Transferring/lying about sororities?
 

hi guys. When someone transfers universities, how can they verify that they were actually affiliated with the sorority they say they were? I mean, if your new school doesn't have your chapter, what stops someone from saying they are in a new sorority/fraternity and just forging everything? One girl told me she did this when Phi Mu wasn't offered at her new school. She just bought a bunch of KD stuff and forged the form etc...

What exactly are you asking? Are you saying that an initiate of Phi Mu hid that fact and tried to join KD?

The internet is forever. You will get caught. Next.

I believe what you are describing is called "perping"... Trying to claim membership in an organization that you don't really belong to. Seriously? You think that we don't check our national records? Someone actually thinks we don't have lists of our initiated members that can be accessed in a nano-second? SERIOUSLY? That is seriously delusional.

yeah
 

hi i agree. i was pretty shocked when she said she acted like a KD and they believed it...that's why I didn't understand why they didn't check her records...

Paperwork has to be completed in order to transfer (e.g. the transferring chapter has to sign off on a member, verify grades, etc. for the new chapter). You don't just show up and get accepted.

Of course you contacted KD to let them know they had an imposter. Right?

It was after the fact....she had graduated when she confided that in me. She told me she forged everything.....

Not believing this for a second. When a chapter submits their membership list to national, the lack of a prior record would show up.

I think I get it now ....an initiated member of Phi Mu transferred and claimed to be an initiated member of KD at the new school? For that to even be plausible, this would have had to occur before the age of social media and with MANY officers (both chapter and national) totally asleep at the wheel. In the event of a transfer, doesn't the new chapter have to contact the old one to ensure that the member left in good standing? Wouldn't paperwork have to be completed by nationals in order to update their system and change the transferee's chapter membership?

So you came here NOW to post this? And you didn't answer my question about contacting KD. Even "after the fact" (how convenient).

... pretty sure I know who you are ...

hey now
 

Hey now...you don't have to be rude...I didn't even think to contact KD when she told me this. I was pretty shocked and surprised. And okay i'm 99% you don't know me. lol

I would imagine all sororities work similarly to mine. If this person had somehow successfully convinced the chapter at her new school that she was one of them, and transfer paperwork had been delayed, it would have been caught when the membership list was submitted to headquarters for the semester. So I ain't buyin' it.

This same exact question happens to be posted on that site in the Cornell section. That's odd considering Longhorn Mom's one daughter with the "successful" rush just happens to be at Cornell.

The only other school she posted the same message to there was UVA. Cornell has chapters of both KD and Phi Mu. UVA only has KD. How convenient.

It's possible this person didn't want to affiliate with the KD chapter and owe dues and time. Maybe she just wanted to hang out with them and get some reflected glory.

Another unbelievable aspect of this tale is the forged paperwork. How would someone get hold of another organization's forms?

There are many obvious ways to spot a shady KD :D

lol. ^ very interesting responses. anyone else? I was pretty stunned she didn't get caught. I wondered if the girls in KD really liked her and didn't want to rat her out so they just let her play along?

Are you Greek?

LOL....no.

Not that anyone here remembers any KD perps... ;)

Don't worry, we also know where else her questions lie. ;)

Now I'm curious. :eek:

Lulubre, so you're interested in AI with Alpha Gam?

It is one thing to have been an initiated member of a sorority or fraternity at one school, transfer to a second school, and then affiliate with a chapter of another sorority or fraternity at the second school, purporting to have been initiated into that other sorority or fraternity at either the first school or a third school. The members of the sorority or fraternity at the second school could take the individual at her or his word, especially if she or he had some supporting documentation and seemed knowledgeable about the [second] sorority or fraternity. But I would think that the members of the sorority or fraternity at the second school would take the precaution of testing the individual for secret motto, grip, and other secret material that enables members of a sorority or fraternity to identify other members and expose imitators/impostors/fraudsters ... every sorority or fraternity has such signs and other additional secret identifying material. If the new sorority or fraternity was suspicious or duly diligent, it would check with the chapter at which the individual purported to have been initiated and/or with its (inter)national HQ. So I suppose an individual could get away with this sort of deception, but the second chapter would have to be very careless/inattentive to enable it to succeed.

It is, however, quite another matter for an individual to have been an initiated member of a sorority or fraternity at one school, transfer to a second school, and then join a second sorority or fraternity from the ground up ... by rushing, being bid, accepting the bid, pledging, and subsequently being initiated, all without ever mentioning membership in another fraternity at a previous school. There is no way that the members of the second sorority or fraternity could know that the individual had already been initiated into another fraternity at a different school if she or he simply kept her or his mouth shut about it. There is no central registry of all initiates of all sororities or fraternities against which sorority or fraternity HQs check or cross-reference the pledge or the initiate lists submitted to them by their respective chapters. I personally know two different people who have done this. In one instance, the sorority or fraternity into which the individual had been initiated did not exist at the school to which the individual transferred, and the individual was not interested in attempting to start a colony/chapter of that sorority or fraternity at the second school. So she or he simply rushed at the new school, and joined a different group. In the other instance, the individual was dissatisfied with the sorority or fraternity that she or he had been initiated into, and, upon transferring, likewise had no interest in attempting to bring that sorority or fraternity to the second school. So she or he likewise simply entered into the greek system at that school at the base level by rushing, and subsequently pledging and being initiated into a another sorority or fraternity. It was no problem in either instance; the individuals simply had to pay two sets of pledge and initiation fees, and be completely mum about their respective initial memberships. I would not be surprised if this has happened numerous times.

But they told you, so they must not have been able maintain their discretion. Was any action ever taken against them by either of the groups each one joined? I feel that at some point, this could still catch up with someone even if they've gotten away with it during their college years, especially with social media and alumni/ae finding long-lost sisters and brothers via Facebook.

I know nothing about fraternities, but I sincerely doubt this has happened too many times among sororities. It would take super-human will for nothing to slip out about the previous membership. The member would have to keep quiet. The parents paying the bill would have to keep quiet. Any friends or siblings visiting her would have to be in on it.
And now, it's so easy to find pictures or other evidence online.
Sure, I'm sure it has happened.
But not that often.

They both told me, in separate conversations years and miles apart, several years after they graduated. And I have seen their names on alum lists, and both get correspondence from both their respective organizations.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen but I'm wondering why one of the two groups hasn't expelled them if they now know about it. Also, as far back as the 70's, my group has had a rule that chapter at campus B has to get written approval from chapter at campus A to pledge a woman. So if I went to Oregon State and was a member of AAA and then moved to Texas Tech, my org at TTU would check with our chapter at OSU to see if I had ever been thru recruitment and what the outcome had been. Then my chapter at TTU would tell PH that I already belonged to AAA and they would stop me from participating in recruitment. It would have been hard to do what you say.

Out if curiosity, what time frame was this?

Also, were the sororities similar in size and scope? Don't name names, but I'm just trying to get a handle on this. I know that unfortunately there were/are campuses out there not well versed Panhellenically, to say the least.

I know it has happened at least once. I even posted it several years ago on another thread. Girl is initiated in ABC at one school and transferred to another school out of state. There is a chapter of ABC on the campus but she did not feel "she would fit"so she goes through recruitment and pledges DEF instead and actually if my memory serves me she served as president of DEF. Eventually, of all people, the reference writer for ABC, who lived in another state, got wind of it after the girl had graduated. She did report it to ABC who I believe reported it to DEF. Not for sure what happened.

I am familiar with one situtation which took place in the early 1990s. Woman joined XYZ at one university then transferred to another university which did not have a chapter of XYZ. She went through recruitment at the second school and joined a different NPC chapter. All was going along smoothly until someone from the chapter at the first school saw her wearing letters belonging to a different organization. The NPC organizations got involved and she was dismissed from the second organization she joined. She may have been dismissed from the first organization, too, but I am not 100% sure of that. I am certain, however, that the second organization dismissed her.

This was in the early 1990s, in the dark ages. Keeping this kind of secret in today's world of ever present social media would be very, very difficult.

I'm somewhat confused...could you please clarify? I'm not sure if you're referring to affiliation (checking with the original chapter if a transfer student claims to be a member of your group who joined at another university, which seems reasonable and I think is common place), or if you're saying that ALL transfer PNMs are checked out with the chapter of your sorority at the transfer student's original university, to see if that chapter can verify if she joined any sorority at the original school. That seems like it would require a great deal of investigative effort/communication on the part of both chapters, especially if it's attempted before recruitment starts and you'd have to research the whole pool of transfer PNMs. What if there isn't a chapter of your sorority at the original school...does the new chapter still attempt an investigation? Like calling PH at the original school?

Only if there is a chapter at the previous school are we supposed to check. It's possible they had a rec on her when she went thru and they would have record of that. I actually was involved with checking a PNM who had been thru recruitment at school A and came to campus B with a good rec from a neighbor. Checking with her previous campus we found a "no" rec - and it was a valid reason. The neighbor knew nothing about the information in the "no"rec. It saved us from a mistake.

Thanks for the expanded explanation!

In the 70's one of my fraternity friends said one of their brothers voluntarily pledged another fraternity because his father was a member of the second fraternity and very upset he couldn't share ritual with his son. He was accepted at both houses and I assume supported both financially.

This actually happened in my chapter during the late 80s. A girl transferred and went through as a sophomore. She had rushed, pledged and been initiated at her old school. Her house was not at our school, so she rushed again. She and several friends pledged my house. About halfway through the pledge process it was found out. It was never announced how, but my guess is one of her friends that pledged with her told someone. It was kept very hush hush within the chapter. At any rate, she was immediately terminated from our chapter. She continued to drive around with our letters on her car and introduce herself as an "Xyz", wear old event shirts, etc. She kind of brazened it out and acted put upon that she had been removed.

I agree with other posters that something like this would be harder to get away with now due to social media.

I knew a guy who was a member of two fraternities. He was initiated his freshman year at a school in California then transferred to Tulsa University where they did not have a chapter of his organization. He pledged and was initiated into a different fraternity. It was found out his senior year but he retained membership in his second fraternity. I believe he resigned and returned his Pin to his first fraternity. And this was in the 1980s so it was a little harder to run the paper trail. Sadly, he died a few years ago of cancer.

I can see how someone could be a member of HIJ at one school, transfer and go through recruitment and pledge MNO at another school. But if the HIJ transfers one college and shows up on the doorstep of MNO at the other college saying she's an MNO -- how would she pull off admission to the chapter meeting? She'd need to know the password/knock/grip and the opening ritual. There's a reason for the chapter officer called "guard."

AGD, I interpret the original question the question to mean that person belongs to HIJ at Snowflake University. They transfer to University of Another Part of Country hat does not have an HIJ chapter. They go through recruitment again, this time at UAPOC and do not tell anyone they are a member in good standing of HIJ. VWX offers our two timer a bid and they accept and are initiated. They are now members of HIJ and VWX, supposedly members in good standing at both. Neither group know they belong to the other.

DaffyKD