What would our founders of all Greek Organizations think if they saw us
 

I don't know who wrote this I received it through email...I thought it would be something that we could all read and think about since we sometimes spend some much time putting each other down...when we know that pride in one's self and all they do for themselves and their organization is the most important thing....One more thing to think about remember that when God comes the only person who can judge you is him....so please everyone lets all do things that reflects the teachings and our beliefs in God
Peace and Love


What would our founders of all Greek Organizations think if they saw us
today?
Would they be proud or would they shake their head in dismay
Would they see the principles they believed in our daily walk
Or would they be disappointed in the trash we talk
Would they look from above with a smile on their face
Or would they be looking down in shame and disgrace

Would they see that sisterhood & brotherhood was still within us
Or would they see backstabbing, fighting, and all kinds of fuss
Would they see us willingly accepting all correction
Or would they see us always mounting an objection
Would they see us loving our Greek lettered sisters and brothers
Saying no matter what color they wear we must stand for each other

Would they see that service was still number one
Or would they see it was replaced by the need to have fun
Would they see you stepping with pride on Friday night
And then up early on Saturday to help the homeless plight
Or would Saturday morning meet you snuggled in bed
While the need is ignored and our community
unfed

Would they see that scholarship was still our priority
Or are we more concerned with pledging the
cool sorority or fraternity
Would they look at you pledge and be filled with memories
Or would they gasp in horror as you twist their history
Would they see us graduating at the top of our class
Or are we barely scraping by with just enough to pass

So I ask you, my generation, what will our legacy be
Will we be the ones to bring our organization to its knees
Will we sit idly by and watch our legacy ripped from our hearts
Or will we stand up and say that its time we do our parts
Will I see you on the front row at our next business meeting
Are you financial, active, and ready to have delegate seating

Imagine what could happen if collegiates took their rightful place
Would the founders then look down on us with a smile on their face
Imagine if we remember our founding principles and
the oath we said
And keep it ever close to us in our hearts and in our heads
I think that then the founders would look down,
their hearts about to bust
As they said to each other,
"Hey, don't they remind you of Us?"
So the next time you put on your letters, before you move or blink
With every action, look up, and wonder,

"What would the FOUNDERS think?"

A NUPE gave me this a while ago. We asked ourselves the same questions and could not come up with an answer. As you can see, deep interesting post don't get as much attention as the negative ones. Lucky those who take the time to come check it out. And since I am at it, I posted a "History or BGLO" about a week ago, very few replies. It tells me that many there is lots of work to do with fellow greeks to stay focused and with non greeks to teach them what we are about.
Thanks for posting this soror.
keep it up.

Thank you for posting this! It's beautiful - hope someone can identify the writer.

What if every organization gave this to every member? Just imagine...

Our sorority is fortunate enough to still have all founders among the living -- that certainly helps keep things in perspective! : )

A VERY APPROPRIATE AND TIMELESS WORK OF ART.

The author of the poem (What would the founders think?) is...

Juan Woods
Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc.
Xi Beta Sigma Chapter

Sgrho 22 thanks for the posting, it is obvious today that some members of our BGLO's organizations have no concern for what our founders would think. It amazes me that there is so much negative energy and division among greeks, lines, and chapters. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Thank you soror, that's what we all needed to hear

This is a great piece for us prospectives to read to. It gives us a great deal to think about as we attempt to become apart of our org of choice. Thanks SGRHO. I will print that out!

That was very enlightening, I am a member of two greek letter organizations and I feel that this can help me maintain my focus on my campus.

I like this post.

I think mine would be happy.

I definately liked this post. It is something very interesting to think about for all GLO's. It kind of helps put things into perspective, and help people realize some of the petty stuff isn't really what the experience should be all about.

I think the founders would have been proud to see the growth and work done by the brotherhood. I only have one concern though.

Before I proceed I'd like to say I'm not racist and I don't mean to cause trouble. I just want to point out something.

The founding fathers of my fraternity was all white. I am Filipino-American. Honestly I don't know how the founding fathers would react to having a non-white person in the brotherhood. The fraternity was started in 1919 meaning it was waaaaaaay back before the civil rights movement. If we had the ability to time travel back to the Alpha chapter how would they react if I wore the letters and did the secret handshake? I honestly wonder. It's one thing to write down ideals but what was in their minds?

The same goes for the founding fathers of our country. Did they think that later on as this country grew that our interpretation of All Men Created Equal would be different than their interpretation?

I wonder..............

Is this really what we tried to do?

I know from when I started my Local and affilliated, yes it has changed in many ways!

It has to because of the Risk Management insurance!



$$$$$$$$ is what it has become. Why, you ask, well it just does because Chapters whether if ours or not push the cost up!

What does that mean, more money from the local Chapter to pay for this indiscreartion, yours and mine!

Get with it, the highest expense is Risk Management Da ( Insurance) to cover stupidity!:mad:

Definately a great read. I printed it out and will be passing it around to all my brothers at our meeting tonight. We are all founders of the FIJI colony at our school. Give us something to think about for the future as well.

sgrho_22,
Thank you for such a beautiful post and very thought provoking, to say the least. I hope all on GC take the time to read and reflect upon your words.
thanks again,
violets

First they will be like this :eek:
Next like this :o
Then like this :(
Last like this :mad:

Thank you for posting this. I posted it on the Sigma Kappa Message Board.

For the most part, I think our founders would have pride in our organizations.

Panda, I thought about your post-
Just as intelligent people have come to realize that he terms "men" or "man" really refers to "mankind" NOT a specific gender, I also believe they would embrace our differences of religion, race, etc. They would be proud that we could show that same intelligence and understanding. Not knowing all standards each and every fraternity was founded on, I will add that little qualifier to my statement.

We have adopted so many needy philanthropies and for all the bad that happens by individuals, on the whole, we do some pretty great things. We all need reminders from time to time and this thread brings those points home.

I only wish that the thoughtfulness of issues, academics and Greek support that we see on GC were more evident on our campuses. I KNOW it HAS to be there-that it really does exist, but it gets lost in all the negative news.

On any "bad press" day, I might flip over and agree with Dionysus 100%. Then, you have to ask is it the GLO, the chapter
or the individual.

my founders weren't racist. They would be happy we have non-White and non-Episcapalion members. They set out to be a national fraternity and have members of lots of groups be brothers. Look at the names. Lorenzo Potter. Lorenzo is an Italian name. How many Italians were even in college in 1856? No racism in my org. So ha.

Wow that was awesome! Thank you so much :) We have a lot going on in my chapter right now and something like this I know would make a lot of people think for once about why they are here and what they want out of the organization.

Speaking that i'm a founding member
 

well i'm speaking on behalf of my other founding brothers. As a founding member of a African American fraternity i think as a fouding father i think we have done a good job as a fraternity, and we continuing to prosper in our organization. We are in the process of going "INC" soon so i feel that the hard work put into founding our fraternity has paid off. GOD Bless you all and remember.

" Advisors came and go, but greeks last forever"...

Very profound...thanks for posting that! That was what I was trying to say in "It is what you make it" Wow, that is beautiful. It makes you really think about how you look as a Greek, and how others may see you!

THAT WAS AWESOME!!!! THANKS A BUNCH :)

Optimist Prime, you should know that the Theta Chi constitution restricted membership only to caucasians until sometime in the 1950s. That's how you lost your Dartmouth chapter.

Theta Chi is a fine group with a lot to be proud of. But we should all be aware of the skeletons in our closets when it comes to this issue (No, not that skeleton - I'm speaking figuratively here! ;) ). Delta Chi, Sigma Chi, Phi Sigma Kappa and many other NIC groups restricted membership only to white males well into the 1950s and 1960s, and they lost good chapters over it too.

wptw

honestly, I think my founders would be a bit uneasy, but hopefully come to accept an African American sister...Who knows?

Uh . . .

Each organization has two sets of founders:

The real ones, who were normal human beings and the products of their eras.

In fact they would be representative of many of the people on this site.

There are good, knowledable, and tolerant people on this site and their are stupid, ignorant, and small minded people here also.

However, since they were Founders of something, a decent percentage of each Founding Set were probably go-getters or entrepeneural (sp?).

And . . .

The idealized versions that we have given some type of pseudo-sainthood.

Why yall feel the need to idealize or sanctify other human beins is beyond me.

But it shows a limitation in reasoning.

James:
Does admiring the forethought, intelligence and commitment of the founders of our GLOs really indicate limited reasoning abilities? I really don’t see it that way. Yes, our founders were real people with all the faults we as human beings struggle with, yet they managed to establish organizations that still have meaning today. I do not sanctify the founders of my organization, but I am struck by how they crafted a ritual that grows in meaning for me every year.
To say they were “products of their time,” yes, they were, but they created fraternities based on timeless values, and in this way they were part of creating something larger than themselves that has benefited scores of others. How many people can claim this?
In addition, sgrho22’s original post refers specifically to the Divine Nine, whose founders are inarguably admirable for their commitment to the pursuit of education, at a time when very few minority students were enrolled at universities and colleges, and the commitment to their communities, which all HBGLOs continue to strive to accomplish.
So, in short, I think my cognitive and reasoning abilities are just fine.
violets

Yes, many fraternities and sororities were very exclusive well into the '50's and 60's. One of my sorority's fouders was a Jewish girl, who would have been excluded from other sororities.

There is a difference between being of Anglo Saxon descent and being caucasian. Italians are considered caucasians, just not of Anglo descent.

Excellent Post,sgrho_22,

I have email the post to our Chapter President.

What would our founders of all Greek Organizations think if they
saw us?

My guess is that the founders of the fraternities would wonder why the
hell the badges they designed so carefully are being worn by women.

:eek:

Good call

True, but the founder's name in question was Lorenzo Potter. Potter is very definately an Anglo name, I would be willing to bet that Lorenzo Potter (who hailed from Wisconsin in the 1850's -- prior to the real wave of Italian immigrants) was of Anglo background.

Just my $0.02.

Actually, in the 1800's, when many fraternities were founded, it was quite common for a brother to give his fraternity badge to his fiance or wife. She wore it as a sign that she was under the protection of the fraternity. My great-grandfather did it in the 1880's, my father did it in the 1940's.

We allowed other races but not blacks in until I *think* til around '62 or so. Not something that's exactly 'in the closet'. To judge the past by today's standards is unfair. I think we've come a long way and for the better but that's why we change. Diversity has made us better.

Actully I didn't know that :( Potter is anglo but there were Italians here in this country before the wave of immigrants. :( I'm all bummed out now.

Agreed, ktsnake. It is somewhat unfair to judge our founders by today’s standards. But you do have to at least be aware there were different standards, so you don’t get too carried away with how wonderful your founders were. In 1860 you could be an educated, moral, upstanding young man and still consider a black man inferior and unworthy of membership. In 1960 it was obviously a different story.

But this is where we disagree: I think it is still very much “in the closet”. I don’t think the average GLO member has any idea that their constitution once allowed only whites, and that the civil rights movement created some very strong dissention in fraternity ranks which resulted in the loss of several original chapters. It continues to this day. There are still plenty of old-timers around, active alums, who fiercely resent having to admit blacks.

Yes, diversity has made us better. I wasn’t saying that fraternities and sororities today are racist organizations (or at least, no more so than a sampling of the general college-educated public). My point was simply that we should be aware this happened. Clearly, many of us are not.

And, as James tried to point out, we shouldn’t elevate our founders to such an unrealistic degree as to imagine them above the more “unsavory” attitudes of their time. I agree with James that this shows “limited reasoning”.

This statement is pure fantasy:
“My founders weren't racist. They would be happy we have non-White and non-Episcapalion members. They set out to be a national fraternity and have members of lots of groups be brothers.”

I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the founders of our groups. The dedication and the hours required to assemble a group of like-minded individuals, to develop a structure of ritual and symbolism and law that endures today, is incredible. But I have no illusions about who these people were. They were simply young, educated men and women who were as much driven by the social and political forces of their time as we are by ours a century or more later.

wptw

Don't be bummed. I think others have made a good point -- we tend to place our founders way up on pedastals, so that the they are almost bound to disappoint us at some point.

I'm all for honoring our founders -- I certainly honor mine -- but I think part of honoring them is remembering that they were human with faults and that their vision, incredible and inspiring as it was and is, was in some sense bound by the time in which they lived.

I'm sure our founders could not have foreseen the diversity we find in their fraternities or sorotities today, nor do I think they would have necessarily liked it could they have foreseen it. But I do like to think (and perhaps here I am failing to follow my own advice) that, given the ideals and values they set forth for us who follow, that -- could they see the world as it has progressed, and could they have the perspective of our time rather than the perspective of the time in which they lived -- they would approve of our diversity. Wishful thinking, maybe, but the values they set forth for us are all I have to go on, and it is those values that, I think, that encourage us to reject prejudice.

The way that we can best honor our founders is by fully living into the values of our fraternities and sororities, even if that takes us to places our founders didn't imagine.

Absolutely. The organizations (as all are) are simply products of their cultures and times. Sigma Nu's founders were former Confederate Soldiers studying Civil Engineering at the Virginia Military Institute. While I'm almost 100% sure they would not even have allowed ME in as a Roman Catholic -- or for that matter any non-WASP persuasion... I still think they got it right.

They gave us a wonderful creed to live by and some great values -- Love, Honor and Truth. These concepts don't exist in a vacuum... So I'd imagine that your concept of these would be different from mine -- mine different from my founders... etc..

This doesn't change the fact that what they did was stand up in the face of adversity (the institutionalized hazing at VMI) and stand for something they believed in.

To follow in the footsteps of such men is a true honor for me. The organization and the men running it have changed a great deal since 1869.