Is collecting GLO pins right or wrong? Discuss.
 

OK, every time someone mentions "pins on eBay" or collecting pins, someone comes on this board (usually but not always a one-issue poster) and says, "Collecting isn't bad." And someone (like me) gets hotheaded and into the same old argument with them, and the original thread is completely derailed. I'm sure that's very irritating to the people who wanted to talk about the original thread topic.

So instead of starting from the premise that pin collecting is bad and how can we stop it, this thread asks - is it OK to collect GLO pins? Only your own? Defunct groups? To keep your grandma's pin? To collect any and all GLO pins?

And I'd like to remind everyone of two things: Anti-collectors, many collectors are GLO members themselves. Don't assume they're not. Collectors, many anti-collectors are out there doing more than shouting on GC. Don't assume they're all talk and no action.

Have at it!

My Opinion
 

I think it is ok to collect the badges, if your intention is to collect and own beauty, and not to make a quick profit. As a Greek, I have no issue with another Greek owning a badge that belongs to my sorority, if their intentions are honorable: to own beautiful pieces of history.

I used to get really angry about the badge collectors on e-bay. My opinion has changed though. First, we cant stop the badge collectors. Most of them have more money to spend on the badges than many of us. So as long as the collectors arent wearing the badge, then I try not to be bothered by it. Now if someone was buying a badge for the purpose of wearing or posing as a member, I would have a problem with it. These collectors are buying badges for their own personal collections, not using them to defame or do harm to our organizations.

Collecting badges is a value neutral activity. We choose to ascribe value to it, often negative, because of our own hang-ups . . . oops opinions.

So to repeat: ITs not right or wrong. It just is.

I don't think there's anything wrong with collecting pins. I see them, first, as beautiful artworks, and second, as symbols of unity and friendship. You don't need need to know what the letters on someone else's pin stand for to appreciate the sentimental value embodied in the pin.

Of course they are of historical interest to the GLO -- but they are of historical interest to everyone. This isn't just XYZ history, it's American history, ABC University history, and often women's history/African-American history, too. The fact that a pin is owned by a collector rather than a GLO does not mean that its historical importance is not being appreciated, valued, and shared.

I think it's relevant here that most of the pins on ebay and the various dealer's sites are identical to thousands of others that were minted every year. I think the argument is a little different for founder's pins, etc., which are unique and which may communicate information the GLO could not obtain elsewhere. A pin may do more to remind people about brotherhood and create goodwill for a GLO in a collector's display than it would as the seven thousandth identical pin stored in the GLO's headquarters.

Wearing a pin is not under discussion as far as I'm aware; I've never known, or even known of, a collector who was buying pins in order to wear them as fake emblems of membership.

So I think responsible collection (by which I mean storing the pins with care, making any information from unique pins available to the GLO, etc.) is just fine. Just my two cents.

IvySpice

Did you see this post?
 

This post in another part of GC has been ignored, apparently

katierosman
Junior Member

Registered: Jul 2002
Location:
Posts: 7 GLO Pin Collectors

I am a reporter in New York City working on an article about Greek Letter Organization Pin Collecting--and those who try to thwart non-member ownership of fraternity/sorority pins. (The selling of pins on eBay has made this a growing problem, apparently.) I have been in contact with a KKG alumnus who works very hard to keep auctioned pins "within the family." I'm curious to learn if other organizations are doing the same, etc. etc. etc.

If you have been involved in GLO pin collecting or keeping such pins out of the hands of non-members, I'd love to chat. Please feel free to email me directly.

Damn! Why didn't I think of that?

In theory the Delt Active Badge and The Coat of Arms contain symbolism that only initiated Delt Brothers understand, so nobody else -- even a Delt Pledge -- should have them.

In reality, there's nothing to be done about collectors, family members, etc. from having them, so I choose to ignore the "problem."

I guess it depends. I love to admire other GLO badges/pins because I find them beautiful. No, I don't know the meaning behind them; but I don't have to know the meaning to know that something is pretty. They're interesting and mysterious, and that would appeal to collectors.

However...I would feel wrong owning a badge to a GLO that I am not a member of. I am an SAI, and therefore I feel I should only own an SAI badge.

The sticky part is...many GLOs have rules about what to do with pins of resigned or dead members. SAI's rule is to have your badge returned to headquarters if you resign or pass away. They are kept there so if later, a decendant of an SAI pledges SAI and wishes to wear her relative's badge, it can be sent to her.

The only time I would buy a badge is if it was an SAI badge. Then, I would send it to nationals where it belongs.

I believe that all badges have a significant meaning to not only the organization it represents, but also to the member personally. I associate my quill with memories of college, AZD, and the bonds of sisterhood. I would not want anyone else to "collect" my badge. And I would hope that if it ever got misplaced or lost, that it would be returned to nationals or my chapter.

I believe that it's wrong...obviously.

Out of curiousity (and I'm not sure if this is public information or not... if it's not, I apologize) - how does nationals know who the badge belonged to? I mean, say I saw an SAI badge at an antique shop, bought it, and sent it to your nationals, and a whole bunch of other people do the same. Then, one day, Lisa Legacy pledges, and wants to wear her grandmother's pin. How does your nationals know who each pin belonged to, if it was bought out of a store? Does that make sense?

I don't know if it's public knowledge to tell, so i am not going to, but there are ways...secret ways.

Are there REALLY programs in place whereby you could request the badge of a deceased relative, or is this just wishful thinking? Two things make this seem very unlikely to me.

First of all, very few organizations use a consistent numbering or identification scheme, particularly on the more modern badges. To use SAI as an example, the modern goldfilled badges from this group are seldom inscribed with any indentification whatsoever. The only thing I typically see on newer badges is the maker's mark and possibly a manufacturer's serial number. No name. No chapter. No date. No membership or rollbook number. No chance of tracing it back to the original owner.

Second, knowing what I know about the national HQs of many GLOs, I find it very hard to believe any of them are organizaed well enough and/or have the resources to successfully offer such a program. OK, I'm sure if you made a special request, then one of your sisters or brothers could probably do some digging and maybe come up with something. But as a collector I've tried many many times to get basic information from HQs about particular pins or particular alumni. Sometimes they tell me they aren't allowed to give out that info (OK fine), but most of the time they sigh and admit they just aren't set up to do that kind of research. Their computerized databases only go back to around 1990, and prior to that they only have access to the same published directories as you do. Trouble with the published directories is, they are seldom ever cross referenced by membership number. Even assuming they could match up the number to the member, do they really have storage areas where the badges are all neatly indexed according to membership number so they can be easily found? I seriously doubt it. More likely all these badges are in huge piles on shelves in the basement, never to be seen again.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

IvySpice made a great point (actually I thought her whole post was right on the money):
Amen to that! These pins have souls and lives of their own. It is much better for them to be viewed and cherished in a collector's case than wasting away in a dark basement.

wptw

wptw,
I don't think you have all your information exactly correct. I can only speak from my experiences and my GLO.
We had a alum die in a serious car accident while i was in college. Her parents sent National's her Quill. Her Quill, has a record on it of who it belonged to, when, and where the member was intitated, even though it may look like a maker's mark or a serial number to those who don't know any better. That Quill was then forwarded to our chapter house where it is on display with her last composite picture behind it.
Also, when we moved into our current house we came across some old badges and badge guards, we did our research with the help of nationals as to who they would have belonged to and also have them in a display case with ther member's name.
So not all badges are locked away in a basement somewhere.

What really annoys me about people who sell pins, esp. on ebay is 1. They don't know what the letters are...they can't tell the difference between a Sigma or an Epsilon, or a theta and a phi. If they are going to sell a product, they should at least be knowlegeable.

Nevermind... I think I just got my question answered.

For DO, our badges don't have any differentiating information on them whatsoever. No mark, or initiation number, anything like that. Every badge is the same. That's why I didn't understand how you'd know who it belonged to... heck... for us, if you have two DOs living together, it's very likely that at some point your badges will get swapped. Very different than other groups, it sounds like!

Maggieaxid,

You may indeed be right in the case of your particular group. AXD does appear much more consistent than other groups when it comes to marking their badges (I almost always see either the name-date-chapter, or the membership code on quills).

I am quite experienced with badges and can always tell the difference between a manufacturer's serial number, a hallmark, a membership number and any esoteric engravings on the backs of badges. Believe me, a LOT of GLO pins have passed through my hands over the years and I would say nearly 50% of them have no identifying marks whatsoever. Especially the newer ones.

Do you know if your alumna sister's pin was given special treatment because of her tragic and untimely death? Do you think this really happens to every badge that gets returned to your HQ? Also, are you sure your HQ only used her badge ID to track her down? Her relatives must have sent it in along with some kind of letter of explanation. And finally (without actually asking a lady her age), how long ago was this? Within the last 10 or 15 years? Was this sister in the computerized database?

If I understood you correctly, the 2 badges you found are on display in your chapter house? That's great that they're being displayed. Now, if you had sent them to your HQ instead, do you still think they would be on display? Sad to say, but the badges at your HQ don't stand much chance of seeing the light of day unless they're particularly unique or historical, or unless they get "recycled" to a new sister.

Why does it annoy you that the ebay sellers don't always get the names right? Most people in the world don't know the greek alphabet or what the various badges look like. Why should they? It's important to you and me, so we expect that it should be important to others. But that's an unrealistic expectation. Do you realize the sheer volume of items that estate dealers have to buy and sell every year to make a decent living? Some just don't have the time or the inclination to research these little beauties properly. Hell, I buy junk pin lots all the time. I pick out the GLO pins and then dump the rest on ebay with little or no research as to what they are or what they mean. Besides, the smart sellers know we're doing a keyword search on "sorority pin" anyway so we'll find it regardless of the description. Anyway, that's just business, and I see no reason to take it personally. These people generally aren't out on some malicious crusade to disrespect greeks. They're just doing their job.

wptw

wptw, good point man! I know you and someone else I cant mention are doing for certain reasons!

I too would love to collect all of the Beautiful Badges and Pledge Pins and have them donated to my house! Placed in a nice frame for all to see and admire!

While I feel LXA has a Beautiful Badge there are many more out there and I Admire them a lot!

Each in its own significant way mean the Badge means something special to each member for what they went through to acheive it.

That is the key from first hand knowledge!

Jono has a LXA Badge that NO ONE can identify and has a treasure that may never be seen again!

I know where his will go so I for one am not worried. I know where mine will go so neither am I!

There are some vultures out there who will try to hold someone up for the price but not me!:)

While I don't think that collecting badges is neccesarliy wrong, I do think that it is kind of random. I like admiring other GLOs badges, but I would never want to own one...part of the reason I love our badge so much is because of the symbolism behind it.

Also, if anyone is curious, Delta Zeta also marks our badges...and if a member does not register with National HQ, upon her death, her badge is sent back to National HQ.

Blaire

So proud to be a DELTA ZEE!

No matter the letter, greeks do it better!

I have nothing against anyone who collects them personally, so please don't take it that way. I just don't see how a person who doesn't understand the meaning of something can collect it. It's just my opinion though.

brooklineu,

Two excellent points!

There is another thread around here somewhere that talks about a very old PiKA pin that has been handed down through the family. It's a touching story, yet I couldn't help chuckling to myself and wondering when someone was going to get on there and berate that person for owning a PiKA badge. I mean, she's obviously not a PiKA and technically (according to some people here) she has no right to own that badge and having it in her posession is disrepsectful to PiKA!

This exact scenario is how some of those VERY old and historical badges show up on ebay from time to time. They were handed down and handed down through the family until eventually they appeared at the estate sale of a great-grandniece or something. I think handing pins down through the family is a fantastic way to preserve the history, as well as preserving the memory of the original owner. How could you possibly tell these people that the fraternity or sorority is the rightful owner of the pin and what they're doing is wrong?

As far as militaria goes, I am perplexed about this as well. Masonic items are another good example. Rich with history and sentiment and esoteric symbolism, yet no one gets their knickers in a twist when someone puts on of their pins on ebay. Actually I have a theory about this, but it's likely to piss a few people off, so let me at least get another cup of coffee first.



Maggieaxid:

Fair enough. But hey, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks. I never personally understood why Beanie Babies were such a hot commodity.

I honestly don't think you have to know the exact symbolism of a given badge in order to appreciate it. Our ideals and our rituals are all so similar, the symbols I see on your badge will undoubtedly remind me of what the symbols on my badge mean. That's what I mean when I talk about collecting as a tool to appreciate our shared greek heritage. And THAT is the attraction of collecting. That is also why you typically don't see non-greeks collecting. For them, it really has no meaning whatsoever. Just gold and gems. But for greeks, it is still loaded with meaning even if we don't know what A.X.D. stands for. Besides, for your typical greek it's certainly not rocket science to look at a quill or a lamp or a diamond or a kite or a cross and get a general idea what the symbol is trying to convey.

wptw

That was me (and I'm a "he." ;) ) Given the tenor of some notes on collecting, I too was waiting for someone to demand that I send it back to Pike's HQ. I was pleasantly surprised when the only response from a Pike expressed pleasure and appreciation that I had the badge and treasured it.

A Phi Mu's pin has her initials, the date she was initiated, and her chapter initials. Nationals retains "ownership" of the badges -- it's noted *everywhere* that a Phi Mu does not actually own her pin, she's simply given the privledge to wear it.

Which is kind of interesting, because according to all that, I should let my spouse/children know AND put it in my will that I'd like my badge sent back to Nationals. But truly considering it... I'd love it if some great-great-granddaughter of mine was able (and interested) in wearing it.

Are fraternity pins the same way? Would a father pass on his badge to his son?

~ Jacquelyn

Hi. Me again.

wptw, at the risk of sounding quite ignorant and stupid, what exactly do you *do* with these pins?

I'm asking because I love and cherish mine... and it sits quietly in a beautiful little box on my dresser. I can't quite imagine what I'd do with a whole collection.

Where's the interest in GLO pins originate for you?

~ Jax

Hi Jacquelyn,

I do with them what ALL collectors do. I close the shades, crank up some backstreet boys, put on a ball gown, pin them all on me, turn on the disco ball and dance around in front of the mirror pretending I'm wearing a technicolor dreamcoat. Oh, and then I worship Satan, of course. All collectors do. But that goes without saying. :p

Actually, I love and cherish mine too. Some of them sit in a beautiful velvet lined display case in my library. Sadly though, the majority of my pins are starting to spend more and more time in a safety deposit box. I wish that weren't the case, because it really goes against the whole point of collecting them. But with the rising price of badges and the increased attention this subject gets, theft is becoming more of a problem for everyone.

Well, as a fraternity member myself, I just find them an excellent reminder of the finer points of being greek. Regardless of what group you belong to, you can appreciate them as outward symbols of high inner ideals, and for the most part the shape and symbolism are unchanged since the founders orignally designed them. Most of the other aspects that define a GLO (constitution, bylaws, ritual, policies, etc.) have all changed with time. But with few exceptions the badge has stayed the same. They are beautiful little pins, and a great link to our past and to our shared heritage.

wptw

HAHAHAHAHA! That cracked me up.

Seriously, though, thanks for the info. Helps me understand a little bit better. :-)

Greek love!
~ Jax

Who Cares
 

I used to get mad, but then I was thinking who cares. If I saw a lady with a Phi Tau pin, I'd laugh because Phi Tau is all males. If I saw a guy with a Phi Tau pin, I'd do our secret %^$^% and if he did not know #$%$$%, I'd ask him, why is he wearing a fraternity pin he is not involved with. He would be caught slipping all the time and every brother comming in contact with the person would know he is not the real thing. So, who cares. If someone wants to make a hobby out of collecting pins let em'.
FKT
www.bspotonline.com/phitau

I also agree that collecting badges is not bad. Only if you arent doing it for profit and you dont plan on wearing it. Of course because it means something to me I am going to try and get it before another non member does, but if you are a collector who enjoyes the beauty of my badge with no ill intent I would rather you have it than someone who it holds no value and would just turn around and sell it for profit.

I may not know the symbolizm behind your badge but we are all in a greek family per se and I do understand the bond and the meaning behind a badge. I think that in its self validates my desire to have a collection of GLO badges.