christianity in ritual?
 

i don't want to know anybody's secrets, but i'm wondering which GLOs reference christ or christianity in their ritual. not that i have anything against christians, but i'm not one and i'd feel uncomfortable about having to say a christian prayer.

Some GLO ritual is based on Christianity, some based on non-denominational themes. It varies.

Best thing to do is to ask during Recruitment if there are steps that can be taken so that your personal beliefs aren't compromised during ritual. Some sororities allow special permissions to be given to remove "Jesus Christ" from ritual and replace it with "G-d".


Please PM me with more questions. I am Jewish, as are other GC members.

I wish I could say but I can't. I would probably tell you in person whether or not we do in some vague, non revealing way.. I just don't personally feel comfortable posting that sort of stuff on here.

I guess I can give this very vague answer...

sort of yes... but sort of no.

heh, i should have clarified. I'm a she, so it really doesn't matter to me what fraternities do. i'll PM you later, pnguintrax, gotta get to class now.

Look at who the founders are and what their intentions were. A Christian writing a ritual may include Christian symbols and references to Jesus; a Jew writing a ritual probably won't. Plus, some sororities were founded on non-religious principles, so they may not have any religious references at all.

This is just my conjecture... the only ritual I have actually experienced is my own sorority's, and I'm not about to share that ;)

Sigma Chi is founded very strongly on Christianity...thus the White Cross. I'm not sure why many are scared to say if they involve christianity.....that's what we pride ourselves on.....our ritual is one everyone knows, even though they may not know the actual words and exact practices....they know what type of guys we are and what we are founded on...

If you don't feel comfortable saying something, don't say it. No one, especially your sisters/brothers, should be offended if you opt out of saying something that goes against your beliefs.

There is a great deal of variation. Obviously, Sigma Chi with its cross, as someone else said, is going to be very Christian. Other orgs have no or almost no reference to Christianity. For example, let's say during pledging there is a line from the Bible read ... but the line says, "Be nice to your fellow man," and that's it - that's a lot different from "Follow Jesus." And other organizations were founded by Jewish women (AEPhi) or to be specifically nondenominational (DPhiE), so while I have no idea what their ritual is, I would guess neither is particualarly based in Christianity.

I have the impression (although I could of course be wrong), that generally, how religious a group is in their public statements is a good indicator of ritual. For example, look at their symbols as well as open motto/symphony/statement.

I believe it is safe to say that the Delt Ritual has religious references, but does not dwell on Christianity alone. I think almost anyone would be comfortable with it.

I know that's vague. Sorry.

When I pledged in the sixties, there were a number of non-Christian members and I know that to be true today.

There are mentions of god, but all ritual is really original... no our fathers etc.

In my opinion I'd rather have to deal with christian influences then masonic ones.....

My sorority is based on the "ideals of Christian Womanhood", but there are several Jewish girls in our house. A sorority will not make you do anything you are uncomfortable with. Hope that helps, and don't be scared! :)

Just curious what you mean by that...care to expand? There is another thread discussing the similarities between Freemasonry & Greeks in general, but I'm wondering what influences you might be hesitant about.

an excerpt from our creed:
"I believe that our motto, "We live for each other," expresses the true spirit of fraternity; and that by living this motto my life will be enriched by true friendships and by unselfish service to mankind. I believe that the privilege of membership in Alpha Delta Pi brings the responsibility to do my best in whatever I undertake, always remembering that leadership requires confidence tempered with humility and courage blended with tolerance. I believe that I must strive to become a well-balanced person by following the dictates of the four points symbolized by our diamond-shaped badge: first, strengthening my own character and personality; second, watching my attitudes toward my fellow-beings; third, recognizing the value of high educational standards: and fourth, developing faith and loyalty. I believe that these four guide-posts, guarded by the stars and friendly hands clasped in the Adelphean bonds of fellowship, will lead me to achieve a rich and useful life."

i know that there are a wide range of religious beliefs in our chapter from agnostic to christian to muslim background... and no on has taken offense to our ritual :) it just happens to be that the creed does say that the founders believed the above to be the "highest ideals of christian womanhood"...

however, certainly our ideals are ones that many people wouldn't mind living by regardless of their specific religion.

now there are different areas of the united states, where chapters may emphasize their christian origins more than others (i'm thinking bible-belt -- i have met sisters from chapters like this) so like pnguintrax mentioned since you are aware of your feelings it probly would be a good idea to ask how much the "christian" aspect is emphasized, or if your beliefs might be compromised...

If you are worried about religious conotations in Greek Orgs., most are founded on some type of religious contation whether is be Christian or Hebrew. FreeMasonary is based on Christian Principles along like the Social Orgs other things!

Not Heathenisms tho!

I know of any Greek Social organization based on Paganism!

I think it is safe to say, that most of use feel some supreme being in our hearts and minds!

God Created Earth in 6 Days and on the 7 th he rested!

Just how long was a day?

I werent there was ya!?

Phi Sigma Sigma first non-sectarian sorority
 

As someone suggested research the various organizations, their founders etc. the best place to begin is with www.npcwomen.org there are 26 member sororities listed with links to all their websites.

As a plug for Phi Sigma Sigma, I encourage you to check out their website at www.phisigmasigma.org. Phi Sig was the first non-sectarian sorority founded. the following is from our history:

"The Founders of Phi Sigma Sigma came from a variety of religious and socioeconomic backgrounds. They wished to stay together as the group they had become while still in high school, but found that because of their varied backgrounds they all could not join one of the existing sororities on campus. They approaced the Dean of Women at Hunter College, and inquired about starting their own sorority, one that would promote open membership to all women of character regardless of background.

Phi Sigma Sigma was the first non-sectarian sorority, the only one open to diverse membership from its inception with a ritual not based in scripture. First in the minds of these ten women were the twin ideals which endure today. To the brotherhood of man and the alleviation of the world's pain, each Founder extended herself to her fullest capacity to live up to the mottoes the group chose. "

My founding fathers were Episcapalion, but we're not an episcapalion fraternity. My ritual is none of you business. We were founded to be good men. That is all you need to know.

All I will say is that we do reference God.

We have sisters who are athiest, who abstain from those parts of ritual and activities, which is perfectly fine, but sometimes I wonder if they feel "put on the spot"... we were such a small chapter that it was VERY noticeable when someone doesn't participate.

You may want to consider whether you have a problem with Christian values and references to Jesus and God or whether you just don't want to actually have to say any Christian prayers. I'm an agnostic greek and don't have a problem with any organization founded on Christian values ("love thy neighbor as thyself" and that sort of general stuff) but would have a real problem if I was asked to actually practice Christiananity or to pray to Jesus (like in a Christian sorority). My advice would be to clarify exactly what would make you uncomfortable and then ask the girls whether they expect you to participate in a way in which you would prefer not to. Also ask if they participate in any Christian activities as a sisterhood (for example do the sisters go to church together regularly and would they find it strange if you didn't?). GLO's want you to be where you feel comfortable and happy. Most sororities do their best not to be religiously exclusive, even ones which identify themselves with a certain religious philosophy.

thanks, HelloKitty, I think that's what i'll do.

OptimistPrime, i didn't ask for your ritual. i don't want to know anybody's ritual. i just want to know if i'd have to say prayers if i joined a sorority.

A lot of sororities and fraternities have christian refrences in their ritual unless the GLO was founded on specific principles. Most of the people who joined/founded the early GLOs were christians...so it would follow that christianity would be reflected in the ritual! :)

Jess

Scared,
1) I honestly do not think you should fret. Thousands of people have been initiated before you...if there was a religious conflict to your principles, don't you think another would have addressed it a long time ago?

2) Robert Egan addresses this very subject in "From Here to Fraternity"..he writes:
God, Man and Fraternity

Pledges often wonder whether they must admit to a belief in the Big Guy (God, the Almighty, the Creator) during initiation. Yes and No. Yes, some rituals may mention the word God, since many were founded during more traditional times, but no, almost no rituals (according to one study) ask outrightly in the pledge actually believes in Him (or Her).

The rule of thumb is this: If the ritual mentions God, and you are a nonbeliever, either pretend you didn't hear it, or think of God as atoms, love, or a sunny day at the beach, say the stock phrases; and worry about your principles later, such as after the initiation party, after you leave college, or when you reach the Gates of Heaven. Everybody does.

Take it as you will......

3) American money says "In God We Trust". I am kind of surprised that there hasn't been a motion to get that changed, since America is such a diverse country with different religions, beliefs etc.

FYI, Phi Mu is founded on Christian principals... just look at our creed:

"...To reverence God as our maker, striving to serve him in all things..."

Examine symbols and creeds. You'll probably get quite a bit of information as to what the organization is based on just from that alone. :)

Christians aren't the only ones that believe in G-d. However, Christians are the only ones that believe in Jesus Christ.

Phi Mu may have been founded on Christian principles, but you cannot learn that from your creed. You can learn that you believe in a diety.

Non Religious Ritual
 

Alpha Chi Omega absolutely doesn't refer to Jesus, Christianity, or to any other religion in any of our dealings. It is stated time and again before any time of formal organization (ie, meeting, ritual, ceremonies, etc.) that it is not to be viewed as a religious event. I have sisters of many faiths, so I think that anyone should and would be comfortable.

Our Symphony best describes to the outer world what we believe in and strive for as AXO's. Hope this helps!

Barbara is correct on this one. I am a Jewish Phi Mu, and I know many others. If you would be comfortable saying our open creed, you would be comfortable participating in our ritual.

I stand corrected! :)

I do have to say that it's not a big deal. KD is founded on Christian principles, but in no way is religion ever pressed upon you. There have been many non-christian women initiated, especially within my own chapter. I don't think it's fair to think that people should be scared away by it. It's not a big deal at all, if anything.
There's also a lot of different definitions of "christian". I'm Catholic. I have heard some people say that Catholics aren't Christians. Probably half my chapter is Catholic, that's just the demographics that make up the area.
No GLO that you join should press religion upon you.

I think what Leslie Ann is saying makes a lot of sense. I'm agnostic, and that's never made a difference to me as an Alpha Xi Delta. But when I was initiated into Order of Omega, I was surprised to find out one of the things I had to testify to was a belief in God. I felt very uncomfortable with that - especially as I didn't think a "general" org like that would expect me to swear to a belief that is not common to all Greeks. I think it has lessened my belief in the organization - I feel like I'm cheating by being a member.

On the other hand, I have no problem with precepts derived from religion. Love, kindness, fairness, respect, etc. - even if they're backed up with a quote from a holy book. After all, I don't want a sister who is against sisterliness!

I do think that if I had gotten to initiation for my sorority and found out I was accepting principles I didn't fully believe in, it would have lessened my experience as a sister.

Scared Person I didn't mean that the way it came across. Um...let me see...Our Creed ends with "serving my God, my Country and my fellow man." The emphaisis should be placed on MY. We love our brothers no matter what their beliefs are. We've had christian, jewish, muslim, hindu (i think) buddhist, pagan, etc. brothers. There is room for us all.

It has
 

In regards to US currency, people have brought cases into court on that matter. The final ruling was that it was used so often that it no longer was a religious statement, if I remember correctly.

And I'll be honest, that Robert Egan quote about the rule of thumb bothers me...

-Rudey

Kappa Sigma is an outright exception to this study then...There are two extremely important questions asked before a man can be initiated into the Fraternity, both of which must be honestly and truthfully answered positively.

1) Are you now, or have you ever been a member of another secret college organization,

and 2) Do you profess belief in a higher supreme being?

An atheist will NEVER be initiated into the fraternity knowingly. If one ever is, they will be expelled from the fraternity IMMEDIATELY.

It does not matter which higher being you believe in or how you practice, just that you believe in a supreme being. While there are references to the Jewish Bible (5 books of moses, old testament) and the new testament in the fraternity, you do not have to hold the beliefs in those books. (For example, I am Jewish, and still a Kappa Sigma, though I do not believe in the new testament.)

The easiest way to explain this will be with FreeMasonry: FreeMasonry has openly said there beliefs stem from King James, yet you may have no belief in the KJ bible and be muslim, buddhist, etc. and still be a full able member of freemasonry.

Just a question:

Since you listed this first one, is being a member of another secret org a bad thing to your org?

Being a member of another secret organization is not bad. For example, you may be a member of freemasonry before a Kappa Sigma and afterwards...these are two distinct types of fraternities and organizations. In fact, some of our founders were freemasons, and so was Steven Alonzo Jackson, the man who is responsible for turning Kappa Sigma into a struggling local fraternity into the national organization it is today.

However, you cannot be a member of another secret college organization (you can't be in another college fraternity). If you are in another college secret fraternity, then you could not be 100% faithful to Kappa Sigma...it would not be fair to Kappa Sigma or another similar organization if you were a member of both.

Does this make sense?

Traditionally, in most U.S. Masonic lodges, you'll see the Holy Bible on the altar, though any member may choose the use of the sacred book of his own faith (the Tanakh for the Jew, the Qu'ran for the Muslim, etc.) to take the obligations of Freemasonry. Some other Grand Lodges in other countries will place the holy writings of different faiths upon the altar.

For the three degrees, the Holy Bible is opened to the following passages of Scripture:

Entered Apprentice: Psalms 133. (Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for Brethren to dwell together in unity. It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard, that went down to the skirts of his garment. As the dew of Hermon, and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion; for there the Lord commanded the blessing, even life forevermore.) (Sound familiar? It's one of the most common passages of Scripture adopted by Greek letter organizations.)

Fellowcraft: Amos 7:7-8. (Thus He shewed me; and behold the Lord stood upon a wall made by a plumb line, with a plumb line in His hand. And the Lord said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, a plumb line. Thus saith the Lord, Behold! I will set a plumb line in the midst of my people Israel. I will not again pass by them anymore.)

Master Mason: Ecclesiastes 12:1-7. (Remember now thy Creator, in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; while the sun and the light, or the moon, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain. In the day when the keepers of the house shall tremble, and the strong men shall bow themselves, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those that look out of the windows be darkened, and the doors shall be shut in the streets. When the sound of the grinding is low, and he shall rise up at the voice of the bird, and all the daughters of music shall be brought low. Also, when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail. Because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets; or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.)

In the Entered Apprentice initiation, before the candidate proceeds further in the ceremony, the Worshipful Master recites the following prayer:

Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father of the Universe, to this our present convention; and grant that this candidate for Masonry may dedicate and devote his life to Thy service, and become a true and faithful brother among us. Endue him with a competency of Thy divine wisdom that by the secrets of our art he may better be enabled to display the beauties of godliness to the honor of Thy Holy Name. Amen.

In the Master Mason degree, before the candidate is raised to the Sublime Degree of a Master Mason the Worshipful Master offers the following prayer:

Thou, O God, knowest our down-sitting and our up-rising, and understandest our thought afar off. Shield and defend us from the evil intentions of our enemies, and support us under the trials and afflictions we are destined to endure through this vale of tears. Man that is born of a woman is of but few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth as a flower and is cut down; he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with Thee; Thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass; turn from him that he may rest till he shall accomplish his day.

For if there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. But man dieth and wasteth away; yea man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and flood decayeth and drieth up, so man lieth down and riseth not up till the heavens shall be no more. Yet, O Lord, have compassion on the children of Thy creation; administer them comfort in time of trouble, and save them with an everlasting salvation! Amen.

In case you're wondering, these prayers are not considered secret in Freemasonry, so I'm not violating my Obligation as a Mason by posting them here.

Here's a question. If at the time of initiation, someone is say, a Christian, and years after their views shift so that they no longer believe in a higher power, are they expected to renounce their membership in any way? Say, if this happened 20 years down the line and became apparent to an alumni association or like group, would they be forcibly expelled, even after years of service to the fraternity? Has a situation like that ever happened?

(I will, of course, totally understand if you are unable to answer any of the above.)

That is a really good question.

As a guess, I don't think they would enforce it, because a good alum is a good alum. I know if we expelled alums who didn't take their oaths seriously, and there are a good amount of them (ahem paying dues), we would be lacking severely.

If an alumni shifts their religious views 20 years down the road, and makes it public, there would be a move to expel the member from the fraternity, no matter how active the alumni might be. If you are an athiest at the time of your initiation but lie about it and make it public afterwards, you will be expelled. If you are an atheiest, there is no place for you in Kappa Sigma...plain and simple.

Geeky: Kappa Sigma is not for a day or a month or a college term only, but for LIFE. Brothers are expected to and do keep their oaths very close to their heart. The oath I took is what makes me a Kappa Sigma, not that one would pay their alumni dues on time every year.

Yes, yes, I know - part of the commitment we make as Gamma Phis is to remain financially supportive, among lots of other things. That was a bad example. I think it's really cool that you guys have the rule that you must have a belief though. Just from what I know of SigEp, it has always boggled me that they don't mandate it.

I wonder if someone could tell by looking at the crests of various fraternities and sororities if a religion plays an important part in the organization's basis?

Even if it's not explicitly stated what the various components of the crests mean, don't most of them confirm to heraldic devices?

Okay, so a man can't be an atheist and a Kappa Sigma. Is it also the case that one couldn't be a Buddhist and a Kappa Sigma?

I'm just curious because I find this very interesting. :)