time again. However, it still shocks me how those who claim to be Christians and walk in the footsteps of Christ have so little reverance for human life. This MURDER was WRONG! Human life is more improtant than material posessions in any situation. By taking this man's life you make a permanent decision w/o even knowing all of the facts/circumstances or giving him the benefit of the doubt. Yet, it does not matter what we really feel is justified or what we "claim" we would do if we were in that situation. The bottomline is w/o a doubt this man will be prosecuted. If you murder someone for trying to steal your parked car from the front of your house you will be prosecuted. I don't think it is worth it for any of us to lose our entire life b/c we overreacted.

Re: WOW!
 

Now, you know you can open up a HUGE can of worms with that sentence. So, we better not got there.

A lot of things shock me, too from those who claim to be Christians, walking in HIS foosteps and it has nothing to do with or is not limited to killing someone, either. ;)

what about this situation?
 

what do people think about this situation? I saw this posted on another forum...


http://www.keithboykin.com/

The Strange Case of Cory Maye
Picture this. You're a black man asleep in bed at home in Mississippi. It's the night after Christmas 2001, and no one else is in the house but your 18-month-old daughter. You hear a loud thud and suddenly the sound of feet stomping on the floor outside your bedroom door. You grab your gun. A white man bursts into your bedroom with a gun. You shoot first. He dies. Is this self-defense or murder? :confused:

Let me add a few facts in favor of the prosecution. The white man lying on your bedroom floor is a police officer. Moreover, he's the son of the police chief. :eek: And his fellow officers say he identified himself as he was conducting a lawful warranted search of the apartment for drugs. Police say they found traces of drugs in the apartment.

But here are the facts in favor of the defendant. Even if the police officer did identify himself, the defendant was asleep and never heard it. The warrant the police used did not list Cory Maye as a suspect but instead listed a different suspect in a different apartment in the building. There were no drugs found in Maye's apartment that day, although the police later changed their story to claim that they found traces of drugs. The defendant had no prior criminal record. :confused: As a black man in Mississippi, he feared for his life and the life of his young daughter. Yet the defendant was convicted of murder by a mostly white jury and sentenced to death. The defendant, Cory Maye, now sits on death row. :mad:

....to find out more -- you can contact the Mississippi State Conference of the NAACP at (601) 353-6906 or you can contact the Region V NAACP offices in Atlanta at (404) 688-8868 to talk about the national office response and how you can join in the struggle.

Re: what about this situation?
 

From the limited info in this post, the verdict is bogus. Yet another reason that the DP should be removed in all states. He is on death row, probably, b/c the guy was a cop. States often have increased penalties when they are killed. Of course, other factors may have come into play - race, the idiosyncracies of the members of the jury, including the power dynamic in the jury room (which I have seen firsthand), etc.

Further, if the warrant was not for his apt. then the cop was completely out of line for coming into his apt. That doesn't mean that the cop should be killed but it's just another example of problems in our justice system - just like in any other system.

If MS does have a separate offense of killing a cop, I wonder if the state even provides self-defense as a defense to the offense. Even still, whether he was using self-defense may be questionable if he didn't even wait to see if the person was really acting with an intent to inflict bodily harm on him. Further, SD only gives the right to use the force coming at you - so not deadly force if the person isn't threatening deadly force or serious bodily harm (so you can't shoot someone who is coming at you with an open hand to slap you for instance). Still, on general principles of life and fairness, it seems like you ought to be able to shoot if someone's in your house and still coming .... It doesn't make sense to me.

Removing the fact that he was a cop, this definitely doesn't seem like the type of facts that should lead to a death sentence. Adding in the cop factor, MS probably has some kind of increased penalties for that and that's probably partly why. Anyone of us could have made this same mistake.

Re: Re: Justifiable by what?
 

Because neither burglary nor car theft is a capital crime, people should not be permitted to kill those who commit them. However, if some fool is attempting to break into MY home, you can bet I WILL shoot him dead BEFORE he gains entry, as is lawful under Louisiana law (LA R.S. 14:20). If its my car he is after, then the severity of my reaction will depend upon the circumstances, including my car's proximity to me and my house.

For the record:
Justifiable Homicide in Louisiana
LA R.S. 14:20

A homicide is justifiable:

(1) When committed in self-defense by one who reasonably believes that he is in imminent danger of losing his life or receiving great bodily harm and that the killing is necessary to save himself from that danger.

(2) When committed for the purpose of preventing a violent or forcible felony involving danger to life or of great bodily harm by one who reasonably believes that such an offense is about to be committed and that such action is necessary for its prevention. The circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fear of a reasonable person that there would be serious danger to his own life or person if he attempted to prevent the felony without the killing.

(3) When committed against a person whom one reasonably believes to be likely to use any unlawful force against a person present in a dwelling or a place of business, or when committed against a person whom one reasonably believes is attempting to use any unlawful force against a person present in a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), while committing or attempting to commit a burglary or robbery of such dwelling, business, or motor vehicle. The homicide shall be justifiable even though the person does not retreat from the encounter.

(4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle. The homicide shall be justifiable even though the person committing the homicide does not retreat from the encounter.

(b) The provisions of this Paragraph shall not apply when the person committing the homicide is engaged, at the time of the homicide, in the acquisition of, the distribution of, or possession of, with intent to distribute a controlled dangerous substance in violation of the provisions of the Uniform Controlled Dangerous Substances Law.

Added by Acts 1976, No. 655, §1. Amended by Acts 1977, No. 392, §1; Acts 1983, No. 234, §1; Acts 1993, No. 516, §1; Acts 1997, No. 1378, §1; Acts 2003, No. 660, §1.

Texas is such a unique place.....:p

I admit, I would have no problem shooting someone who tried to mess with me or my property. Although I would probably shoot to maim, and go for the knees.

As for homey in Miss.....That's why I can't live in the South.:(