Bye bye to 5th year seniors?
 

Yesterday the University of Georgia announced that they won't be using the terms freshman, sophomore, etc., any more. Instead, they'll use first-year student, second-year, etc. This is because they want to discourage students from staying on extra years--the university is terribly crowded. As one administrator put it, "We have done much too good a job of making UGa and Athens a warm, welcoming place to be."

The university is so determined to send students on their way that fifth-year undergrads (and beyond) will register last--after the freshmen! I had no idea it was such a problem!

What do you think?

I don't agree with trying to weed out 5th years - At UBC and I believe other universities in Canada, more and more students are taking 5 years to finish their 1st degree (me included). In fact at UBC you have up to 7 years to complete your bachelors degree. I think doing a 5th year is beneficial as it allows you to complete more courses, get higher grades, work, be involved in other activities, etc. If you want to get a decent job in Canada you have to go beyond 4 years of post secondary education and taking an extra year can be very helpful in getting into a masters program, professional school, etc. I don't agree with penalizing 5th years at all.

On a side note Canada has never used the term freshman, etc. It has always been 1st year, 2nd year, etc.

I read this in the paper this morning, and I agree with it. Is it really that hard to graduate in four years (In the United States, it's expected, I know in other countries like Italy, it's more like 5-7 due to the difficulty of the curricula)? I know that there are some people who have mitigating circumstances (family/personal problems, health emergencies, major/interest changes, financial situations) that would require them to take longer than the usual four years, and I don't think they should reap the negative consequences (being last in parking lottery, etc.). Just the kids who have the money, etc., and are just "living large".

How is that supposed to get them out faster??? If they can't get into required classes because they are last to register, it's going to take even longer for them to finish.

Actually it shouldn't be TOO much of a problem, fifth year seniors usually have only 400 level classes left--which frosh and sophs wouldn't really be registering for.

Thanks for bringing up this info, carnation. First I'd heard about it. Quite frankly, I don't like the idea of 5th year seniors registering after freshmen one little bit. And I also don't like the idea of UGA rushing people through the curriculum.

It took me 5 years to graduate, and it had nothing to do with liking the school so much that I wanted to stay. On the contrary, it had everything to do with the fact that the administration had courses set up so that it was practically impossible to finish all required classes in 4 years.

Some upper level classes were only offered during one quarter each year, which meant that once that class filled up you had to wait another whole year to get in. Many students were left twiddling their thumbs taking waste-of-time courses like underwater basketweaving while waiting for a spot to open up in their final one or two required classes. It was ridiculous and extremely frustrating for both the seniors and their parents who were footing the tuition bills. Unless school administrators change the course schedules, it's going to be very hard to "rush" students in and out of school within a four year period.

From what I read, which could be wrong, that fifth-years and beyond get lowest priority not in registering for classes, but for the amenities of college life, like parking spaces and season football tickets.

I heard this on NPR yesterday. I think it's a bit wacko to "punish" 5th year seniors.
The report also stated that Ga graduates students at the rate of a little more over 4 years-- the US averages out to more than 5.

i think its a good idea...at sdsu it is unheard of to finish in 4 years...this place in so impacted. i know many people who took 5+ years.

You have got to be kidding me....
 

Man, if UH-Manoa did that, I'd be isht outta luck! I'm going to be a 6th year SUPER DUPER SENIOR this Fall!

True, most people won't have to register for 400 level classes unless you're a Junior/Senior and you NEED to take those classes...but at UH-M, the distribution of parking passes is determined by your registration date. It's on a first register, first served basis.

I think that UGA and other colleges and universities that have overcrowding issues ought to either admit fewer students or offer more classes or both. Mandatory summer session or study abroad can be other ways to combat overcrowding and help complete a degree in four years.

I am working on my 2nd undergrad I wonder where that would leave me??lol

I think they'd be better off limiting the amount of freshman they allow into the university rather than punishing the students who take longer to graduate. A friend of mine works full time so he can't take as many credit hours. He is now going onto his 6th year as a senior.
With my boyfriend's major, it is impossible to finish on time. Some classes are only offered once a year and classes are so hard that it's impossible to take more than 15 hours a semester (Chemistry).
Where does that leave the students who are working on a double major?

I was a fifth year senior too!

Carnation - Did Georgia Southern say the same thing to you they did to the parents in my orientation? They said that "college is no longer something that can be completed in 4 years." Now how does that work??? UGA punishes 5th years, but other schools in the system are saying over 4 years....

BTW, by going every summer except my Freshman I was going to finish in 3.25 years, and there were many QUARTERS I only took 15 hours (3 classes - minimum for being full-time). That's before I transferred and took a year off....:rolleyes:

Cream - The Florida system has gone to 1 mandatory summer term. It has reallly helped.

Boo, UGA, boo!

Believe me - there are very few people I've known who stay in school just to avoid the real world - it does cost money after all! Yes there are people who hang out in the town and still live a "student existence" without going to class, but that is another story.

carnation - didn't you say UGA instituted some kind of free/reduced tuition program to keep students in-state? Seems it was a little too successful.

On the opposite side of this, St Norbert College in De Pere, WI has instituted (or was talking about instituting) a guarantee... if it takes you longer than 4 years to finish your degree, they will pay for the rest of the time! No tuition! Granted there are stipulations, they'll only pay for it if it's their fault you couldn't finish in 4 years (classes you needed were full or unavailable, etc) but still... that's sweet! :cool:

If schools want to eliminate students taking more than 4 years to graduate, then they better be prepared to shell out the bucks for more staff......I could have graduated on time if every requirement for my major wasn't always closed out by the time I was allowed to register. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to get the classes you need when you need them. Of course, this also means that schools going this direction will probably raise tuition......

When I was a senior applying to colleges, I did not apply to the big state schools in Oregon because the information I got from them said it was impossible to guarantee graduation in four years due to difficulty getting into classes. Uh, no thanks!

Where I ended up going, getting into classes wasn't a problem - the worst thing anyone encountered was getting into a section at an inconvenient time. Nevertheless, a lot of folks took five years for what I think are perfectly valid reasons:
-co-op their junior year (we had a lot of engineers)
-double degrees in disparate field (systems engineering and English, for example)
-they were part-time students

Of course, I do know folks who just took forever ... one guy took six or seven years, and one of the impediments to his graduation was this math class he had to take about four times. He kept flunking not because of a lack of brains but because he never, and I mean never, went to class. I can see why universities might want to discourage this, but in general if students are taking five years, it is because of a perfectly valid reason. And if that reason is that the university is screwed up, they shouldn't make the students suffer!

I'm guessing you're refering to the HOPE scholarship. Anyone that graduates with a 3.0 or a B average (this can differ as with my high school a 80=C) from a Ga high school gets free tuition to any state college in GA. You have to keep a 3.0 though!

The HOPE Grant pays your tuition, as long as you keep a 3.0, for--I think--126 semester hours. Thus, the people who are staying more than 4 years are probably financing their educations in other ways except for the part-timers.

AOII Brandi, it seems like Georgia Southern did say something about school taking more than 4 years at the freshmen parents' meeting. With this many children in college, Mr. Carnation and I are hoping it won't!!!!

My brother is at Georgia Tech right now, and he was told flat-out when he registered that it would take him about 6 years to graduate with a civil engineering degree. My parents weren't shocked. After all, they had already seen me go 5 years. I think most schools in Georgia will tell you that the idea of a 4 year degree is pretty non-existent in the state now.

I think GT is particularly bad. They don't seem to schedule enough classes-- delaying everyone getting finished "on time."

I'll be starting my 6th (and final thank God) year in the fall.

I've changed my major 3 times. I was probably 1/2 done with a business major and decided it wasn't for me.

I'm a better well-rounded person because of it and feel I'll have a more well-rounded education than most people graduating with a corporate communications major.

I thought the reason that most people didn't graduate from Tech in 4 years was due to co-ops. When I was thinking about Tech for undergrad, that was an issue--that co-opping would add AT LEAST an extra year to my time.

It seems the large Southern state schools have the biggest problem with 4-year graduations. I only know about five people who graduated from UF or FSU in four years--and that includes summers or larger loads. Where I go, you're out in four years--it's impossible NOT to have the credits, because if you're behind at ANY point during your time, you're placed on academic probation. The only way you can extend it is if you've done the 5-year plan for Master's work.

I agree with you, ktsnake. This will be my fifth year (although I only need one more quarter, so it's more like my four and 1/3 year). I changed my major THREE times, from engineering, to pre-med, and now I am the fuzziest of fuzzy majors-Sociology:) How this happened, I do not know-one day in was in this class dealing with race and relations, and I LOVED it!!! I got an A, so I said "This is for me!". What will I do after college though? Either law school or biz school, or working retail! :D "Will that be cash or charge?" See, I'm ready already!

If you look at transcripts of people that graduated 20 years ago they didn't require near the number of courses to graduate. One 'well rounded student' proposal through your congress or the state board of regents after another is the main reason that we are in school so much longer these days.

I was able to finish in four years (could have been 3.5, actually) because i had an assload of advance credits. 8 hrs spanish, 4 hrs french, 3 hrs history, 6 hrs english, 3 hrs physics, 3 hrs 'tard math. So basically I was a sophomore before I even started. LSU has a program called Spring Testing where HS seniors planning on attending and that have a certain ACT score (25+) can come take the placement tests. Thats how I got my language, math and science credit. The rest came from AP (I rocked the english language test - go me!). So i had very few general ed requirements to mess around with.

My boyfriend had much less advance credit than I did (he didn't take as many languages in HS, or AP tests), and he nearly didn't graduate in 4 years. Stupid "well rounded" general ed crap kept him from getting a minor in computer science, with his major being electrical engineering. He was going to try and do the minor but it wouldn't fit with all his general ed stuff. The school refused to substitute a 3000 level programming class for a 1000 level psych class. Its so stupid. He was asking to get credit for an easier class after taking a much much harder one. So he just gave up the minor and finished in 4 years.

Actually, a lot of my friends finished in 4 years. TOPS (similar to the Georgia HOPE grant) was a great incentive - after 8 semesters the money runs out!

Hmm... thinking back, I think the only reason I was able to get through school in 5 years (combined bachelor's/master's program, plus a minor) was my AP credit. A LOT of people take an extra semester or two to finish.

This isn't quite the same thing, but I knew a guy with a serious case of "perpetual student syndrome" - it took him somewhere around 20 YEARS to do his doctorate. :eek:

Ktsnake, you turkey! We did too have to do the same amount of courses 20 and 30 years ago!

As a matter of fact, I got really mad when I looked to see what horticulture majors have to take at Auburn now. Back in the day, we had to take math through calculus, chemistry through organic, and a bunch of botany courses that were really hard--the prerequisites were organic and several biology courses. Now they have such an easy curriculum..arrggh!:mad: I would've had a 4.0 if that's all I'd had to do!

I forgot all about my AP credit! Thanks for the reminder aephi alum. I was able to exempt 3 courses as a freshman due to my AP classes in high school. If I hadn't done that, I'd have been in school a quarter longer. Yikes! :eek:

Like OTW, I was a Super Duper Senior finishing out my undergrad degree in six years.

My deal was this:

- I spent 2 years studying for admission to the Physical Therapy program before the university decided to get rid of the Bachelor's degree and make it a Master's program.

- I putzed around for a semester as a pre-nursing major trying to figure out what to do.

- I lost some focus when my mum passed away halfway through my time in college.

- I had to take extra classes when I finally picked my new major, Human Development.

- I sometimes had difficulty getting into my HDEV classes because many of them are interdisciplinary courses. Several HDEV courses are on the general ed list and thus I had to compete against non-majors to get into my own upper division courses. Finally, just before my last year, the department made a policy that said that HDEV majors get priority over everyone else.

For obvious reasons, I do not agree with the idea that 5th year+ students should be discriminated against because of their inability to finish in what some administrator deems to be an "appropriate" ammount of time.

By the way, at Long Beach State, all senior students regardless if it's the 4th, 5th or 6th+ year, get priority over freshers, sophomores and juniors.

Heh...I applied to a Master's program at Long Beach State - it is 3 years long! Let's see, 6 years + 3 years = 9 years. Ick. I turned that down to go to England where my program will only be 1 year long. Hrm...I wonder why I picked England... :)

......Kelly :)