Line names and Numbers
 

dzsaigirl: In another thread, you stated the following:

"What I do not understand is why some chapters insist upon using "line numbers" and such, when it has no significance in APO. I don't want this to sound wrong...I just don't see why you need to do that when it is not part of what the organization even recognizes?"


As a Brother of Alpha Phi Omega, certainly you realize that our Fraternity is immense, the largest of any Greek lettered organization. We also began our existence steeped in diversity, from a mixture of Greek and non-Greek, multiple faiths, Mason and non-Mason, etc. We had chapters at Black colleges before most of the United States desegregated. In fact, the chapters at Howard U. and Catholic U. in DC could ONLY have joint dances at the Jewish Community Center because they were the only facility in Washington at the time that would allow blacks and whites to socialize together.

Now, understanding Alpha Phi Omega's committment to diversity, and realizing how large we are, I hope you can see the flaw in your statement.

Firstly, you said "What I do not understand is why some chapters insist upon using "line numbers" and such, when it has no significance in APO."

This statement is actually correct. Line numbers do not have a significance directly to the history and ritual of the national fraternity. However, because some chapters have adopted this tradition, it BECOMES part of Alpha Phi Omega's traditions. You do not have to adopt them for your chapter or force those traditions upon your chapter's future pledge classes. But you need to understand that these are the traditions of certain chapters and that rather than criticizing why we "insist" upon having them, understand that we do have them and you don't have to.

Next, I will tell you why my chapter has line numbers. We pledge in lines according to height. Not every chapter does this, but mine has ever since nearly the beginning. And so you'll know, this was NOT a tradition borrowed from Black Greek Lettered Organizations. My chapter was heavily influenced by a Foreign Service Fraternity and an ROTC Fraternity, both of which pledged in lines also. Not every Brother in the chapter claims a line number, but those who do find an extra bond in the fraternity. True, you have your big brother and possibly members of your family tree, but your NUMBER is special, too. It is just another way to identify with Brothers. Also, it identifies us with members of other organizations. It's just recognition and fun, and it makes sense in our chapter and on our campus. Other chapters may have different reasons. We also don't look down upon chapters that don't pledge in lines.

Then I have seen chapters that use only their member numbers on their t-shirts.. . that's fine, as well. Some chapters wear gold boots when they step, others carry canes and staves. Some chapter don't have family trees. Some chapters have remained all male. To each his or her own in Alpha Phi Omega.

If every chapter was identical in our beloved fraternity, what a dull fraternity we would be.

Line names and Numbers
 

I really don't quite understand where DZsaigirl was coming from with her comments because every chapter has it's own traditions. While line numbers and names do not have a significance to APO they do have a special meaning to the people who use them. It's one of those things that you have to be in it to truly understand and appreciate it. Like for instance, I was the #2 of my line. I have a bond with ALL #2's, I think that they're the best:p . That's just how I feel. It takes a special person to be a #2.

But if you examine other traditions of chapters i.e. family trees, they have no direct relevance to APO but you didn't mention them in your post.

True
 

I agree with my brothers on this one. While I can't speak for the frat, I think those were good points...if you've never experienced something like this @ your chapter, it's hard to understand. A lot of Gamma Sigs don't participate in the lines and so on, but they also understand (I hope anyway!) that it's something that other Gamma Sigs do.

I'm a #7 for life :D So who ever is reppin for 7, no matter what the org, is cool with me. Same thing with when you crossed/got initiated...I was made in Spring '98 so I have love for my "sands", those who also were made in Spring '98. It's all in fun, really, and what Buffalo Soldier said, it's a way to identify with your brothers/sisters.

And, you may want to research a little more, too...because SAI does the same thing :cool:

Always in Service...

Wow. I find it unfortunate that I have been disrespected on this board! I came in with an honest question, and instead of simply getting answers, I am shot down...

As a matter of fact, we do not use numbers in SAI either. If there are chapters that do, I am unaware of that.

We are all here to learn. To ask questions. To give civil answers. All I wanted was to know why. Obviously, if someone asks a question, they do not already know the answer, and should not be faulted for their lack of knowledge.

In Leadership FRIENDSHIP and Service,

dzsaigirl

Now, THAT's unfortunate.
 

All we did was offer you knowledge and insight into our traditions that you said you didn't understand. You say you came in with an honest question, and I believe we gave you honest answers.

When Gamma Girl pointed out that SAI does use line numbers, I quickly went to the SAI national website within five minutes, found a link to a chapter that indeed has line numbers. We're not putting anyone down, we're pointing out a similarity to help you understand where we are coming from with our opinion.

Come on now dzaigirl, nobody shot you down. I think your statement could have been re-stated to look more like simple questions. Read back over your statements, they way you are saying it sounds more like you're debating the issue. And now you are coming out like you said nothing but "Why does your chapter use numbers? and what's it's significance?." The way you phrased it was like you had a problem with the issue

It's like me asking "Why do some members wear plaid letters? I don't see why some of the members feel they must place the fraternity letters in different colors when the official fraternity colors are royal blue and gold."

When I just should come out an ask straight.

Can somebody tell me why members place the fraternity letters in several diffferent colors?

However, you should feel free to continue asking questions, keeping in mind how you phrase the question.

Plaid letters
 

I personally am guilty of having a shirt with plaid letters. The shirt I have is black and the letters are plaid though the dominant color is maroon. I don't know why I guess I have so many shirts with my letters that I was looking for something unique. I know that the IFC and PHC chapters on my campus wear all different colors with their letters and some are really out there. I guess it is moreso to have an individualtiy within being the group b/c I know I got tired of being called "That Gamma Sig"
Notorious #4

Re: Plaid letters
 

Don't feel guilty, lol. . .we all need a change sometimes.

Plaid Letters
 

Until now I didn't think about it. Don't worry I don't feel guilty about it. I think maybe y'all should try on some plaid letters and see how they feel.

Hee hee
 

Go on soror, rock that plaid! :D :p

Actually I'm thinking about getting a black shirt with penguin fabric for the letters. I'm probably in violation :D LOL but it's a cute idea!

Penguin Fabric
 

Girl, that is a cute idea. Me and my soror just had our letters put on halter tops to wear to Atlanta. Here in Murray we try to be unique with ours because we LUV wearing the GSS on our chest.
Notorious #4
:D

Too "Big" for the Halters
 

A halter top! What is that? :p :D
That sounds cute, but errr...I'm a little too big on top for all that! I do need to get something made for the weekend though. I cannot be caught slippin!

Ooopsss!!!!
 

All those ideas sound great. We dont rock the plaid here at TSU but Vanderbilt does. In Atlanta we had all planned on wearing tank tops with the APO letters on the chest or elsewhere. Hope we dont get shot for wearing them. Kidding!!!!

Do Your Thang
 

Actually that sounds cute. I don't think anybody will kill you over that :D

I'm more of a t-shirt girl, so I'll probably get a shirt designed or something. I don't know just yet.

Maybe I didn't really have to go there on that last post :p But I was being honest!

I'm a big girl up top too so we had to get the letters a little bit bigger on mine so they wouldn't get lost in the confusion, ya know. I wasn't going to wear one but I figured WTH. But I know there are some bruhs in here thinking this is a little too much information OOPS!. The tank top idea is cute too I think Beta Sigma did that. Did you go to the Sip in 2000 when they had the pajamas made for the Pajama Party? They were cute too.
Notorious #4

Some of the Bruhs at GSU have Black and Gray Jersey which we where to distinguish our chapter colors but certainly not to offend or disrepect the franternity because we certainly know that it is all about the Old Glory Gold and Royal Blue

That Ace


Navigator

Where did this "chapter color" tradition come from? Who decide what the chapter's "chapter color" is? What other chapter does this "chapter color" thing? I know there is more than one, because I seen a whole lot of colors at the convention. One last question, is the "chapter color" tradition really meant to help a chapter stand out at conventions?

We have a chapter color...Royal Blue and Old Glory gold. lol:p

I do not know all of the chapters that have different colors for there chapter but our chapter colors are not predominate. The colors are not worn nearly as much as Old Glory Gold and Royal Blue which are worn most of the time. I am unware of the origin of the tradition to distinguish your chapter or if it is a tradition at all. More over I think that it is just a way to say what chapter you are from.


SKEET SKEET

Navigator

This thread may contain some useful info on lines and such

Ahhhh....I knew it was familiar!

That dardenr sure was a knowledgable fellow, wasn't he? I wonder what became of him.

Nothing much I'm sure. Nothing positive ever becomes of those types.
:)

I hear he was pretty hot. :D

Is there a 27 out there? I only manage to hear about one 27 and he was a recent pledge at NC A@T.

My chapter has never pledged more than 23.

The longer you are in the fraternity, you will undoubtedly meet Brothers from pledge classes of 27 and many, many more. But I don't believe you will find that most of those chapter necessarily pledge in height/line order.

So are lines/numbers more an HBCU/NPHC/Southern thing? The only chapters in the Midwest that I know of do lines/numbers are those which are almost completely african-american, and they do it because they see that's what the NPHC groups on their campus do.

Someone once asked in my pledging chapter if we would do names and numbers, and it was shot down with a quickness as most of the group felt it was too "social" and has some majorly negative connotations on many campuses. Of course, I was a pledge class of 38 (and we were a small class). My home chapter regularly pledges in classes in 50-70 person range.

My initial post explains that this is not just an HBCU/NPHC/Southern thing. My chapter pledged in lines nearly 30 years before the first NPHC members were on campus and it is neither an HBCU nor Southern.

I said "more", not completely. :)

Lines and numbers exist outside of the South, outside of the NPHC, and outside of HBCUs.

My pledge class was at first abut 36 but the final was 30 (including me). We don't have line numbers but we do have nicknames. I don't understand why this is such a big deal still after several years from the first post was made. Anyway, HEY RASHID!!! :)

And this is why I'm asking where it is more prevalent, since most campuses I encounter do not use the term "line", nor do they assign "names" or "numbers". Many of them see that practice as outright hazing because it isn't something in the pledging standards, others see it as something that belongs in the social greek realm and they are differentiating themselves from the socials.

APO is quite different in various parts of the country, and it's important to see and understand what may be OK in one chapter is not going to fly in another because it's not the campus/chapter culture. :)

I think it's more important for chapters that *think* it's not okay realize that it's just a difference and not a violation.

The same could be said of things such as big/little programs, family trees, and nicknames. These are things that are used by many chapters, but which there is no 'national policy' regarding them.

That's in the eye of the beholder. Assigning someone a name/number when they don't want it ceases to be a difference and enters into the realm of violation, especially if you can't tie the mandatory use of names/numbers to national pledging standards.

I'm personally not a big fan of them. I've seen chapters whose brothers spend more time focusing on what they're going to nickname their pledges than they do actually preparing them for active membership (you know, the reason we have a pledge program in the first place :) )

Well, I didn't need to get hazed to get my nickname. I think that it is a regional thing because there are other brothers I knew before I was a member that claimed to have "pledged" and "earned" their line names. Personally, I don't see a problem with having a name but I don't see where hazing comes in if the name is fitting to your personality (at least it is at my chapter).

Numbers and nicks...
 

I personally have no problem with numbers, while I think that simply the average height of men and women is likely to give more women "ace"s and more men "tails". Perhaps that leads to slightly different views as to "ace"s and "tails", but as of now I don't see a problem.

Nicknames are a different issue. Honestly, it annoys me when someone gets a nickname that not only would they be likely be uncomfortable telling their parents, the chapter would be uncomfortable having the list of nicknames published in the school newspaper. "Earth Mother" is one thing, "Super Pimp" or "Sex on every Beach" is another...

As best as I can tell, the only thing that an NPHC fraternity or sorority chapter does in terms of membership (that is acceptable to their national) that an Alpha Phi Omega chapter would not be able to do is make new brothers/sisters in 3 days.

Now in membership, there is at least one area where Alpha Phi Omega seems to emphasize the direct opposite from the NPHCs, having pledges be public in the fact that they are likely to be initiated into the fraternity in the near term.

Other than that, I haven't seen any objection from staff in the areas of Line numbers, nicks, probate, or stepping... (I'm sure I've forgotten something)

Randy

There is a simple way to address that. My Chapter has always given the pledge the right of refusing a nickname. This ensures they don't get a nickname they would object to. This is something I advocate when I do training on pledge programs.

True. However, if the university demands that a chapter do so, they can do so. (we have an 'alternate pledge program' to handle that situation).

And staff should be knowledgable enought not to object. I do see actives be confused by these things if they have not been exposed to them. Its thus important that knowledgeable Brothers (Advisors, staff) inform them about this so they don't think such practices are improper or the like.

True, but there needs to be the opportunity to object in private if the chapter's nicknames go that far. There is a lot of difference in the pressure if a big or the pledgemaster says your nickname will be this versus having to object in front of the rest of the pledge class and the entire brotherhood in a public ceremony.


Any examples of schools requesting that short?



There is still a great deal of culture shock. I'm not saying that Carnegie-Mellon (my undergrad chapter) and Howard University have the most different traditions in the fraternity, but I *am* glad that Lisa Covi explained some things to me ahead of time...

Not of any specific schools.

National Pledging Standards say a pledge program will run from 6-10 weeks, no more and no less. IF a school demands that their chapter's program be shorter, then the National Office has an 'alternate pledge program' to hand it. I have heard of chapters were basically all the 'pledges' are immediately made Brothers, and the APP is used to educate them in APO after they because instant Brothers. But I couldn't give you examples of specific schools.