New drug legislation...
 

Here in my state, they have now enacted a bill that says that if there is ANYONE caught in a residence with drug paraphenalia, the residnt of that dwelling will be evicted. This means that if your peeps are selling drugs, or using them at your spot, you will be packing up if they get caught.

This is just the general of it, I am not TOO sure about the specifics. If anyone knows more, or can correct if I made an error, please do, I am researching it as we speak.

As it is, based on the info that I do know, all I can say is our government is doing its job. It was designed to elevate a certain people while oppressing others. By initially filtering drugs into inner cities and then creating this harsh legislation to punish offenders (as they have been doing since they put drugs in the ghettos), they are slowly but surely decimating "minorities". Great job! :rolleyes:

Well, if someone knows what the law is and continues to break it, I hope that someone knows hows to make a cardboard box in to a 3-bedroom apartment.

Agreed. But looking at the bigger picture, do you think this is really just an attempt to rid our communities of drugs? Kinda ironic considering that the same government that is now trying oh so hard to "just say no" are the exact same ones who just said yes to tunnelling these drugs there in the first place.

Re: New drug legislation...
 

What State are you in?

Holla Back!!!:)

If you do the crime then you do the time. Do get mad at the govmt. b/c you got caught. And if you let your friends stay at your place or live with people who engage in illegal activities, do not get mad when you are drawn into their mess. Like my mama always said, "Becareful of the company you keep!"
Also, even if the govmt. did/is filtering drugs into the inner cities we all have a choice, DO NOT USE IT!!!! :mad: . I personally would have not simpathy for anyone who got kicked out of their place for such foolishness. :rolleyes:

You never know...
 

After saying all that, you must be an EXCELLENT judge of character. You can be as careful as you want of the company that you keep, and STILL get caught up. Because, contrary to popular belief, not all drug dealers are THUGS. And even if you are an excellent judge of character, a lot of people are not. And how do you know that their life was not threatened? Do you know how this game is played? Have you ever played with the justice system and the police? THEY DO NOT PROTECT YOU LIKE THEY SAY THEY DO!!!!! So how do you know everyone's situation in this? But you have no sympathy? The goverment is grateful for all who think like you. *Shaking my head*

I bet it's easy to sit up and say what you will and will not allow when a gun is not in your presence, and neither is the person who is not scared to use it. :rolleyes:

Re: You never know...
 

To add to that, what about the elderly grandmother who is keeping a child for the actual parents. Say this child is caught up in the streets and does a little something extra to support him/herself and Grandma. The cops, as always, gotta be all up in it, and whoops! Grandma is evicted! Let's play devil's advocate and go with the slight possibliity that Grandma DID know about this...in the projects, there is an EXTREMELY short list of resources with which you can survive on. If you believe in the American Dream (or rather the Horatio Alger myth), you are sadly mistaken. Sure, peope are happy to say "Look at Oprah! If she did it, so can anyone else!" Well. Oprah is how many people? In prisons are HOW many people? STILL trapped in the ghetto are HOW many people? Drug laws were designed specifically to do this, and they are clearly working. And if you are disputing whether or not our beloved government is responsible for the drugs being there in the first place, let me know. I will gladly break it down.

I used to live in Nevada, and I believe there's a similar law in Nevada. I had a former roommate who smoked marijuana, and the man who owned the house constantly railed at her because he was convinced that someone would snatch the house from him.

As a matter of fact, when she physically attacked me one night, the fact that I didn't want to risk my landlord (whom I liked) kept me from calling the cops. They surely would have found the roaches and other drug paraphernalia.

Re: You never know...
 

Now do not get me wrong, like I told Librasoul22 in a PM I am not some suburnanite who has no grasp of reality. I AM quite aware that not all drug dealers are not thugs. I know this personly as well as professionally. I am aware of the govt part in this. I am aware of our justice system or lack of it, and how the police work. However, like you said there are unfortunate situation where peole get caught up through no fault of their own and it is sad. Maybe I was too harsh, but I when I posted I had several people in mind, and unfortunatley innocent people would be involed. And to clarfy I have no sympathy for the offenders not the innocent victims.

Re: Re: You never know...
 

While the moral implications of your dilemma are quite striking and provoking, it is still against the law. You should be evicted from wherever you live for harboring such behavior. Yes it's sad for innocent people. Drugs are not only in the "hood", attending a predominantly white university, you learn that clearly. Drugs are everywhere. Yes they do tear down "our" communities. But dont they tear down all communities. It is unfair to believe that only "we" will be effected. I do believe in the American Dream. While it is difficult to attain Oprah status, status can be attained by hard work and some serious effort.

About the government and drugs.....ok, they are putting them in our communities. But is there a shortage of people selling them? Using them? Shouldn't there be some onus on the people who are not only bringing them in the community but distributing them to people as well.

My Point exactly
 

This is what I am trying to say. There isn't a shortage of deals nor users. They are not only in minority communities but in predominatly white one as well. Think about these drugs and who uses them. Esctacy, marijuana, Cocaine, Crack, Speed, Mushrooms, Acid, GHB..... I could on and on, but think about who uses them; yes, drugs do have demographics.

I don't know about you but when I see that list I see an elderly grandma raising two little kids getting eveicted b/c of her son, but I also see someone losing their $300K home b/c drug para was found there (that is if their lawyers have no effect):p

Re: Re: Re: You never know...
 

Drugs certainly are pervasive in our society. But just to kinda sidetrack and give you an example of the great disparity, take crack vs. cocaine.

Crack = rocks of cocaine mixed with other substances to make it impure, thereby making it cheaper; mostly found in inner cities.
Cocaine = pure powder form; mostly found in upper class, affluent areas.

Crack? Puts user in jail for years. Cocaine? Look at Robert Downey Jr. :rolleyes: And this is the norm, not just one instance. Please, it is no match. Same drug, racial disparity.

It will be the same thing for this new legislation. Do you guys REALLY think that they are going to punish the $300G lawyer like they are punishing the project dwellers?! PLEASE! Be realistic!

As far as the American Dream, let's compare it to the American pasttime...yeah, there are some people hitting the ball and running the bases. There are a select few who hit out of the park home runs. And there are some who DON'T EVEN KNOW THE GAME IS BEING PLAYED. Feel me?

For some it is not a choice of whether or not to sell the rock to get the new Jordans. For some it is a choice of selling the rock or not eating that night.

The people in the ghetto would not be distributing the drugs if they had not been put there in the first place to distribute. Look deeper.

Why is there only one Oprah, one Bill Gates? Why does only a small percentage of America have the entire countries wealth? Consider it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: You never know...
 

This is an interesting discussion. I'm enjoying it a lot.

I understand the disparity between crack and cocaine. Yes it's not right. Ok so what are we going to do about it ?

For those who Don't know that the game is being played, who's fault is that? And what are we going to do to let them know that there is a system that can be beaten? I also wonder why people dont know the game is being played. Some would say education, but that's a whole other topic.

The moral dilemma of drugs for food is compelling. However, I tend to wonder whether the people who sell drugs to buy food also go and buy themselves something nice and get a makeover. So does the argument about food justify selling drugs if the seller purchases material items having no relevance to their ability to survive. Clothes=necessary to survive, Jordan=$150+=not necessary to survive. Feel me?

Looking deeper as suggested. I still wonder about why drugs are being distributed in such high numbers in our communities. I wonder why placing something somewhere implies that people have to move it around. What if people decided not to sell them? Wow, what a concept.

Consider this....if there were no market for drugs in inner city communities, would people/the government still place them there? Laws of supply and demand can apply.

It's not that I feel like people in inner city communities should be tarred and feathered for their actions. I do believe there are wider societal problems at play. However, when do these communities begin to accept their role in their problems. By contributing to it, it's difficult to place all the blame on the government or other ethnic groups. The main point of this post is that inner city communities should take responsibility for their roles in their neighborhoods. Maybe the new drug legislation wouldnt' be in effect if they did

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: You never know...
 

Some very valid points were made here. It is one thing to say you sell to survive and another to buy Jordans, Mercedes and platinum. If you did it to "help" your family out you wouldn't be standing on the corner all day long during work hours. Also once you made about $1k in that first week and for some that first couple of days you would be okay for awhile. But that is not the case. Dealers whether they are in the inner city or somewhere else are doing it for the money, and lots of it. When you see someone you you who sells and they have a $600 diamond crusted ring or watch or chain or their body, I don't know about you but I do not think they are hungry.

And as for the whole selling drugs in the first place it seems to me that some think it is okay to sell to help put food on the table. Is it really? There are quite a few people who have lived in the ghetto and have moved out by doing less than desireable things i.e. cleaning houses and mopping floors. The problem is some people do not want to do that selling is a whole lot easier. Fast money. You can't blame the govt for something you help perpetuate. Why are malt liquors, 40's and other things of the likeonly sold in certain neighborhoods, b/c they buy it. THe same with drugs. If a dealer goes into a neighborhood and tries to sell and he gets runned out the community he can' t sell there. It may have been astruggle some may have lost their lives, but it worked. Maybe we think of inner cities, ghettos, and projects are a filled with people who do not know the system, can't go anywhere else, and are helpless. But they are not. They can help themselves, there are resources out there to help them, but they have to go out there and find it. They way the govt works, if you do not use it you lose it, and holds true for programs aimed at these people.

kitten03, I am enjoying this discussion as well. It does, however sadden me to read both you and Riley's points of view. When I said look deeper, I didn't mean to look at the present. I meant look at the root of the problem. Right now, drugs are being sold in the inner cities, people are stuck in the ghettos, okay. But WHY? I think we have already established that. Keeping that in mind, it is extremely hard to simply ERASE a state of mind that has been carefully manufactured to those in the inner city. Just like racism as a whole. IT is still HERE. It is still PREVALENT. The only difference is tha it is more covert. Same thing with oppression. Why don't some people know the game is being played? Because they are not privy to that information, BY DESIGN. I am sort of uncomfortable that you guys are blaming the inner city for "perpetuating" all of this. Yes, indeed, some are seeling drugs to own the designer fashion and to have the best cars and jewelry. Yes, some people DO have the mindset that they can't be anything more than what they are right now. But I am telling you that through media, the school system (ever been to a school in the ghetto? Horrible.), and nearly every other avenue, these people have been given the idea that they are not good enough and never will be. For those few who make it out, more power to them. But it is going to take more than a minute to earse the mentality that has been firmly entrenched for so long. And who is responsible for that (putting it there)?

Is that what.......
 

You are talking about? Well that is a whole other level. That mentality which affects or way of thinking, how we view, talk to, treat each other has very deep roots. Of course the school sys., the govt prgrams and scociety contribute to the self-limiting ideaologies those environments have. How, they don 't teach pride for your race, your heritage or any such thing. When you watch the news what do you see. I have a friend who grow up in a not so good area and I asked why didn't his mother, who is married school teacher move out into a better neighborhood. He said how with what money. Now I do not know her finances but he wasn't on the same page as me. Look for something you could afford, sell and go to a better neighborhood. I am a single indiv. who made a lot less than his parents but I bought a house. Why is that? B/c they we percieve our situations. I was raised never to let anyone think thay are better than you, do not owe anyone anything, and strive for the best no matter what. Unfortunately not everyone has that kind of upbringing. His perception was we couldn't afford a big fancy home like the rich people. Who said you have to. When you are on one end of the stick the other end looks very far away. Some people do not have the ability to see what is in between. Some might look at Oprah and say i can't be her. So what try anyway you might fail and have a house in the suburbs with your kids in private school. BUt the self-limiting way of thinking is very deep rooted. How to fix it all, that is beyond me. I have a started with my friends by getting them to think beyond their upbringing and realized they can acheive more than what they see. And belive me somethimes it is a hard thing to do.

I'm a little confused. I'm not blaming the inner city. I am questioning the people's role in the degeneration and regeneration of the inner city. What is the "all this" you speak of? No one is questioning the plight of oppressed people. However, this is not the subject of the post that you began. I'm addressing the issues on a drug related scale.

Now as far as the "these people" you speak of, I was one. What is more pervasive to why people do not succeed has not as much to do with the media but with those you surround yourself with. You see people around you failing, you believe you will fail. You see people around you succeeding, you succeed. Self Fulfilling Prophecy . Yes the system of racial bias and degradation has and will continue to play an active role in the perceptions of people in their abilities to succeed. Nevertheless, mentality should never be used as a means to justify illegal behavior. You believe you can't succeed so you become a criminal. Hummm....

And to say that people are not privy to information by design is extremely problematic. Are the people designed improperly or the information? When you say people are stuck in the ghetto, I worry because that implies that there is no way to get out. Which is, I believe, to be untrue. What upsets me about your posts, not to be mean :) , is that it appears that "these people" have no control over their own lives. People have choices on whether they want to have children, use drugs, live where they live, work etc. Shouldnt they have a choice and role in revitalizing their communities? Removing drugs should be a community effort.

Okay...
 

So one will get evicted if he or she or a family member is caught doing or selling drugs in a goverment housing project...

Does that include those people who are borrowing from a loan agency off an FHA or VA loan?

Or does that include those persons who reside in military housing?

:confused:

Or why don't "they" just paint the law as it is? One based on discrimination and will not be implemented across the board... If you do it for the projects, then you do it with those persons that have government based mortgage securities and reside in military housing...

And I can tell you, the military housing in my city has just the same amount of problems as the projects do!!! They do many thangs on ship staterooms and bachelor's officer quarters... Hmmmm....

Um, can I get an 'Amen'!
Personal Choice trumps all cards played.


Any person who enters the drug game KNOWS that the consequences of his actions will affect everyone around him. If he chooses to ignore those consequences, and everyone loses a home, then he has no one to blame but himself. True, enough, we own no ships or planes to bring in the product, but we must also own up to the fact that some of us do not have a problem with it because they choose the drug game as a livelihood. That, to me, is the deeper issue.

When, we own up to making wrong choices in life, and when we stop playing the blame game and accept the fact that there are penalties for wrong actions, then we can talk about who else may be at fault. If a drug dealer lets his gramma get evicted, then that is the burden the family must bear for poisoning its community. I do not know many people in this situation who do not have at least an inkling that something is amiss.

Maybe now, family members will lose the lethargy and become proactive when a fellow family memeber is obviously breaking the law. In a separate forum, I said that as a person in the ghetto at some point you realize that you will have to work 2, 3 or four times as hard as the next man. If you choose not to do that, then, you cannot blame anyone but yourself.

Re: Okay...
 

EGGGGGGGGGG-xactly! This is what I have been trying to get at all this time. The law, as are all other drug laws passed in the US, aimed at oppressing minorities. Plain and simple. My point is that those in the inner cities have a choice, true enough. They have been GIVEN a choice. The drugs have been placed in the ghettos, and mentalities have been formed. Now they have a choice. It isn't irrevocable, but it is gonna take a VERY long time for folks to realize their choice and eradicate this way of thinking and this way of LIFE.

Re: Re: Okay...
 

I AGREE!!!!

I am sure they cannot wait to put more people of color in jail. They are only looking to search certain apartments/houses of people of certain SES and racial backgrounds.

THEY ALSO PLANT DRUGS- WHATS TO STOP THEM FROM PLANTING THEM IN YOUR HOME!

THAT LAW SUCKS!!!!!!:mad: :confused: :( :mad:

Wait...
 

Hypothetically here:

If I fought in Special Forces as an enlisted man for this US of A and one of my battle wounds is a metal plate in my head--and I have severe neurological injuries which results in my inability to do meaningful and logic-related work, but I look normal???

So the headache pain medication the VA prescribes me costs a $$$$gazillion dollars not to mention the required psych care they OWE me for my military service--Why is it wrong for me to seek immediate pain suppression for ~$20 worth of crack since I can't AFFORD "Neprazol"--a $400 a month perscription? My pension is only worth that much from a country I defended???

:confused:

Just asking...

Where's the blame go/
 

It seems to me if the government, any government not just the US, makes Act A illegal, then shouldn't those who perform Act A be punishable for their crime? I am not a fan of our government or our judicial system, but it's time to put the blame where it belongs. If you sell drugs then you deserve to be punished for your crime. If you allow people to sell drugs out of your house, you deserve to be punished for your crime. If you allow people to use drugs in your house, then you deserve to be punished for your crime. Point blank period.

I have known many people who started out in life dirt damn poor. I have known some who put their noses to the grindstone and made a way out. And, I have known some who decided to help oppress their own people by selling drugs. There are plenty of other alternatives to addicting your own people but some are just too afraid to work hard for what they want. In my grandmother's time, black people were much poorer than they are today. How many blacks in their 80s and 90s do you know who sold drugs to move on up? People were getting high back then too. And, how many elderly blacks do you know who cleaned houses, cared for other people's children, or "drove Miss Daisey" so that their children could go to college? A whole lot more isn't.

It is my opinion that the black community often acts as enablers to these "hustlers." Whenever Andre or Hakim gets arrested for selling crack, we holler about how it's the government's fault for putting here in the first place. When does it become Andre or Hakim's fault for selling it to his own people?

We need to start holding ourselves to a higher standard. When we start letting our children know that we won't accept such behavior, then it will cease to exist. I think it's about high time that we made examples out of those who commit such heinous crimes against our own people. For once, I would like to hear somebody say, "Andre is in jail because he sold crack. He was wrong for that and it's nobody's fault but his own."

Re: Where's the blame go/
 

The poor will always be with us and we will always be responsible for our brothers and sisters... We are truly our brother's keeper... I may have worked my ass off for my "Father"--but "He" still killed the prize calf for "His" other wayward son... "He" said to me, that I will have everything "He" owns, but "His" son was lost, but now is found...

Who are you to judge so harshly without compassion? He who has not sinned, may he be the first to cast the first stone...

Addiction behavior has no logic to it... It is something that we humans do. The United States unfortunately criminalized it because it was too afraid of what happened to "its" woman and "her" generation--if you know what I mean...

Moreover, the Biblical text is plenty a fraught with what would now be considered "hallucinogens", "barbituates" and are illegal--"Cover me with hyssop", "Balm in Gilead", "Frankencense and Myrrh", "Annointed me with oil and wiped my feet"... Hyssop is a hallucinogenic herb, the Balm of Gilead is sap from a tree that has highly calmitive effects. This tree was given to the King of Solomon from the Queen of Sheba... True frankenscense and myrrh are spices from trees that grow throughout the Middle East and Africa. Their chemical properties are thought to cleanse the room of foul odors... The oil that Mary Magdelene used was one only reserved for kings and royalty. It added to the effects of reflexology permited when one washed feet. The oil was priceless and extremely difficult to obtain. If sold on the black market, one could make millions of dollars--so to speak. That is why Judas Iscariot cursed Mary Magdelene out for breaking that bottle...

I feel sorry for the people that use drugs. Even drug dealers use them sometimes. I remember the Go-Go tune from the UnCalled For Band--"There's no mistake for the neighborhood life... That's why I get high... To ease my mind..."

Dayum, if you are in the privacy of your own home and you had a hard day and choose to smoke pot, 'cuz you cannot drink alcohol--then what is wrong with that? Just because our Government decided that it is illegal, doesn't make it right... Our founding father's Declaration of Independance, Constitution and Bill of Riots--I mean Rights show that if I wanted to ease my mind with a little something-something and I ain't hurting nobody--then hey, I outta be able to do what I want... It's my body...

Now, pregnant crack addicts--I dunno. Chemical Substance Abuse won't be answered in this forum...

Some of you all are missing the big picture. On one hand you are saying I do not agree with everything the government says, yadda yadda yadda. But on the other hand you say well, since the government makes it against the law, it should be enforced. Which is it? Abide by the government or don't?

I do not condone selling drugs, nor do I condone using them, to a large extent. However, I do believe that it is bass-akwards for the US Government to use first manufacture drugs into the inner cities and later create harsh legislation against drugs as a tool for oppression.

When considering the drug problem on a whole, do not think about individuals (that's what is wrong with this nation now), think about the commUNITY at large.

It's not that we are contradicting ourselves, but if something illegal don't do it. If you choose to do not be mad at the consequences. It is similar to being the black sheep of the family. Everyone looks for you to get into trouble and when you do there are stiffer penalties. So why deliberately put yourself out there?

The same in this instance. If minorities are disportionately incarcerated, sentenced to life and death sentences, and subjected to higher scrutinty be the the law........why put yourself at risk to take a fall. I am sure we all know that this legislation will be aimed at poorer neighborhoods, but that is more of a reason to try to curb drug activites in your communities. If not then these neighborhoods will futher crumble.....How?
Ex. there is a neighborhood with lower middle class housing. This legislation is in effect. As a result several houses are now vacant. The houses are foreclosed and it takes six months for paper work to go through for the houses to be sold. The houses are sold lower that it is worth bringing down the values of the other occupied houses in tge area. Some people move out, some stay further damaging prop. values. The value of the overall community drops and and another community starts to go downhill.
Selling and using drugs may be a way of life for some but not for all. For those who choose otherwise teach your kids values, let them see there is more out there. Yes, the ghettos are designed to keep people there but you do have a choice to want more, and it starts when you are a child.

Re: Wait...
 

You have a good point here. What the solution? Govt. reform. Before people have to get to that level the US has to take up the ideologies of other countries. Have universal Health insurance for everyone, but that won't happen b/c it is big buisness. The govt does not do anything unless it benefits itself. That even goes for its"own" people. There are many people who take illegal drugs for a variety of reasons. A lot of drugs have similar effects to regulated drugs. But just remember there are consiquences.

Individuals make up communities. Therefore, things must be examined from the inside out. Inside communities, there are people inside people there are issues etc. Somehow I dont wonder if these individuals are thinking about the community when they sell or use illegal drugs.

You are right that individuals make up a physical community... And communities are composed of ideas moreso than the people who reside in them...

In no way am I a legal expert. But some laws are made to be broken when the spirit of the law is unsound. It was the law that forced my Afrikan ancestors to be enslaved... It was the edict by President Lincoln, nullifying the official enslavement of Afrikans...

The incarceration rates are increased for people of color for a reason... The reason becomes quite explicit when you re-read the 14th amendment of the US Constitution...

Not everyone does wrong who is imprisoned. Some people are political prisoners--and that depends on your definition and interpretation... Look at the psychology of OJ Simpson. If he was any average Joe, he'd be the first bruh in the cage. But 'cuz he was a superstar and SOME folks found ways to pimp him off and make money, if he lived in jail, the "golden goose" would dry up...

Besides, have any of you EVER been merely ACCUSED of a crime? Once you are caught up into that psychotic profiling, it is extremely hard to get OUT without deep down hook ups. You MUST be BLESSED in order to find your way outta of prison, no matter if you goto trial or not... Those in government DO believe, with cyncism and sarcasm intact, that one is guilty before being proven innocent... It is no wonder why that Judge in Florida cursed out the social worker for not doing her job in the case of Rilya Wilson... Without connections, you would need to use Jedi Mind Tricks...

Here's a tough question to bake your noodle, based on folks blind, sheep-like mentality here:

Without any spiritual connection, whatsoever, why is murder wrong? You cannot use God, Jesus Christ, Allah, Buddha or Hinduism... Only secular reasoning... And and don't say because it's the LAW--laws are made to be broken... Why is murder wrong???

(I know why it is wrong, but that is because I believe in a Higher Power and the Universe--so secularly, in reality--I cannot come up with a good answer)

Here is the bottom line:
Everyone acknowledges that the government placed drugs in the inner cities. Everyone acknowledges that they have created drug legislation to deliberately oppress those in the inner city. With this in mind, those in the inner city are stifled from nearly every angle. It certainly IS a choice. But it is one that would NOT have been present if our government had not made it so.

As far as the government goes, we are not talking about every law, just those relating to drugs. I am saying that it is hard to fathom how one can condemn the government for oppressing its citizens, yet turn around and applaud it for the same thing.

As far as the community goes...no, the only alternative is not to go live in the mountains. You can see the government for what it is, its weaknesses and flaws, and exploit them. Then you can begin to change things. And you are correct, individuals do make up communities. But in order to change ANYTHING it is going to take an entire community. And I submit to you, that if the community is to be sound and strong enough to take on this task, it is not at all helpful if some members are supporting the government's obvious oppression. When you continue to tout these laws, that is what you are doing. Trust me, there are a PLETHORA of ways to rid our communities of drugs. And none of them involve the social control that is being forced upon us now.

AKA_Monet, you raise an interesting point. To what extent should we allow the government to dictate what is right and wrong? I do not think that we should live in a lawless society, don't get me wrong. But just consider our "rights".

CHECK YOUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT.
 

Bout time somebody's lookin'. In my jungle, the local officials use this law to change the complexion of neigbhorhoods. It's like redlining 2000. They send in young people who they "placed in the game" into an undersireable's home, then bum-rush the house while this person is holdin'. Then take the property. Alot of kneedroes aint up on that one; but it happens alot.