Alfred University to Dissolve Greek System
 

Here goes another one. (this is an Alfred U Press Release). I wonder if any of the groups will try to make a go of it off campus a la SCU?
-----------------------------

Alfred University trustees vote to eliminate fraternities and sororities
5/20/02
The Alfred University Board of Trustees has voted to eliminate fraternities and sororities, ending their nearly-100-year presence on this campus.

The vote came after a special Trustee Task Force on Greek Life delivered a report sharply critical of the University’s Greek system, and recommended its elimination.

The trustees directed President Charles M. Edmondson and his staff to draft a plan to implement their decision and authorized the Executive Committee of the Board to review and approve the administration’s plan on behalf of the full board.

While the board’s action was taken at its meeting late on Friday, the announcement was delayed until today to permit Gerald Brody, vice president of Student Affairs, to notify presidents of fraternities and sororities of the board’s decision. “We wanted to extend that courtesy to our students,” said President Edmondson.

“The Board of Trustees is convinced that the Greek system is beyond repair,” said Robert McComsey, chairman of the Board. “The vote was virtually unanimous – 25 trustees voted in favor and one abstained.
We must ensure that Alfred University provides an environment conducive to learning and one that assures the safety and well-being of all students. From this report, it became clear to all of us that our Greek system simply does not contribute to the type of learning environment we want at Alfred University.”

The report was the culmination of more than three months’ work by the Task Force, headed by Board Chairman Emeritus Dr. Gene M. Bernstein. The 1969 alumnus was president of his fraternity while at AU. The majority of the eight-member task force were Greek affiliates, as are 82 percent of the Board of Trustees who are AU alumni.

The Board appointed the special task force in February after the death of Benjamin Klein, 21, a junior business major from Putney, VT. Klein had allegedly been beaten by two of his fraternity brothers before his death, although a medical examiner’s report said the injuries Klein sustained did not cause his death.

“The Task Force concluded that while many students who belong to Greek organizations are outstanding young people, some of these organizations and the Greek system they comprise have become dysfunctional,” said Bernstein. “I want to emphasize that during the course of our investigation, the Task Force members met many members of fraternities and sororities who are ideal students. We also recognized the tremendous achievements and contributions of our more than 6,000 Greek alumni.”

Bernstein said the Task Force evaluated three different options: 1) to continue the Greek system as it is; 2) to drastically reform the system; or 3) to eliminate fraternities and sororities.

“As we began reviewing reports and documents… it became abundantly clear that the first alternative was neither viable nor responsible,” Bernstein said. “We examined what has happened at 20 other Northeastern colleges and universities, including some of the most prestigious institutions in the country, such as Amherst, Williams, Colby, Middlebury, Dartmouth and Bucknell; all have either undertaken major reforms of their Greek systems or eliminated them entirely. Those who did away with fraternities and sororities found it had a positive impact on academic quality and ability to recruit students and faculty.”

At Alfred University, the Task Force found membership has declined from 45 percent of the student body 40 years ago to 10 percent today. Among entering freshmen last year, only 4 percent expressed an interest in joining a fraternity or sorority, raising questions of their long-term viability, a concern heightened by the fact that fewer than half the members currently live in the chapter houses.

Additionally, “Greek membership does not reflect the changing campus population in terms of women, minorities or international students, all of which have an important future at Alfred University,” Bernstein said.

The Task Force also learned that students in Greek houses tend to drink more and more often than their peers at Alfred University, and that while there are some excellent students who are members of fraternities and sororities, the overall grade-point averages of students with Greek affiliations tend to be lower than the campus average, and lower than the students’ SAT scores and high school ranking would have predicted. There are also growing numbers of violations of University policy. This spring, six of the 12 Greek organizations (eight fraternities and four sororities) were under sanction for violations.

The Task Force also rejected the second alternative – drastic reform of the system. “The University tightened its guidelines for fraternities and sororities, beginning in 1992. It also hired additional staff to work with the Greek organizations, offering a number of educational programs from leadership development to how to host a party responsibly,” said Bernstein. “The University has repeatedly encouraged fraternities and sororities to set higher academic standards for themselves and to police their own behavior, but overall, they still do not meet our expectations.”

Furthermore, the task force noted, the University has offered financial assistance to the Greek houses, including establishing a revolving loan fund to help them with repairs to their houses.

“Ten years of determined efforts to reform the system have failed to produce satisfactory results, as evidenced by the continued decline in membership,” said Bernstein. “In the end, the Task Force concluded the most responsible alternative is to eliminate these organizations.”

“This action requires us to decide very soon what to do with approximately 100 students who planned to live in those houses next fall,” said Edmondson. “We must determine whether they may stay there and, if so, what special conditions should be required. Parents must also decide, in light of the Task Force's findings, where they want their children to live.”

He expects to resolve this question within a few weeks and to notify parents and students of their housing options as soon as possible, so that they can make alternative living arrangements if necessary. “Whatever the decision we reach in this matter, every student will have a place to live this fall,” he said.

Along with its recommendation that the Greek system be eliminated, the Trustee Task Force urged that the University act boldly to enhance the quality of life on campus. Edmondson said that in all likelihood major changes - and major investments in programs and facilities for students - lie ahead.

“This decision by the Board of Trustees will allow the University to reallocate resources now directed at the 10 percent of students who have Greek affiliations to improving the quality of life for all students,” said Brody, who will be among those drafting the implementation plan.

“We will be able to explore ways of enhancing residential life options for all students, perhaps by integrating housing and academics with more special interest housing units.” The University already has a Language House, an Honors Program House, Hillel House, and the Environmental Studies House, where students with a common interest live together in a semi-independent unit.

“As we implement the board’s decision, we must remember our ultimate goal: to improve the living and learning environment for all students on this campus,” said Edmondson.

It is sad to see that this board has made this wrong decision.

It would be truly upsetting if I were a member of a chapter at Alfred and they shut me down because of someone elses' stupidity.

The trustees here have decided to pull the plug on the organizations that typically spawn the folks that come back as alums and pay these idiot's salaries!

I wonder how many millions of dollars worth of future donations this has cost them?

Snake,

There's something deeper and more troubling than that.

If you read the entire article, you know that, of the people who made the decision, the majority are Greek.

Surely they understand the dynamics.

Were the chapters there that out of control?

Is political pressure on the administration that strong?

There's got to be more here than meets the eye.

Yeah, it sounds like the system needs fixing ... only 4 percent interest? Grades below the all-college average? Still, I don't think that yanking the system is necessarily the answer. If they want higher grades, make that a criteria for recognition. If they want less alcohol, make being dry a criteria for recognition. Etc.

Unfortunately this isn't the first greek hazing related death at Alfred. There is a deeper problem here as DeltAlum wrote. The Board of Trustees is protecting the university from any possible future liability in a lawsuit. It's called risk management. I don't blame them one bit. A verdict or even a settlement could cost millions of dollars. It isn't worth it to Alfred no matter "how many millions of dollars worth of future donations this has cost them" from greek alumni as ktsnake wrote. It seems to have become a matter of life and death.

Some advice to the AU Greeks:

My school, Santa Clara University, decided to disband the Greek system just over 1 year ago. Just because the school no longer supports the Greek-letter-organizations, does not necessarily mean they must cease to exist. In the one year since we were kicked off campus, the three surviving fraternities and two sororities have grown immensely in size, quality, and overall participation in campus activities.

Several of the organizations capitalized on the new lack of school restraint and guidance, and have doulbed in size. My chapter (Zeta-Eta) of Sigma Pi Fraternity went from 27 members at the beginning of last school year, to nearly 80 members now. The sororities have both grown from 100 members to nearly 170 members now. The Greeks at SCU have come together as a new system off campus, and are now flourishing. In fact, we are doing so well off campus, that a new sorority is colonizing next year for the first time in 10 years.

To the AU students:
With hard work and dedication to your causes and your organizations too can survive and flourish in the new off-campus environment. Don't give up hope! It can, and has been done before!


Mike
Sigma Pi Fraternity
Rush Chairman

What chapters were at AU?

(anyone know?)

This is the school Eileen Stevens' (anti-hazing advocate) son went to - the local he pledged was called Klan Alpine and they are not on that list, but I saw them on the web page somewhere else. That tells me that it took a hella long time after that incident for them to get kicked off campus. Problem #1.

the thing that disturbs me is the org parity - it is like that at Dartmouth - twice as many men's GLOs as women's. Then the college prevents any new sororities from forming, and then says that the system is discriminatory to women. HELLO!! I'm not saying it is that way here but generally in the Northeast, you don't have that big of a discrepancy unless the school noodled with it.

Actually Fuzzie, I was reading an article that I guess is from Tri Delta's magazine, and it was all about recruitment now as compared to in the past. There was a study done by The American Freshman , conducted at UCLA, and less than 1% of incoming freshmen ever plan to live in sorority/fraternity housing, and only 11% even are considering joining a fraternity or sorority. So the numbers are pretty low!

BUT, I think that a lot more people will be greek if you can show them the benefits of the system. We just turned a chapter around on a campus where they haze like hell. Our chapter doesn't haze, but were lumped in with other groups who do. We sold our non-hazing point. The chapter went from 16 women to 40 in 3 weeks.

I'll have to agree with Cream. If the lawsuits cost more than what the greek alumni donate, the school has to look out for their best interest. It does seem a bit odd that they didn't disband the problem fraternities first and then look at other drastic measures. :confused:

Alfred Greek Member
 

I figured it would be a good idea to give all of you posting messages about what happened in Alfred a little background on the situation.

I am a sister at Alpha Kappa Omicron a local sorrority at Alfred. The University press release fails to mention that most but not all Greeks had bad grades etc. Our sorroirty for the past 2 years has had the highest Greek GPA which was also higher than the University Women's GPA.

The reason only 10 Greek organizations were listed is because 2 (Sigma and Klan) had their charters suspended earlier this year.

The Greek Task Force was brought about by the death of a ZBT brother that was unrelated to "Greek" activities. The decision made by the Task Force was made Friday according to the press release...Presidents of our houses were not notified until Monday early afternoon.

I truly believe that the decision made by the board was made w/o full concideration of their options. Attempts could have been made to work with those of us who are trying. Yes our system needed changes but no it did not need to be eliminated.

Alfred
 

I also am a member of the Alfred sorority Alpha Kappa Omicron. I want to state for people on the outside looking at this situation that, yes, it looks bad. The Alfred Greek system has never been perfect. Do I agree with what happened in 1978? Absolutely not! It should have been dealt with then, not almost 25 years down the road. Do I agree with what happened this past year, with the death of an Alfred ZBT brother? Again, absolutely not! Do I understand the university's position about liability? Yes. As an alumnus I can say that I loved Alfred when I went there. I don't ever want my school to have a bad reputation. However, what made part of my days there so special was my participation in Greek life. I am thankful that the university recognized that the Greek community does make good contributions to the community. But I don't think that eliminating the system was the answer.
Our greek alumni donate a lot of money to the university and make up a large percentage of the people that come back for alumni events at the college. We provide large amounts of community service to give back to our community. Yes, our numbers are small compared to other campuses. But I feel that we have been battling a system that has made narrower and narrower rules, without really working with us. The assurances that if we keep our noses clean and follow the rules, we will be fine, were obviously not backed up by much. We have been trying to work with the university. However, I think that everyone is more apt to point the finger at the most recent incident and to say that our organizations have gone down hill.
What is to happen to our house, that we have OWNED since 1949. Many of the structures in town are old and carry a lot of history. We do not want to lose either. At this point the university has made their decision. I am sure that there will be a lot of lost tempers and many rash decisions in the days to follow. I am sad, but I also have hope that we can continue to exist and maybe improve upon the good that already is within our system.
We have fears that the university and the town will want to abolish the system completely. In the university's letter they state that they will have to make a decision whether students with be allowed to live in their houses. How can they do this when most of us own the stuctures? I am asking members of other greek organizations, whose campuses have gone through similar situations for some advice on where we go from here? Will the fraternities and sororities still be allowed to exist by their nationals? Will locals even have a chance if they aren't nationally affiliated?
I would appreciate any help on this matter. And please don't be so quick to judge the whole by the actions of a few. Thanks,
Jennifer

Re: Alfred
 

If Alfred is a public school then you can live anywhere you want, take pledges, advertise, raise money, have social functions and pretty much do anything you want as long as you are not breaking any laws.

Check out the thread by GreeksSCU. His fraternity doubled in size since the his school banned glos. You can do the same.

Jennifer - I completely agree, the things that happened 25 years ago should have been dealt with then, the fact that a group that did that was allowed to linger makes everyone look bad.

I can't say what will happen with the fraternities - some will stay on a non-admin supported campus and some will not. As far as the sororities however, DZ will probably pull out, as they did at SCU, just because that is in their constitution. If the girls have a strong sisterhood they can probably make it together as a local. Since the other 2 sororities are already local I don't see a problem with it.

madmax is right, if you are public you can live wherever you want. If your school accepts ANY $$$ in federal funding they are stepping on your rights.

http://dke.org/roar.html has quite a bit of info on the situations at the other colleges up there - check it out. Good luck to you all and hang in there. :)

If the DZs did have to pull out, what happens to the actives then? do they automatically become alumni? and then would they be allowed to function as a local, or would that violate dual membership?

The DZ sisters will most likely be granted immediate alumnae status by National Headquarters. They'll probably be encouraged to start an alumnae chapter in the area (or join a pre-existing alumnae chapter). I doubt seriously if National HQ would let the girls go local.

I hate that the girls worked so hard to colonize their chapter at Alfred only to have it stolen from them a few years later. It's sad that the actions of a few are preventing so many people from enjoying the benefits of being a collegiate Greek at Alfred U. I hope that, in time, the school will realize the poor decision it made and welcome Greeks back on campus. Doubtful, I'm sure. :(

But what if they all decide to have a non-greek lettered "social group"? I mean, it's not like these girls are flipping DZ the bird - this is something being forced on them. It would suck if they had to disband just because they were the only national. Plus, what would happen after those gals graduated? The alum chapter would die, unless they keep initiating collegians through alum initiation. I think they should at least be given the chance to keep the group going in a local form.

FYI, From Fraternal News

Thoughts As Alfred University Bans Its Greek System

By Hank Nuwer

"The call came in the middle of the night. Eileen Stevens's son was
dead. She was alert and numb at once, her flesh no longer part of
her. She wanted to hang up. She wanted the caller to stay on the line
forever. She wanted to know what had happened and how. But most of
all, she wanted the call to be a dream, a very bad dream.

The pain in the caller's voice, the small break in his professional
manner, revealed the truth, told her the worst had happened. She was
ready to bargain with God. The devil. The caller himself. Take my
life, my soul-take me. I've lived. But make it untrue. Take me, not
Chuck. But Chuck was dead."

So begins my 1990 book Broken Pledges: The Deadly Rite of Hazing, the
story of the death of Chuck Stenzel. Chuck was an Alfred University
student who died pledging Klan Alpine, a local AU fraternity. In a
bizarre hazing ritual called "Tapping Night," Chuck was locked in a
car trunk with other pledges, handed alcohol, and then later made to
play deceptive alcohol games with fraternity members, calculated to
make the pledges dead drunk by midnight.

Chuck, a strapping athlete with longish wheat-colored hair, was put
to sleep in the house, just before midnight on a tick mattress, and
died from an alcohol overdose on February 24, 1978. The theme of the
party, a Klan Alpine member (older and wiser and sweaty-soaked as he
talked) told me was, "Don't Stop Till You Drop." In writing Broken
Pledges, I interviewed Klan Alpine's undergraduates, their advisers,
and alums, including the last people to see Chuck alive. To a person,
they were decent men who spoke with their names on full record, in
hopes of preventing another fraternity death. The parents spoke to me
candidly, as did present and former AU administrators and faculty.

I concluded then that Alfred University, a small private school in
New York's Southern Tier, couldn't have handled the 1978 fraternity
death any worse than it did. An AU administrator and a local district
attorney conducted a so-called investigation without interviewing
many witnesses, and some crucial post-death statements by school
administrators, by their own admission, did not hold up as fact under
scrutiny. There were no arrests of fraternity members or alums who
attended the Tapping Night party where Chuck died. The only result of
this 'investigation' was a temporary suspension of fraternity
activities. The case might have embarrassed the school even more,
had not the entire Chuck Stenzel file prepared by that district
attorney's staff disappeared from the Allegany County (N.Y)
courthouse archives. (The then D.A. defended his investigation and
his decision not to press charges in the Stenzel death.)

*************************

While writing Broken Pledges, then President Richard Rose told me
point-blank that he'd taken bad advice from attorneys and had avoided
Stenzel's mother in the days and years following Chuck's death. If he
could go back in time, he said in a face-to-face interview, he would
have followed his heart and talked to them as a plain father to a
plain mother. Rose's decision to go on the record and criticize his
decisions took courage, but he did so unflinchingly when I
interviewed him.

In addition, in the past decade, Alfred University has reversed its
actions 180 degrees and has become as proactive in stopping hazing as
any school in the country.

Chuck's mother, Eileen Stevens (she took a new last name when she
remarried), began an anti-hazing organization called the Committee to
Halt Useless College Killings. Among other accomplishments, Stevens
agitated for a strong New York State anti-hazing law. She got it
passed after years of lobbying, and then embraced the fraternal
system by speaking at hundreds of colleges and universities. Her
message was simple: "Return to the ideals of your founders. They
would be turning in their graves to see young men and women dying
from hazing."

All this ancient history has been dredged up again. On May 20, 2002,
Alfred University announced - as has Williams, Colby and Bowdoin in
recent years - that it was discontinuing its fraternity system.

Continuing incidents involving alcohol and pledging were too much for
AU's trustees to forbear. Zeta Beta Tau member Ben Klein was found
dead in a frozen creek behind the chapter house, after having been
beaten by his fraternity brothers for revealing chapter rituals to
ZBT members at Syracuse University (the criminal investigation
continues). Additional hazing incidents, similar to those that had
killed Stenzel in 1978, involved the Klan Alpine fraternity. Ongoing
alcohol/pledging incidents - including post-party auto fatalities or
injuries to fraternity and sorority members - continued over the
years and resulted in suspensions to half of AU's sororities.

On May 20, 2002 then - Alfred University trustees announced their
decision to shut down all local and national fraternal organizations,
which had existed on campus for nearly 90 years. They did so with
full knowledge that some alums would withhold financial contributions
and that undergraduates would protest.

Certainly the fraternities and sororities should have seen the action
coming, and could have worked harder to clean up their collective
acts. In 1999, Alfred University embraced its once bitterest critic,
Eileen Stevens, and awarded her an honorary doctorate. "That event
has haunted both Mrs. Stevens and Alfred University for more than 20
years," said then President Edward Coll. "I believe, and the Board of
Trustees agreed, that it was time for a reconciliation."

In association with the National Collegiate Athletic Conference
(NCAA), researchers from Alfred University conducted studies on
athletic hazing and conducted another study on high school hazing.
The school's administration welcomed criticism on their studies, and
welcomed my input on the NCAA study when researchers were preparing
questions. Mrs. Stevens was also an adviser to AU researchers Dr.
Norm Pollard and Dr. Nadine Hoover.
The death of Zeta Beta Tau member Ben Klein this past February
horrified trustees and the AU researchers on hazing.

Public relations seemed the smallest of concerns. A young man was
dead, and the chapter members who had beaten him - incredibly - sat
back and drank beer and watched as rescue workers combed the bushes
in search for the missing Klein. (The AU chapter members' puzzling
and unsettling actions occurred in spite of demands for reform issued
from the Zeta Beta Tau headquarters that has lost other young men to
hazing and/or alcohol since the 1970s).

And though the death of Chuck Stenzel occurred in February 1978, that
loss still devastated Mrs. Stevens, AU administrators, and some
fraternity/sorority members, including Klan Alpine alums.

For what it is worth, having a fraternity background, I'd hoped the
AU administration might bounce the worst offending chapters and keep
the other fraternities and sororities. I'd recommended in print that
the school keep its system, and instead, launch a national commission
to study deaths and near-deaths involving fraternity and sorority
members and party guests on campus. I'd heard from Alfred
undergraduates and alumni by e-mail, who pointed out, in sometimes
emotional and sometimes reasoned arguments, that their
fraternity/sorority experience at AU had enhanced their lives.

Thus, I don't fully agree with Alfred University's current decision
to ban all fraternal organizations on campus. Yet, I wholly
understand the reasoning of the AU board of trustees. The board,
significantly, had some members with a fraternity/sorority
background, and tellingly, it had a key trustee with a corporate
background in the insurance industry. He presumably had risk
management facts about AU and national fraternities and sororities at
his fingertips. Perhaps the decision might reduce liability in the
Klein death-that's too early to tell.

In turn, the AU trustees could look us all in the eye and ask a tough
question: Would we want to call a mother in the middle of the night
to tell her that her child has died in a fraternity or sorority
initiation - or drowned in a creek after chapter members had beaten
him?
I know my answer. What would you say?

The losses of these family members weigh like stones on the soul. And
while I have no idea how the ZBT undergrads feel at Alfred
University, I have talked (for publication and informally) over time
with the past two ZBT national executive directors and one member of
the national council, and they have been forceful in their assurances
that they want - that they insist - on reform and safe chapters. I've
also talked firsthand to Klan alum, who were not only devastated by
Chuck Stenzel's death but frustrated because undergraduates continued
to drink and haze.

Actually, I share their frustration. As I write, Klan Alpine is on
suspension for injuring a guest and for conducting pledging
activities that constituted hazing (and which were reminiscent of
those that killed Chuck Stenzel). Also on suspension for alcohol
infractions and pledging violations were Sigma Chi Nu and Theta Theta
Chi sororities. Other fraternity chapters in recent years at AU have
been in trouble, and yet these, and some other chapters, have been
involved admirably with charities and that makes the shutdown all the
more serious and worthy of close study by other schools.

When I write about hazing, I tend to look for behaviors I consider
risky or unhealthy, as opposed to making conclusions by "judging"
people on their rightness or wrongness. AU's administrators clearly
indicated that the ZBT chapter involved in Ben Klein's death
certainly engaged in risky, unhealthy activities. Does this make it
any easier for the healthy, risk-free fraternity and sorority members
and alums to accept the loss of their chapters? Not one bit, I know,
and I empathize with those folks - though not with any chapter that
engaged in risk-taking activities while trumpeting their chapter as
"responsible."

The lessons of the Alfred study are clear for other private schools
and for members at those institutions.. The committee did not act in
haste. It met often and welcomed input. It could not entirely be free
of emotion since one young man had died in a hazing and another died
under mysterious circumstances with the blows of the brotherhood
imprinted on his body.
Private and public schools of higher education are cracking down, no
question, since the early 1990s. I see firsthand the tighter rules at
Indiana University, and I hear second-hand the tightening of alcohol,
drug and hazing restrictions at schools such as Duke University,
Trinity (Connecticut), San Diego State, and so on. The number of
deaths has become appalling, and working in student affairs has
become highly stressful for those administrators who have had to sit
the night in an emergency room chair with a family, wondering if a
kid who had been healthy as a horse just hours earlier will live or
die. Likewise, I've spoken and corresponded with many fraternity and
sorority executives over the years, and I have no doubt that they are
horrified by alcohol- and hazing-related deaths. Too many executives,
for financial, personal or board/alum pressure reasons, keep too many
chapters active that are walking time bombs.

The bottom line is that the number of deaths on college campuses
related to alcohol is astounding. The bottom line is that the
National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse says that underage
drinkers are twice as likely to have gotten drunk in the preceding
month compared with adult drinkers (27.7 percent vs. 13.5 percent).
The group also estimates that 5 million high school students binge
drink monthly. These statistics tell colleges such as Alfred that the
problem isn't going away, but will be at the doorstep with each new
class. Finally, the bottom line is that Alfred University decided
that continuing the fraternity and sorority system was a risky,
unhealthy thing to do.

And that decision sends a clear, unwavering - and yes - sobering
message to the rest of America's private colleges, and perhaps to its
state universities, as well. Like it or not, they and I hear that
message now.

Bio: Hank Nuwer writes frequently about Greek safety and reform
issues. His latest book is "To the Young Writer." He was a member of
a fraternity that was forced to go local by order of the State
University of New York chancellor many years ago and he maintains
contact with other members of his chapter.

Disclosure: I've also in the past conducted an unpaid seminar with
the then-suspended ZBT chapter at Indiana University at the request
of a Dean Michael Gordon of IU, who oversaw the chapter's no-nonsense
rehabilitation).

Alfred Trustees Ban Fraternity and Sorority Life On Campus

Story about it in my hometowns newspaper.

I agree that its sad to see the system go, but if they have been having all the problems they have had for awhile (And I have been hearing about it sinec I was in HS)...
1) Practically 0 interest in greek life, numbers on the decline
2) Continual behavioral problems from not just a few but many
3) Terrible grades and lower than the campus average (Of course not all the orgs but a vast majority)
4) A greater proclivity to drink *which thats not a greek thats a college thing so skip that*

Then maybe it isnt bad if the campus takes a break from it for awhile. Most of the trustees on the board ARE Greek alums and are saddened (supposedly) by this. It's sad but sometimes the good ones have to take the downfall with the bad in order to make things better. However, if the greeks at Alfred have other suggestions I the board should have listen. After all the school administrators are kind of just as guilty as the Greek students for not putting a foot down when the system first started to get out of control.

I tried to post about this a few minutes ago, but I think it was lost in cyberland... I'll try to remember what I wrote...

My main point of the lost post was: Once a Delta Zeta, always a Delta Zeta. Just because the Alfred University DZ chapter is being forced to close due to matters beyond its control doesn't mean that the sisters cease to be Delta Zetas. For this reason, it would be wrong for them to form a local group that is a separate entity from DZ. However, that being said, the girls can join a local group -- a Delta Zeta alumnae chapter. And, if they want to create their own DZ alum chapter instead of joining a pre-established one, then they have the option to do that as well.

Just because the Greek system is being shut down at Alfred University doesn't mean that a DZ alumnae chapter will "die" after the current sisters graduate. After graduation, those girls will STILL be Delta Zeta alumnae -- they can still participate in DZ-related activities and they can welcome other DZs in the area to join them. There are Delta Zeta alumnae everywhere, and there are many very strong, vital DZ alumnae chapters that are doing great right now, even though there isn't a collegiate DZ chapter anywhere nearby. So, just because Alfred U. no longer will have a DZ chapter doesn't necessarily mean that a DZ alumnae chapter in the area won't thrive.

I hope this clarifies my point a little bit. Please let me know if you have questions! :)

Greek Love,
dzrose93 :D

I'm pretty sure that just accepting federal funding doesn't mean the school can't tell students what to do. Almost every college and university accepts some funding for research, yet almost every private college restricts where students can live. For example, my school got a lot of research grants ... yet those under 21 who didn't live with mom and dad were required to live on campus (including greek housing).

Maybe state universities can't make restrictions like that, but I have a feeling that if it were illegal for private institutions to do so, it would have been legally challenged a long time ago.

..
 

If the girls want to go local then go local. It's not like DZ nationals can pull their charter for a second time. The new chapter can be called Delta whatever. I dont see how DZ nationals can complain about dual membership because some chapters start out as local.

..
 

I disagree. If a school receives federal funding I dont think they can take away a student's Constitutional Rights. Many schools think they can and some even get away with it. The reason they get away with it is because most college students dont want to go through the trouble and expense of hiring a lawyer.



Did anyone notice that Beta Theta Pi was recently reinstated at Auburn. (Auburn thread).. Auburn didnt reinstate them willingly, it took a 100 million dollar lawsuit, but they are back in.

I'm sure our university gets some form of federal funding 33girl, yet ban fraternities all the time. As a matter of fact, a few years (maybe 2), they put a rule into affect that if your fraternity or sorority is busted having a party with alcohol, and people are arrested for underage drinking and such, the University can suspend you from campus, and you will never be reinstated as a student organization. Yes, the fraternities who were banned do continue to operate, but when a student at the university died at one of the banned fraternity's parties, that student's parents couldn't sue the university...and ended up suing the parents of each brother of the fraternity. It was ugly and messy and expensive, and the fraternity lost its house...the only fraternity that owned their residence.

If you're under 21, you don't really have constitutional rights. That's why, for example, the courts have ruled again and again that high schools can limit students' freedom of speech.

Nobody can take away your Constitutional rights. But there's no Constitutional question here that I can see. The Constitution doesn't guarantee you the right to belong to a fraternity or sorority. And it doesn't guarantee that you can live in any given place. (If you're being told you can't live somewhere due to race, that's another matter -- one of Civil Rights.)

And FuzzieAlum is right. If you're under 21 your rights are at least not the same as they are later in life. Not that you have no rights, but they are dramatically modified.

Finally, remember that the university has rights, too -- no matter how agregious they may seem to us. Private colleges are, in the long run, simply businesses -- and unless they break the law, they can do pretty much whatever they want to within the context of that business. And, what they're doing here is simply cutting their liability.

Re: ..
 

When a DZ chapter is closed, the chapter girls are usually granted alumnae status, and National HQ does not recognize a chapter as being official once it's charter has been pulled. A chapter starting out as a local is completely different than a chapter going back to being a local. DZ National supports a local chapter when its members are working toward becoming an official DZ chapter. At Alfred University, the girls can't work toward that goal anymore.

So, why not just form an alumnae chapter at that point? You still hang out with your sisters, get to do DZ activities, and share the sisterhood of Delta Zeta -- you just don't have a collegiate charter anymore. Some folks in this thread are acting like starting an alumnae chapter is a bad thing, and it's not. I personally would much prefer being an official DZ alumna instead of going underground as a local chapter and not being able to enjoy the Delta Zeta experience that I worked so hard to earn. :D

Just my 2 cents on this topic

The Kappa Sigma Zeta Chapter of Lambda Chi Alpha was just rechartered there in October of 2001.

This was the oldest fraternity at the college I beleive. In fact their HC- owns the current Kappa Sigma House and rents it to them at this time, last I heard.

So now I am quite sure LCA will revoke this group, as they have done in accordance with past policy on campuses like Colby, Waynesburg etc.

However-as a side note- from my limited experience with schools "dumping greeks" it seems that if they are strong organizations with houses and money- they wont go away anyway. Take a stroll in Lancaster, Pennsylvania and you'll see a group of large greek houses, with 80+ members, the college "doesnt recognize them".

I am not sure what Alfred is like, but I dont really see how a language house or non smoking apartment building replaces greek organizations.

My personal thought is that as schools take this route- you'll have fraternities operate out of the shadows- aka mid 1800's.

My college has about 6 "off campus" illegal groups- two just celebrated 10 years off campus- they still recruit/party/have houses etc. What is the point- they get less regulation and you still cant get rid of them.

Best of luck to my brothers at Alfred, and the rest of the Greeks.

Dont take it sitting down, and DONT let them take property you own.

Gratzi!

Jason Lenox

Alfred University
 

Hello all-

I am writing this post in response to all of the previous posts on this thread, not to voice an opinion, because most of you have already voiced the same opinions I have, but to ask for help. I am a Kappa Psi Upsilon brother here at Alfred University. We are a local fraternity, one of 5 GLO's that are local.

While Alfred University is predominantly a private university, we are funded in part by the federal government. This brings up many questions, many of which noone that I have spoken with know the answers to. I have read all of the previous posts, and while some touch on the subject, none fully explain what can happen. My understanding is that they can not prohibit us from wearing letters on campus, or prohibit us from congregating as an organization off campus. While I am not sure that they are going to try and do this, it seems as if it is implied in the Press Release that was made public Monday at 2:00 pm. While the press release says that they wanted to give the students the consideration of knowing before the general public (not the exact wording, I know), this is false. The press release was emailed to the entire AU student population at 4:23 pm, on Monday.

I also have a question regarding what the university can do to us greeks that do not listen to the university. I can give you an example. We own our house, which is off campus, and have owned it since 1927. Is it legally possible for the university to prohibit us from living in the house that we own a part of as it seems they are going to try and do?

Now here is my request, while it may not be a reasonable one, I am wondering if there are supporters out there that would like to voice their opinions to Alfred University. While this might not do anything, there is a possibility that it might do something. If you would like to voice your opinion to the President of Alfred University, Charles Edmondson, his e-mail address is edmondson@alfred.edu. If you do choose to voice your opinion, I would appreciate a CC to my account, because I am interested to know how many people are writing him. I apologize for the length of this post.

Let me clarify the federal funding thing...

Yes, the school can derecognize fraternities. They can make you live on campus. They can do all this even if they get federal funding.

BUT....they absolutely, positively cannot ban you from being in a fraternity OFF the campus, if you desire. If LXA wants to let the bros at Alfred retain their charter, and they meet/rush off campus, they are allowed to do that. This is what got people pissed at I think Colby....they were disciplining students for off-campus fraternal activities. By the same token you cannot discipline students for belonging to the KKK, Jaycees, NAMBLA or any other off-campus group. Even though the goals of the group may be in conflict with those of the college, once you walk off that campus it's your life and not a thing they can do about it.

At schools like the PA state schools where all the houses are off campus anyway, derecognition can prove particularly futile. Yes if something happens the individual fraternity members can be sued, but it's often a case of you can't get blood from a turnip. Most of these kids (and often their parents) don't have 2 nickels to rub together.

Hey Jason - can you PM me about the Greek scene at F & M? That whole deal confuses me.

p.s. No offense to the Jaycees out there. ;)

When you are alum in DZ, everyone who initiated into that specific chapter at that school is considered to be in what's called a Chapter Association. So they could still do stuff as a chapter association, but I don't believe they could initiate other people unless it was as an alumnae initiation, and they would have to get permission to do that... Please correct me if I am wrong here...

information
 

What is your email account? and name for that matter for your CC'ing on emails?

Secondly- to answer your questions- PLEASE DONT LLISTEN TO ALL THE HOOPLA ON HERE! GO and retain an attorney that has some specialty in fraternal issues, or for that matter state and federal issues with regards to housing and discrimination. I would do this at the earliest possible time. You should also get your alumni organization involved ASAP with any legal dealing you have.

Also- maintain a united front with the other greeks in this situation. Get other alumni groups talking- and see what kind of gratis legal help is available.

And Ill pose this simple question to everyone- If some Greek groups are bad, and the solution is to ban them completely and outright- would the same logic apply that since terrorists recently seem to be predominantly arab/muslim should Universities ban them outright and completely as well?

Obviously, the answer is NO. We as a people (i.e Americans , and Canadians etc.) do not treat people like that - A.K.A. we dont punish an entire group for the actions of a few.

The way Alfred University is treating all of you, Id say they would have to answer "YES" based on their current logic.

Some food for thought, and I hope I didnt rock the boat too much with that one!

Fraternally

Lenoxxx

Just to add...I think it is a big mistake for a school to cease to recognize greek life because then they have no control over it. At least if they have a hand in it, they can hold them to some standards!

Re: Alfred University
 

1. What are the rules about moving off campus right now?

2. How is the housing situation on campus? (i.e. can everyone have a room that wants one, or is it overcrowded)

Let us know, then we can go from there...

we need help
 

i am a brother at a local fraternity, Kappa Psi Upsilon, of Alfred university and am calling out to all Greeks that have a word of support. we dont want to die and we will fight as long as we can, but we need help. my fraternity has been an active part of this university for 80 years and now they are telling us that we are no longer a contributing member of the community? it is bs but we need help in fighting this injustice to our greek system, if our school thinks they can do away with us soo easily what is stopping your respective schools from doing the same? we are open to any and all suggestions. the university has been working against us ever since i came here, and i'm a junior, we have been dealt with injustly, from a greek advisor who works against us to our school as a whole who will only release press statements that are going against us. i was a friend of the ZBT brother who tragically died but don't punish the houses who have worked hard to gain popularity amongst the faculty and staff, who felt it was alright to turn thier backs on us. we are all good people who are doing the best to make the most out of our college experiance, don't hinder our personal growth. Ben didn't die because of a hazing incident, he died because he was too mentally unstable to deal with the events leading up to his disappearance. i am not trying to bash this individual who died way ahead of his time but sadly it is the truth. i knew this kid since i was a feshman and he always had problems. i know i am now rabling but i don't know what else to do right now. please if you are willing to help us tell the rest of your fraternal brothers and any other Greek you know to send an e-mail in support of us greeks to edmondson@alfred.edu and tell them what you think. as one Fraternity Brother to another i ask your help in this matter
thank you ,
Jerry Krajna
KPU'1215'

As long as the house is owned by the chapter or their headquarters, it not possible for Alfred to kick the students out, because they (the school) have no ties to it. IF they do own the property then they can do whatever they want.
I don't believe that Alfred can ban you from wearing Greek letters either. That would be a violation of the first amendment it would seem.
Here's what seems to be the deal to me. For now Alfred has put a stop to the Greek System. To me this implies that they do not have a "Recognized" system anymore. So under student life and orgs., they wont be listed. This doesnt necessarily mean that Greek orgs cant exist off campus, as long as they arent on school property. If you're a local than you can keep it up pretty easily and you wouldnt have to be considered "illegal". If your org is national you could face a problem, because it would seem that since the school doesnt "recognize" the system anymore, it would seem that most nationals would consider their chapters there as inactive and you would probaly either have to go alum or go local and add or drop a letter to your name. I could be wrong about all of this however.
If Alfred U Greeks truely feel like you're in the wrong then fight it all the way :)
Just a thought though...In case things dont work out (I forget how far Alfred U is away from Alfred State havent been up there in awhile), but what about affiliating with the Greek orgs. at Alfred State, if they have the same orgs.? Would that be a possibility? Or even another close school? It might not be what people want, but its something.

I know that Havard doesnt have a recognized Greek system, but they have greek orgs. Does anyone know if they are locals or if they have some national letters and are they officially listed by the nationals?

AU Greeks
 

First off, I would like to say thank you for all of your support. Secondly, my email address is delucaja@alfred.edu.

As for some of the questions that were posed in other posts, I will attempt to answer them to the best of my knowledge.

As of this second, the rules for moving off-campus are simply that the student must be an Upper Classman, and must have lived on-campus for his/her first 2 years. The school does not guarentee on-campus housing after that.

Also, as for the on-campus housing situation, there is no possible way they can move every off-campus greek back onto campus, there simply is not enough room.

Again, I would like to thank everyone for their input and their support.

If anyone can help us out by recommending pro-bono greek lawyers (you know how broke college students are), that too would be great.

Thank you again!

Fraternally yours,
Joseph A. DeLuca III
Kappa Psi Upsilon
'1190'

We will not go softly into the night.

Re: AU Greeks
 

Then I don't think you have to worry about them making you live on campus...unless they kick the freshmen off. Yes, I'm sure that would go over REAL well with parents. You should be able to keep living in your house.

All of the groups on campus need to get together...between all of you, I'm sure you can find a few alum lawyers who want to make the school eat lead (at no cost to you).

Hang in there. :)

If you have your own house that the University doesn't own, be it rented or owned by the fraternity, you can live there. As for that upperclassmen only can live off campus rule, you can have anyone you want live in that house, and they can just be "commuter" students!

Federal law may ban Alfred action
 

Found this on the DKE website. I assume that some GLOs will go to the courts on this one.

"Because of congressional action last fall, Middlebury, Colby and Dartmouth may all be in legal trouble if they insist on trying to enforce their discriminatory ban on traditional Greek organizations. On Oct. 7, President Clinton signed into law the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, which included a new provision expressing the "sense of Congress" that no college that receives federal funds
should sanction (suspend, expel, etc.) any student merely for exercising the normal First Amendment right to join a private organization.

Presidents of the colleges note, correctly, that the congressional language includes no enforcement mechanism. But David Easlick, national executive director for the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity, makes some telling rejoinders. He notes that in earlier cases where n o direct enforcement mechanism is specified, federal courts have ruled that individuals have a right to private relief in the courts against those, like the colleges, who ignore the congressional directives. "Congressional silence does not prelude a court from implying a private right of action," wrote a Third Circuit Court in Hindes vs. F.D.I.C. in 1998. In a similar case 13 years earlier involving a group called the Student Coalition for Peace, the court had written that it "would be extremely reluctant to conclude that Congress intended to create mandatory duties but no means of enforcing them."