Reverse Racisim, is there such a thing?
 

I read this disturbing article this morning on the USA Today website. I know that racism lives in everyone's neighborhood, but this article truly is appalling.

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Man shoots three in NYC; hate crime alleged

NEW YORK (AP) — A heavily armed black man allegedly shot three people and tried to set fire to patrons at a trendy Manhattan wine bar before he was overpowered by two women and arrested — capping a bizarre outburst of violence that police said was racially motivated.

Steven Johnson, 34, was wounded by officers before being charged with attempted murder following what marked the latest in a series of violent crimes in downtown Manhattan.

He was carrying three loaded guns, 153 rounds of ammunition and a samurai sword when he approached four white people walking in the East Village on Sunday at about 2 a.m. and told them: "I have a problem with you," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said.

Johnson shot one of the men, Jonah Brander, in the upper body, followed him as he ran to the door of the bar and shot him again, police said. Johnson then entered the bar and ordered up to 40 patrons to the kitchen, police said.

Shoji Iso, a 54-year-old Asian man who owns a store next to the bar, heard the shots and peeked in, and Johnson shot him in the wrist, police said.

He then allegedly forced a woman to start putting plastic handcuffs on the hostages while he sprayed the crowd with kerosene and fired occasional shots at police cars outside.

Witnesses told police that Johnson was "ranting about white people and vowed revenge for thousands of years of suffering." Johnson said that he was having "fun" and that "a real man chooses when he dies," Kelly said.

After Johnson pulled out a fireplace lighter, Annie Hubbard and Ann Margaret Gidley, both of Manhattan, tackled Johnson, and he shot Hubbard in the leg, police said.

Gidley, 23, told the Daily News that she knew she had to act.

"It was do something or die," she said. "I didn't think it was time to go yet."

Officers heard the shots and stormed the bar, grazing Johnson in the head with a bullet and taking him into custody 45 minutes after the ordeal began.

"Those two women did the right thing, a very important thing ... they were very brave," Kelly said.

The violence came just days after a burglar broke into two apartments in the Lower East Side on Wednesday and shot three people to death, including an 86-year-old man and his 88-year-old wife. In April, a man was shot in the face during a robbery attempt in Greenwich Village.

Police said Johnson, who has AIDS, apparently wanted to be shot by police or to die in a fire, and left a suicide note for his 10-year-old son at his apartment.

Johnson was charged with attempted murder and criminal possession of a weapon. He had not retained a lawyer; he was in stable condition at Bellevue Hospital Sunday evening and was unavailable for comment. There was no telephone listing for him at the address provided by police.

The three victims were also taken to Bellevue. Brander, 28, of Fort Lee, N.J., was in serious condition Sunday; Hubbard, 34, and Iso were stable.

Johnson had been despondent since his wife died in March, neighbors told investigators. He has an arrest record dating to 1985 that includes weapons violations, larceny and drug possession.

Police who searched his Brooklyn apartment said they found a note taped to a wall that said, "Tell the boys in blue I won't be easy."

When I read the section stating that 2 women tackled the gunman and brought him down, I was amazed. What courageous women! :)

Can someone explain to me how this article is about REVERSE RACISM?:confused:

This reminds me of Colin Ferguson shooting nineteen and killing six people on the Long Island Rail Road in 1993.

It seems to be more a case of mental instability (illness) than anything else.

Come on......
 

Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
Date: 1936
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
- rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective



Main Entry: hate crime
Function: noun
Date: 1989
: any of various crimes (as assault or defacement of property) when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation)

What you have here is a hate crime. People are really stretching for examples to demonstrate reverse racism.

I don't know about reverse racism, but I think that incident qualifies for a hate crime.

Please excuse that above post if you read it, I only skimmed through the article and replied, on the first time.

Re: Come on......
 

Thank you Observant1!

This story is indeed sad because it seems to me that Johnson just wanted to die, either via "suicide by police", by fire, or via the justice system (dealth penalty). Johnson was crazey. plain and simple. How can anyone in their right mind leave a suicide note for their 10 year old son to find! This man needed some help a long time ago. :(

You are right, it probably just should have been racism and not reverse racism. I guess if an incident is whites on blacks, blacks on whites, hispanic on asian or indian on pigmy....its all racism, and is wrong no matter what.

What is pigmy? :confused:

Pyg·my also Pig·my n. pl. Pyg·mies
1. Greek Mythology. A member of a race of dwarfs.
2. also pygmy A member of any of various peoples, especially of equatorial Africa and parts of southeast Asia, having an average height less than 5 feet (127 centimeters). Not in scientific use.

No, i don't think this article is about racism, but moreso a hate crime.

whata do you think the HATE part of this HATE CRIME is motivated by if not race? He just actually hated those particular individuals whom he'd likely never even seen before? No, I'd venture to say that there is a quite a bit of racial motivation with him having gone up to a fellow and said.."I have a problem with you....boom"

And thank-you for rectifying your word choiuce SXGuy...because I agree....Reverse Racism does not exist...racism is backwards and forwards...and every direction at that.

let's see...you can have hate crimes based on gender and/or sexual preference as well.

what in any of that would lead you to believe that these individuals attacked was based on gender considering it was a man shooting mostly men, or regarding sexual preference? He approached a group of white people and tried to kill them.....I bet the HATE was motived by his disproval of their hairstyles, cause I can totally see where it would be race....and thank you PM mama...I would hope all reading would agree....there are different standards, and it's BS and I cannot understand how some people are blind to it

Why is this such a pressing issue? Incidents like this are pretty rare.

When was the last time you were a victim of racism? And how?

I am so sick of people pulling any old example out of the air and trying to call it REVERSE RACISM!!

If I (a african american felmale ) were to shoot a white women, iplease explain to me how that reverse racism????????

Reverse racism are things such as a white couple being denied a home loan because they are white, it is when a black bank decides to "red line" predominately white neightborhoods (meaning that they will not approve any loans for properties in that neighborhood), it is when a white person goes into Neiman Marcus and is CONSTANTLY followed around by a black sales associate and the stores black sercurity staff......those are REVERSE RACISM!!

Although a hate crime and reverse racism are TWO DIFFERENT things, both of them are not ok.

FOr those of you that think this is REVERSE RACISM, how do you define a hate crime?

So that is racism? Ok, let me understand that now name-calling is racism? PM Mama, let me understand that you think its reverse racism because if you had called them a black b*tch and they would have beat you up? *lol*
What would you call it if you had beat them up?? Just regular racism?

PEOPLE, so folks are truly confusing the terms HATE CRIME and RACISM. Please re-read Observant1's post with definitions of the two.

It's wouldn't have been racist if she beat me up or if I beat her up. But callin me a f-king white bitch is a racial slur. Racism goes both ways, as well as with ANY race in the human kind.

It seems to me that this is more of a man who was despondent about life: he has AIDS, his wife has recently died (most likely of AIDS as well), and he is a dad to a child who might have it as well. I see this man as tired of being victimized as a Black man and sees white people as the source of his troubles as well as the rest of the Black race. Yes he did go on a violent shooting spree but as it was said in the other racism thread: RACISM involves power. The only power the man had was that day when he had a gun in his hand. So his power was temporary and only had when he had a tool of destruction in his hands.

Instead of calling everything that happens that involves Blacks and whites racism, how about posting it and talking about how our society is deteriorating.:confused:

I would have called it "Defending myself"....and someone who throws $hit on my window deserves a good $$-whopping.

I knew that posting this thread was probably a bad idea, but I guess something that just happened in the past 24 hours, still cannot bring people to one common ground. Racisim and hate-crimes cannot be justified....at all. It just amazes me how people try to make these wrong things right...by the color of skin.

PS, if someone says the "N" word, they're racist, right? So yes, name-calling has always been an act of racism.

Sounds to me like a pissed off Black woman. Just because she called you a white B**** does not make that a racist incident. She was PISSED off. I can guarantee you she would have done the same thing had it been a Black person.

[Quote from PM_Mama
If this was a white man shooting at black men in a cafe or whatever it was, it would be racially motivated. I'm so sick of racial things bein different when the "black man" is the victim.]

What does this example imply?

[Quote from PM_Mama
Can I ask a question? How come when there's violence between whites and hispanics or asian or arabics, it's not considered racially movitated or a hate crime, but just violence?]

I have seen and read articles about incidents against other minorities and they have been described using references to their race, and are not just called violence. There are currently tons of articles out now about the increase in hate crimes against arabs or other people of middle-eastern descent.

And for the record a racial slur and racism are not the same thing. Both are equally hurtful, but the two words are not the same.

sounds like a hate crime to me, because hey.....they wanted to beat her up, and had she gotten out of the car, i imagine a punch or two would have been thrown.....but you know what? I bet you're the only person who has ever been right in your life.

Hate crimes have to have a basis......you have to hate something to commit a hate crime.....what the F do you think he didn't like about these people? These white people? Why do you think he hated them so much that he tried to kill them....I don't know....did you read the part of the article that said:
...or did you conviently miss that portion?
I bet that him hating white people for the thousands of years of suffering that most of these people may not have ever taken part in had nothing to do with the HATE that this crime was motivated by...I'm sure it was entirely incidental. Do you realize exactly how unreasonable that is? He basically said...I want to kill you because you are white it seems. This is not reverse racism....i agree. It's a HATE crime based on RACISM (there is no reverse).

i'm going to guess that you're referring to my reply to you. I was merely letting you know that there are OTHER TYPES of hate crimes, not just racially motivated ones. Whether or not they have anything to do with this story is irrevant as fas a my reply to you is concerned. Now, if you were referring specifically to this story, you should have made that clear.

Man I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here.

SigmaChiGuy, my point of all this is to say that please call things as they are. A hate crime, an act of racism, a racist person, are all distinct and SEPERATE pieces of an ugly puzzle that does not change from one race to another (anlthough some folks believe that it does). Again, please use the correct terminology.

Examples:

A Hate Crime : The Matthew Shepard incident

Racism: Country clubs that do not admit blacks or jews (they still exist today in 2002)

A Racist: The Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan


These examples can apply to any race, but yet, how would it be racism (which is based on power) if the Grand Wizard of the KKK threatened to beat me up if I cut him off on the freeway? What I am saying is that before we can really have a good frank discussion about this, we all need to be on the same page in regards to WHAT is WHAT.

Ok, back to the article as I said earlier, I believe that this was a hate crime, PERIOD.

now that's FUNNY...you cut these people off, although unintentionally, they followed you & you got cussed out. Just because they happened to be black and you happen to be white does not make that racism. Honey, that's ROAD RAGE. My guess is she may have done the same thing if you were black, but that's just me. I'm an equal opportunity cusser. Now if you hadn't done anything to them, that is if they followed you to the gas station just because you're white, i could understand u saying that's racism. But then, that would require that you know their intent, which you couldn't and that would also require some power to be involved (ie a black police officer) and there isn't in your account. They didn't know that you didn't intentionally cut them off, which is why you got cussed out, not because you're white.

You are wasting your time discussing this with SigmaChiGuy.

Really.

Honey, this one isn't even worth responding to girl. Let it goooo.

I am NOT getting involved in this thread, but had to point out.

Umm, this isn't you claiming to be a 'victim' of 'racism?

No one is putting words in your mouth that you didn't actually say.

Not our fault they didn't sound particularly intelligent.

Like I said, I an't getting involved in this one folks! ANyone who wants to discuss things can PM me, or IM me and we'll chat- Honeykiss, your PM box is full so clean it out girl! You and that PM box man!

I have to agree with PM_Mama. I have only once or twice known to have said things that have made people reevaluate their stance, but generally speaking many people think their all-knowing on THE WAY of Racism. I'm not saying I've ever been discriminated against due to be white....but I'm also not using slurs, giving disproving looks, or feeling otherwise negatively towards any person with skintone different than my own....If I can find this little article I once published in the school newspaper I will try...it summed up very nicely my concerns with racism...if not I'll summarize in a bit. But in the eyes of the general citizen...I am racist because I am white, I could have dated black girls, had crushes on black girls, cringed and defended racist remarks, donated to pro-black causes...but I am white, and thus a racist....and that disgusts me.

anyway...does anyone have ANY thoughts that counter the virtual axiom in my quote from the article on page two of this thread?

Are you serious?:confused: You are deemed a racist because you are white ?:confused: :eek:


Am I on the Jamie Kennedy experiment? :D :confused:


P.S. - I myself do not claim to be all-knowing on racism (but if you think that i am - thanks!). I go according to what the words mean. If you don't like the definitions, I suggest you go talk to Webster about it.

Ok....to commit a hate crime, one has to be doing it on the basis of a particular hate. Racism is a form of hate, so I suppose the man that shot the people (who were white, and undoubtedly his problem w/ them was their skin color) was a racist. A racist by definition is someone who believes that his race is superior to one or more others, and that belief is called...you guessed it! RACISM. While everyone has their own beliefs about other races, most of us are kind and reasonable enough to not share them. Flinging hateful comments at someone is not racism. But if you add their race (i.e. "f***ing white b****) that is racist. Why was race important? A black white asian arab or pygmy can all cut off other drivers the same. I personally think the young woman (I won't say lady because she didn't behave as such) who threw food and then the insult was racist. Race doesn't have to be an issue. It just becomes one when people make it one.

There's no need to defend yourself if you've done nothing wrong. Everyone has opinions & I gave you mine.

I do understand what you're saying. I just want you to see the other side of this. by the way, how is calling you a "white bitch" a racial slur? now, has she called you a "cracker" or a "honkey" i could understand. but she called you a bitch, & a white one...you are still white, right? I'm not saying that what she did was right, I'm just saying that it was motivated by you cutting her off, but if it makes you feel any better, your being white probably didn't help matters any.

Let me clarify.

Anytime I speak of racism with someone, they will roll their eyes despite good points I make...why, because they are the expert having been born black...they maybe have had no real incidents in their lives and I should hope not, but they are inheritantly right no matter what. That is not just the case here in KY, that is all over our mecca of open minds here on GC as well...

Are you saying, that if she called her a "black b*$ch" back, she would not be a racist too? Not in todays PC society....sorry, but PC America wouldn't stand for that.....but, "White b*$ch" is okay. Such BS.