GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   News & Politics (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=207)
-   -   Alpha Phi does not support Safe Campus Act (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=199953)

GTAlphaPhi 11-12-2015 02:04 PM

Alpha Phi does not support Safe Campus Act
 
From the Huffington Post: Alpha Phi Becomes First Sorority To Say It Doesn't Support Safe Campus Act
The statement, obtained by The Huffington Post, was issued by Alpha Phi's national office "at the request of many of our members and chapters." It explains that "Alpha Phi has not endorsed this legislation and has not committed to any financial support" and takes issue with several aspects of the Safe Campus Act.
* * * * * * * * * *
"We believe our sisters who are survivors should have choices in how, when and to whom they go to for support or to report the crime," Alpha Phi said in the statement. "They should have their own voice and the support and encouragement they need to move forward including reporting as they choose to."
* * * * * * * * * *
Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) [Kappa Kappa Gamma, Dartmouth] and Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) [Kappa Alpha Theta, Missouri], both former sorority members who have proposed their own legislation to reform the way colleges handle campus sexual assault, recently criticized the NPC for backing the Safe Campus Act. Both senators had planned to reach out to national sorority representatives to discuss the problems with the bill.
The article also reports the entire the statement released by the Alpha Phi International Executive Board and Executive Office Staff.

NPC's response to Senator McCaskill and Senator Gillibrand.

Kevin 11-12-2015 02:20 PM

No one has been able to explain to me, especially in light of cases like UVA, how college administrators are qualified to perform quasi-law-enforcement roles and why rape on a college campus should be treated different from rape anywhere else.

That's the gist of the Safe Campus Act--getting law enforcement involved where otherwise, things could be swept under the rug.

33girl 11-12-2015 02:35 PM

Part of the problem is that law enforcement in some college towns ranges from sketchy to nonexistent to Barney Fife. If the town/gown relationship is bad, the police aren't going to care about (in their eyes) some overprivileged sorority girl saying she was assaulted.

The intent of the SCA is good and necessary, the execution is just crummy.

Kevin 11-12-2015 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 2383729)
Part of the problem is that law enforcement in some college towns ranges from sketchy to nonexistent to Barney Fife. If the town/gown relationship is bad, the police aren't going to care about (in their eyes) some overprivileged sorority girl saying she was assaulted.

The intent of the SCA is good and necessary, the execution is just crummy.

The same could be said for university administrators. In fact, one thing I can say about every administrator I've ever met--not a single one is well suited to play judge, jury and executioner in a law-enforcement role. No six-hour seminar or weekend seminar or whatever is going to prepare them to be law enforcement, which is what is needed in these situations.

I agree, many cities police departments are ill-equipped to handle these cases, but when you start to branch out to county/parrish/whatever law enforcement, the options get better.

Even in Oklahoma, I can't think of a single county sheriff, outside of maybe one county (which doesn't have a university in its jurisdiction) who I would trust less to handle a rape investigation than a university administrator, much less, have the same range of punishment available.

Rapists don't need to be expelled, they need to be sent to prison.

sugar and spice 11-12-2015 02:52 PM

In most cases, campus rape investigations aren't intended to punish offenders or take the place of a legal investigation. The only thing it's intended to do is to make it possible for the victim to feel like she's not in danger of being revictimized as she finishes her education. Many, many rape victims end up leaving school otherwise.

I'm kind of ambivalent on the Safe Campus Act personally (in most cases, both the school and the legal system mishandle rape cases; this isn't going to fix that), but it's pretty controversial and there's no reason Greek organizations--especially sororities--should be throwing their weight behind it. I hope other groups follow Alpha Phi's move. Sorority women already deal with even higher rates of sexual assault than the general college population, and I hope the women who run our organizations keep that fact in mind when they're deciding when to get political.

Kevin 11-12-2015 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugar and spice (Post 2383732)
In most cases, campus rape investigations aren't intended to punish offenders or take the place of a legal investigation. The only thing it's intended to do is to make it possible for the victim to feel like she's not in danger of being revictimized as she finishes her education. Many, many rape victims end up leaving school otherwise.

And even then, these policies are enforced by people who are not qualified to enforce them. How are these people qualified to conduct a criminal investigation, then without allowing the accused to cross examine the accuser, make the determination that the preponderance of the evidence is that someone committed a sexually violent crime against the other and to penalize the accused despite 1) the accused never had a right to a jury, 2) never had the right to cross examine the witnesses against him, 3) does not have the right to legal counsel [but if he does bring legal counsel, the school is supposed to provide the victim legal counsel free of charge], 4) and the penalties are a lot greater than a slap on the wrist.

And even still, what if that panel finds that not only did this guy do the bad thing, let's say he admits it. They are under no duty to reveal that to law enforcement, and probably won't because it will negatively impact campus crime statistics. In fact, due to campus crime statistics, a lot of these things are swept under the rug.

Again, what is bad about requiring law enforcement at least get first crack at these things? I can't imagine advising a student to do anything other than shutting the **** up if he's investigated for a sex crime when being interviewed by Title IX investigators. You know, they can listen to the alleged victim's side, the alleged perp can assert his 5th Amendment rights and it's almost a slam dunk that he'll be found responsible.

The spirit (certainly not the practice) of our legal system is that the state has the burden of proof, that the accused is innocent until proven guilty and that the state has to follow certain rules of evidence and that the rights of the accused matter. Title IX investigations throw all of that out the window in a rush to find someone responsible whether something happened or not.

That's what this Act is supposed to prevent.

amillionlights 11-12-2015 05:04 PM

Alpha Chi Omega posted this message on their website today. The full piece is here, but here's the important stuff:

Quote:

Alpha Chi Omega maintains that sexual assault should not be a political, partisan issue. We are encouraged that the supporters of both the House and the Senate bills are now collaborating to find common ground solutions to make our campuses safer. Alpha Chi Omega has and will continue to advocate for victim-centered legislation that protects the rights of Greek organizations and also has the support of victim advocacy groups and the higher education community.

Alpha Chi Omega values its NPC membership and the many benefits that membership provides to our campuses, college and alumnae panhellenic associations, and individual members. We appreciate our members who have contacted the national organization with your thoughts on this critical issue. We are proud that Alpha Chi Omega, its members, and NPC, the largest women’s organization in the country, are at the table to influence legislation on a topic so close to our hearts. Alpha Chi Omega remains unwavering in our support of the victims of this pervasive crime.
I'm a little surprised they posted this, actually, since it seems very wishy-washy. I'm definitely not going to pretend like I know every pro and con, every in and out, of the Safe Campus Act, but I don't know why the law in particular targets sexual crimes and not others. I think the fact that it is controversial at best, damaging at worst, and the fact that so many victim advocacy groups, victims, and members of our own organizations have opposed it, is concerning, and I wish more groups, including my own (and NPC) would choose to not support it.

Kevin 11-12-2015 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amillionlights (Post 2383745)
but I don't know why the law in particular targets sexual crimes and not others.

This is a red herring floated by activist groups. A stupid one at that considering that the existing law (VAWA and Title IX) already differentiate between sex crimes and other crimes. If the current law required that a burglary be investigated and prosecuted in the same manner as a sexual assault, I might find this argument to be appealing, but that just isn't the case.

amillionlights 11-12-2015 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2383749)
This is a red herring floated by activist groups. A stupid one at that considering that the existing law (VAWA and Title IX) already differentiate between sex crimes and other crimes. If the current law required that a burglary be investigated and prosecuted in the same manner as a sexual assault, I might find this argument to be appealing, but that just isn't the case.

Oh, I understand. Thanks for the clarification. I really appreciate it!

DGTess 11-12-2015 07:16 PM

As a campus rape survivor, I applaud those organizations that are not spending their time fighting for this particular law.

No individual should give up his/her right to have crimes investigated by law enforcement, and no school that attempts to take away that right is acting in the best interest of the victim.

No law proclaiming "this is how it will be done" is appropriate for every instance. This act is an attempt to "do something" even while admitting no one has one universal solution.

3StringedLyre 11-12-2015 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amillionlights (Post 2383745)
Alpha Chi Omega posted this message on their website today. The full piece is here, but here's the important stuff:



I'm a little surprised they posted this, actually, since it seems very wishy-washy. I'm definitely not going to pretend like I know every pro and con, every in and out, of the Safe Campus Act, but I don't know why the law in particular targets sexual crimes and not others. I think the fact that it is controversial at best, damaging at worst, and the fact that so many victim advocacy groups, victims, and members of our own organizations have opposed it, is concerning, and I wish more groups, including my own (and NPC) would choose to not support it.

It IS wishy washy. It's a non-answer basically amounting to "We want to sound supportive and proactive but don't want to go against the NPC so here are some inspiration buzzwords. LITB." I'm furious.

NinjaPoodle 11-13-2015 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2383725)
No one has been able to explain to me, especially in light of cases like UVA, how college administrators are qualified to perform quasi-law-enforcement roles and why rape on a college campus should be treated different from rape anywhere else.

Throwing this out there but what about in loco parentis?

DeltaBetaBaby 11-13-2015 01:52 PM

Phi Mu has come out with the following statement:

"
November 13, 2015

Dear Sisters,

We are writing to clarify our stance on the proposed Safe Campus Act and Fair Campus Act legislation that were endorsed by the National Panhellenic Conference (NPC).

Phi Mu Fraternity is committed to continuing to fight against relationship violence and sexual assault. The safety and well-being of our members remains of utmost importance. Phi Mu Fraternity does not endorse the Safe Campus Act nor the Fair Campus Act legislation. While we appreciate the intent of the proposed legislation, we do not support the bills. We value the work that the NPC Campus Safety and Sexual Assault Task Force has done in providing educational materials for member organizations and providing a forum for conversations on this topic to take place.

We have resource materials available online for members who are survivors of sexual assault and those who are seeking information to help survivors. We are also in a partnership with relationship violence prevention expert Aaron Boe and are entering into an agreement with the One Love Foundation. We are continuing to develop educational programs to address these important topics.

Our National Council will carefully evaluate any other proposed legislation that may be beneficial to our members. If we endorse any legislation in the future, we will be transparent and share that information with you. We would like to thank those members, collegians and alumnae, who have reached out to us to express their thoughts on this important matter.

Yours in Our Bond,
The National Council of Phi Mu Fraternity"

3StringedLyre 11-13-2015 02:10 PM

Alpha Chi Omega has clarified their statement.

"For our members asking for clarification on yesterday's statement, Alpha Chi Omega has not and will not endorse the Safe Campus Act nor the Fair Campus Act without substantive victim-centered changes.
Alpha Chi Omega is looking for legislation that is victim-centered and has the support of the higher education community and victims' advocacy groups. As a leader in NPC and in the area of domestic violence awareness, we take our role very seriously and believe collaboration is the best way to advance victim-centered legislation.
We are committed to the conversation and finding solutions that will ensure our members and all collegians have the choices and resources they need as victims of sexual assault."

https://www.facebook.com/alphachiome...53717607790682

joliebelle 11-13-2015 09:14 PM

Gamma Phi Beta has released the following statement:

Dear members:

Gamma Phi Beta prides ourselves on being a member-focused organization full of confident women of character. The safety and well-being of our members has always been – and will always be – of paramount concern. Over the last several months, Gamma Phi Beta has reviewed the legislation endorsed by the National Panhellenic Conference (NPC). We have debated the merits, and we have listened to you, our members. Today, we share that Gamma Phi Beta does not support the current NPC-endorsed legislation as written. Our reason is simple: the legislation as currently written does not represent the mission, vision, values and guiding principles of our organization. As a member-focused organization 200,000 women strong, we must stand behind our values.

While we do not support the current legislation as it stands, we do support legislation and solutions that protect the safety and rights of our members – and all students. We support NPC’s participation in finding these solutions. We support all NPC member organizations in educating our members on the legislative process and the need for solutions that allow our members and students to flourish in their campus environments. We are committed to being part of this conversation and we welcome your comments at gammaphibeta [at] gammaphibeta.org.

In IIKE,
Gamma Phi Beta’s International Council 2014-16


It can be found on our website

clemsongirl 11-13-2015 09:24 PM

Delta Phi Epsilon HQ put out this statement:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTt8h7iWwAAoxXa.jpg:large

Sigma Delta Tau has said that they opposed supporting the bills at the annual NPC meeting last month, Delta Gamma HQ says they do not sponsor any current legislation regarding sexual assault on college campuses and Alpha Gamma Delta has also voiced their disapproval of both bills.

clemsongirl 11-13-2015 09:44 PM

For what it's worth, I do not support this legislation both as a survivor of sexual assault and as a member of the student judiciary that participates in administrative hearings where students can potentially be removed from campus. I believe that requiring survivors to go to the police in order to seek separation from their attacker on-campus is counterproductive, especially when the police on campus hold beliefs like this.

I can agree that some schools may need an overhaul in how they hear alleged cases of sexual assault, but forcing survivors to the police first to protect their safety on campus is not the way to do it.

Griffins&Quills 11-13-2015 10:32 PM

National Panhellenic Conference has withdrawn their support

Alpha O 11-14-2015 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griffins&Quills (Post 2383997)
National Panhellenic Conference has withdrawn their support

Here is the statement:

https://www.npcwomen.org/resources/a...e%20Agenda.pdf

GTAlphaPhi 11-14-2015 02:15 AM

The NIC has also withdrawn support.

I am curious as to which fraternities and sororities put out statements against the Safe Campus Act before the umbrella organizations withdrew support, or those who have not yet formally announced their individual organization's support of or opposition to the Safe Campus Act. Also, were there any statements going either way from NPHC and its constituent groups?

Just to recap who has been named on this thread:
  • Alpha Phi
  • Phi Mu
  • Alpha Chi Omega
  • Gamma Phi Beta
  • Delta Phi Epsilon
  • Sigma Delta Tau
  • Delta Gamma
  • Alpha GAmma Delta

I'm surprised not to have heard (through social media or from NPC friends) about some of the largest groups like KKG, KAT, DDD, XO, DZ, and ZTA. They might have put out statements, but I just hadn't heard about it.

Kevin 11-14-2015 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemsongirl (Post 2383918)
For what it's worth, I do not support this legislation both as a survivor of sexual assault and as a member of the student judiciary that participates in administrative hearings where students can potentially be removed from campus. I believe that requiring survivors to go to the police in order to seek separation from their attacker on-campus is counterproductive, especially when the police on campus hold beliefs like this.

I can agree that some schools may need an overhaul in how they hear alleged cases of sexual assault, but forcing survivors to the police first to protect their safety on campus is not the way to do it.

You are an undergraduate who sits on a judicial panel for Title IX investigations?

Tom Earp 11-14-2015 03:41 PM

GCers. I am not to amazed at what I am seeing! While a discussion about LXA leaving NIC because of their beliefs, it seems that some changes are coming about by others as well.

It is some what heartening to see that we/some feel an injustice with what is trying to be swept under the rug by some.

Many things are going on around campuses all across the country and we as Greeks should set an example. Basically keeping common sense in the mirror!
When it comes to something like rape, this is a legal matter to be handled by the police. If and only if a crime is found to be committed they the findings can be turned over to the school for the decision of the status of the student involved. A situation like rape is not up to the school to make a judgement, that is for the courts of law of which they are not.

It may sound egotistical, but, we are mostly the elite on campus because of all that we as Greeks do!

I applaud Alpha Phi for their stand in this and Delta Phi Epsilon!

Kevin 11-14-2015 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Earp (Post 2384468)
GCers. I am not to amazed at what I am seeing! While a discussion about LXA leaving NIC because of their beliefs, it seems that some changes are coming about by others as well.

It is some what heartening to see that we/some feel an injustice with what is trying to be swept under the rug by some.

Many things are going on around campuses all across the country and we as Greeks should set an example. Basically keeping common sense in the mirror!
When it comes to something like rape, this is a legal matter to be handled by the police. If and only if a crime is found to be committed they the findings can be turned over to the school for the decision of the status of the student involved. A situation like rape is not up to the school to make a judgement, that is for the courts of law of which they are not.

It may sound egotistical, but, we are mostly the elite on campus because of all that we as Greeks do!

I applaud Alpha Phi for their stand in this and Delta Phi Epsilon!

You do realize that Alpha Phi, Delta Phi and now NPC pulled out because they do not support requiring schools to involve law enforcement when sexual misconduct is alleged?

(apparently you don't)

clemsongirl 11-14-2015 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2384423)
You are an undergraduate who sits on a judicial panel for Title IX investigations?

I could be asked to be a member of a hearing board for Title IX investigations, I have not specifically heard one yet.

BoomBoom1851 11-15-2015 05:22 AM

Alpha Delta Pi is also against the bills as of Saturday.

Kevin 11-15-2015 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemsongirl (Post 2384531)
I could be asked to be a member of a hearing board for Title IX investigations, I have not specifically heard one yet.

Nothing against you personally, but wow. One of my chief complaints is that college administrators have no qualifications or experience investigating sexual assaults and some universities are allowing undergrads to do it? Do you have experience in law enforcement?

AZTheta 11-15-2015 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomBoom1851 (Post 2385107)
Alpha Delta Pi is also against the bills as of Saturday.

NPC withdrew support on Friday 11-13-15. Just saw an official statement from Alpha Omicron Pi come across my news feed a few minutes ago.

Of note: Senator Claire McGaskill, Missouri (D) (Kappa Alpha Theta alumna), and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, New York (D) (Kappa Kappa Gamma alumna), both came out against the bill on Thursday, October 29th, 2015. This was not action taken as representatives of their respective fraternities. Their memberships were referenced. There was media coverage.

Alpha O 11-15-2015 12:52 PM

AOII's statement:

Quote:

November 14, 2015

Dear Sisters,

Over the past several months, Alpha Omicron Pi has engaged in discussions with our members and National Panhellenic Conference partners surrounding proposed legislation relating to sexual assault and sexual violence on college campuses. It is our commitment to stand firmly against all forms of sexual assault and sexual violence, and support all efforts to eliminate these crimes from our campuses and Fraternity/Sorority communities. The well-being and safety of our members will always be our priority as we fully support survivors in their efforts to both heal and to seek justice.

AOII has listened to our members and partners, AOII leaders have met face to face with legislators in the House and Senate, and we have concluded that Alpha Omicron Pi will not support the Safe Campus Act. Full collaboration continues in Washington to find common ground solutions to make our campuses safer and we are encouraged by those efforts. In the coming months, we will work alongside our NPC and NIC interfraternal friends, campus partners and members of Congress in an effort to find agreement in order to move forward in support of legislation that includes:

· Ensuring and promoting a survivor-centered response: Devote appropriate resources for the care, support and guidance of students affected by sexual violence.

· Training and education programming: Mandatory educational programs that encourage bystander intervention and that raise awareness regarding sexual violence.

· Due process rights for student organizations: Rules to prevent institutions from punishing student organizations or their members in cases of sexual violence without conducting a disciplinary hearing.

· Preservation of fraternities and sororities as single-sex organizations: Protection of the single-sex exemption fraternities and sororities are provided under Title IX by preventing publicly funded colleges and universities from making fraternities and sororities co-ed.

There are many more conversations to be held in the days ahead. The Executive Board will continue to evaluate legislation and keep members informed on important developments. We appreciate the voices of those members who have reached out with questions and vow to continue listening to your concerns surrounding the important topic of sexual violence.

Fraternally,

The 2015-2017 AOII Executive Board
It can also be viewed on AOII's website.

clemsongirl 11-15-2015 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2385117)
Nothing against you personally, but wow. One of my chief complaints is that college administrators have no qualifications or experience investigating sexual assaults and some universities are allowing undergrads to do it? Do you have experience in law enforcement?

I do not investigate anything. I sit on a hearing board where any evidence may be presented to me.

gatordeltapgh 11-15-2015 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 2385117)
Nothing against you personally, but wow. One of my chief complaints is that college administrators have no qualifications or experience investigating sexual assaults and some universities are allowing undergrads to do it? Do you have experience in law enforcement?

Typically, the investigation is done by campus police if they are a sworn law enforcement official or a trained investigator that is a staff member in the Title IX office, student affairs office or other. Then some hearing boards are comprised of students, faculty and staff. Others do not have students as participants. Appeals then head up to the VP student affairs or the President.

Some of the issue at hanf is that there is no standard practice.

Kevin 11-15-2015 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clemsongirl (Post 2385166)
I do not investigate anything. I sit on a hearing board where any evidence may be presented to me.

That students are making judicial determinations here is just scary stuff. I know you are qualified to serve on a jury in a real court, but the same rules of evidence keeping certain facts from the jury to render their decision more fair do not apply in these circumstances.

The jury system as it stands has developed over hundreds of years. We cannot expect to just port something over which sorta kinda looks like that and expect it to work just fine.

Again, this isn't a personal attack on you at all.

--and that said, most trial lawyers avoid jury terms in June like the plague because they don't want a bunch of college kids who got deferred jury service to fill up their jury pool..fwiw :)

GTAlphaPhi 11-16-2015 11:04 PM

Updating and alphabetizing the list:
  • Alpha Chi Omega
  • Alpha Delta Pi
  • Alpha Gamma Delta
  • Alpha Omicron Pi
  • Alpha Phi
  • Delta Gamma
  • Delta Phi Epsilon
  • Gamma Phi Beta
  • Phi Mu
  • Sigma Delta Tau
Official position unknown (to me) or unpublished:
  • Alpha Epsilon Phi
  • Alpha Sigma Alpha
  • Alpha Sigma Tau
  • Alpha Xi Delta
  • Chi Omega
  • Delta Delta Delta
  • Delta Zeta
  • Kappa Alpha Theta
  • Kappa Delta
  • Kappa Kappa Gamma
  • Phi Sigma Sigma
  • Pi Beta Phi
  • Sigma Kappa
  • Sigma Sigma Sigma
  • Theta Phi Alpha
  • Zeta Tau Alpha


Quote:

Originally Posted by GTAlphaPhi (Post 2384245)
The NIC has also withdrawn support.

I am curious as to which fraternities and sororities put out statements against the Safe Campus Act before the umbrella organizations withdrew support, or those who have not yet formally announced their individual organization's support of or opposition to the Safe Campus Act. Also, were there any statements going either way from NPHC and its constituent groups?

Just to recap who has been named on this thread:
  • Alpha Phi
  • Phi Mu
  • Alpha Chi Omega
  • Gamma Phi Beta
  • Delta Phi Epsilon
  • Sigma Delta Tau
  • Delta Gamma
  • Alpha GAmma Delta

I'm surprised not to have heard (through social media or from NPC friends) about some of the largest groups like KKG, KAT, DDD, XO, DZ, and ZTA. They might have put out statements, but I just hadn't heard about it.



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.