Local-bashing
 

I've been following the various threads on the MTV "Sorority Life" show, and there have been some accusations of "local-bashing" going on... sort of a "look at those locals, messing it up for the rest of us" attitude.

I write this as a member of a national sorority whose chapter was once a local sorority - so I've seen both sides of the local vs. national thing.

National GLO's have a number of rules and regulations in place regarding things like hazing, alcohol, etc. If a brother/sister breaks the rules, s/he answers to a standards board. If a chapter breaks the rules, the chapter answers to nationals and may have its charter pulled. So a chapter of a national GLO is, to some extent, a known quantity.

Local GLO's don't necessarily have these rules in place. This seems to be the crux of the "pro-national" argument. Some locals haze their new members, some locals have no restrictions on alcohol use, and that does make the greek system as a whole look bad - particularly when the average Joe on the street doesn't know the difference between locals, regionals, and nationals.

However, what I think some people in national GLO's are overlooking is that a lot of local and regional GLO's do have such rules. A local will hardly pull its own charter for breaking them, it's true - but individual members who break the rules would be made to answer to a standards board just as if they were in national GLO's.

In some cases, locals have even stricter rules. Example: My local sorority prohibited members from wearing letters or other insignia anywhere that alcohol was being served. That meant we couldn't wear letters at a restaurant with a liquor license, even if none of us were drinking. It eliminated the gray area of "How do I know that that sorority girl is really drinking coke and not rum and coke?" but it also meant we couldn't take people out to lunch or dinner during informal rush.

To address the "Sorority Life" issue specifically: Sigma AEPi isn't any less of a sorority because it's a local, or because they have 4 Greek letters in their name instead of 2 or 3. I'm sure these are fine young women and represented their sorority as best they could. But I believe their decision to participate in this show was ill-considered - especially knowing that MTV tends to take things out of context and to focus on partying as the most important thing in life. I'm hoping (as are the Sigma's, it seems) that MTV will include a portrayal of Sigma's philanthropy work, academic program, and other positive aspects of greek life, but I still strongly suspect MTV will be focusing on the parties and the guys, because that's what gets the ratings. I guess we'll find out on the 24th.

Very well put, aephi alum. Like I've said in other posts, the MTV issue is definitely not a local vs. national one. There are good local chapters and bad local chapters, the same as there are good national chapters and bad national chapters. 'Nuff said. :)

I agree totally.

I'd agree with what you said Aephi... However, as with NPC and NIC groups you have a few bad apples that can spoil the barrel (the barrel being the way that outside groups view us).

The majority of us view locals that we are not familiar with as outsiders and therefore automatically will associate any local stereotypes in order to draw a picture of what we THINK you're like.

It's a tough boat to be in. With no central command structure and no shared set of rules each and every one of your local groups are ambassadors for eachother. The local group at my campus is going to be the way I see most other local groups. That's where I think people go wrong many times.

LHT
Kevin

I didn't feel like more than 2 members were saying that "Look it's a Local giving us bad PR, go figure".

Most of us don't look down on locals, I think what alot of us were trying to say is that one chapter of one group that happens to be local and not affiliated with any NPC groups will cause the NPC groups negative PR and that was unfair.

I too was in a local that became national. But the average non Greek doesn't understand the difference and it even if the difference was in a disclaimer it wouldn't matter.

Did anyone read that post about using stand ins? Why would they do that and/or the group agree to?

This topic is making me very mad. Everyone who is bashing locals is not informed about them. You are all making stereotypes of them like people not involved in the greek system would think of your sororities, doesnt it hurt you when people make stereotypes about you? You cant judge all locals the same way, each of them is very unique and has it's own sets of rules just like every NPC sorority does. Coming from a local sorority, I know that we would never do anything to make the greek system look bad, but we try hard to improve it and make it stronger. My particular local follows the rules of the other NPC sororities on campus. We do not haze and when it comes to someone breaking the rules, which has never happened, but if it would, we would make sure they were disciplined in a proper manner. We are careful about where we wear our letters so we do not get a bad reputation. I like to think of us as equal to all other sororities, just because we aren't national doesn't mean anything, we were started for the same basic reasons that NPC's were started. I would just like ask everyone who wants to bash locals to think first and think about all the stereotypes made about your groups and about the greek system in general. We greeks need to stay together to make sure that the greek system is portrayed in a positive light.

Locals don't have a monopoly on mistakes, and inter/nationals don't have a monopoly on excellence. Unfortunately, most locals don't have the benefit of a larger governing body to assist them in decision making. Perhaps, locals need a more involved alumni association to share the wisdom of their experiences and help them avoid making decisions which will jeopardize the future of their GLO.

I Started in a Local
 

My chapter of Tri Sigma started as a local (I'm a founding sister). To put it very simply, there were pluses to being a local, but more minuses (IN OUR CASE, I'm only referring to my case here). I am glad we were chartered with an International NPC organization. It's totally a personal preference. Some like being local, so they join a local. I chose to join a local that had a goal of becoming affiliated on a National level...

I also started a Local but with the idea of affiliation with a National!

I dont know if the Nationals on campus looked down noses as severa members of the House I was booted out of and members of others helped us get on campus!

But in our first formal rush, we got no new pledges! No Soroitys would do run outs with us, going out on Group gatherings!

One of the guys was dating a Tri Sigma who we mad our Fraternity Queen and then they started going and recognizing us!

ADP did to but they were the worst house on Campus for Soros but # 32 is married to a very lovely lady and unfortunatlly ADP is gone!

I never look donw my nose at a local as you never know when it will come up and bite you in the butt!

I call it the wheel of life! It keeps going around! One day you are on top and the next oops you are on the bottom!

Some days your the dog and some your are the fire plug!:D

Is it fair when an affiliated NPC groups do something that causes negative PR for unaffiliated locals?

The real question is , who is causing the negative PR?

If you check out fraternal news groups you will find that most of the problems are caused by national organizations. I would estimate it is well over 90%.

Now, who is making who look bad?

To all of you who have come out and showed support for locals, I wish to personally thank you SO VERY MUCH.

As I have stated on some other posts I've put up, my local has been around for 100 years, and this is something I am very proud of. :cool: :D :D :cool: At one time there were 3 KRX's, one became a Chi O, the other went defunct and we stayed as a local. My sisters, past and present, must have done something right if we're still here....

And correct me if I'm wrong, but in some way, shape or form, wasn't every NPC, NIC at one time a local and/or one chapter? Just like people in national orgs. say, every chapter of every NPC, NIC is different, well so is every local. You can not generalize us.

Myself, I have respect for all locals and nationals, why, because in a way I'm related to all of you because we're all Greek. Just something to think about.

I know that there are plenty of good locals--for instance, I've heard good things about the ones at the University of the South and Mississippi University for Women--and I try to keep those in mind. It's just that my personal experience has been with the totally out-of-line ones like those at the University of Hawaii and the infamous 3 at the school where I teach (those of you who missed hearing about these jewels should read the thread about "What Do You Think About this Weird Rush?")

It would be great if they could all be as stellar as some of those we hear about on these boards!:)

Well, perhaps that's because 90% of the groups in the US and Canada are nationals. The problems are proportional to the amount of national groups.

OMG, I actually learned something in my stats class.

Aceofdimnd,
I think the problems with locals is that most of them are people who dont follow the rules. Its great to hear ur local is following the NPC rules, but alot of them dont. I think we need to intergerate a system that all locals and nationals all follow. I dont care if ur local or national, we all need a common ground. It makes me mad when locals have different rules to follow, and cant be involved the same way that nationals can be. Lets just get the system together as a whole because when it comes down to it, its not the letters that matters, its the experience that counts. And when locals are hurt by those locals who dont follow rules they are losing out on the experience.
One set of rules and rights for all greek orgs- no matter local or national.

Just my thought!

Well I don't see any of the ethnic or multicultural sororities joining NPC anytime soon, associate memberships maybe. The same with fraternities. If I am not mistaken, isn't Kappa Alpha Psi the only Afr. Am fraternity with IFC membership. There is more to the national/local thing than meets the eye.

shultzz: 33 took the words right out of my mouth...

I have been in a local....anyone listening. And I know both sides, but when the general public thinks sorority, they probably think NPC. They are widely known b/c they have chapters all over the nation and some in other countries. So, yes a local has potential to send bad PR our way and yes it can go the other way around, but when you have such a large NPC system that is what peolpe associate with sorority.

When I went to school I didn't know the difference and the average person doesn't know either. But NPC groups are all under similiar guidlines and standards, so it is difficult to be judged by a local's behavior b/c it isn't under the same governing...

We ran into the same thing on campus, we didn't have policies in place for drinking and no risk managment policies and it is hard when we are not all on the same playing feild.

It's not bashing...it's the truth. When we were local we were very aware of the differences and loved that about us, we never thought it was us against them and complained about it. We dealt with it and decided to move and become national b/c we saw the advatage...that's not the case for all and I understand that but we don't all have to be the same to get along.

you are right
 

You are absolutely right, but that only supports my point. If the majority of the problems, are caused by nationals then how can someone make a comment, "locals are making nationals look bad"?

Who is making who look bad? The group with less than 10% of the total, that is causing less than 10% of the problems or the group with over 90% that is causing over 90% of the problems?


I am being very generous when I attribute 10% of the problems to locals. Over the past few months I haven't seen ANY major violations by locals listed on fraternal news groups. I probably missed something but the groups that are making you look bad are the national fraternities, period.

Alfred student found dead.
Wake Forrest U. fraternity and animal abuse
Michigan State fraternity suspended over hate crime
Auburn fraternity and racism
Oregon State student falls from fraternity
U of Washington student dies after fall at fraternity
Syracuse U fraternity brawl leaves student in coma
Syracuse U fraternity brawl # 2
U of Michigan greek fround dead in fraternity house
U of Miami pledge dies
U of Md pledge found dead at fraternity.
SDSU. 3 pledges die
U of Minnesota student raped at fraternity.

These incidents all involved national fraternities.

Dont even try blaming locals for making you look bad. Locals aren't angels, but nationals make locals look bad far more often than locals make nationals look bad.

Re: you are right
 

The fact that there is a larger number of problems being caused by national groups as opposed to local groups is because there are more national groups than locals. It's a proportional difference. That's not to say that national groups are worse than local groups.

You've made posts before that suggest you are anti-national GLO. I don't know why you feel this way, but I really wish that you would think about things as overall Greek issues instead of local vs. national issues. The main thing that we should all keep in mind is that there are ALWAYS going to be some irresponsible people out there that make the rest of us look bad. Whether they are local or national isn't the point because the effect is the same regardless of their affiliation.

Well by saying that because we make up 90% of the population of Greek Life is and therefore are the cause of 90% of the problems might just have some truth.

That of course is a VERY disproportionate way of looking at it. If 1% of the population causes 10% of the problems you just MIGHT have an issue with that 1%.

(not that I've seen anything to even suggest that I'm just pointing out that the previous argument doesn't hold much water)

If we go with the assumption that 1% of the population is causing 10% of the problems, then 90 % of the problems and bad PR are still caused by nationals and for anyone to imply that locals are making nationals look bad is crazy.

There is also a possibility that the 10% of the population(locals) are causing only 1% of the problems.

Re: Re: you are right
 

I didnt say I was anit-national. I didnt start this thread. I was just responding to the individuals that were blaming their problems on locals, even though most of the bad PR is actually generated by nationals...

Shultzz, you're not seeing the whole story here.

Look at it this way.

If there are 100 locals and 10 of them start a problem, then 10% of the locals have created a problem.

If there are 1000 nationals and 100 of them start a problem, then 10% of the nationals have created a problem.

The number is the same.

You're missing the point shultzz is trying to make here (which is actually valid) . . . Let's say:

10% of locals create problems, resulting in 10 problems (your math here). 10% of nationals create problems, resulting in 100 problems.

By your own math, there's TEN TIMES more problems for the national houses - and what shultzz is saying is that if 90% of all problems are created by nationals, maybe the blame for negative image should rest primarily on those creating the largest NUMBER (not percentage) of problems. Regardless of if these are proportional or not, the inferrence is that the majority of the blame for negative image can be tagged to the people making the majority of mistakes.

What shultzz is saying, I think, that blaming locals for making greeks look bad is sort of like blaming green M&Ms for making candy look bad - I think that's seeing another side of the story, rather than missing the whole story, dzrose.

I disagree. The percentage is the same but the number of problems and bad PR is NOT the same. I think the "100" problems caused by nationals is larger than the "10" caused by locals.

Using your own numbers , how have the locals given you a bad rep any more than you have given them a bad rep? The nationals have caused hell of a lot more bad PR than the locals.

Eternal words of wisdom...
 

From my stats professor herself --

"Figures don't lie, but liars can figure..."

This thread is making my head hurt.

I think what shultzz is trying to say is not against the statisitics - of course nationals will cause more probs than nationals, simply because there are more of them - but that a lot of people right away assumed (for example) when a local was picked for the MTV project "Oh my God, a local with no rules or regs, they will make us all look bad!" and that those people would have not automatically assumed that if a national was picked.

I am against that completely and there are people on here who did it.

But as far as incidents in the media, unless you have a clue about the Greek world, ANY bad incident makes ALL Greeks look bad.

KAY and IFQ are the only 2 NPHC organizations with membership in the IFC.

First of all, I've never said that locals have given nationals "a bad rep".

All I'm saying is this: when you have a large group of people compared to a small group of people, then you're going to naturally have more problems from the larger group as a result. That doesn't mean that there are more troublemakers percentage-wise in the national groups compared to the local groups. It simply means that there is more of an opportunity for problems to occur due to their sheer size.

Just like a town of 2,000 people is going to have a smaller crime rate than a city of 20,000 people. It doesn't mean the town is any better than the city. It just means that there's less room for error.

That's fine... I'm all for blaming the people who are making the mistakes for their actions. All 110 of them in the theoretical case that I presented.

But shultzz is pointing the finger squarely at national GLO members and blaming us for the majority of bad PR. Well, if you go with shultzz's view, then you also have to remember that with those 100 nationals who cause problems there are also 900 nationals who didn't. That's a lot of innocent people to point your finger at.

You also have to keep in mind that the sheer size of nationals allows them to do more positive things than locals. So, it all weighs out evenly in the end. Local and national orgs have good points and bad points, but they're all equal when it comes to Greek Life.

Once again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record: the issue is NOT local vs. national. It's stupidity vs. responsibility. There are plenty of immature people acting the fool in Greekdom, local and national alike. So instead of acting like one group is better than another, why don't we work together and see about making things better?

Re: you are right
 

Whoa! what U of Michigan Greek was found dead in a fraternity house????? This had to of happened years (more than 5 actually more then that) ago, because when I was on campus there was NEVER a greek found dead in a fraternity house.

Re: Re: you are right
 

It was this year. I will Pm you the details.

The true crux of the problem is not Local or International, but having Greek Letters!

I know as a local, we followed or led many things on campus in the 60's! No Hazing, No Alchol on the premises!

Locals do and will fowllow what ther National Greeks do in most cases, maybe not all!

Locals are a smaller % of Greeks and Internationals are the Largest % of Greeks.
The smaller the % and the time something happens the % is is higher. In the same token, the larger a group and looking at the % then that % is smaller!

I think that as Greeks, we try to hold our Ideals to a higher Standard than non Greeks, one and all, Local or National!

We are trying to prove ourselves better, more involved, better grades and what ever!

I agree with you here - I was just trying to clarify where shultzz seemed to be coming from, b/c I feel it to be an important and relavent point for those of us in (inter-)national houses.

In the end, we must deal with our problems on an individual basis, and blame does nothing to help.

Shultzz

Thanx for the info. Check your PM cuz there was definately a big mix up in the heading that leads you to think that in the story ;) Even the article says different.

Every time you self-righteously bash locals, God kills a kitten.

Please, think of the kittens.

I'm in a local and I have a kitten. If you bash my local, does that mean God kills my kitten? :eek:

Are there any more ancient threads that you want to bump today?

No, Russell isn't a troublemaker, he just tells it like it is. Some people can handle it, some can't.

Let's see if you really are willing to admit when you are wrong. You were all to quick to use the search engine to revive a several threads in a very short period of time, but you did not use the search engine to review my posts. Aside from the gdigirlfriend posts, you will have a rather difficult time backing up your allegations that I have such a pattern. In fact, you come off as rather flippant in those posts where you attempt to be serious. If you do (and I doubt you will) review my posts, you will see that I have some of the most insightful, as well as some of the most frivilous posts on this site. I have no pattern. But then again, maybe I'm not the one who is a troublemaker.