Formal Recruitment Suicide???
 

When I went through the sorority formal recruitment at my university, I knew by the "Preference" party where I wanted to be, and that this house was the sisterhood I wanted. However, my Rho Chi (rush advisor) told our rush group to be sure and put down both our first and second choice for a sorority. (If you've never been through formal rush, to "suicide" is to put only one choice down). But the way I viewed it was that if I didn't get a bid from my house, I didn't want to be in a sorority, so I "suicided". Of course it worked out well, and I was given a bid. But I felt like if I put down another house, and was given a bid for them, but not my house, I would feel like I had settled for 2nd best.

Well last year, a girl that went through really wanted us, but she put down another group as her second choice...well we didn't bid on her, but they did and she accepted. Yet she told me last month (she has been a sister of her sorority for A YEAR already) that she still wished she could've been one of us and that she liked her sorority, but liked us better. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/confused.gif This really made me think - should rush advisors be telling these girls not to suicide? I know they still are because my little sister has been a Rho Chi for the past 2 years and she tells them not to suicide. Does anyone out there have stories about their choice to (or not to) suicide? And was it the right choice for you? I'd like some input so that I can maybe discuss this further with Panhell. Thanks!

I think it all depends on how bad the rushee wants to be in the GLO. If she feels she can't put her whole into another sorority then she probably should just write down one org.

On my campus you are penalized for suicide bidding; the PX's make a point of this too. A couple of years ago a girl really wanted to join DPhiE, and we wanted her too. She suicided bidded and therefore was not allowed to join (which screwed us over too). But I think it's important to know that it all comes down to bids matching. It has nothing to do with whether or not you only put down one choice. If the sorority you want wants you then you're in.

Siobhan

I have to say that I really feel for the girl who accepted a bid from her #2 choice and to this day, still pines for her #1 choice. Sometimes the difference between #1 and #2 is not so wide, while at other times the gap in a rushee's mind between #1 and #2 is extremely vast. In some ways, Formal Panhellenic Rush really annoys me that as a rushee, you have to return to EVERY single sorority that wants to see you. I think sure, go check all of them out for one time only, but after that, you should be able to return to where you want to as a rushee. In my opinion, the way that Rush stands today, it is just a way for weak chapters to acquire extra bodies, and just seems really unfair to rushees and their happiness at university!

So many people seem to preach, "Give this sorority a chance". Gee, isn't it funny how "easy" it is for others to preach this line when they themselves got their #1 choice.

This is what I hate about formal rush, it not only can work against the sororities, but it can work against the girls as well, and that is not something we want. In a way I feel for the girl, but in another, I don't. She didn't have to accept the bid. She could have waited and attended a informal rush put on by the sorority she wanted and maybe have been picked up. On my campus, when formal rush is over, anyone who didn't get a bid, or didn't accept a bid can be picked up by a sorority so many days after formal rush is over. When formal rush comes around, we make it a point that there is no pressure here. If you don't get the sorority you want, you DON'T have to accept any bid. We do tend to look down on "suicides," but I think it's because they want the girl to be picked up by somebody, and if she doesn't get a bid, she will be disappointed, However, I think that if you really have only one sorority that you would consider joining, then by all means put that one down and no other. I think that it really shows how dedicated you are from the get go.



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What's a PX?

ZetaAce

PX are the letters that the Rho Chi (rush adviser) wears during formal recruitment. This keeps the prospectives from knowing what sorority she belongs to. They are also referred to as "Pixies".

Thanks! Now that prompts another question? Why would the PX want to hide what sorority they are in? Is it so that people don't think they are biased or what?

ZetaAce

The point of having PX's is to keep things fair. Like for our school, PX's are chosen in the spring semester (because formal rush is in the fall). The week after spring semester ends, the PX must take all letters and greek paraphanallia off her car, bookbag, etc. They cannot talk with their sisters on campus (even during summer classes) and especially not when fall semester starts up again. If they are caught speaking to a sister on campus then not only are they kicked out of the PX's, but the sorority gets fined. During formal rush, 2 PX's are assigned per group. The PX's are not from the same soro and they are in charge of helping answer prospectives questions, getting them to the right parties, and making sure there are no rush infractions during the party (for example, a rushee is not allowed to bring anything out of a party - we got fined once because we had confetti on the floor and some of it was on a rushee's shoe...of course the PX's were from rival sororities so instead of just wiping it off they had to go and write us up!) But not all PX's are like this - last semester we (and every other group) used candles (we don't have houses so all of our events occur on campus where it is against the rules to have lit candles) during a ceremony, so the PX just asked that we blow them out and no report was filed.

Anyway, the PX is your mentor during the rush process. She portrays true love for being greek, and the rushees look to her for guidance. They can't wear their letters because the rushees may feel compelled to join that sorority. Of course the opposite may apply - if the PX isn't very nice or doing her job correctly, that may bias the rushee against her group. Hope this helps!

Good topic!!!

I didn’t suicide, I put down 3 choices. My first choice was not only the one I wanted most, but the one I thought I was most likely to get a bid from. My second choice was a lot like my first choice, only larger. The 3rd choice was a really cool group of girls, but I didn’t feel like I would ever fit in with them – I’d never be pretty or well-dressed or popular enough. Any way, I remember waiting to get picked up at my dorm and thinking “oh $h!t, I hope it’s my 1st choice and not my second!” which it was.

I think I could have been happy in any of these groups, knowing they wanted me. But not everyone experiences that. We had a lot of girls in our chapter who had suicided, just because we were a lot different than the other houses and they would have felt hideously uncomfortable anywhere else.

If you are a sophomore or above, you’ve been around all the orgs for a while and know that there is only one you want and anything else would be a horrible comedown, then I would say suiciding probably is not an altogether bad thing.

But if you’re a 1st semester freshman and your whole view is based on what you’ve seen in formal rush, I would not suicide. A lot of formal rush is “show” and the one with the best show might not be the one that’s right for you.

Siobhan – I can’t believe they would penalize the girls and not let them join if they suicide. I mean it’s not AGAINST NPC rules, just “strongly discouraged.”

And Zeta Ace – re Rho Chi’s - yes that is so no one thinks they’re biased. Their whole purpose is to help the rushee do what is right for her (which is not always what might help their sorority).

Its not like this on our campus - if you put down QQQ as your first choice and JJJ as your second, and JJJ bids on you (but not QQQ) then you are obliged to wait one year before going to any rush parties (formal or informal) because you have to sign a form when you put your choices down that if one of them picks you, you are obliged to them. I know some colleges do this after signing a bid card, but not us. Once you put those 2 choices down, you are obliged to one of them if they choose you. Stupid, huh? Guess I should have clarified this! Sorry - but thanks for your input!

Formal rush for sororities never fails to amaze me...I can't imagine going through it, or even choosing a candidate (pledge) for my sorority based on this process. It just seems so impersonal! I understand that the matched-bid system works, and that's great...but it's not a mutual choice 100% of the time, is it?

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif Perhaps I'm opening a big can of worms here...however I do know that fraternity rush is not so structured, and yet it works for fraternities. Can someone explain the difference in rush protocols and procedures?

I have learned a lot on this board, that's for sure! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

The whole NPC rush process seems a little bit harsh to me, but that's probably cause I don't know much about it. I have heard people say the same thing about the NPHC procedures!

I'm guessing that you don't have a lot of volunteers to be PX's? I couldn't imagine being on campus and not being able to talk to my sorors! I'd probably go nuts http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Having 'neutral' rush advisors does seem like the smart way to do things though now that it has been explained. Thanks!!

ZetaAce

equeen -

Actually it really is 100% mutual choice - if the potential member chooses sorority XXX and sorority XXX chooses the potential member, that's all there is to it. When a chapter member tells a Rushee "I don't know why you didn't get a bid from our chapter, you were on our #1 list!" she's lying. If the rushee had been on their list, she would have gotten a bid from that chapter. Not only that, only the membership advisor and membership chair make up those lists and they are kept strictly confidential. The general chapter has no idea who was on the #1, #2 or #3 lists.

Not every girl gets their first choice, it's true. And many will be disappointed but I strongly encourage any young woman that has received a bid from her 2nd or 3rd choice to go ahead and accept the bid. If it really doesn't work out she can drop and wait a year to Rush again. If she doesn't accept the bid, she still has to wait a year. At least if she accepts the bid, she has an opportunity to really find out what that chapter is about. More often than not, the rushee finds out that her 2nd or 3rd choice really was the right chapter for her and is completely happy.

I'm living proof of that and make no effort to hide the fact that ZTA was my 3rd choice. I know now that had I gotten my first or second choices I would have not been happy because I was choosing them because I wanted to be like them. ZTA was more like me already and welcomed me as warmly as if I had listed them as #1. I was on their #1 list - seems they knew what was best for me from the start!

An intential single preference ('suicide') is a risky tactic. Please check the thread "can you outsmart rush" for my thoughts on that matter.

Take care,
Barbara

Hi ZetaAce - actually, on my campus anyway, people fight tooth and nail to be a PX. They don't have to come to rush practices during the summer (or 2 weeks straight before fall classes begin); they don't have to buy the tee shirts or other uniform (including a long dress for preference - which a lot of sororities require you pay for one that is made like the other sisters!); and they have a reason NOT to talk to their sisters that they may not get along with. Its like this in all GLO's that I know about on campus. One of our sisters (immature as it was) turned in her pin because another sister was chosen over her as PX! Stupid huh? I wouldn't want to do it because the amount of stress I would have to endure not being able to talk to my sisters. I do not like NPC rush - I think the first 2 rounds are VERY fake (especially when you consider that MANY sororities require their girls to smear vaseline on their teeth to keep them smiling all night!) All prospectives must go to all parties the first night, and the second night (because the sororities can only cut them if they don't have grades) so all you hear all night is "Where are you from? What's your major? Do you like the dorm you're in?" I much prefer the BGLO intake process that I've heard about from a couple of my friends. My AKA girlfriend said that she really felt important to them, and they to her versus a rushee who told me one night to "Cut the crap and tell me about all the wild parties!" I think there could be a better way on my campus (PLEASE remember that this is only what I know from MY campus so I can't speak for others!) I haven't checked out the rush forum yet so I'll move there to post on the topic...I'm still learning my way around! But I am glad you're learning from others - ME TOO! That's what this forum should be about! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

Panda said:
All prospectives must go to all parties the first night, and the second night (because the sororities can only cut them if they don't have grades) so all you hear all night is "Where are you from? What's your major? Do you like the dorm you're in?"

Barbara - I thought NPC's policy was that if you KNEW you weren't going to bid a girl you were supposed to release her as soon as possible? So as not to get her hopes up.

I agree, Panda - formal rush can suck out loud! But I don't know of a better way to do it. I think the guys should have to visit all the fraternities too, FWIW.

There was a similar topic like this. Since we had no NPC sororities on my campus, we didn't have NPC Formal Rush, and I'm was clueless as ZetaAce, and still not far from it http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif
I asked then, too, what was different w/ the fraternities (because it seems a lot less complicated), but didn't get much response.

I'd still like to know, because I think the 2 methods of rushing should at least be similar.

My 2 cents

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

Sometimes I wonder if the PX's are really doing their jobs. I've lost count of how many girls during formal rush ask me questions about suicides etc.
I generally tell the girls that if they know that they would depledge immediately, or that they'd be completely miserable in a particular house, then to not list them.
I don't say "Yeah suicide it's great and you'll get exactly what you want." I'm honest and tell them that a sorority could want you too and still not get a bid.
Part of the reason for that is because girls put down BBB as #2 then freak out and "depledge" on bid day. That always pisses me off because then nobody wins. The sorortiy loses both the girl that wanted them and the girl who got counted io their quota. And both rushees end up unhappy.
Of course I do believe that girls CAN be happy at their #2 or #3 choice. But if they never give the houses a chance it just sucks.

33Girl - This is the way it is on our campus - so it may not be the same for other campus groups. All I know is that we have had several girls that we knew we didn't want (nor any other group) because of her previous actions - I'm not saying "we just don't like her..." I mean like more than one sister has spoken privately to our rush board about reasons she doesn't meet our standards. Yet we STILL have to invite her back the second night as long as she has grades. We don't have to invite her back to our 3rd night (for us after the 2nd night we can cut, and the girl must cut one out of our 5 GLO's). Usually the girl will get invited back until the 3rd party, but then cut after the party before she is invited to attend preference. We do this to "keep things fair" for the girl and to keep rush a positive thing (supposedly). It makes me mad because a girl actually told me she just wanted to party and that they called her "Tequilla Sheila" at all the frat houses! Yet she came to all 3 parties and was cut before pref! Stupid, huh? Anyway, I don't know how any other campus does it, but this is how we do it.

My goodness! Why in the world would she tell you that they called her"Tequilla Sheila"!! That's just craziness!

ZetaAce

That's why she was first on our bid list...YEAH RIGHT!!! It was really (REALLY) funny though because several of our sisters had asked their frat boyfriends about her (but used her real name) and NO ONE knew who she was until one of the sisters described her and a guy said "OH!!! YOU MUST MEAN TEQUILLA SHEILA!!!" THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HER REAL NAME AFTER A YEAR!!!! I guess its more sad than funny. But prospectives that wait a year before rushing should know that this kind of reputation (especially when you tell it yourself!) doesn't get you a bid! The third night she got cut by every soro because she told everyone this!

ZetaAce - have you seen the pictures yet??? LOL! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

PandaBear> I saw the pictures! LOL!! Good idea!

ZetaAce

I thought that my NPHC pledge process was complicated, but after reading this board I am completely confused, but that is just probably because I am acustom to one way of thinking. Thank you everyone who posted on here for teaching me something new.

I just have to agree with ZetaAce that I would probably go crazy not to be able to talk to my sorors, and plus I can wear any of my clothes....lol.

But what works for some doesn't work for others and i know that the NPHC seems confusing to alot of people in GLO's

So once again thanks for teaching me something new.

A HUGE EDUCATION FOR ME TOO!!! Everyone in NPC and IFC thanks for sharing!


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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

Yes, if a chapter knows that they will not be placing a particular woman on any of their bid lists, that woman should not be invited back to the last night (Preference).

This is not a Panhellenic rule, however, and sometimes women do get cut from a list after Preference. What happens is that a woman may have enough votes from the chapter to get invited back, but on the last night there not enough of a majority for her to be placed on a bid list.

Barb

[This message has been edited by PnguinTrax (edited June 16, 2000).]

I am not a member of an NPC sorority but one of our sisters used to be... anyway, she said that you had to match bids exactly to be taken because its done with a computer... so if you put ZTA as 3rd and they put you as 1st list, at my school you would not have gotten in...
this is an example:
RUSHEE 123's choices
1st ZTA
2nd TriSig
3rd ADPi

ZTA's 1st list:
did not include RUSHEE 123

Tri Sig's 1st list:
included RUSHEE 123

ADPi's 3rd list:
matched RUSHEE 123's 3rd choice so she would go to ADPi

does this work like that at all schools?
my sorority has a non-selective policy, this means that girls come to rush and if they like us, they join, if not, they dont... it puts the pressure on us and puts US under the microscope instead of the other way around...

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GammaSigPrez...the rush at your school sounds a lot like the one at mine. Where do you go, and how large is the Greek System?

Actually this is the way it works...we'll use this preference list for example:

#1 CCC
#2 ZZZ
#3 AAA

The sororities have the following lists:

#1 - all their #1 choices in alphabetical order
#2 - other names, listed in order of preference

A chapter must try and complete their #1 lists first. If a Rushee on their #1 list gets a bid elsewhere, then they move name(s) up from their #2 list (and therefore become part of the #1 list).


The person reading the pref cards, announces that Suzy has CCC as her #1 choice, does CCC have her on their list? CCC says 'no'. The card is put aside and they run through all other cards.

They read thru the cards again and ask if CCC has Suzy on their #1 list. They say 'no'. The run through the remaining cards and place #2 bids.

The bid matching continues...CCC fills quota before Suzy name moves up their list. ZZZ has Suzy, but her name has not moved up to their #1 list yet. The third round starts. During the third round, ZZZ attains quota.

(Note: a gridlock/block condition can occur when, after serveral readings of cards, the rushee's preference does not match up with the fraternity. There is a system that is used to determine if the rushee will ever be placed with her #1 choice. If it is determined that she won't, they attempt to match the rushee with her #2 selection, and so on if it becomes evident that their #2 preference will not occur, either)

Suzy has AAA as choice #3 and it turns out that AAA has Suzy on their original #1 list. That's how you end up with a #3 choice on a #1 list. There is a system whereby you attain quota plus, but it is somewhat complicated and unless you really want to know how it's done, I won't list it here.

In the event that none of the rushee's preferences have bid her, BUT there is a chapter (or more than one) that has her on their list, the Panhellenic rep will call the rushee and ask her if she will accept a bid from the chapter(s) in question. If not, she will not recieve a bid and be eligible for COB (informal recruitment).

Barb

I go to East Carolina University in Greenville, North Carolina. The greek system? Do you mean just the NPCH, Panhellenic, and IFC? My sorority is not affiliated with those and neither is another service sorority and a service fraternity. There is a also a women's music sorority (SAI) and Phi Sigma Pi (a honors fraternity) that are known at my school. Then you have like the Beta Beta Beta biology honors group.. I guess you are meaning the "traditional greeks" (NPCH, IFC, NPC).. so this is what we have...check out this link... I just put it together... http://gammasigmasigma.tripod.com/othergreeks.htm

OOOPSSS>. I posted the original message as GammaSigPrez but i am on another computer and forgot my password... sorry for any confusion

I felt the same way when I rushed last year. I fell in love with one of the houses I prefed and would only pledge there. Unfortunatly, it did not work out for me, I got the 'wrong bid' I declined it and am rushing again this fall. I would recommend to 'suicide'for anyone who does not want to pledge at the other house.

Indy2000:

Are you still hoping to get a bid from the same chapter you wanted last year, or have things changed for you? The reason I ask is because my situation is similar to yours, and I also feel the same way---that a person shouldn't accept a bid just to join a sorority, instead that they shoudl really be happy with the decision they make.

PandaBear,

The rush process on your campus sounds exactly, and I do mean exactly, like the one on my campus. Girls are not allowed to join another sorority if they suicide, and that seems awfully unfair.

But anyway, every little detail you used to describe your formal rush, even the number of Rho Chi and how they are mixed and what now sounds like me old school. Where do you go to school?

BTW, at the time I put down 2 choices which was the max we could put and putting down one (unless you had been invited to preference night by only one) was suiciding. I thought I could be happy at either one, as I did not know the sororities very well and I did only know them from formal rush. But I realize now that I would not have been happy at the other choice. Thank goodness things turned out the way they did.

Princess2002:
I don't regret my decision at all, I did not feel like I could have contributed to the house that gave me a bid. I'm not deluding myself to think that I will get a bid from my number one choice. Luckily for me there are 16 chapters at UF and I would be happy at 8 of them.

You DO NOT have to accept a bid if you are not comfortable with it. If you choose to rush again and then pledge, the process will mean so much more to you. Good Luck http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I don't understand why sororities make the bidding process so difficult; it is so much easier with fraternities. If we like a guy, we give him a bid on bid day, if we don't like him, he doesn't get one. Plain and simple. You're just asking for disaster with a formal preference list, and all of the preceding week of mandatory rush parties seems pointless. perhaps it is just harder to get to know a sorority than it is a fraternity, due primarily to social reasons.

When I was pledging Angel Flight( a service orgainzation) their rush kind of work the same was as etienneSAI described. Rush I belives was two days, always held over a weekend. The first day was the getting to now the other people a brief explaination of the organization, perhaps a slide show,a few refreshments. The second day was the interview portion. After that the committe makes it's decsion and if you're selected, the group decorates your door. It's usually at the Candlelighting service.

tommy,

i totally agree with you. i completely envy the fraternities on my campus, because they're really straight up about things. no "i'll invite you to four days of rush but not give you a bid" kind of thing. i remember rushing and i wanted a certain sorority SO badly, but they dissed me on the third day. i dropped out of rush and ended up rushing and pledging SAI seperately. it was SO much better.

SAI's rush on my campus is awesome because since we don't go through panhell like the other sororities, we can kind of make things up as we go along. we don't have PX's, we don't "snap-bid", C.O.B, drop rushees or anything like that. we simply have three nights of rush, ask the girls to fill our pref cards on whether they would accept a bid from us if given one and meet after the last night.
we go to our advisor's house and order pizza, movies and whatnot. then we sit at the table and look over grades, academic honesty issues and pictures we took of the rushees, in case some don't remember names with faces. then we do a blind vote. this means we put our heads down and our advisor asks us to raise hands if we're for or against a rushee. majority wins. if it's a very close vote, we'll discuss reasons for voting the way we did and later vote again. i think it's an awesome way to vote. we call the girls the next night and let them know either way, then while the pledge mom and her helper talk to the girls, we go into thier dorms or apartments and decorate thier doors.

all in all, i'm very pleased with my rush process. very democratic and honest.

etienne

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"red is the color of music and has been since the very earliest of times. the caps of faeries and musicians are well-nigh always red."~*~w.b.yeats

I just want to say that when it comes to deciding where you feel at home then it shouldn't be all that confusing. I went through formal rush my freshman year with the girls on my floor. I knew where I wanted to be by the second night. I knew I was home when I walked in the door. I suicided on Bid Night, and I got a bid. I love my house tremendously.

One of my floormates that I was close to went through with me, when she heard me talking about how much I loved this particular house she suicided also. Telling me how great it would be for us to be sisters. However, things didn't work out for her. Three days later she was snap-bidded on by a struggling chapter on the campus. She accepted, and went through pledging and initiation. Two months or less afterwards she de-activated. The point of this story is that she didn't care what house she was in. She just wanted to belong. Her and I are still friends, and she realizes now that she only joined any house, because she wanted to fit in somewhere.

The moral of this, and my advice. If you are unsure, don't sign your bid card. To me your letters are forever. You are forever a sister of your house. So, you should know where you want to be, it shouldn't be a big hoping and wishing thing. If you don't get in to the house you like then chalk it up to not being meant at that time, and rush again. Don't settle, you'll never be completely happy.

Could someone explain to me what a snap bid is? I'm a little confused. Thanks. :-)

I agree ... this is a great topic!! I actually attend the same school as Siobhan, but I have a bit of a different take on the suicide bidding thing ... Rho chi's are told to discourage PNMs (potential new members)from suicide bidding, & to inform them about the risks during the matching process; However, I don't know about suicide bidding being penalized here at our school (University of British Columbia (UBC)), or understand what indeed happened with the situation a couple of years ago. The reason that I say this is because I myself did indeed 'suicide bid' successfully.

What I can tell you all is how scary it was to wait for what seemed like eternity to see if I would get the dreaded phone call. When PNM are not extended a bid at our school, they are contacted before they show up for Bids Day. When I didn't get that phone call, I still wasn't sure ... it was torture waiting all night & day to find out for sure!! But in the end, it did work out for me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/redface.gif) Sadly, I know that it doesn't always turn out like this.

My best advice ... follow your heart, but don't be too quick to cut out a sorority & potential sisters that could very well end up being the right choice after all (if that makes sense).

I swear that I asked everyone as I went through Rush - how will I know which one is right for me? - and the answer was always the same - "you'll just know." And they we're right.

Best of luck to everyone during rush & be sure to keep us posted!!!