Sorority Life... ahead drama factor nine...
 

... because we don't have enough threads about this show :)

We've just seen the latest and, errr, greatest. Opinions?

I think the sisters did the right thing by calling the new members on the carpet about leaving formal... but Becca is right, it should have come from her. Also, although each new member -was- spoken to individually, the sisters who spoke to them came in and publicly said "We want to talk to you, and you, and you." That wasn't handled very well.

I also don't see a lot of the much-vaunted "sincere sisterhood" in support of Jordan when she's just lost a family member... then again, she wasn't so beat up over it as to skip formal to be with her family... then again, maybe it's all on the cutting-room floor.......?

I was watching tonight for the first time in a while, and while I agree that the pledges should not have left formal I don't see why the sisters confronted them the way they did. Becca said that she was going to talk to them and I thought that that was the way it should have been handled, especially since the pledges are her responsibility. I was also confused about how, even though they talk about how sisterhood was so important to them, they don't seem to act like it a lot of the time. IN my chapter the new members are treated like every other sister except for ritual, and except that new members aren't exposed to any bad feelings within the chapter because the new member period is SUPPOSED to be fun. I don't see the Sigma pledges having much fun with their sisters. It's probably how MTV is portaying it, but how are they going to get women to rush them after seeing what a hard time the pledges on the show (allegedly) had?

I also thought it was pretty ballsy of Jordan to pull the "poor me, my grandma just died" routine after the act she pulled at the formal (when she was also theoretically feeling upset about her grandmother, correct?) -- but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt since I know grief can hit us all in different ways.

I also thought it was on the rude side for Ann to go up to Jordan and speak to her about the formal issue while Jordan was broken up over her grandmother -- but I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt too because for all we know, Jordan might not have even mentioned to the sisters that her grandmother was dying. And either way, Jordan's subsequent outburst was uncalled for.

Ditto on the way the "talks" with the pledges were held. Becca should have been the one to talk to them first.

I thought the bit with Jordan's mom in it was cute.

And this MTV-injected trip to Las Vegas intended to up the drama factor (and probably just to get the girls in more trouble)? I don't know what's worse: the fact that MTV is so blatantly setting these girls up or the fact that they don't realize it.

As much as at I didn't like Jordan in the beginning, I do feel sorry for her now. She went to formal because, and I am pretty sure about this, I think her mother told her to. She actually really wasn't going to go. But I think everyone told her she should go and try to have as good a time as possible. I mean she already had the dress and everything else she bought. And in either case, she didn't look like she was having much fun. I think the sisters, in this episode, were the REALLY bad ones. I mean we have been seeing the pledges do all this stupid stuff but then for the sisters to go and THREATEN Jordan, Candace, and Amanda the way they did was really unfair. After this episode, my opinion of this retarted sorority has gone even more down than it already was (if thats even possible). I mean it was disrespect basically. While they shouldn't have left the formal (I do completely agree on that), everyone should listen to their side of the story. Plus, ok they did bad, but give them a chance to apologize and correct their mistakes don't treat them like children and completely dis-respect and threaten them or go and take Becca's job away from her (who would have handled the situation much better). We all Jordan won't make it to iniatation (and Mara I heard won't either) but I don't think she should give up on sororities. I see her possibly fitting in better in a national one, but thats just my opinion. (yes that doesn't mean I am dissing local sororities!)

I personally don't think that Amanda, Candance, Mara, and Jordan want to be apart of any sorority especially not the Sigma's. I think I remember hearing one time Candance saying something good about meeting new people, but all they ever do is complain. MTV could of cut it all out, but come on, can we hear one positive comment from the other girls PLEASE.

They are going to be seniors next year and I don't know why they wanted to join in the first place. Usually when people wait that long to join a sorority, they usually really want to be apart because of what sorority stands for or because of the sisterhood that they see and they desire the same thing. And it usually shows that they want to be apart. I really don't see any respect from these women. From the beginning, I have always felt that these girls were just doing this to be on MTV and I still believe that now.

Okay I missed last nights episode so can someone fill me in on what happened? Thanks!

I missed it too! can somebody please give me the 411?

Thanks!

In a Nutshell . . ..
 

Sigma sisters meet to air concerns about pledge behavior- leaving formal and changing hotels. It was agreed that Becca as pledgemaster would get pledges side of story before any action taken - some sisters want to vote out pledges now rather than later. Before Becca gets to meet with pledges, 2 or 3 sisters go to pledge house to discuss/confront Amanda, Candace, Jordan and Mara - Mara not in. Amanda and Candace basically lie about not intending to go to another bar during formal. Jordan and Mara hang their hotel situation on the fact that one of the sisters told them that leaving the hotel was up to them.

Pledges call Becca - she's understandably pissed and she speaks with pledges later. It was basically aired - no apololgies made, but after weekly pledge meeting, sisters bring up drama again which leads to drama/cussing exchange between Jordan and a couple of other sisters - also Mara listens to sister that planned formal (I can't remember her name) but refuses to apolgozie for anything.

It doesn't appear that all of the sisters even know Jordan/Dede had deaths in their families, but I think Becca knows.

Sorry to be devil's advocate, but:

Unless the actives specifically set rules as to when you could leave formal and where you were "required" to stay, then I don't think they have the right to complain about the "pledges" leaving. You cannot spring rules on someone after the fact...

However, I will say that I thought it was rude...perhaps they should take this as a lesson. They should set forth rules about formal if they want rules followed. Like have them sign an agreement that if they attend formal they will stay at the assigned hotel or they will not be admitted, and they will leave at the designated time.

To me saying that there has to be specific rules that say you can't leave during formal is to me unnecessary. It would be like saying you have to enjoy yourself at our formal and act like you want to be our sister. I don't think that they thought that they were breaking a rule, but I just think that their feelings were hurt because they walked out.

Re: In a Nutshell . . ..
 

CrucialCrimson,
Thank you very much for the summary :)

I saw the show this afternoon. :eek: My goodness! Wow. If Jessie wanted to express to the 4 pledges what she felt about them leaving formal, she could have asked Becca if she could speak to the pledges at the time that Becca spoke with them. I understand that Jessie was upset and perhaps she was not thinking all that well, but the way her and the other sisters treated the pledges was just outright rude and in very poor taste. "We need to speak with you, you and you!" She did not even give the pledges an opportunity to explain their "wrong-doing."

I do agree that the pledges leaving was rather rude; however, that was their choice. Of course, there are no rules that say that the sisters/pledges need to stay for the entire length of formal; that would be silly. Most people would want to be at formal for a good amount of time, but hey, some people just want to make an appearance and then move on. That's fine if that's what they want. Who are we to judge them? But tell me this, who has formal until 2am? I am sure it started at 7pm-ish.

The pledges did act in a manner that was inappropriate but the way they were approached, "threatened" and not allowed to speak by Jessie and her "gang" was very inappropriate, far more inappropriate than Candace and Amanda trying to get a quick cheap drink from a bar across the street.

I think Jessie needs to be "talked to."

Oh, and BTW, I have always liked Mara. Recently, though, I have come to not be able to stand her. I thought she was so sweet, but have seen how arrogant she is. On MTV.com she posted this message:

"k, so i am a total snob. i would not go camping, ever. not if you paid me. the hotel was scary, so we left. and by the way leslie, the camera crew didn't approve of the neighborhood also, but they aren't allowed to do anything about it.

maybe i am a huge snob, and a pissy brat. but people who know me already knew that. however, staying in a dangerous part of town has nothing to do with my bratiness. i have already admitted to being a JAP. the thing is, i like being a brat. and last time i checked, i don't see leslie, becca, or leah necessarily roughin it in the wilderness either..."

Later, she goes on to say:

"ok, and while i may be bratty about hotels for formal, it was just that. a sorority formal. it is a rather selfish and bratty occasion by nature isn't it? i mean really, let's celebrate ourselves and our nice lives at the westin st francis...? so therefore if i wanted it to be nicer, and was willing to pay to do that, i really don't see why that is so problematic. i didn't leave because i thought i was too good for sigma, or to disrespect the sisters, or for the cameras, or any of those things. i left because i was bored, we were in san francisco, figured i would get out and see the town. had i known they were all gonna go crazy i wouldn't have gone to the formal in the first place. i don't really like to be places where i am trapped and am forbidden from leaving..."

:rolleyes:

PUH-LEEEEASE!!

Okay, sorry for my lengthy post. I can't wait to see how Vegas turned out! :D

Hi all,

I don't usually post, but I thought that since I have so many thoughts on the show I'd make an exception.

SAEPI reminds me so much of my own chapter sometimes it's scary. My chapter has been around almost as long as Sigma. I've also seen so many girls pledge our chapter simply so they can wear letters and say that their in a sorority. Then they realize that there's actually work involved in our pledging process and that we're serious about our goals and values.

Its also hard to run a chapter thats so young and inexperienced. Especially when most of your founding sisters have graduated or no longer hold a position of power. (Even when you belong to a national.) But hey someones got to do the job.

I think what this chapter needs right now is a group discussion session, pledges included. My chapter once had a situation where a newly activated sister accused myself of other sisters of "un-sigma like behavior" :( (I guess its sort of the reverse of whats happening on the show). This totally tore apart our group. A line was drawn and sisters began to take sides.

Our pres solved this be setting aside our new business at our next chapter meeting and having an open discussion (following parliamentry procedures of course). This way everybody got to hear every side of the story. In the end everything was worked out and the missunderstanding was brought to a close :). We can make jokes about it now but at the time the whole situation was very upsetting.

I do think that what Jessie and the others did was very unwise. I understand that they were upset but it helped Jordan and the others turn the situation around. Instead of helping them see what they did wrong Sigma now looks like the bad guy. I think both groups need to apologize. Althought I think that Jessie was wrong that doesn't excuse Mara's rude behavior. Jessie did apologize to her. Mara should have done the same. Finally (after a post I didn't intend to be so long) I kind of think that if Ann hadn't said what she said Jessie was on her way to apologize to Jordan as well, but was waiting for her to get off the phone. But alas we shall never know.

What about all the other pledges and why is it that the bad ones were picked to be in the house. (I guess there wouldn't be a "good" show if they were all good).

I think if you took Jordan away from the girls she is pledging with and put her in another chapter she would be a good sister. She seems to really care unlike some of the other girls who just role their eyes.

And where are all the actives. We never see them doing things with the pledges. I know in my chapter we do things all the time, invite them to go out, have dinners, they come to chapter, ect...

To me, Jordan has had the worst attitude out of all the pledges -- remember when all the girls were getting their bigs, and everybody else seemed excited except her? All she could do was roll her eyes; she couldn't even fake being excited.

And as was pointed out before, the actives and pledges probably do things together -- I think we've seen them at clubs together at some points during the show -- but it isn't shown because it isn't going to gather the same kind of ratings as Candace making out with Amanda's crush, etc.

Anyway, notice how almost all the girls in the house are 21? MTV did that because those would be the girls who could legally drink and MTV hoped that with all the drinking and clubbing, lots of action would ensue. Of course, as older women who have already been in school a couple years before pledging the sorority, they're a lot less likely to respond well to being ordered around by the sisters, etc.

some of you guys said that at formal there are no rules...we always had rules at formal! esp. for the new girls bc they didn't know what was expected of them. no, they could not drink unless they were 21 or unless it was during their new member period...(we always had dry nm periods, but formal was usually the weekend after initiaiation). noone was allowed to leave unless they were a. asked to bc they were out of control, or b. it was medically necessairy. you could never leave bc you were bored! and everyone always went together and left together.(unless of course you were sent home, where you would be put into a rented cab that you would have to eventually pay for with an alumni or older sister.). and our formals could not go past 4 hours. they were usually 8-12, with post party's there after that could get totally out of hand...but it was not the sorority's function anymore.
and who serves liqour during a presentation anyway?

It would be nice to think that all college-aged women would know what type of behavior is "expected" of them at any formal function - sorority or not - but in this day and age that cannot be assumed, i.e. inebriation and sunglasses are bad ideas. If an organization has particular expectations or traditions, they need to find a way to share that with their pledges/new members, etc. This might be a NPC or Sigma no-no but I might have even had them play a role in the planning or work with the committee on set up or presentations just so there is some buy in and their first formal is special as opposed to it being someone elses party! After all, they took a day to go shopping for dresses, but it doesn't seem like they did anything else to prepre them for the experience! I guess even the shopping trip wasn't a "supportive" activity because someone should have told Jordan about her tacky, tropical paradise attire! I say that jokingly because I'm actually starting to like her. I'm still not understanding the Big Sis/Lil Sis relationship - is it over after the revealing ceremony - they don't seem to maintain a supportive/mentoring bond.

I was wondering about the Big/Little Sis relationship too. Is the only point of a Big sis is to give the little sis gifts?:confused: Do they form any type of relationship with each other?

"I guess even the shopping trip wasn't a "supportive" activity because someone should have told Jordan about her tacky, tropical paradise attire!"


I'm glad someone else notice how tacky her dress looked.


#7 snuggles
DST - RVA 12/93

I guess it's all about reading your group. For example, Jordan's physical appearance wouldn't have been at all out of place at my chapter's spring formal. I was dressed as a Gypsy Queen, my date wore a Zoot Suit, and several people came in Renaissance dress. And no, this was not a costume ball.

That said, inebriation is definitely not in style.

We have social contracts that we have to sign before each event.

Let this be a risk management lesson to them.

In my chapter no one is allowed to drive if the formal is off campus which it normally is. (They also have to be in the same county unless we have permission from HQ). No one can leave without permission or calling a cab without the aproval of our risk management chair either. In a way this sucked during my undergraduate career because we see the men having their formals at nice hotels in Indy or Chicago and we are always stuck in good old Muncie, but after watching how the sigma formal went I am glad that we all have to stay together, and sometimes we find out that the bus ride might be one of the funniest and best times of the night. Hense singing some getto song or something. Also if anyone shows up drunk they are sent home and we have security that gives us wrist bands at formal for those of us that are 21.

The "rules" regarding formals in my chapter weren't so much hard-and-fast as unwritten rules of politeness. Semiformals were usually dessert only, so couples would go out to dinner on their own and then come to the semiformal, spend an hour or two, and leave whenever. (The exceptions, of course, being the social chair, risk management chair, and anyone who volunteered to help with setup or cleanup.) Formals were usually sit-down dinners, so you would stay for dinner and speeches (which were generally between courses). The only excuse for being out of the room during speeches was the call of nature - and we never established a punishment for walking out mid-speech because it just wasn't done.

The only hard-and-fast rule was regarding alcohol. Alcohol is never served at any AEPhi-sponsored event, including formals, even as a cash bar. However, our formals were pretty much all at hotels, and if there was a bar elsewhere in the hotel, you could get a drink there and bring it back (not during speeches, of course!)

Funny story about the alcohol... My senior year, our fall semiformal was in a local hotel, in one of two function rooms. In the other function room was a bat mitzvah party. We had a really good DJ, some nice desserts, but of course, no booze. Next door they had a full open bar, but the band was playing songs that the adults had picked and the kids hated... so the kids kept trying to sneak into our semiformal to dance, and the poor hapless security guard had to keep shooing them out! My husband and I joked that we wanted to arrange an exchange... the kids could come to our semiformal to dance if we could go over to their party and get a drink... :D

in my chapter our bigs were there for us all during our nm period, and there after. even when we go back for homecoming and stuff, my big and i always catch up and i also still talk tomy lil's and grandlil's. if something like what happened to jordan in my chapter her big would either stick up for her, comfort her, and also talk to her about her behavior.

Bis Sisters
 

The role of the big sister is to guide and prepare the new member for initiation into the sorority. Its definitely not a one week deal. In most orgs it is a mutual choice. Many bigs/lils end up best friends even after the little becomes an initated sister. Remember, don't be discouraged by what you see on TV.:D
I pledged in 96 and I still love and miss my big!

zchi2 & UCLA girl, and anyone else who's interested in reading a really too long post about this already well chatted about subject:

The Big/Little sister relationship is, ideally, a mentoring one. This relationship is supposed to be far more than cute gifts. Yes, it is fun to give someone their first set of letters and other paraphnalia, but it is also more meaningful to introduce a new member to the traditions and activities of your chapter. I remember not only the fun of bid day but also the experience of making my Diamond Sister (that's what we call them) sit down and write her graduate school applications. I wanted the best for this woman, knew she had all the potential in the world, and I was determined to see it actualized. This was the tenor of the Diamond Sister relationships in my chapter.
Yes, I sat in front of my TV and wondered where those pledges' big sisters were. Why didn't one of the big sisters of those pledges get up and see where those girls were going? Why didn't anyone tell them to slow down on the drinking? (I think that confrontation would have definitely made it on-air, if it had happened. And that's an act of simple human kindness--drunk girls wandering around a large city are not safe.) Honestly, why weren't they sitting with the active sisters at their tables? We used to make certain that "families" sat together at tables during formal, it was nice to have women from different years experience it together.
I have to admit that this show is truly addictive, I wait each week to witness the lows that these women will sink to. And I go between feeling terribly sorry for the Sigma sisters to feeling self-righteous anger that they are getting exactly what they deserve after entering this *****ian pact with MTV.
I guess I have to keep reminding myself that this is actually a very new, local sorority that would be having growing pains right now regardless of the television element. So their choices in new members were obviously less than smart. (These girls are the most self-entitled, self-obsessed, self-righteous group of women I have seen in a long time. I love how they were wondering "what would Sigma do if we all left?" Honey, they would celebrate. And excuse me but when did satisfying ones every petty need start passing for "individualism'. Thoreau is an individualist, Mara is not. Sacrificing ones small needs for the good of group actually used to be a virtue--can these girls ever imagine that? UGH.)
Can we truly keep saying "well, MTV wouldn't show anything boring like studying together or their participation in Greek Week etc.." don't you think we might have been privy to at least one of the big sisters dropping by that pledge house to sit and have a conversation with their little sisters if it had been a regular occurence and became a part of the day to day activties of these pledges. I vote yes.
Okay, this subject is so talked out and I have tried to refrain from saying anything but I got to admit the whole thing has me hooked.
violets

considering the faces Jordan made because her big was younger than her, I'd doubt they have a very close relationship. :rolleyes:

it could be the bigs might be some of the sisters who did not want to be on camera and were not shown for that reason.

UCLAgirl - my big has been my big for 16 years now and she is STILL a great support to me, and my little is my best friend. they both sat through the whole viewing with me when my mom passed away. So as for is the support system really there - most definitely. :)

My thoughts on Bigs and Littles
 

In my opinion, the relationship between a big and little (or whatever term each organization uses!) is a support system. A big will sponsor, lead, teach, be the shoulder to cry upon and be the one person that the little will know she or he can go to when they have questions or need anything. The big is the person to help their little learn about the organization. They will do all they can to help their little be ready for initiation, and help them learn those things which must be learned before and after initiation. The big is the person who generally guides the little and is their friend. Sometimes, this develops into a close true friendship. Other times, you may not be the best of friends but hopefully you both will have a good, positive and supportive relationship. I had a decent relationship with my own big, but we weren't best friends and that's okay. She was there for me when I needed her during my pledgeship and I needed it :)

TV editing is a scary thing...what we saw in regards to Sorority Life couldn't have been the whole story. It's quite possible that if the bigs knew about the deaths in their little's families, they were there for them. We don't know. I hope that the girls received more support than we were allowed to see on the show.

Honestly, it's not about gift giving. It really isn't. Gifts are fun, of course! It's exciting for our newest members when they get their first gifts with XYZ or AB on them! Having said that...

<jumping_on_proverbial_soapbox>

Too many chapters of any given sorority too often seem to focus on "what am I going to give my little" or "what did I get/what did you get from your big" and so on. I love hearing about creative gifts that are given that are from the heart. It breaks my heart when I hear about sorority members who don't feel they can afford to have a little. It's not about money, it's about helping the newest members of your sorority (or fraternity) become initiated members. It's about showing by friendship and example what being a member of your chapter and your organization is all about. It's about supporting the idea that our memberships are a lifetime commitment. It's about the history and the future of each organization and ensuring that history is learned and cherished. It's not about money. A chapter of my sorority has a tradition that the bigs give their littles a lavalier. I think that's a beautiful tradition, not only are they giving a gift with meaning for all of us, they are continuing a tradition which strengthens their bonds and history. I love that. Other chapters have a tee or jersey tradition with bigs and littles. Still others put a small dollar limit to encourage handmade items for gifts.

<jumping_off_proverbial_soapbox>

Let me know what you think.
Fraternally,
Christin

I missed the big sis revelations. Who are all the big sisters of candace, Jordan, Mara etc?
By the way this is off subject, but I really like Leslie on the show. I am also happy that Becca is the new President.