Catholics in Frats
 

I'm not entirely clear on this, but I believe Pope Pius X declared it was uncatholic to join secret societies. Or was he reffering specifically to the FreeMasons?
Certainly in this day and age no-one cares. I'm proud to be Catholic and proud to be GREEK!

I was just wondering if anyone else had some more insigt into this. All you religion or history majors.
And does anyone feel that religion may conflict in frat life? I don't.

The Catholic Church is very specific in this. They are ok with secret societies depending on what they stand for.

Also remember, secret societies and fraternities are slightly different. Secret Societies you dont know who is a member or what they are called...yada yada yada.

Anyway, I am also Catholic and greek and the literature I have looked at seems to support fraternities. Anyway there are several Jesuit and Catholic schools that have greek systems !!

Hope this helps...:)

If it really is the case, nobody told my classmates. :) I went to a Catholic high school, and at least 50% of the people in my graduating class went Greek in college.

I know, that There is Free Masoneray as am a 32 nd!

The Roman Catholic Church does not recognize it and tells its members not to join!

Cannot remember the Fraternal system that the Roman Catholics have and am sure someone on here can help me out! It is a off shoot as it were to be somethig similar for the Roman Catholic Church!

I am an Anglican Catholic and My Priest was a member of SN!

Do we all practice the dogma of each church? Not as much as in the old days!

I have for one Brothers of all faiths and herateages!

Does it bother me-NO they are my Brothers!

Just thought I would share and say that I attend at Catholic Jesuit College and we have a thriving Greek system...

Colleen Erin

I'm not Catholic, but my in-laws are, and I think that you're talking about the Knights of Columbus, which was founded in the 1880s by a Father McGivney (or something like that!).

The only reason I know any of this is because I was at my inlaws all day yesterday, and my FIL had his KofC magazine on the coffee table. ;)

LOL I just remember reading in some Greek Apparel catalog under famous Greeks that the pope was a greek......

Phi Kappa Theta is a Catholic college fraternity
 

At one time, they only took Catholic boys as members. I'm not sure wot they do now.

There is another thread that goes into depth concerning Masons and Catholics.... http://greekchat.com/gcforums/showth...&threadid=2624

As far as Catholics in Greek organizations, I am one. And I know of several others who are.

:-/ isn't pope John Paul the first non-Italian pope in a long time. He's from Poland. :) Don't they only have GLO's in the US an' Canada?

This is really rather confusing to me as the first non-Italian Pope in the past 400+ years is our current Pope, John Paul II. . . .

With regards to Catholics 'being allowed' to join a greek letter org - there have been many Catholic GLO, though many have become more 'secular.' I do believe the only fraternal society that Catholics are not allowed to join is the Freemasons. There are a number of Catholic Fraternal societies in existance (Order of Malta, Knights of Columbus, Daughters of Isabella, Catholic Daughters, etc).

Sarah
Viva il Papa! :)

I think you can very well still be a religious person and be involved in the Greek system. Many sororities have set up Bible studies. I know we have a girl who's Jewish, several girls who go to church regularly, my father's a Methodist minister, and two good Pi Kapp friends of mine (from different chapters) are going into the ministry. You make choices within the Greek community. Either you decide that you are going to be a religious person, or you don't, and being in a sorority or fraternity doesn't make a difference which you decide, if you are really strong in faith.

1) That's why i didn't believe it.

2) NOt true. In the Phillipines they have GLOs, but they're basically street gangs for those fortunate enough to go to college. My cousin is in Beta Kappa Epsilon at the University of Manila. I've been told of drive bys and murders that GLOs there have been a part of.

This thread is very insightful and cleared many things up for me. In summary as it pertains to this thread: Many GLO's were started by Freemasons, and the rituals are similar. The Church has however lifted its ban on laymen joining freemasons a while ago.

I am Catholic...
 

Also, probably 75% of the men in my chapter are also catholics. There are also a few jewish members, atheists, and what not. We all respect each other's religion and get along great.

Furthermore, many of us are also involved with the Knights of Columbus, which does not conflict with our fraternal commitments one bit.

Actually I would have to say that you are incorrect on both accounts. The Catholic Church has never lifted the ban on joining Freemasons. . . .

I would also have to say that many GLOs are not based on Freemasonry, but that too is very difficult to say as I have never (nor ever have any desire to) see/experience the Mason's rituals nor any other GLO's ritual. . . but based on the other thread with other member's saying they are not similar, etc I'm basing that statement on what had been said.

I'm assuming that the case of the matter is that if such thing was said about joining socities, they didnt include GLO's. Otherwise, Theta Phi Alpha would be in a stitch, as it was originally founded on the morals of Catholic womanhood, although it has expanded to all religions now (I for one, am not catholic.)

I am not well informed about the free masons as one should be, but from my understandance, they were ridgedly anti-catholic. They were in fact.. anti anything that didnt fall into the "White Anglo-Saxon Presbyterian" area of things. This might be the reason that the pope had such qualms with them.

And truth be told.. I think that now, more then any time in history, we have freedom of religon. Final message:
No matter your religion, Go Greek!! :)

The Masons are not anti-Catholic or pro-WASP. To be a Mason, you do have to believe in a God of some description, but you don't have to be of a particular faith. My husband, for instance, is a Mason and is Jewish. The prohibition against Catholics becoming Masons came from the Catholic Church, not the Masons.

And the prohibition (which included excommunication!!) was because the Masonic organization/beliefs goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church. This would make it anti-Catholic. . .

Actually, the RC Church lifted the ban back in the 60's when Pope Paul VI met with the Duke of Kent, Grand Master of England and they realized that there was no difficulty between Legit Masons and Catholics. It was a misunderstanding of huge proportions. Please see my postings in the Masonic thread. Later on the current Pope, John Paul II reiterated that there was no reason why a catholic lay person could not join the Masons. The only reservation is that in order to join the Masons Catholic Clergy must obtain approval of their Bishop, or their Father Superior if they are members of professed orders such as Jesuits or Franciscans. This has to do with lines of authority and appearance of active endorsement rather than cordial relations based on non hostile non opposing philosophies.
There are Masons who are a bit anti-Catholic and there are Catholics who are a bit anti-Mason just as there are Greeks who are anti-GDI and GDIs who are anti-Greek. This simply is not a perfect world. The key point is that after a couple of hundred years of mutual misunderstanding the Masons and the Catholics are on friendly terms and the Pope apparently thinks this is just fine with him.
As to Masonry being purely WASP, one should remember that the Order is rather a lot older than this country and one will find regular legit Masons of every faith, every race, and every philosophy so long as they all believe in a Supreme Being and live up to the obligation one takes at initiation. In some countries most Masons are Catholics
As an OBTW, I am a practising Catholic, when I was at School in England and later in my JYA in England I was an acholyte who regularly served Mass for Cardinal Basil Hume, and I am a Mason who has been Master of my Lodge and served as M.E.Z. of my Royal Arch Chapter.
If I can answer any specific questions please post or send me an email.

These are some sources for my information with regards to the Catholic Church's stance on Freemasonry:

http://www.dioceseoflafayette.org/wo...es-121000.html
http://www.cin.org/mateo/freemasons-...-position.html
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14071b.htm

The present legislation of the Church is contained in canon 1374:
Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; one who promotes or takes office in such an association is to be punished with an interdict.

In the previous Code (can 2335), Masonry is explicitly mentioned. As the declaration of 26 November 1983 explains, the omission of the name "Mason" in the present Church law is due to an "editorial criterion." Masonic associations are thus included under a more general heading which could include any other association conspiring against the Church (e.g. a specific communist party).

******** I don't see any question in the matter. . . .If there is other, more recent Canon Law (than 1983) that states otherwise I would LOVE to see it - seriously :)

Sarah

The Church never lifted its ban
 

The Church never lifted its ban on Masonic Membership. The Code was revised by striking the word Masonic to make it broader. That way other anti-Cathloic associations could be covered. Many people took the revision as a "go ahead" since it was no longer specifically mentioned.

"QUAESITUM EST
Declaration on Masonic Associations
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith

It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church's decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous code.

This sacred congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.

Therefore, the Church's negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion.

It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what has been decided above, and this in line with the declaration of this sacred congregation issued Feb. 17,1981. [1]

In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.

Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Nov. 26, 1983

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger Prefect

Father Jerome Hamer, O. P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium
Secretary

Notes

1. Cf. AAS 73 (1981) pp. 240-241"


The Codes referred to in the above are the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335) (previous) and the 1983 code (canon 1374) (revised). Cardinal Bernard Law restated these beliefs in a 1996 letter to the U.S. Bishops. http://showcase.netins.net/web/clear...mason.html#004

Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz issued the following statement that (published in Southern Nebraska Register, March 22, 1996):

"All Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln are forbidden to be members of the organizations and groups listed below. Membership in these organizations or groups is always perilous to the Catholic Faith and most often is totally incompatible with the Catholic Faith.

Planned Parenthood
Society of Saint Pius X (Lefebvre Group)
Hemlock Society
Call to Action
Call to Action Nebraska
Saint Michael the Archangel Chapel
Freemasons
Job's Daughters
DeMolay
Eastern Star
Rainbow Girls
Catholics for a Free Choice

Any Catholics in and of the Diocese of Lincoln who attain or retain membership in any of the above listed organizations or groups after April 15, 1996, are by that very fact (ipso facto latae sententiae) under interdict and are absolutely forbidden to receive Holy Communion. Contumacious persistence in such membership for one month following the interdict on part of any such Catholics will by that very fact (ipso facto latae sententiae) cause them to be excommunicated. Absolution from these ecclesial censures is "reserved to the Bishop."

This notice, when published in the Southern Nebraska Register, is a formal canonical warning.

By mandate of the Most Reverend Bishop of Lincoln.
Reverend Monsignor Timothy Thorburn, Chancellor March 19, 1996"

Re: The Church never lifted its ban
 

Thanks for linking to this very thorough treatment of the question. As Cardinal Law explains, Masonic membership is still banned, but no longer leads to automatic excommunication.

Turning back to the question that started this thread, it would seem that any prohibition on membership in a GLO would depend entirely on the specific GLO in question. Certainly, no GLO is likely to engage in the political agitation or anti-clericalism that has characterized Freemasonry in Europe and South America at times in history. And I think that few, if any, GLO's are likely to present the thorough and detailed philosophical system that Freemasonry entails.

That said, it is certainly true that many GLO's, fraternities primarily, were influenced by Freemasonry and turned to masonic ritual for inspiration in crafting their own rituals, as can be seen at this site. Absent any specific prohibition on a specific GLO, then one must use one's best judgment as to the compatibility between the teachings/principles of the GLO in question and the teachings of the Church. I think investigation will show that this was one of the reasons for the founding of specifically "Catholic GLO's" -- an prospective member would be sure that there would be no such incompatibility.

My 2 cents.

That's definitely an unfair generalization, one that we as North American GLO members should definitely avoid, seeing as how our own system has its own negative stereotypes.

Gee, I guess when people I know in the Phillipines who are in fraternaties are the ones telling me this. I didn't just wake up and make that "generalization". I have been told this by MANY who know. My uncle who was also in a fraternity in the Phillipines told me not to wear my letters when I take a trip there because I might get myself killed.......That enough for you?

Beryana, AOPiRose, and MysticCat81,
Thank you for the thought provoking comments and links to pursuasive authorities. I need to refelect on all of this as I have been operating on info provided by my Archbishop. I do not want to run counter to Cardinal Ratsinger but I wonder if this issue might have canonical jurisdiction implications. When the Jesuits were surpressed as an Order in the 1700s the bull of supression was not applicable in some Patriarchal jurisdictions which allowed the Order to survive and flourish until general restoration some decades later. Because of the apparent confusion in applying a uniform policy where Metropolitans and Ordinaries have widely differing policies I wonder if there are more layers yet to peel back. I was concerned by certain inaccuracies in Cardinal Law's link which made me think that I need to do more research and seek guidance from a senior prelate. In any case, I appreciate the food for thought.

peace

I go to a Jesuit school whose president is not only a Jesuit but a Greek. He will be replaced next year as president with another Jesuit and Greek.

Besides that...
 

There is an entire women's npc sorority started by a Catholic priest, correct?

Re: Besides that...
 

Yes, Theta Phi Alpha, founded for Catholic girls in Michigan who were not allowed into other fraternities for women.

It's part of NPC and nonsectarian now, but they require that new intiates "respect the religious history" of the organization.

Adrienne (PNAM 2003 and Trivial Pursuit Master<g>)

Re: Re: Besides that...
 

I am so glad that I am not the only sorority information dork! I am just killing time until Trivial Pursuit comes out with a greek edition. I would so kick some butt!

Annie :)

I am fascinated that the Diocese of Lincoln bans membership in Planned Parenthood...I wonder if Milwaukee does too, because somebody shouldn't have confirmed me then! :rolleyes:

On an interesting notes, I know some Jesuit universities with Greek systems require that PNMS be given a bid. I know Creighton is one of these, and I find this really interesting.

I had heard that about Creighton but I wasn't sure if it was true or not.....dayum.

Idont think that is entirely true about Creighton. When I was there that wasnt the rule.

It maybe a guideline the school wants but just a guideline..

Not only am I a baptized (but not a practicing) Roman Catholic, but I am a Mason as well. I find nothing in Masonic ritual that contradicts with my own personal and religious beliefs.

In regards to Cardinal Law's clarification, there are some errors of fact in the document and below are some updates:

• There are no higher degrees beyond that of a Master Mason. The Scottish Rite (which confers the 4th through the 32nd Degrees) expands upon the basic teachings learned in the first three degrees of Freemasonry, which is why it's sometimes called the 'University of Freemasonry'. (There is also the honorary title of Knight Commander of the Court of Honor (32nd KCCH) and the honorary 33rd degree, which even fewer get.) The only place you'll find the first three degrees performed in the Scottish Rite style is in a small number of lodges in New Orleans -- the first three degrees are actually based on York Rite ritual.
• The York Rite is composed of three distinct bodies: the Chapter of Royal Arch Masons (conferring four degrees: Mark Master, Past Master, Most Excellent Master, Royal Arch Mason), the Council of Royal and Select Masters (conferring two degrees: Royal Master and Select Master; a third optional degree, Super Excellent Master is conferred in a few jurisdictions) and the Knights Templar (composed of three degrees they call Orders: Order of the Red Cross, Order of Malta and the Order of the Temple). Membership in the Knights Templar is generally restricted to men of the Christian faith, because of the distinctively Christian aims of the Order, though some jurisdictions may loosely interpret this requirement and allow non-Christians to join the Order.
• Until the year 2000, one must have either attained the 32nd degree in the Scottish Rite or the Order of the Temple to become eligible for membership in the Shrine. Currently, one must have been raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason before becoming eligible to join the Shrine. Many Shrine centers have made public their initiation ritual (with the exception of the portion containing the methods of recognition).

So I can't receive communion? No big deal... I rarely attend Catholic church services except for baptisms, weddings and funerals. :)

Yea I attend a Catholic University and we also have a wonderful Greek system. YAY!!! :)

There was another post on here about Creighton and the guaranteed bids. Of course guaranteeing a bid and guaranteeing a bid from the sorority you want are 2 entirely different things - I would assume they practice the former, not the latter. I can't imagine that a national group would put up with having to give a bid to everyone who wants one.

Dining Clubs at Oxford and Cambridge, and to a lesser extent at the Scottish Universities, the Univ of London, Bristol, Durham, and one or two others are rather similar to our concept of GLOs. They also have some aspects of Yale (and other) Secret Societies. They generally select new members by a black-ball system, membership is by invitation, they have a ritual aspect both at initiation and during meetings, and are much more than just eating and drinking groups. Most are coed but some are single sex and some have their own club rooms while others use college based facilities. Some are fairly open and some are very private in every respect. My cousin who did his undergrad degree at Royal Holloway College of the Univ of London was a member of 'Barbarians' which was very similar to what we know but very private in that not everyone there knew that they existed and those that did thought they were a rugby club who were just very close knit. His brother was at Oxford and was a member of 'Apollo' which was very like what we know. It had the appearance of a Masonic Lodge, lots of ritual work, very strong on brotherhood, and, I suspect, was a recruiting ground for MI-5 and MI-6. It seemed to be strongest at Oriel College and Christ Church College with members from others Oxford colleges as well.
The 'Popes' is a an interesting group which seems to draw on mostly Catholic families who are wired into the old guard establishment. Their sponsor and "God-Father" is the Duke of Norfolk and they are loaded with members who hold titles. They are none the less very sharp, very smart, very impressive, and all around high achievers. I believe there are about a dozen such groups at Oxford, about the same at Cambridge, and three or four at each of the other places.
During my JYA I was a guest of several of these groups and was very impressed by their approach which was very familiar yet distinctly British. Even the open aspects of their meetings were heavy into ritual (they have a toasting ceremony which varies from group to group but each was really impressive, and I can only guess at their private ceremonies but I understand they are very old and very moving).
As a side note, they all have Latin and Greek mottoes, slogans, and signs and tokens specific to that group. What I found interesting was that they all could read at sight what everything meant, so the esoteric significance was really close held by the members.
A Brit Army Officer I met when I was on active duty the first time right after graduation told me that there were at least two American GLOs that had active chapters in the Scottish Universities many years ago. Apparently they were organized in the 1880s and were active until the mid 1920s at least and might have survived longer. He told me that at least one had transformed itself into a Dining Club and was still around but was no longer officially affiliated with its parent fraternity.
I understand that there are a couple of groups at the University of London and at least one at one of the Northern English universities that have organized to petition for colony status with American Fraternities.
Anybody else have any info they could share on British groups that are similar to our Greek system?

Regarding the question of people getting bids regardless at Jesuit schools, that is not true. At my school about 150 girls came out and only 110 were invited back to at least 1 pref night (with 3 sororities on campus).

I didn't say all Jesuit schools did this, I know they don't because I know Marquette, as one example, doesn't. I said that some, such as Creighton, do.

Here's a post about Creighton's situation from one of your sisters:

http://forums.greekchat.com/gcforums...ight=creighton