Looks
 

Just something i have noticed... in some sororities, if you take the time and look at all the girls- they are so beautiful! Then, you take a look at other sororities and they are pretty as well, but not like model looking. Of course, i saw this more at my other school than the one I am presently at. I know that many girls will say that they dont base things on looks- but it sometimes looks as if that was the case. At my previous school- about every sorority girl was beautiful and just perfect in every way. Now, at the school I am at- the girls look more "normal". I guess it just depends on the school- if you attend a private baptist school that is more pricey- you are going to find more people with money and even "better looking". Anyhow- i just wanted to know if its true if you base a girl on looks when it comes time for rush. Lets say you had two girls- great GPA, great personality, great interest... everything seemed the same between them- only thing was one was gorgeous and the other one was okay- how would you choose and why? I am sorry I am asking this- but it is just something i have noticed.

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"He is not perfect, you are not perfect. The question is whether or not you are perfect for each other"

BUCUTIE02, I see where you're coming from, and here's my answer to your question:

If my chapter were placed in the situation you presented, we'd probably select both of them.

Fortunately, my chapter prides itself on being a chapter that doesn't extend bids on the basis of one's looks.

We have several criteria when selecting women to receive bids, the overall impressions from the rush rounds, academic and extra-curriculars being very important ones.

One thing that I am very proud of is my chapter's diversity. There's no such thing as a "typical" sorority girl in my chapter. Whether she be skinny, full figured, affluent, not-so affluent, a goddess, or an ordinary-looking woman--she is chosen because she has the potential to embody the standards set forth in our AGD purpose.

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*I'm an Alpha Gam...Yes I am, Yes I am!*

At ECU looks matter. There hasn't been a time (rush, socials, etc)that they haven't. I have friends in the other sororities here that agree, and we also discuss a girls looks during rush. This may sound harsh, but it is very true. Otherwise how would you come apon so many "cookie cutter" chapters? At least, I know we have them here.

I agree that we would probably extend invitations to both girls. But I have some idea's on this subject.

Usually birds of a feather flock together. On my campus there is one sorority that is consistently beautiful, and they all care. All are consumed with how they look, so they all have something in common. They can sit around and talk about lip gloss all day. Those are the types of girls they have something in common with. Another sorority doesn't care anything about how they look, so those are the types of girls they attract. Is this making any sense? I think it just depends on the type of people they are.

Allie http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

I pretty much agree w/ all the replies. Yeah, a chapter would probably extend bids to both girls. But to be honest if it came down to one or the other and they were equal in every single other trait; the pretty girl would get the bid. Fortunately you'll never find two people who are identical in all other traits.

It's also true that like begets like. A chapter full of pretty girls will attract other pretty girls. Money attracts money. Brains attracts brains. The only thing I waiver on is if this is because the pretty girls only want to associate with pretty girls or if like Allie said, they just have more in common. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif

Personal appearance is something that we take into consideration during formal rush. It's not ignored during informal but it's more subconscious. In my chapter though, personal appearance falls more into did she shower and make an effort to look nice or did she run right over from the gym.

I know for a fact that our chapter at State puts much more emphasis on appearance. But that's how their entire school is. They actually turned down a legacy because she wasn't pretty enough. I happened to meet the girl later and she's cute! Just not pretty. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Personally I think it's up to each rushee to determine if this kind of thing matters to her or not. When I went through rush I spent hours getting ready each night for the parties. Then the next day I'd roll out of bed, put my hair in a ponytail, wear my glasses instead of contacts and go to class. I knew there were members in my classes. But I didn't give a @#$%!

Honestly, I believe this led me to not get a bid from the other house I wanted. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif But now that just makes me feel sorry for the girls in that house.

The chapters at my alma mater were full of all sorts of different women. There was not one that was the "prettier" one or anything. But there were two chapters that did pick the same types of women. They gravitated towards each other because they tended to party together, do drugs together, and knew the same guys. That was the saddest display of sisterhood and Greek Life I've ever seen.

Now, with this said, I think there is a really disturbing trend that I am seeing on the board. I am NOT talking about anyone in particular. I have seen this sort of thing posted "The guys/women picked tend to be prettier, it's just a fact." It's that "fact" part that I find to be a cop-out. The sun is a star, that's a fact. 2+2=4, that's a fact. The things you are talking about are things that can be changed, but no one does because they don't want to question the status quo. I think leaders emerge by challenging the status quo. Doesn't anyone want to be a leader? I hear such ennui and placency in that "it's just a fact" statement. I hope that attitude is not the standard in your chapters because it could be the death of your campus' Greek system!

Hey Rosanna
Well, here at Sam it seems to be that way too. All of the sorority girls here are so cute, but in all honesty, most of the girls that attend Sam are just that. I will say that at the few dinners I was able to attend all of the prospects were attractive and when we were introduced you'd here 'You're too cute' many times. I didn't really think of this as a big deal, since the girls I know are real sweethearts, I just kind of see this as a coincidence...at lest down here. Of course I'm not really sure since I'm still not yet Greek, but that's just from my perspective. Talk to you soon
Allison

Allison, how is your informal rush going? SWT's is over, so I was surprised to read you were not Greek yet. Keep us posted.
Susan

I have to agree most of the sorority woman at ECU are choosen on the image they present. Lucky in my chapter the women are beautiful on the inside-- and that is really all that counts. I am really tired of people judging a woman's worth on her external beauty. Men rarely have to deal with this.

quoting kdgirlie:
"Men rarely have to deal with this."

That is untrue, we have to deal with that all the time. Everytime a girl says some famous guy is cute, we feel the need to be like that person.

I definately think that looks have an impact on who is invited back and extended membership...but I also think that looks make an even bigger difference from the rushees standpoint. Coming from a school where the top 4 sororities are incredibly selective, and the rest are forced to basically take anyone, I see rushees judging sororities on looks a lot more harshly. For example, girls after being forced to meet all the sororities often choose only to go back to the "pretty ones"...this is a shame since the smaller, "less attractive" sororities are overlooked by girls, and some of these girls are overlooked by the bigger sororities... so there are always a lot of girls that don't get bids from any of their top choices and a lot of sororities that don't get quota. Its really a shame. Even though my chapter is considered "pretty", we in no way discuss the girls looks at rush...although I definately agree that all things being equal, a prettier rushee would most likely get a bid. Does anyone else feel that the rushees are more likely to judge based on looks than the sororities?

I would have to say that looks matter, but in context. You don't have to be beautiful as long as you took the time to look attractive. Cindy Crawford could come strolling in tomorrow for informal rush, but if she hadn't showered in a week, her hair hadn't seen a hairbrush in even longer, and she stopped purchasing deodarent, she's not getting in. Period. No matter how Beautiful she can be. When I was doing rush this past month, I was much more intrested in terms of looks in who took the time to get dressed nicely for our parties, who showed that this was important to them. The girls who showed up in jeans and workout gear were the girls I voted no for, because it was apparent by the way they were dressed and acted that we were just another chapter to them, and they didn't care where they got a bid from as long as they had letters across there shirt. So my attitude to them is tough patootie, you're not wearing mine.
By the way from what I am told we are considered a pretty girl chapter.
Ohmigod, i'm a senior member, i made it, i made it, i knew all my hard work and time posting wasn't wasted. I am so happy, thank you God, and everyone out there. (just kidding--but yeah!!!!! had to edit this)



[This message has been edited by USFstudent (edited January 29, 2001).]

hey Billy
I guess I am wrong. But social presure to be beatiful isn't as strong for men as it is for women

Yeah I guess it isn't as strong. But I think maybe a lot guys just won't admint. I said something on this board but probably wouldn't have in real life.

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Once in everytime, you'll know what life is. Oh I need you, you need me, oh my darling, don't you see? The Young Ones. Darling we're The Young Ones. The Young Ones. Shouldn't be afraid! To live. To love. There's a song to be sung. 'Cause we may not be The Young Ones for very long!!!

I think looks always matter, but being a model and being well grommed are two different things. A sorority woman must be able to represent their chapter and sorority to the best of her ability and yes how you look matters. Now, everyone's taste varies and if you are in a cookie cutter chapter then that's what you think is attractive, but let's be honest how many "perfect" type Potential New Members exsist?
I do not agree that East Carolina University is all about looks, every chapter has its face girls and that's to be expected, but all looks and no brains makes for a weak chapter.
The strongest on our campus is VERY well rounded beacuse it shows they value more than the superficial things you can offer and I think that appeals to everyone, PNMs more so than others, but that's who counts.
I think the more attractive girls may have it easier, but that's the same for the guys, they are concerned also.
But it all works and that's what matters, I think being Greek is a great learning experience beacuse the sooner we learn that what we do reflects others, the better. And looks will also play into it when you look for a job after college.

this article is interesting... part of it is about why women's looks matter during rush... it seems kind of true what they have to say about why attractiveness does matter. check it out:
http://www.student.virginia.edu/~dec...ord/woman.html

what do you all think?

twinstars, re that article: help!! get out your bullet proof lipstick, here come the feminazis!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif Some of that is somewhat true, most stereotypes are, but it is pathetically obvious that the author is focusing entirely on the negative aspects of sorority life.

I can assure you that we didn't sit around at rating/voting and say "will we get an extra mixer with the Crows if we give this girl a bid?" To put an article that seems to have such a low opinion of women on a woman-focused website seems like a big contradiction to me and probably anyone else with common sense, but welcome to the world of gender-victim feminism.

[This message has been edited by 33girl (edited January 29, 2001).]

My heart sank further and further as I read this article. Is this shit really going on? Are women really being told during rush that the sorority is the most popular with men? Is this what is important to women rushing these days? How many guys you can potentially hook up with? Is the social viability of a chapter the main thing potentials are looking at? Man, I am .....I have no words. I need to digest this some...

First off, before we beat ourselves up too much, the emphasis on looks isn't just a Greek problem, it's a HUMAN problem that goes back to the dawn of man. Survival of the fittest and all that rot.

I do agree with what Allie said about like attracts like, and vice versa. Part of the reason I didn't choose a certain sorority was because I felt like I would never measure up to the rest of the sisters as far as my looks were concerned. They are fabulous girls and I'm friends with some of them to this day, but I would have never felt truly comfortable there. The reverse applies too. How much would it suck to be the most jaw-dropping beauty in the sorority and have everyone be jealous of you because of it?

We've taken girls who fall far short of the "conventional" standards of beauty, but more than make up for it with brains, campus involvement, and great personalities. We've rejected girls who look liike models, but had such rotten attitudes and lack of interest we couldn't wait to hustle them out the door.

I also agree with what sigmagrrl is saying. To say 'well, the prettier girls always get picked & that's just how it is"is a copout. Maybe you have a not so physically pretty friend who would be a great sister. Stick up for her! Introduce her to sisters outside of the craziness of rush so they get to know her qualities like you do. Yes, most of us do rate rushees partly on "appearance" but that is not supposed to mean supermodel - it means that you make the most of what you have, dress nicely for your figure, and carry yourself well.

To make any changes in this everyone has to truly believe what's inside is what matters, and unfortunately that doesn't seem to be happening. I've heard of chapter consultants and national officers bitching at chapters because they took "undesirable" girls. It's kind of hard to change the "pretty counts most" mindset when it is coming from the top down.

And as far as the guys having it easier - NO WAY!! As a matter of fact, I think it's harder for guys because a lot of times they have the pressure not only to be good looking but athletic. We feel your pain, guys!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. One more reason not to go to UVa. My cousin is in a house up there, and he it sucks not having parties at the sorority houses. But I don't think that's a rule. It's just that they want to not have to clean up the next day. Good call girls http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

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Once in every lifetime, you'll know what life is. Oh I need you, you need me, oh my darling, don't you see? The Young Ones. Darling we're The Young Ones. The Young Ones. Shouldn't be afraid! To live. To love. There's a song to be sung. 'Cause we may not be The Young Ones for very long!!!

I just want to say that my use of Cindy Crawford was not because she is a supermodel but more someone who well all recognize and is universally accepted as an attractive person. I was in no was incinuating (sp?) that any prospective rushee's should like like her, or not rush. Just to clear that up.

Twinstars, I thought that article was very interesting but definitely very shocking. She brought up some interesting points but I really question the validity and truthfulness of many of her observations. Whether they are all things she saw with her own eyes or just hearsay or things she made up to give her arguement shock value.

Kevin

[This message has been edited by kmullini (edited January 30, 2001).]

i definitely agree... some parts of the article sound pretty strange to me... i've definitely never seen stuff like it in my chapter. but i thought the part about rush made sense... when a chapter gets a "hot" pledge class, its "stock goes up" with the fraternities at that school. you'll be asked to mix more, and your name carries more prestige. if a house gets a few "bad" classes in a row, they will have less social options, at least at my college, since we really are dependent on the guys to throw mixers. we never have parties in our houses, since it's against national rules to even have alcohol in the house, and at my school rules are very strictly enforced. it would be pretty much unthinkable for us to throw a party in the chapter house. if a sorority wants a good social life apart from its own date functions, it helps to be attractive... naturally, those houses are the ones guys prefer to mix with. the same thing kind of goes for fraternities, too, though. there are some fraternities on my campus that (almost) no one will mix with.

[This message has been edited by twinstars (edited January 30, 2001).]

Twinstars,

I agree with on the Rush part too. I saw that every semester as an active.

Kevin
Beta Theta Pi Alum
Epsilon Mu
George Mason University