Need an Opinion...
 

As many of you know, I am not greek. I rushed once my sophomore year, and dropped out. I went through formal again this year and was cut by all 10 houses after round 2. I also went to an informal party last spring for a sorority that a very good friend of mine had just become active in. The chapter had not made quota, and they were looking for new members. I went to one informal party, and things went great. I got along great with all the members. I told my friend how badly I wanted to be a part of her org and she made it sound like I was in, no problem. The next week she called me before the second round of informal parties, and told me that they had to cut me "not because we didn't like you, but because you rushed before."

Because I rushed before? That didn't make sense to me. I called Greek Affairs and asked them. I was told by them that the chapters have a "cut once, cut always" rule, and because they cut me during formal that year, I couldn't be pledged. (I know this rule is controversial on this board, but this is what I was told). I also asked some greek friends of mine, and they concurred that once a house has cut someone, they cannot ever become a member. I experienced this when I went through formal this year - every house that had cut me the year before cut me after the first day.

So, herein lies my problem. I got in last night and there was a message on my answering machine: "Hi, this is so-and-so from XYZ sorority. I just wanted to let you know about some activities we have going on in the next few weeks..." It is from the same sorority that cut me during informal last year. I don't know positively what they're calling about - but I know that this is their exact time of year to have their informal parties. What do I do? I don't want to go and get disappointed for a fourth time in trying to be in a sorority. I don't want to miss an opportunity either. Any ideas?

is this the same group your friend is in? I sorta got confused through the email http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif If it is, I'd call her up and ask her why you got the call, and if there is a chance for you. No sense in dealing with all the disappointment again, but also, no sense in finding out more http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Best of luck!

Dear juniorgrrl:

Here's what I think--if I were you, I do one (or several) of the following:

1) Call the sorority's national HQ, and tell them your situation. Ask if they have a "cut once, cut always" rule, and if that rule is different for Formal and Informal Rush. (HQ may or may not give you the answers you need, but it is worth a try, if you ask me.)

2) Call your local Panhell office, and ask them the same questions.

3) Do you know anyone in the house that called to inform you of activities? If so, call that girl, and ask her the same questions as in #1. If you don't know anyone in that house, call the house phone and ask to speak to the Rush chair. Explain your history (avoid sounding like "poor me") and then ask her the questions I wrote out in #1.

This should at least give you some information to go on, you know?

Also, if you find out from any source that there is a hard-and-fast cut-once, cut-always rule for that sorority, then you need to report what they have done (asking you to Rush activities) as a Rush infraction to your local Panhellic Authority. Chapters are NOT allowed to ask girls to their houses, knowing that under their standing rules they must cut them. That is called Dirty Rushing, and Panhell will have to take action to stop the chapter from such a rush infraction.

I wish you all the best of luck, and I am so sorry for all of the crap that you have been put through. If there is anything I can do to further help you, don't hesitate to contact me.

(And if the chapter that called you happens to be KKG, let me know, and I will get you some answers about what is going on.)

Please keep us posted!

Panhellenically,
imsohappythatiama

------------------
Oh, Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
I'm so happy that I am a
Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
Nobody knows . . . how
happy I am!

Okay, let me clarify a few things: My friend is in XYZ. She pledged Fall 99. Spring 00 XYZ had an informal rush, which is *extremely extremely* rare at LSU. I just happened to run into her one day and I told her that I regretted dropping out of rush and she said "well, next week, we're having a party for informal, would you like to come?" And I accepted the invitation. After that first party, I was cut. I don't think my friend knew of the rule, honestly, since she had just become active and had never been through rush before.

I'm honestly a little bit confused as to how/why XYZ contacted me at all. I just moved and have a new phone number, so if greek affairs had me as a "no bid" from formal, my info would be different.

Either way, I'm pretty wary of this whole thing. I'm a second semester junior. I've been cut from this house twice during formal rush and once during informal. I'm not positive that the phone call was about rush, either, but it sure sounded like it.

I would love to be a part of this org. The girls are great, and I love the chapter's philanthropy. I also know that I would be an asset to them. I have a 3.76 cumulative GPA, I'm involved in a service org, 2 professional orgs and an honor society. I just fear getting let down again.

[This message has been edited by juniorgrrl (edited January 31, 2001).]

Not to be nosey but did you always have that awesome gpa? I say that because at our chapter, we cut a girl twice due to her poor gpa but her junior year- she had over a 3.0 and we gave her a bid. The only thing is "Jane" knew our grade policy and knew that was the reason she was getting cut. I wish your friend could give you more of an insight to XYZ's reasoning behind all this. If you had that gpa all along plus all those other great qualities ... you seem like a great asset to any organization http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

juniorgrrl,
first of all, i am really sorry that you had to go through such a hard time at rush before. I would say though that if they contacted you for informal rush, you should at least give it a try since it sounds like you are interested in joining a sorority. you don't really have anything to lose and you don't want to look back and say "if only i had tried once more"...so give it a try. i know at lot of girls at my school that had bad experiences and rushed again, and now are so happy that they did. good luck!!

it sounds like when your friend asked you to come to the informal rush event, she was speaking for herself and not on behalf of the whole sorority. her asking you if you wanted to come was a personal expression of her liking you, not an expression that the whole group thought you'd make a good member. so i guess don't feel betrayed by the house because you got cut in informal rush. one person's opinion of a rushee doesn't go all that far, at least in many voting systems. even if that one friend loves you to death, the rest of the group might not feel as intensely. i don't think it sounds like that house was dirty rushing you or leading you on... they probably didn't even know you had been invited to the event until you showed up. it sounds like a decision that your friend made on her own to invite you... not like the rush committee sat around thinking about who they most wanted to get, and your name came up.

[This message has been edited by twinstars (edited January 31, 2001).]

juniorgrrl,

You poor thing - you have really been put through the wringer as far as all this is concerned! Here's a hug for you . [o]

I agree with imsohappythatiama's recommendations, with one addition: go to the Greek Affairs office and ask for a WRITTEN COPY of LSU Panhellenic's rush rules. Unless it is there in black and white that "cut once cut again" is true, it is a tradition, NOT a rule, and shouldn't be used against you or any other girl going through rush.

Did XYZ get quota this fall and/or are they at total? If they are short of membership - especially at such a competitive school - their nationals might have told them "forget this cut once cut again crap."

Aside from all this - as Tom Cruise said in Risky Business, "sometimes you just gotta say, what the @$%*!" I find that the things I regret are the things I DIDN'T do, not the things I did. So go for it, and then you won't have to look back years later thinking "I wish I had!"

To answer a few questions:

My GPA hasn't always been a 3.76. When I rushed the first time, it was a 3.52. When I rushed this past fall, it was a 3.69. I take school *extremely* seriously and my grades are of utmost importance to me.

My friend said she thought they got quota during rush, but I recall seeing the list of new members in the newspaper and it was only about 40-45, when quota is usually about 70.

I called greek affairs and they said that if the chapter called me, they were probably disregarding the rule, even though it is something that happens usually in formal rush.

I'm just scared to go and make an ass of myself *again*. Its kind of embarassing to always be talking about doing this sorority rush thing or that thing, and never ever get in. This would be my fourth attempt. Honestly, when I got cut this year during formal, I said "well, it means the decision I made last year was right for me. I wasn't meant to be a ZZZ because they cut me this year." I had really come to terms with it, other than feeling a bit left out of things on campus at times. I just don't know what to do...

I say go for it. And if things don't work out maybe you can start your own chapter. Was the person who called you your friend, or one of the other girls?

------------------
Once in every lifetime, you'll know what life is. Oh I need you, you need me, oh my darling, don't you see? The Young Ones. Darling we're The Young Ones. The Young Ones. Shouldn't be afraid! To live. To love. There's a song to be sung. 'Cause we may not be The Young Ones for very long!!!

I do feel bad about the situation, but I do think everything happens for a reason. SO go and try, you never know! Being a member of a sorority isn't just about the college years, you will have an awesome time as an alumna too!
I think many chapters have different by-laws about membership invitations. If a chapter has voted you down they may feel obligated to do it again in order to respect the sisters who came before them. My Panhellenic has no authority about individual chapter membership selection.
My only concern is that you are past the "usual" age of a new member...I'm not saying no chapter has EVER taken someone as a junior, but it helps many Potential New Members if they can give numerous years to a chapter. But maybe they are looking for a wiser member to take on some leadership quickly!
Good Luck!

Okay, good new and bad news. Some sororities DO have a cut once cut always. However, I do know of three houses on my campus that differentiate between formal and informal recruitment. That means if they cut you during formal they may still be able to get you during informal. Others change it to be after a year you can be reevaluated for possible membership. The only groups I know on my campus that do not accept anyone after cutting them once is Kappa Delta and Chi Omega, however, this may just be my campus. If they contacted you about informal activities then go. I wouldn't say be sure you'll receive a bid, but go if you are interested still. That doesn't hurt anything and you may have a good time. Some girls hang out with my sorority that we did not extend bids to. They may not be sisters, but they are still friends. Anyways, what have you got to lose and look at what you could possibly gain.

Hey Juniorgrrl!
I too sympathize with your rush experience. I believe that I have said on this board before that the rush process is a little 'different' to me (Being that I am in a BGLO, and we typically have a different way of going about intake), and the shuffle you have gone through is one of the things that probably confuses me about the process. Anyhoooo, I will say that I think you are putting a little too much analysis into your decision making process about going to this event(s). Like you stated in your original post, 'you do not want to miss a potential opportunity', so don't! When I was asking 1,000 questions about becoming a member of the sorority I am in now, members told me "Don't anticipate, participate!" I am now going to pass that basic advice onto you. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif If something comes out of it like a bid, it will be a wonderful addition to your level of expectation if you go with an open mind. You will think that you made the right decision by going, because if you had not gone, you would not have known that you were going to be chosen to rush XYZ, and become a member! If you do not get chosen to rush, but you stick to the 'keep an open-mind plan', http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif you may come out of it with the great experience of having an awesome time, developing new and lasting friendships, and peace of mind, because at least you went. Now, if you do not go, none of the above is possible, because, well....you did not go. You are a great student with great extracurricular activities, and you would probably be a great addition to XYZ, however, all the things I just said about you still apply even if they do not decide to extend you a bid. You will at least know that you tried 'til the end, and that is the best you can do! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Now, if you do want to lament the situation, I would not go pokin' around nationals/regionals too much. Get the basic info you think you need, and leave it at that. If the people in the house are actually bending the rules to get you in, you don't want it to get back to them that you were asking alot of questions to "higher-ups" about the process. They would probably not like that too much, especially if you could ask them the same questions. Maybe you can find some of these things out over the duration of the night(s). I would find out about the cut once, cut always rule if you must, but If I were you, I would stick to the don't anticipate...participate suggestion at the top of this post. You do not want to be the person that regionals/nationals forces the chapter to extend a bid to because of some controversy...they will probably take it out on you. ***Again I will stay away from that aspect of it, because again, I do not know much about rush.*** So just go! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Good luck, and I hope everything works out well...remember you cannot win if you don't play! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

soror6
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc
Spring '91 http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

To update things a bit:

I got another call yesterday from someone I didn't know. Before I called her back, I called back the first girl, who asked "have you ever thought of getting involved on campus?" I told her yes, that i just got back from a meeting actually http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif She went on to talk about how her chapter was having a little get together, an informational type session on Sunday, and would I like to come. I accepted her offer. I called back the second person, who started to launch into the same speech and I told her that I already spoke to someone else. She said "oh, then my call to you must have been a follow up call." So it sounds like they were pretty insistant upon getting in touch with me...

I checked out their calendar on their website and it seems that their bid day will be February 9. If the party is on the 4th, that means I will know pretty soon. Lets just hope for the best...

Juniorgrrl,

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! I know that you've been waiting for this for a really long time. I have a feeling it will all work out for you.

Best of luck to you! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

GOOD LUCK!!!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Once in every lifetime, you'll know what life is. Oh I need you, you need me, oh my darling, don't you see? The Young Ones. Darling we're The Young Ones. The Young Ones. Shouldn't be afraid! To live. To love. There's a song to be sung. 'Cause we may not be The Young Ones for very long!!!

Juniorgrrl,

Good Luck! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Kevin

Thanks SO MUCH ya'll for all the support. A week from now, it will all be over - hopefully I'll have good news. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Juniorgrrl

I'm rooting for you! Good luck!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

juniorgrrl:

BEST OF LUCK TO YOU!!! I so hope that everything works out for you--you seem like you would be an AMAZING asset to any chapter!

I'm going to be on pins and needles until I find out about your results!!!

Panhellenically,

imsohappythatiama

------------------
Oh, Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
I'm so happy that I am a
Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
Nobody knows . . . how
happy I am!

An update of sorts:

Either XYZ *really* wants me or they have bad communication between members. I talked to two different members and confirmed I was attending. One of the members called me again today and I reminded her that I had spoken to her before and that I was definitely coming. While I was at class, I got a call from a *third* member, wanting to know what apartment I was in so they could come pick me up (even though I told them I would drive myself because I will be coming from another activity).

I hate to overanalyze things, but it just seems strange that they keep calling. Although, if they don't remember that they have called me, that's not a good thing either...any ideas ya'll?

Hi juniorgrrl

I don't see any sense in overanalyzing the overlapping communication . . . sometimes that kind of thing happens.

Did you ever find out whether or not the chapter has a definite cut-once, cut-always rule? Or are you just crossing your fingers?

(I'm crossing my fingers for you!!!!)

Try not to stress, although I KNOW that is easier said than done!

When I went through rush, I played Tetris all of the time to take my mind off of all of the possible scenarios that I kept dreaming up--it wasted alot of time, but it kind of kept me sane!!

Best of luck . . . . We're all rooting for you!

-imsohappythatiama

------------------
Oh, Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
I'm so happy that I am a
Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
Nobody knows . . . how
happy I am!

OK I don't want to put damper on you upcoming rush experience....but don't forget this is still a mutual selection process. Don't desire to be in a house that you accept a bid without recognizing some things that I see going on with the chapter you are rushing just by the things you have posted.

It seems they are having serious membership issues. If quota wa 70 and they only took 40 that is almost half a quota. Definately a weaker group. Additionally you have gotten called by THREE members none of whom have communicated very well. THese sound like women who are very desperate for numbers. Depending which national it is I could tell you how much they push numbers (because some nationals will put chapters on membership probation for being size deficient)

Finally if there is problems with attracting women to membership in the chapter it leads to a host of other internatl problems. Sometimes it is hard to tell which came first the membership problems or the internal ones that made the group unattracitve to join. For example if women don't want to join the group than chances are the sorority probably doesn't have that great of a social calendar, will have trouble filling their house etc.

I am sorry to be so blunt and caution you to remember these are just my guesses but I do tons of recruitment work for my group and this chapter is showing signs of weakness.

You can always pursue alum affiliation with groups after college so remember you do have options.

I am very aware that the multiple calls show signs of weakness and possible problems. But I am interested in joining this house - their philanthropy is very important to me. Also, I believe I may have exaggerated on the numbers. I checked their member roster on their website and they got maybe about 50 pledges. I'm not sure what quota was, its usually around 70 though.

I'm not sure why they have problems attracting people during formal. They are not the most exclusive sorority, but it is not "bad" by any means.

We'll see how things go tomorrow...

juniorgrrl, I know that everyone is giving you advice, and I am sure they are telling you from personal experience-that's a good thing. However, I am going to say a couple of things. First, you probably will not know 99% of the inner workings of a sorority until you are a member. Anything you hear from the outside, including assumptions made by others, are just that-assumptions. You will not know the real deal until you are on the inside, so take that in consideration with what you are hearing. I am assuming that if they were that bad off, you would not want to be a member. Second, a chapter is a part of a national organization, so do not forget the big picture! Take the national platform and the GLO's accomplishments as a whole in consideration as well. They will probably mirror your opinion more. I am not saying that you should join a crappy chapter, because you should'nt. But again, if it was that crappy, I bet you would not want to be part of it. Finally, I gotta go back to the advice I gave you a few days ago...Don't anticipate, Participate! You don't know what the communication problem is, and you probably won't so stop trying to analyze what you probably won't be able to answer!
Have fun, be yourself, and enjoy the process! If you don't like what you see at the end of the process, don't accept the bid! If you do, congratulate yourself on the long and arduous road you have taken, and welcome to greekdom http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif If you get too stressed, E-mail me. I have been dealing with potential members for 10 years now, so I will share what I can http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

soror6

Okay. So I just got back from the party. It was a combination Ice Water, Craft and House Tour party. It seemed to go really well and I was able to make good conversation with all the girls.

And then I said one of the stupidest things. I mentioned to a girl I lived in the campus apartments, and she said she did too. I asked what building. She told me. I said "oh, i used to live there, in XXXX, but I just moved to a new building" She replied "oh , i heard about that situation" I said "oh really? what did you hear?" she said "oh , i just heard that one of the roomates was really unhappy - I guess it was you." She turned away before I was able to defend my situation.

The people I was living with were downright cruel to me - I would ask them to please stop smoking in the apartment, and to keep things quiet after 1 AM or so, and I was cursed at and yelled at and downright ignored. Any comprimises were broken as soon as the opportunity arose. And now, I have to wonder if they're badmouthing me - and if it will hurt my chances with this group.

I don't know when I will hear anything - if I ever will at all. They never told us. I know their bid day is this friday - so if I hear nothing by then, I'll know.

*sigh* I'm a bit upset because I fear that this whole thing could be ruined on my former roomates' opinions of me.

While I haven't been on the inside of Rush yet, I do know people. You are probably taking this too seriously. I can't imagine that these girls would judge you on something that they heard from what seem to be (by your description of their behaviour) people of doubtful character. And remember that that girl has only one vote. Also, she may have been sympathizing - and then got called away or saw something that needed her immediate attention. I wouldn't worry about it. What will be, will be!

But I do wish you good luck!!

Allie http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

juniorgrrl,

Where are you? Have you heard anything from the chapter yet? Keep us posted!



------------------
Oh, Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
I'm so happy that I am a
Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
Nobody knows . . . how
happy I am!

I'm still here, trying not to wait for the phone to ring.

The chapter didn't tell us anything about what was going on after the party. I know from their website that Bid Day is Friday and that they didn't have any other parties listed this week. I don't know when I will know anything, if *ever* I'm trying not to think about it too much - I'm taking the LSAT (Law School Admissions Test) on Saturday, and the last thing I need is to be waiting for a phone call that I have a feeling will never come.

I'm sorry to sound so whiney, but I'm just really nervous. This is my 4th time in attempting to join a sorority and I'm just tired of the rejection. Part of me wonders if the sisters were more specific about the schedule of things with the girls they wanted. I know their Chapter meeting was Monday night, so maybe they made some decisions there.

I don't know...but I'll keep ya'll posted. Thank you all so much for the good wishes. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Hi there--

Glad to get the update. Poor you! As if worrying about the LSAT wasn't enough, you've got this hanging over your head too!

You deserve a cheer-me-up break (as my old roommate used to say)--go get some ice cream or something, or buy yourself something cute!

I wish you the absolute best of luck--both on the LSAT, and with Rush . . . you seem like such a nice person, and I'm rooting for you!!!

------------------
Oh, Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
I'm so happy that I am a
Kappa Kappa Kappa Gamma,
Nobody knows . . . how
happy I am!

I have an idea, why don't you leave? If you want to study - go to the library. That way you won't be worried about the phone ringing and you can study. In a way, you'll be removing yourself from the stress. Then, when you get finished studying, you can go home and check messages.

I hope everything works out for the best!

Allie http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

Okay, Its 8PM here. I think its quite safe to say I did not recieve a bid.

It would have been nice for them to at least let us know what was going on, rather than just have a party and never get back with you. That makes it more like a bad date rather than a sorority informal.