Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

August has been Youth Month at our church and yesterday, was the last day of our youth "revival". The youth choir sang some original music and one of the songs included a "rap" in the middle of the song. Some of the older church members were noticably uncomfortable by their youthful "spirit". The kids were "bouncing" and rockin' to the music...the whole nine. I, personally, enjoyed it and am happy that our youth are finding a way to express their spirituality. Our youth also want a Step Team. Our pastor is against it. However, it got me thinking.

Then, I was watching BET and all the gospel videos, etc. I'm not sure about how I feel about all of this "bling-bling for Jesus".

I was raised in a very "bougie" black baptist church. I was taught at a young age that clapping was NOT allowed or appropriate in church. I will never forget the time that a visitor came to our church and was clapping to the music, standing, and praising. One of the older church members called over and usher and ordered the usher to tell this visitor to STOP. :eek: So, when I became an adult and my husband and I selected the church that we attend, I was very hesitant, at first to PRAISE and WORSHIP. I finally understand that it is OK to clap your hands, stand up and PRAISE THE LORD.

But back to this gospel music thing....has it gone too far? What is too far in your eyes? There are a whole bunch of gospel rap artists out these days. Does all of the "rapping" and "beats" take away from the true message at hand?

I remember back in June when my church organization held it's Annual Holy Convocation. That Saturday evening we had service and the speaker's message was there needs to be a change in the Church. Sometimes we have to make changes in what we're doing, how we're doing it and sometimes you have to change who is doing it. The issue of rap in gospel music came up. I agreed with what he said - if you want to reach the youth, you may just have to "rap" about Jesus to some of them. You have to go down to their level sometimes to get them to understand what Jesus is about. The Gospel is supposed to be explained so that even a child can understand. As for the Baptist church you used to attend, they must have forgotten about Psalm 150:"....Let everything that have breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord". Did they also forget that in the Bible, David danced and praised the Lord so much that his clothes fell off his body????

Just my opinion, that's all. ;)

At my church, we offer what's called "High Energy Praise and Worship" service for the youth. The youth pastor preaches the Word using rap, music vidoes, live music, etc. It has really been quite successful in bringing more youth out to the church to hear God's Word. :D

Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

LMAO. Girl, that sounds like me. Girl, clapping and standing up? :o ohhhhh no! Moms would give the LOOK. LMAO!
Since I go to church without her, I've learned to clap my hands, stand, etc. :D

Yet, I feel funny when I'm with her and I do it. :o

Edit: To answer your question, YES some of these people In Gospel have gone too far. Some of that praising is straight up clubbin' (dance). :rolleyes:

I'm torn on this issue. I htink that has music changes, obviously gospel music will change with it. I think its important to reach youth in the best way BUT some of it is out of hand. Butterflying for the Lord is not ok!!!

I agree. I'm COGIC (church of God in Christ) and some young individuals from my mom's church wanted to start a group called "The Gospel Mafia":rolleyes: :rolleyes: . How ridiculous in my eyesight.........The word Mafia has always been associated from my understanding with murder, shadiness under the table, John Gotti, etc. Why would anyone want to put Mafia in a title to honor the Lord. Eventually this group left the church because Bishop wasn't having it....and I don't blame him.....

Honey I know what you mean about growing up in a "bougie" Baptist church. If my momma knew I clapped she'd DIE and if she knew I wore pants to church she'd turn over in her grave! lol:D
But personally, I think alot of these "traditions" in the church were man made with absolutely no biblical references to substantiate them.

In regards to gospel music, it IS evolving. But sometimes, I think some artist are missing the true sense of the word of praising God for mere entertainment. Bobby Jones....for example...is an entertainer. ....Anyways...
A person not strong in their faith may hither themselves to the word being sung (if they have a message) but how long will it last when the music stops? So in essence the parishoner has only been entertained not saved, healed, or delivered.

Considering that our world is changing, we too must change. But the individualistic question becomes is what we are singing relevant to what God wants us to do.

Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

Well Prayerfull, I was also raised in a very "bougie" black Baptist church and left (in my early twenties) because I didn't feel that I was being "fed". I now attend a church which is non-denominational, however it would be considered "holiness". Our Bishop, a TRUE man of God, one day said that many churches get so caught up in TRADITION that they forget the TRUE purpose of the church. And I agree with him TOTALLY. The church that I now attend WELCOMES creativity IN THE NAME OF JESUS. Yes, we have an awesome choir, praise and worship teams, a step team, dance team, drums, keyboard, etc. (and, believe it or not, the majority of the members of these teams are...ADULTS). We sternly believe in praising the Lord with songs, cries, hand clapping, and dance (and I don't mean the Harlem Shake). :D :D Now our Bishop ain't no joke either. He's not going to have all kinds of non-sense going on in our church (Gosh, I just LOVE him so because he's a TRUE man of God and he's just so REAL). :) :) But people haveto remember WHO we are praising and calling out to. In essence, this is how I see it. The Word says that God is a "consuming fire". And when He gets a hold of you, it's literally IMPOSSIBLE to be still or keep quiet. Remember also that "when the praises go up, the blessings come down". God INHABITS and DWELLS IN the praises of His people. God loves for us to worship and praise Him. Finally, I want to remind you that our God is an AWESOME, WONDERFUL, MAGNIFICENT, LOVING, TRUSTING, FORGIVING, MERCIFUL, GRACEFUL, ALL-KNOWING, ALL-SEEING, ALL-DOING God. Just THINKING about that, I know that you would agree that He's WORTHY and DESERVING of AAALLLL the praise (that INCLUDES hand claps, dances, cries, and songs). :) :)

Now doing the BUTTERFLY for the Lord is over the top, to say the least. :D :D And I believe that many so-called "gospel" artists have completely LOST THEIR MINDS (for example, I just can't STAND Kirk Franklin). They are using the church to make a profit. But, hey, God sees them. And He's going to handle them.

Re: Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

I just wanted to thank you for the reminder. I am in a TRUE struggle right now in my relationship with God and your post really did help put things in perspective for me. You just never know who you are touching with your words, so I just want to encourage everyone to keep the posts coming.

Re: Re: Re: Has Gospel Music Gone TOO FAR?
 

You're quite welcomed, Bamboozled. :) :) You are not alone. Not too long ago, I was there also. I just want you to know that there does NOT haveto be a struggle in your relationship with God. He wants you to be at peace. He wants you to trust Him. He wants you to know that He absolutely LOVES and ADORES you. And He wants you (along with everyone else) to KNOW that HE IS GOD. Here is some added food for thought. For a long time, I went mostly on what OTHERS (yes, even my mother) told me about God. Sure, I could quote you something out of the Bible and even give you a so-called "meaning". But I was going purely on what OTHER PEOPLE were telling me and not what God wanted to reveal to me himself. You see, I didn't know what a real PERSONAL relationship with God meant until I arrived at a state of utter CONFUSION. You see, I've learned that God does not dwell on what man dwells on. "His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts". We can't even BEGIN to think like Him. He's just way beyond what we can even begin to comprehend. So many people think that God is some type of tyrant who gets kicks out of seeing His people suffer and not prosper. But He's soooo much more deeper than that. All I can say is TALK to Him...that's all He wants. He YEARNS for a relationship with us. Just talk to Him...and then LEAVE it with Him. The Word says "I have never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed bear bad bread". You haveto KNOW that you KNOW that you KNOW that you ARE the righteousness of God. Then, and ONLY then will you cease to be confused.

I'm praying for you (and you do the same for me, okay?). :) :) :)

WELL
 

THE GOSPEL MAFIA???? Oh my! lolllollol! Doing too much!

I do think sometimes it's going too far, like D.L. Hugley said in his stand up. I'm waiting for Kirk Franklin to accidently cuss while up on the stage.:p

I was raised in a baptist church where we yelled and praised. I loved it and I still do.


QTE

Culture vs. Christ
 

VERY GREAT TOPIC AND DISCUSSION!!!!!!

I have truly been blessed and challenged by the discussion. The issue of Gospel music going "too far" is an interesting one. What is "too far"? How do we determine it? From the posts I've read, it seems that too far is meant to be "too worldly"(i.e. doing the same dances that an unsaved person would do or the music having the same beat as some secular music does). So the issue here is "what is the culture of the church?" Some people would argue that the culture of the church is the culture of the people of the church. There are Arabic Christians, European Christians, African Christians, and African-American Christians, etc.. This means that people are going to relate to God and their worship experience in different ways. Some Caucasian people have a very liturgical approach to worship (everything scripted and they are more reverent in their worship) while many African Americans are more emotive and expressive in worship (more free and improvisational). I see the body of Christ welcoming all people and their different ways of worship. I just caution people on believing that one way is "truer or more authentic" than the other. What we see here is not differences in Gods worshiped or spirits present, but simply different cultures. I have seen file footage of whodun people in Haiti and some West African Muslims who get the so called "Holy Ghost" (working themselves up in a frenzi and expressing themselves with dance that seems uncontrollable). Often times we as African Americans confuse this with an infilling of the Holy Spirit. The bible teaches us that the fruit of the Spirit (the evidence of the spirit's infilling) are kindness, longsuffering, love, peace, joy, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Gal. 5:22). Not a specific dance or anything that we can only do in a church building or setting.

Many times when I hear people talking about things going too far, it is about a cultural difference, not a spiritual or biblical fallacy. Dancing is subjective. There are certain things that different people would deem inappropriate, the same with beats in music. Now if you limit your worship to the Sunday morning worship experience, then I could see where this would be a major issue. Rap is a cultural phenomenon which can be used to reach people, Paul uses the greek philosophical sayings to reach some greeks with the Gospel (read II Corin.). Is it appropriate in Sunday morning worship? I think it should be up to the individual and the body of Christ should recognize its diversity. The more intriguing question is is the use of rap music and hip-hop culture wrong, not whether it goes too far. But that is another thread.
AGAIN, THANK ALL OF YOU FOR THIS TOPIC!!!!

Blackwatch!!!

Sometimes they take it there
 

I was just talking about this with a friend of mine this weekend. She called me and told me to watch the new Mary, Mary video. I was like WTH:eek: . The video had a club scence to it and while the dances weren't raunchy it was a bit too much. I do believe that there are different types of way to worship and I see nothing wrong with gospel rap or more upbeat gospel music. But when you can't tell the difference between which one is secular and which one is gospel then I think it has been taken too far. I was floored the first time I heard Kirk Franklin say "bouyaka, bouyaka" in a gospel song:eek: . Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that some thing that reffers to gunshots belongs in gospel music. :(

Morning All - just a few thoughts to share:

- if we are really in the word would be really be worried about the order of service;

- how is it that Kirk Franklin and others know all the dance steps that I see folk doing in the club;

- if your soul is not being feed why not move to another ministry - - - God is still God;

- theres nothing wrong with drums, clapping, and all that - - - if that's what you like - - - move as the spirit leads you that's what its all about;

- The bottom line is that folk need to seek God before choosing a church home and the rest will come.

I think praising God through dance, song, clapping is okay. 2 Samuel 6 says that David leaped and danced before the Lord with all his might (that's a lot of leaping and dancing). There is nothing wrong with dancing as praises to God. (Psalms 149:3, Psalms 150:4, Ecclesiastes 3:4). Or clapping (Pslams 47:1, Pslams 98:8) However when dancing becomes sexual in nature, then you go from dancing for God to inticing other people to fall to lustly desires and that's sin.

I think it's interesting that other cultures have incorporated gospel lyrics into other particular styles of music with no problem. There is Christian country, rock, contemporary, opera, folk, etc. However, as soon as somebody comes out with Christian <gasp> rap, it can't be glorifying to God. Now, I don't particularly care for rap music, but if that's what somebody's preference is, who am I to say that it isn't pleasing to God? I've never done cartwheels in the church aisle before, I dont' see myself doing it anytime soon, but am I going to tell Sis. Jenkins that God is not pleased with her athletic contributions to the praise service? I am a firm believer that the lyrics and the messenger makes the music Christian, not necessarily the style.

On that note, I was HIGHLY UPSET when I saw "Bad Boy Entertainment" (after I confirmed this was P. Diddy's record company) with a song on my WOW Gospel 2002 CD. Now, that, in my opinion is TOO FAR. I don't care how famous you are, if you are singing about premarital sex, drugs, cohabitation, and living contently in these states in your own life, I don't want to hear you make any attempts at a gospel song. That's just plain hypocrisy and you better believe I returned the entire CD.

Is that to mean that you have a problem with secular artists singing or making gospel records? I understand where you are coming from, but to say that they can't sing gospel, well, I don't know about that. I won't pass judgement like that on anyone. Sad to say, but there are probably those who have a career in making gospel music who are not leading their lives entirely the way that they should. BET has a new show on Sunday afternoons, "Let's Talk Church" and this particular topic was discussed. People like Pastor Shirley Ceaser (who by the way has a song with DC's Michelle Williams - "Steal Away"), Andrae Crouch and Howard Hewitt were the guest panelists. They all agreed: No one has the right to say who can and who can't sing gospel music. You can't make those limitations on people.

Just my opinion, that's all.

FeeFee you beat me to the reply. I'm with you. From the words of The Color Puple "Sinners have souls too."

Great minds think alike!!!

http://www.plauder-smilies.com/happy/xyxthumbs.gif

I think the church and gospel music is in a transition period. If many of you recall the same "controversy" that exists today with contemporary gospel and gospel rap existed when what we now consider traditional gospel first came on the scene. Thomas A. Dorsey and many other pioneers in gospel were criticized for bringing the "blues in the church."

Yesterday's gospel music will not reach the generation of today. We have to meet unbelievers where they are. The youth of today are into hiphop. I see nothing wrong with flavoring the inspired Word of God with beats. There is a message in the music.

No, I'm not a big fan of gospel rap, but then again, I'm not apart of the hip hop generation either. It is our job to win souls to the kingdom. How many people have you brought to Christ? As long as souls are being saved and lives are being changed, I say keep on making the gospel rap and any other forms of expressions that draw men to Christ.

No, I don't think christians should be doing the holy butterfly either. That's ridiculous! But, someone quoted the scripture from Jeremiah that it is okay to dance unto the Lord. We all have different means of worship. You may scream and shout, I may sit and be solemn. Whatever the case maybe, God says, worship in spirit and in truth! That's what matters!

Anybody CAN sing gospel music. FeeFee, no where did you or anybody on this message board hear me say that they couldn't. I said that I didn't want to hear it. And, yes, sinners have a soul too. :rolleyes: I'm not marching around the building of Bad Boy Entertainment yelling that they are defiling the name of God. But what we must understand is that there are impressionable people out there who think that they can live like they want to live the rest of the week and live righteous on Sunday. And if Christians claim to love everybody, I don't see how we can sit by and let that happen. I believe that people who sing songs glorifying sinful lifestyles and at the same time want to talk about how good God is are hypocrities. I consider these to be lukewarm "Christians" (Revelations 3:16) or carnal minded "Christians" (Romans 8:7).

I don't have a right to dictate who can and cannot sing anything (rap, opera, techno, raggae, whatever). But I do have the right to decide who I will support and who I will speak against. I am personally tired of Christians being so accepting about who represents Christ. We need to remember that those who are not for Christ are against Him. Let us not forget that Satan knows the scripture as well as anybody.

FeeFee I did appreciate your comments. I would be careful, however, of who I chose to align my thinking with.

I'm not understanding what you mean by this. :confused:

Anyway, I still stand by what I posted. Yes, you are always entitled to your opinion - I can't (nor would I want to) take that right away from you.

What's up y'all. I too watched "Let's Talk Church" on BET. And from that show, I gathered that most of the time we as Christians act as if we own the word of God. We don't! While many might feel that gospel music has gone too far, I don't. After all, all gospel music is is the word of God put to music. And another thing, Andrae Crouch (who has worked with Michael Jackson and Quincy Jones) said that he's heard many "gospel" songs by gospel artist, who were not gospel songs. I think that it's great that the youth are finding a way to express themselves through Christ. Sometimes we Christians can be so critical of one another. I think there's room for all types of praise and worship in the body of Christ. As long as they are not misrepresenting Christ and the Word, it's all good to me!

I'm loving this conversation! I have a question....I understand many of the things done in the name of the Lord but I can't figure out Stepping for the Lord. Can someone help me?

Also, has anyone heard or seen the video about you can't have my virginity? What is this about?

AND, I can understand the arguement about secular singers singing gospel from both sides. But my concern is and has always been, what example is being set when 99% of the artists music is about gloryifing sex, drugs, violence, etc but then they put out one song about the Lord? This is a problem I've always had especially with R. Kelly way before the mess he's in now. What is the example?

One last thing, I too can't stand Kirk!!! I loved Kirk and the Family but somewhere along the way, he lost it! As someone said before, there is a difference between singing for the Lord and being an entertainer. Where do we draw that line?

I PM'ed you about it. ;)

At our church, our pastor's son..who is now our youth minister...started practicing some "Steps" with our youth. They really enjoyed it. They made up CHANTS that related to bible verses, etc. Of course, my pastor's son is a Kappa, so he had them working it out with kanes. LOL. The youth liked it. They related to it. Pastor isn't exactly too accepting of this concept though and is surely not about to let them roll up on Sunday morning service to step in front of the congregation. However, this stepping concept may have its own time and place and I really am trying to come out of my very conservative shell and keep an open mind.

The whole thing about secular artists and gospel music...I agree with many of the comments made. I just can't listen to PDiddy glorifying sex & drinking...and then flip the station and hear him producing gospel tracks. What's next...Master P's gospel compilation with C-Murder (from prison of course), Silk the Shocker and Lil Romeo? Or perhaps the Cash Money Millionaires will get down with the gospel thang.

That's cool! If it keeps them interested because you never know when one will receive the Spirit.

I have never heard of not being able to clap in church.

Anyway I used to visited this one church on the Sundays that my church wasn't having service. This pastor would get up and say all kinds of inappropriate things. My mother went to church with me one time and that man in the pulpit saying the word "Coochie,"so after church my mother went to him and asked him what does that mean? She said that he broke it down to her and even used the P word.:eek: He said he has to speak to the people on a level they can understand. That's just to much to be saying in church.

I had to leave a church service one time when the speaker called the woman at the well a "ho". The things people say!

Beautiful Discussion
 

I have a quick question,
How much of the Gospel rap is actually for unsaved folks? How much Gospel Music is for unsaved folks? I used to work with a youth ministry back home that was not affiliated with any specific church. One of the things that we used extensively was music. We had all sorts of hip-hop from biggie and Tupac to T-bone and the "Gospel Gangstaz":confused: ( gospel rappers). The kids (who were "saved" and "unsaved") really were NOT feeling the gospel hip-hop:(. They just did not associate God with a "bumpin' beat". They didn't even listen to the gospel hip-hop we had. A more effective evangelical tool was they way we used to analyze the Tupac and Biggie songs in light of scripture, they then began to relate to God on their level. The gospel hip-hop really led to more confusion for the unsaved kids, though the saved kids related to it okay. Most Gospel music is for believers period. It seems that the music inspires and/or entertains believers and really isn't that effective of an evangelical tool. Whether its Thomas Dorsey, Mahalia Jackson, Mary Mary or Kirk, it has mainly been for believers, not unbelievers.
One danger I see is that people will begin to see gospel music just as another genre' of music like rap or pop. This happens because many gospel artists are not critical enough nor are the theologically sound in their songs. I have a friend of mine who is a Muslim who was actually sang in the Gospel Choir at his College!!!! He said he was in it because of the women:eek: . He said whenever they mentioned Jesus, he would simply not say His name or anything that had to do with a Trinity. The people in the choir knew he was a Muslim, but didn't care, I guess they thought singing would change him, it didn't, and most times songs will not convert an unbeliever. It would be things like this that would disturb me more than there being gospel rap. How can you call your gospel music an evangelical ministry with unsaved folk delivering the songs? Let's be more critical ya'll when it comes to "music ministry" or just call it what it is "Christian Entertainment for Christian folks".
Blackwatch!!!!!

@ Blackwatch..

I was at a confernece 2 summers ago with my Youth and we were talking about usiing music during service. We of course were the only Black church represented so I guess they thought we would think it was "cool" that during the Sunday that the Youth conducted the servcice they entered while DMX's prayer was playing. Now, my kids and I were like whoa! what is really going on? Their goal was to let the older people in thier curch know that all rap wasn't bad but I think they could have and should have chosen something else.

:eek: Whoa!

Now this got me to thinkin...so I wanted to see what DMX's lyrics are like. So, I went to a couple of lyric sites so that I could check out some of his "prayers". Here's the one off of his latest CD...

"[DMX] Let us pray Father God I am just learning how to pray, so bear with me First I thank you for the life of everyone that's here with me Then I thank you for the love you give me, why? I don't know; I don't deserve it, and it hurts inside Many a nights I cried, and called your name out loud But didn't call you when I was doin good, I was too proud And STILL you gave me love, I wasn't used to that Most of the people that gave me love, they ended up takin it back That's somethin new to me, so I'm askin you for time to adjust Let me make it there, I will be one you can trust What I stand for, I put my life on, I DO! I guess what I'm askin is - show me how to stand for you And I will RAP for you, SING for you, PREACH for you, TEACH for you REACH for you - I will love you like you love me, unconditionally And I will ALWAYS be prepared, for whatever the mission'll be GIVE THE NUTRITION TO ME, and I'll properly digest it And when I give it back, I'll show you word well invested And whenever I go, BEFORE I GO, let me give Thanks to you Lord, my birth, for every day that I've lived You gave me a love most of my life I didn't know was there IN THE NAME OF JESUS! I give you my life, cause you care."

OK...so that's pretty deep...but here's another lyric from one of his other tracks....(moderators will check me HARD if I actually put these lyrics in here, so here's the link...check it for yourself...)
http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop/edog...ression/6.html

I just don't understand how you can say "all of that" and then add in a prayer track. :( Actually, DMX does A LOT of this on his CD's. I truly believe he his lost in anger.

But, yet and still...to play DMX in CHURCH....Whoa.:eek:

I would have to agree with those who believe that gospel music is for believers. However, I still believe that it is for unbelievers too!

For instance, I know of a couple of folks where a seed was planted from a song. No, I'm not saying that they ran to a church after they heard a lyric, but the words to the song always stuck in their mind and eventually led them to church to learn more about Jesus.

I agree that all youth are not into it. However, there's someone out there buying it because it sells.

There are people who attend church just to find a mate. So, do we label the church as a Christian Dating Center? It was just a thought!

Well I don't totally agree with gospel being only for believers, for it was the urging of the Holy Spirit and gospel music that lead me to salvation. Personally I believe that if you are in a church that is not praising God (singing dancing clapping shouting etc.) than something is up and some form of traditional legalism is involved... the same thing Paul talks to the Jews about....


I don't think that there is anything wrong either with "quieter" services but I know when I think about Jesus it makes me shout with joy that he has saved me and brought me to salvation! I will get mad at you if you look me funny if I decide to praise... isn't that what we are here for (church, life) anyway, to praise and worship God all the day?

Oh yeah the butterflying in church is a no no! :eek:

Have a little more respect for the Lord than that!

I believe that there is a difference between taking the gospel to the world, which is what Jesus and his disciples did, and bringing the world into the gospel. People have become much too complacent and irreverent when it comes to God and Church. His word deserves aa certain level of respect or else it gets put on the same shelf with everything else. If you dress the same way to go to church that you do to go to a club or school, then your reverence level is equal. If you praise the Lord the same way that you dance in a club, then there is little moral or ethical difference in how you approach the two. If you sing or rap the same way about the Lord as you would your hoes, bitches, money, bling bling and Courvosier, what possible dichotomy are you creating between the sacred and the secular. What you get is what we have. Teenage, single mothers bringing babies up to be blessed, women dressed (barely) in mini-skirts,backless outfits, and other revealing garb exposing tattoos on backs, shoulders, thighs, and breasts, men and boys in baggy jeans and Timbs. You get a blurring of the word in which everything is more world centered than morally centered. If its ok to bump and grind and listen to misogynistic, profanity laced , Devil (world) worshipping music, and then get your praise on in the same manner.

Yes, worship should be culturally centered, but AAs have worshipped Jesus for 400 yrs in America without losing its soul to what's hip. The message should always be bigger than the messenger or its packaging. My view is that much of this hip-hop, rapping for the Lord, stepping and so, is for entertaining short attention span youth who aren't being taught the proper way to revere the Word of God. We have dummed-down our schools, our morality, and finally the last bastion of sanctity, our churches.

Just an observation
 

I was baptized and consider myself Presbyterian, which is a rather staid form of worship, and am considering becoming an Episcopalian. I like quiet, traditional churches.

This is a fascinating thread, because emotionalism in worship is foreign to me. I'm learning a lot, please keep posting.

Teenage, single mothers bringing babies up to be blessed?

Doggystyle, what's wrong with that. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of the lord. It's not the child's fault that he/she was born out of wedlock. We don't have a choice about the situations that bring us into this world, but no matter what we are still God's children. We all need his protection and his blessings. Even though I feel that gospel music hasn't gone too far on the whole, I do agree with you when you say that we must not secularize God.

I see nothing wrong with making gospel music enjoyable and letting youths have fun with church. I saw Kirk Franklin on television a little while back and he made an interesting point. He said that all too often religion focuses on what you can't do rather than what you can. If all we tell our youth is that once they become saved, they have to give up all of the things that they enjoy, what is their incentive to want to accept God into their lives. Saved or not, teenagers, and grown folks for that matter, want to be able to have a good time. I see nothing wrong with letting people know that they can have a good time while being a faithful and active member of the church. Being a Christian should be an enjoyable and rewarding experience. I know that it is for me ;) .

My pastor is a young man and he recognizes this point. Our church has a youth choir that performs lively, and upbeat songs. We sponsor a basketball camp and tournament and praise dancers. We don't have a step team, but I think that would be a great idea. Not everyone can sing, but we can all praise the Lord in our own ways. If you have to make your "joyful noise unto the Lord" by clapping your hands and stomping your feet, I say do your thang. I would much rather have our youth doing these things within the church than with community/secular groups.

As far as gospel rap, I don't really have a problem with that either. But, some of the songs that I heard were more secular songs with the word "God" thrown in every other verse. I heard one song, I think it was by BBJ, talking about "I'm the originator of this gospel rap thing." I thought that line was inappropiate and more suited for a regular hip-hop song.

As long as it's gospel, true gospel, I don't see anything wrong with it. You have to reach people the way that you can reach them. Not everyone will respond to Mahalia Jackson or the Mississippi Mass Choir. There have been a few times that I have been listening to a gospel song that touched my so deeply that I was brought to tears. One song actually helped me redevote myself to the Lord. There's nothing in the world wrong with that.

I said nothing about the children. My point is that it is too acceptable. What possible morality is the church teaching. It must be ineffective or either too many see nothing wrong with the situation. A church has a problem when every Sunday, there is a child be dedicated without a father present. My point is that when you let the world start dictating to the church, the Gospel loses. I don't care whether church is "exciting" or "entertaining". Your main purpose should be to be fed by the word and Christian fellowship. By watering down Church to entertain those with short attention spans or those who don't understand the difference between worship and a party, the Gospel gets minimized or lost. I have heard too many people say, "I had a good time at church/revival", but can't tell you in detail about the sermon or how applicable it is to one's daily life. To each his own though, thats why there are different churches for different tastes. Its just an opinion and not condemnation.

Good point Doggystyle
 

I agree with Doggystyle, The church has gotten away from trying to teach the world about the Gospel and does too much packaging and repackaging of the Gospel to fit the world's tastes. Steping and Dancing in Church maybe suitable for some without loosing the reverence for God's word and Jesus' work on the cross, I see these things as being subjective (to each his own). I have a problem with people redefining what is sin and what isn't sin. I am all for critical examination of our values and if there needs to be a change, than so be it. But let that change come from a better understanding of God's word and therefore God's will, not pressure from secular forces to become more "tolerant" and "politically correct". There must come a time in every believer's life when he or she is confronted with life's deeper questions (What is my purpose? What is Truth?, What is true Righteousness?, etc.) and we can't shout, sing, step, or dance our way around these questions, we have to answer them. The answer comes from critical self examination and critical scripture examination. I wonder how many of these "contemporary" churches are challenging us to grow, confronting us with Truth, and convicting us with love? It's okay to enjoy yourself and enjoy your salvation, but don't do it to the neglect of your spiritual growth. Many of these things that we call enjoyable or entertaining are not profitable for spiritual growth (I am not saying that they are wrong or sinful, I am just saying they shouldn't substitute for an authentic relationship with God through Jesus the Christ). Don't think that just because I sing in the choir, step on the "Holy Ghost step team", preach God's word, etc. that I am therefore saved, without first and daily "denying yourself and carrying the cross" as Jesus commands us.
Again, Great Discussion, I have been truely blessed.
Blackwatch!!!

Exactly. Let us remember that singing about the Lord is a form of MINISTRY!!! When you are singing, you are not only singing to believers, but to unbelievers as well. You are ministering to people's hearts, minds, souls, etc. There may be someone out there who are dealing with a lot of painful things in their lives, but hearing certain gospel songs enough times can possibly help to ease that pain (Donnie McClurkin's song, "Stand" is a perfect example). Also remember that a great number of these songs are actually Holy Scriptures that have been put in musical form, so people are actually hearing and having the Word of God fed to them as well.