Another Strange Situation
 

I tried to search for this topic but didnt find anything so if there is I apologize!!

Anyway, we have recently had a member of an NPC org on our campus get mad at her org and what she called "de-sister" herself and left the chapter. That same year she applied at and NPHC womens org for membership. Since she was on the same campus and she admitted she had been initiated somewhere else the group did not consider her for membership.

But me and a member of that NPHC womens org were wondering...Is there some written rule that forbids joining an NPHC org if you are initiated into a NPC org? And if so is there some kind of database that allows you to find out if they were initiated in another conference?

If there isnt a rule in place how do you go about making one with NPC?

Interesting question and I'm not sure of it. This might have been discussed already but what about going NPC to local or local to NPC?

The only stipulation that I know of concerning pledging is with NPC organizations. Once you are an initiated member of one, you cannot be initiated by another, whether you resign or not. As far as switching from NPC to NPHC, I have no clue.

This is an exercise in hair splitting. I can't speak for any other
group besides Sigma Nu, but I swore during ritual never to join
another fraternity. Would you support someone in violating the oath
they took in another org's initiation ritual?

This is part of the reason we sometimes make a big deal about saying
that non-social GLO's are *not* fraternities. I can join an honor
society or a service organization, or a professional-interest group
that happens to have Greek Letters and an initiation ceremony. But to
say I can quit Sigma Nu and join Omega Psi Phi is NOT THE SAME
THING!!!

This is not a subtle point about which conference the GLO is in. It
is common sense.

BUT... There's still one question I don't know about... If I quit my
NIC fraternity and get a sex change, can I join an NPC sorority?

:eek:

Oh gosh, I just read that thread and it just went around in circles! :mad: And, I think this thread is a tad different from that one.

Anyways, I was just thinking of the same thing this afternoon!!! After joining an NPC sorority two years ago and quiting a year and half ago, I want to join another social sorority and I know it can't be an NPC. However, I am interested in joining a local, MC, or a NPHC organization instead. It's two sororities in particular that interest me.

I think TECHNICALLY I can do it. But, if they find out about my past NPC, MC, and even service GLO affliation that may be frowned upon. And, I may go to hell because I sworn not to join another sorority. :D

I am a member of an NPC organization. I was approached my another member of NPHC to apply for their pledging process. Then I was told once you initate into one sorority you cannot initate somewhere else. Then I told the member of NPHC that I couldn't and wouldn't initate into another sorority. She then told me since I was under the NPC I could become a member in the NPHC. I just feel that is totally disrespectful if I did do something like that.

This is an area of interest to me...
I am ethnic and suppose I choose to become a member of XXX org. because I really like the org. and what it stands for, service programs, etc. I have developed strong friendships and sisterhood within my chapter. There are no GLO's in my area that are geared toward my ethnicity, but the GLO I chose to join is a community service org. and does alot to better the community, so I relate really well to my sisters although most are of a different race. Well, down the road a GLO is formed of my ethnicity, let's say I am hispanic (hypothetical), and there are several issues facing hispanics that only hispanics can actively address (you feel what I'm saying?). If I were approached to join this org. because of what I could bring to the table and it didn't compromise my membership/loyalty to my current GLO I would feel it would be my responsibility to participate in supporting the org and bringing action to issues affecting my people, especially because that is what drew me to be in a GLO to begin with. I want to work towards betterment for all mankind, but you feel me when I say you have to be the one looking out to make things better for your people, no question. So what is your take on this spin of it? I know I would love to see my ethnic sisters form a strong sisterhood/org. such as the those of the NHPC because it would really make a difference in my community. That's just from my point of view. It's not a social thing but a responsibility to your people thing. What do you think?

Honestly, I feel the only "people" are all people, not just that of one ethnicity. I feel the only way bridge the gap of misunderstanding is to not segregate ourselves into groups of only one ethnicity. I am in no way bashing those groups. I feel they play a vital role in developing different social backgrounds...I just wouldnt use that as a reason to join a group. Just my opinion of course.

Also, two people of two of the different NPHC groups have PM'd me and they tell me you CANNOT be an initiated member of NPC and NPHC at the same time. Which to me is a good thing!

But another question still stands, How would they know?? If this woman had transfered to another campus would they have caught this? What is in place to ensure that this form of "double-dipping" does not occur?

Not to sound ignorant or anything... but what in NPHC? if you don't mind. (did i miss that in my pledge book?)
Lil E

Little E,

Not to sound belittleing but I am SHOCKED this isnt included in your fraternity education!

You are a member of the National Panhellenic Conferency, NPC, which has 26 groups under its bylaws.

Then there is the National Pan-Hellenic Conference, NPHC, which is nine groups. 4 sororities and 5 fraternities (I think!!! I could be wrong on the number of sororities and fraternities). These NPHC groups are predominatly black, or at least I havent meet one with a white member(in this I also could be wrong??) They are public service organizations but are thought of in the same way our NPC social groups.

I hope this helps your understanding of other types of greeks. I encourage you to visit their websites if you can!

Thanks!
It does sound familiar now, i think I need to drag that book out again:)
Our campus...Three IFC fraternities i don't think they know what IFC even is. and NPC, wow explain why we can't drink w/letters on. Thanks though! You'd be amazed at our greek system...lol :)
Tau Love
Lil E

Theta Sig,
I appreciate what you are trying to say, but from the perspective of organizations that are not only socially based but focus on uplifting and bettering the community, I feel that GLO's are beneficial, by that I mean that from my perspective being a minority there are issues that are unique to my particular ethnicity and culture, and my community, that a "mainstream" mindset would not know about or think to address, having positive role models in the community banded together and taking action to help make a difference is what I am talking about. It is from my heart, and seeing the suffering of my people and feeling the challenges and struggles that are faced everyday by our community that I feel the opportunity to serve in such a capacity is a responsibility and a given. I'm not really addressing those of you that are greek for the mainly social aspect of being in an org, not that there is anything wrong with that (in my seinfeld voice), but I am talking about being in the position to elicit positive change within your community (ethnic or otherwise, love to all people) and doing so. I'm hoping this is coming across as I intend it, in only the very best way. (by the way, most ethnic (Asian, Hispanic, etc.) GLO's are local's or not affiliated with an umbrella group or larger agency for lack of a better term, to my knowledge, and are not part of the NPC or NPHC.)

No, the issue is, can you join an NON-NPC (particularly NPHC) GLO AFTER quitting an NPC GLO or vice versa?

I've known a few people who've done this. The issue with your "de-sister" is more of a subjective one. For some dumb reason, a lot of social sorority/fraternity members do not want someone who was a part of another social GLO, despite that if it is legal (i.e. depledging and joining another GLO w/in the conference or joining another GLO in a different conference or a local).

And, the issue of disrespect/disloyalty works both ways. Typically, a member does not leave for no reason. IMO if you had a less than a desirable experience w/ one GLO, I see no hurt in someone getting a second chance in another GLO in that conference (that will never happen :rolleyes: ) or in another conference.

This issue is equivalent of someone not wanting to marry another person because s/he was previously married.

This issue is equivalent of someone not wanting to marry another
person because s/he was previously married.

Yes, and it also illustrates why many people with conservative views
see the legitimization of divorce as having the effect of weakening
the institution of marriage.

I agree with your basic point (there needs to be some sort of "escape
clause" for really bad situations). But I think it's wrong to lay all
the blame on Nationals having rules for "some dumb reason".

Nationals exist to uphold the dignity of the rituals that were created
by the organization's founders. If you reduce everything to "It was
just an oath, it doesn't really mean anything" where does that leave
you?

Okay, I understand the part about nationals making rule that you can't join another GLO in the same conference once initiated. That would ruin the secrecy that bonds GLO members together.

My issue is w/ the people who want to join another GLO within the same conference, who DIDN'T initiate into their previous GLO, and those who want to join another a GLO in another conference. Both are "legal".

Also, I'm not a fan of hard-core oaths.

If you did NOT initiate then you can go to another GLO, there is nothing wrong with that. But if you have been initiated in one org I dont think you should be allowed to join another group.(excluding honors groups of course)

I just dont think it is right....

I think it should be OK to initiate into another group if you transfer to a DIFFERENT school. I know several people who were XYZ at a school and had to transfer and at the new school there was no XYZ. And then they met people in ABC who were really nice etc. As long as you don't go blabbing ritual stuff, I don't really see the big deal. In all seriousness, girls have it different than the guys. We have to go through formal rush where everyoe is really nice nice to your face and then you get in and you begin to see the real picture. Also, struggling chapters have the, in my opinion, bad habit of having neighboring chapters or alumni or seniors do all the rushing and then when you get in, all the people you loved and met during rush are not even around. We are different people at 22-23-24 then we are at 18. Things and people change. What if a chapter lost their charter and a member went to a new school really far away where there was no chapter to affiliate with? What is the real harm in them wanting to be involved in a sorority? Also, one of my old sorority sisters had to go to a school out of state really far away from us and they did have our Sorority there, but they treated her like dirt and ultimatey elected to not allow her to affiliate because they don't like to have affiliates. She was the sweetest person. I can't imagine someone not liking her. Anyway. I love my sorority, but I can see why some one would want to de-sister and join another. SOmetimes things happen that leave a bitter taste in your mouth and you want to start fresh.

Maybe there are bad situations, but a promise is a promise and an oath is an oath. If I make the mistake of swearing to something I change my mind about later, too bad for me. I don't want to have a sister who thinks so little of her oath she will break it. It's not like we keep it a secret that you join for life. And if you're being rushed by girls from another chapter, that should be evident up front, and it's hardly fair to be disappointed because the sisters in your chapter aren't like that. There is, after all, a reason for the pledge period, and a reason a girl who depledges can still join elsewhere.

If your new chapter won't accept you, you can go alum or disaffiliate entirely. A chapter that won't accept a sister from elsewhere isn't living up to its ideals, and if I knew my org was doing that, I would want to kick those girls' rears.

Certainly, there will be girls now and then who transfer and don't have their chapter on their new campus. But they knew what they were doing when they transferred. Maybe giving up active membership was a hard thing to do although other factors outweighed it, but she still had a choice.

The NPC and NPHC (and I think the NIC) all have unanimous agreements stating that no member group will pledge anyone who is a member of another group within that conference. Technically, that leaves open the loophole that I could quit AXD and try to join an NPHC sorority. But I don't know of many NPHC members who would approve of that.

Also, when I initiated, I promised never to join any other "general" Greek letter fraternity. This is an AXD promise, but I bet most other orgs have similar ones. We can argue all day about whether NPHC orgs are "social" or "service," but they definitely are "general" in the same way NPC groups are - they are not honorary or academic or exclusively service (in the way APhiO is).

Sororities are so serious about this that when the AES sororities merged into the NPC, girls who had perfectly legally joined one of each HAD to give up one of the memberships.

Now, locals are a little different story. This is partially because if you make the no-double-joining rule applied to them, no local sorority could ever join an existing national organization.

It has nothing to do with worrying about revealing rituals or sharing secrets. (I'd be more worried about a drunk sister telling her boyfriend.) It has to do with joining a sorority for life, for the right reasons, and for realizing the depth of your commitment. A lot of people join to make friends, but there is more to sorority life than that. If your choice of sorority didn't work out, well, if friendship is what you are looking for, presumably most Greek women have what it takes to make new ones.

TkeSweetheart-- I think that you make some strong points.
As a transfer student myself it is weird not to have my sorority at my campus, but at the same time I have found so much more to get involved in. Of course it would be cool to to have gone through rush again. I am now an associate member of Alpha Phi Sigma(criminal justice honor society-- I don't have the gpa to be full fledged-- but I can still wear the letters etc). I am really excited about this, plus I can't imagine being in a sorority again bc of all the drama I went through.
My question is has a sorority/fraternity ever lost gone under? Example lets say that all of the ASA chapters were taken off every campus-- and they could never come back. Now if this were to happen-- would it be fair to let someone join another chapter?

sometimes fraternties merge

I had several "drunk" roomies divulge MUCH to me over the course of the last 5 years and, my ritual included, NONE of us pledged to not join something else. We pledged to keep all secrets and sorority business to our selves etc. etc. But joining another group was never expressly forbidden. There was one poor girl in my sisters dorm who had transfered from another school because she changed her major and her chapter at that school had gone under and those girls were told they could rejoin a different org.(THey were national NPC) and the girl did at my sisters school. THen one of her old sorority sisters found out and got mad and "reported" her to both headquarters. She was de-membered from BOTH and she didn't even know what she was doing was wrong. We all felt so bad for her. She was a really active member and was really nice and had great grades and everything. Neither sorority will let her be a member and now she can't be anything. I think that is so sad. I only know her because she's my sis's friend but that's what my sis says about her. Anyway, maybe there could be an extenuating circumstance clause or something. I agree this shouldn't be a common thing or be rampant on a campus, but there should be some measure for people in this situation. Seriously, I am the only one of my highschool buddies that has had a great greek experience. All of my other friends (about 11 or so of us) de-sistered, de-pledged, never talks to anyone any more, had nothing nice to say about her sorority, thinks sororites are dumb, all her sorority sis slept with her b-friend, blah blah blah and they all had GREAT pledge quarters because everyone was kissing thier butts.Anyway, I know I am playing devils advocate here! I'm always rooting for the under dog......:)

I would never join another fraternity. I think its IFC that we can't.

Does anyone know how long the no-double-membership rule has been around? The reason I'm asking is because once I was upset and frustrated with my chapter, and my dad said, "Well, why don't you just quit and pick another one?" which made me think that maybe that was legal back when he was in school. But maybe he was just mixed up...:p

Um...
I think a DU started DChi. So who knows. In my fraternity, its always been understood that you don't ever join a different fraternity. LIke one dude back in day transfered and was no theta chi there. He was asked to join Delta Mu (I think was the name) but could not. So Delta Mu became Gamma chapter. I think that pretty much sums it up :)

I know several men who were at schools (Ah-hm Alabama) and when they went to school in another state joined another frat and the guys didn't care. My old boyfriend told me that guys are not "petty" (his word not mine) liek girls and that if there is a rule about no double joining-no one really enforces it. In my old b-friends frat, even if you were a transfer and you already were in the fraternity, theymad eyou pledge again. They didn't have affiliates, only brothers. If you were from another school, even if you had been president of your chapter, you had to re-pledge and they didn't have to let you in. I thought that was abit harsh. But there national/HQ nacks them up on it everytime... Probably everyone is different. I know different schools are just different. At my school all the greeks hang together.the Sigma Chis go to the ATO's parties etc. But at my sisters school, you'd NEVER go to a bar/party/mixer with another group. It just wasn't done.That was like being a spy or a traitor or something. I thought that was dumb. Anyway.....