pan-hel vs. non
 

I'm curious about pan-hel vs. non- pan-hel sorority relations on other campuses. We have had the option of whether or not we choose to join, and have decided against joining. Unfortunately, I forsee problems arising because of this (we are the only non- panhel social sorority on campus). We are, however, members of Greek Council, so we are not chosing to completely disassociate ourselves from other Greeks or anything like that. Does anyone else have experience with this?

HI Booty KBG....my chapter is facing a similar problem with the council on our campus. We do not wish to be aprt of the PHC and some people seem to have a problem with that. That isn't saying that we don't want to do programs and events with them but we would rather frm a multicultural council ...because we are in fact multicultural......

I agree with you ONELOVE, we are having that problem with PHC on our campus too. They really want us to get an associate membership, but our Nationals is against it because of the fact that we are multicultural and some people associate PHC with historically white sororities. I really don't see a need to join PHC being that most of the NPC sororities on campus do not socialize with us and they don't even see that there is a need for multicultural sororities.

Pardon me while I throw my .10 cents in.

There is always a need for a Governing body to set rules to run by.

While some feel that Nationally BGLOs and MGLOs are different, No they are not!

We as members of Greek Organizations are if not the same, we are similar in the High Ideals we show and profess.

In this day and age of anti-Greek, no one cares what color the Org is but that they have a Greek Designation.
Not all GLOs are alike, Not all BGLs are alike and not all MGLOs are alike, but we all have the same common thread!

Look to associate with each other to make the total a stronger core of people!

If it does not work out then drop it! Put you toe in teh water to see if it is to hot or to cold!

Seek and Ye shall Find!!!!

My sorority is also having similar problems. We are a national service sorority, but we're forced to have a clause that men can rush in our constitution unless we go Panhellenic. We already have the clause that men can rush, but it appears from the outside that we're excluding by sex, and that is against student organization rules at ASU. So somehow it works out that in-order to stay on-campus, we either have to go panhellenic, or be goverened under another council. An all-male service fraternity is considering banding together with us, and some multicultural organizations to create a Multicultural Council.

It's all complicated.

I agree Tom. Just because they're "historically white" doesn't mean they still discriminate in that regard. Jesus I know so many Asians Latinas and African Americans in PHC and are totally happy. They were "historically white" a very long time ago, I don't see why certain people can't get over it. If they WANT you in PHC I don't see what's so bad about joining them.

It's not like this is the case of "the man oppressing you". They WANT you in.

Hey I am a Latina and totally happy and proud to be in phi sigma sigma part pf PHC! And we have other latinas as well as asians and blacks join in the past and currently. Still, a lot of minorities feel that if they join a sorority or fraternity, it must be one of their race or culture. Especially at RU, the traditional black, latino, and asian greeks are large in numbers. I know some of my fellow hispanics thought I was a traitor for joining phi sig! But I was like I am joining a place that was FOUNDED ON DIVERSITY! Yes, traditionally they are the "white" sororities but NOT ANYMORE and haven't been for a really long time. So like some people need to get over it because if you hate on them, then your just as guilty of the prejudice and discrimination that you speak against.

Tom,

I thought that all of the councils were "coordinating" bodies, not governing bodies, and that the only rules that they adopt are for how their own meetings are to be run.

I can understand why an organization would not want to join. The "unanimous decisions" adopted by the members of the councils may not be in the best interest of smaller or newer orgs.

Shine, good luck on your efforts, sister in service.

And another thing. . .

There is a difference between joining an organization that actively celebrates multiculturalism as a founding principle. . .and organizations that uplift people of color as a founding principle. . .and then organizations which celebrate tolerance and diversity.

I'm not saying that these differences should keep people from the same council, but dang, let's not hate on them because they don't want to join it.

Thanks! I've got a special place in my heart for you APO boys! Your men at Bowling Green started us, and we've flourished ever since!

If there wasn't an OPhiA on my campus, I definately would have gone APO, but I really wanted the sisterhood that a sorority entails as opposed to a co-ed fraternity!

Keep up the serving!

:p

I am glad that you recognize that difference because explaining that to people is getting a little old. I think if people didn't like the "Oh, you have ALWAYS been welcome to join our org." vs. "Oh you can join to too" ....Multicultural and ethnic orgs. would not be the FASTEST growing orgs.

That's Fine. If you wAnt to do your multicultural thing, then do it. But if you want to be treated liKE a real GLO, then you have to answer to the same governing bodies that we do.

The body that governs our ethnic GLOs is a joke. They do much worse things to their pledges and are far less organizaed in terms of events of any kind. But they want chapter houses and serious recognition. If that's going to happen then they need to answer to the same strict governing bodies that the real GLOs do.

It's not fair that some Asian frat breaks one of their pledges' legs and it's fine, but if a real fraternity just makes their pledges do push ups in front of their house, they go up for expulsion.

Whoa. Delta Sig Stan.

The things you just said are perfect examples of exactly what we're talking about.

#1. We are NOT fake GLO's. We are just as real as yours is, even if we have different ideals.

#2. Thanks for NOT paying attention, but ethnic GLO's and Multicultural GLO's are not even in the same ballpark. Ethnic GLO's are for ONE ethnicity be it African American, Hispanic or Asian. Multicultural GLO's promote diversity and accept members of all races.

#3. Try having less attitude next time. Insulting other people's fraternities and sororities isn't exactly a great way to make friends.

:rolleyes:

Why should they have to answer to the same governing bodies we do? APhiO has managed fine for years without doing so.

In fact, aside from a national Latino organization, there is no national body that governs MCGLOs or ethnic GLOS. If there is one organized on your campus and it's a joke, that's too bad, sure. But not every local IFC or Panhel is operating well, either.

What about groups that are not yet eligible to join the national orgs, like Phi Sigma Rho or Ceres? What are they supposed to do in the interim?

What about groups like Theta Nu Xi? NPHC is (I believe) opposed to them being a member of local PHCs, and because of their rush structure they won't join Panhel. (Kind of hard to deal with things like quota and ceiling when part of your belief structure is to remain small.) Kind of puts them between a rock and a hard place, eh?

Now, I agree, these groups need as close a scrutiny from the school administration as any IFC fraternity gets. And it would probably strengthen them all if they were to form their own national organization. But they don't have to join a pre-existing one. If NPC, IFC and NPHC can't or won't meet their needs, they shouldn't be shoehorned to fit.

After all, saying, "NPC isn't for us because we want to remain small/take only engineers/etc." is quite different than, "NPC isn't for us because we want to get away with all the hazing we can!" If a group on your campus is doing it, I bet their nationals isn't all that thrilled either.

I think that everyone should respect every organization. No matter what their reasons are for founding, the fact that they share fraternal and sorority bonds that are similar to your own should be acknowledged. After all, aren't we all brothers and sisters in God's eyes? (Yeah I know I went there, but its the truth)

DeltaSigStan
 

Hold up DeltaSigStan, don't go throwing value judgements at other people's organizations. If the ethnic or multicultural greeks aren't running a tight ship, then they need to work some things out, but like FuzzieAlum said not everyone operates top notch.

My fraternity IS a REAL fraternity, founded only seven years after yours. I wonder what Bro. Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. would say if he were here and knew that you insinuated that our fraternity is not real or has less value than traditionally white ones.

It seems very obvious to me that you do not understand the origins and purposes of ethnic and/or multicultural greek organizations.

Might I suggest you check out the book "The Divine Nine" by Lawrence C. Ross, Jr. Also check out www.latinogreeks.com. If anyone knows of any other good resources I'm interested in knowing them myself.

Since I became active on greekchat I've endeavored to find out as much as possible about NPC and NIC organizations. I've learned that some different ogranizations from white greeks to latino greeks to black greek to multicultural greeks have entirely different philosophies and the misunderstandings of our fundamental differences is what leads to bashing. As SapphireSweetie said, all of differences must be respected. Our two organizations may be as different as night and day, but that doesn't make either one any less greek than the other. That's my $.06 cents.

Thanks to Enlightenment06, FuzzieAlum, and Shine for breaking it down...You know it's people who make ignorant statements like DeltaSigStan who make greek life in general look bad and makes *some* whites look like they have a serious superiority complex. Yes, go ahead and gasp, I went there!!!!

1) All Ethnic, Multicultural and service orgs are real GLOs and we do not need your approval or anyone else's for that matter to call ourselves GLO's.

2)Don't say that ethnic AND multicultural orgs do far more hazing than IFC and PHC. First of all, there are NO known cases of any multicultural sorority hazing!!! So obviously not having a council has worked thus far.

3)Last time I checked, we are not begging anyone for recognition or a house. If you compared the number of IFC and NPC sororities that have houses you would see that those orgs have more houses than Ethnic and MC orgs, so we are NOT begging anyone for anything. As far as recognition, we don't beg anyone to pledge our orgs. If you want to join, you come to the interest meeting!!!! We are not going to run around campus with letters on to see how many people we are going to recruit.

4) Don't compare the actions of one ethnic org. to all of us. I'm sure the number of hazing incidents in IFC and PHC will outnumber those of ethnic and multicultural orgs.

Whatever your issues are with Minorities or anyone else who strives to do something different, you seriously need to get over them.

I don't have anything against the Divine Nine because you're Service Organizations that also do social events. Add to that, you guys DO answer to a very strict governing body.

Exactly which body are you referring to? I'm eager to know. The ethnic orgs that do have a governing body are the Historically BGLOs as in Divine Nine, and the Latino Greek Council. Don't try and back out now!

For one, I'm Filipino.

Ok, I did go a little too far not calling them "real", but I know at my campus they do haze, very harshly, and in the open. We were at a supermarket at nigth and saw a multicultural sorority hazing their pledges there. I'm not going to say anything, but I know if it was IFC or PHC doing that, there'd be repurcussions. And having pledges both an Asian fraternity and Delta Sig, I know from my own experiences that ethnic GLOs do some pretty harsh stuff. On top of all that, IFC NEVER looked at my race as a factor, yet when I was pledging the Asian frat, all they'd tell me is "IFC is so racist, they'd never take guys like us"

I know that ethnic GLOs do good work in the community and what not, and I know some really cool people in them. I just think they should be governed the same way we are.

I know I'm just speaking from experiences at my school, but I know it's like this at other schools too. I know that's not enough experience to make a generalization (maybe), but from what i know and from talking to others, it's not fair.

Try and back out of what? I didn't see your post!?!?! :rolleyes:

The one at San Diego State is the USFC (United Soroity Fraternity Council), and governs all of the ethnic fraternities (except NPHC which exists but does not participate in other Greek Affairs with us). They do Greek Week with IFC and PHC, and occasionally either us or them will have a philantrophy and the other will attend, but that's it.

Cultural Relativism vs Universalism
 

I just don't think it's anyone's place to say how another organization should be "governed", especially when looking through the lens of your own org.

Re: Cultural Relativism vs Universalism
 

It's a lot easier to say that when you don't have IFC peering over your shoulder watching your every move.

Fine, whatever, it really doesn't matter to me.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong DeltaSigStan, but what I'm getting from what you are saying is that ethnic and MCGLOs should be governed the same way as GLOs regulated by NPC and IFC. Don't you think that depreciates from the value on diversity that these GLOs stand for?

Traditionally, ethnic and MCGLOs separated from NPC and IFC because they wanted something different and something more in tune for the values that they are looking for. You can even compare it to the way each and every one of us had searched for a GLO that we would be proud to call our own. By stating that you would prefer the ethnic and MCGLOs to be like NPC and IFC is just a little idealistic, especially since NPC and IFC act differently campus to campus to suit the needs that are found in those individulal campuses. Moreover, in wanting to have ethnic and MCGLOs to have the same governing bodies as NPC and IFC, you're stating point blank that such organizations just should have joined NPC and IFC and not have tried to branch out on their own.

I have the unique experience of being in an NPC sorority, but had looked strongly into being a part of an NPHC sorority, picking up information about the MCGLOs as I inquired. As a Filipina, I wanted to look into everything and make sure that I had covered all the bases. Unless one has explored the facets of each can one truly be able to state the facts. But does bashing or harsh criticism really help if it's not constructive? Answer that.

I DID do my homework. I pledged an Asian frat, and many of the things they did would get many other GLOs in major trouble. I know the procedure of rush is a lot different, but the process of pledging is the pretty much the same. If they're going to go through the same things, then they should be treated the same way by the powers that be!

Let me start off saying Sister DeeGeePee, you are off the chain!!!!

DeltaSigStan, if you pledged an Asian Fraternity, why are you going off on the same ethnic orgs that YOU wanted to be a part of? Are you having second thoughts about going IFC instead of ethnic? The last time I checked, this thread was for people who are in Up and Coming National Orgs.

lol leaving USFC was the best choice I ever made. I left because I didn't fit in with them. All they wanted to do is race Hondas and go to raves, which isn't me. Yeah that's fitting the stereotype, but it's true. It's my mistake and I admit to it. I never hung out with Asians in high school, so pledging an Asian frat was a bad idea.

I'm fine in my house. BUt I don't think it's fair that no one investigates the harsh treatment many of the USFC pledges get. It was pointless activities that would definitly constitue hazing. AND I know that if an IFC house were to do the same thing, they'd be watched and eventually all of it would be found.

Wow!! How did I miss this thread?

DeltaSigStan, it really depends on your campus. What goes on at your school is not the rule at all schools, like DeeGeePee stated in her post. Not all of us function that way.

Most LGLOs, MCGLOs, AGLOs, etc. have their own National governing body that they answer to. In most cases, Nationals has set guidelines that the chapter must abide by: having an advisor on campus, being recognized by/and in good standing with the university, being a member of a greek council on campus (on some campuses they fall in as associate/full members under one council or another), etc. This includes following the school's anti-hazing policies as well as the org's.

I was under the impression that in order to have events, use campus facilities, etc. a GLO must be recognized by the university. And, in order to be recognized that GLO must be a member of one of the greek councils. Maybe that's just a certain schools. I know that doesn't always solve the problem of hazing because even if you are not recognized on campus, you can still "function" so to speak. But, hey, it's something.

If the "ethnic" orgs on your campus are allowed to get away with certain things that other NPC/IFC orgs are not, whose fault is that? The squeaky wheel gets the oil. I'm not one for "ratting" on other organizations, but if it is such a huge issue and is out of control, then your greek coucil(s) needs to speak up.

Just to add to serenity, some schools, if a GLO isn't recognized as a part of whatever pan-hel council on campus, they are usually alowed to apply to be a special interest organization through the SGA. You still have to have members as a part of the SGA, which serves as the "larger governing body". But again, they don't have the regulations because they had the balls to go against the grain and start their own thing. Don't hate, congratulate! ;) :D

Wow! I must have been gone for awhile becuase I have a lot to catch up on....well I just want to say one thing about what has been said on this thread in particular to a certain Stan....

greek Chat is not about bashing other organizations and whether you thinik so or not that is exactly what you did, and yes I forgive you :)
however....greek chat is about learning about other GLOs and seeing how hey are different from yours and also the same.
Also to touch on a poitn ou made about Ethnic and Multicultural GLos not having to answer to anyone...let me joust speak about what I know...and thats my own sorority Theta Nu Xi Multicultural Sorority Inc.
We are governed by our national board which means that we do have rules and regulations by which we must abide. if we did not then obviously everything would be quite hectic.
At this current time my chapter is not underneath a governing body within the school but we are still recognized as a sorority and thus get treated as such.

Thanks you DeltaSigStan,,, you haev indeed made my day a bit more interesting....

that's pretty ignorant calling multicultural organizations fake GLO's.

from the way it sounds, you seem pretty resentful at the asian fraternity.

so to be a real organizations, you have to do social events? hmm...why don't you go and talk to the brothers of sigma pi phi? i'm pretty sure they don't throw parties like you guys, becuase they're about REAL business and not just getting drunk.

Well, if they can get away with what others can't then, I would have a problem with that.

I just think all greeks should be regulated the same way.

But since a few USFC chapters here are now on social probation, I guess they are now.

Re: pan-hel vs. non
 

As a sister in both a Pan-Hel and non organization (TBSigma-music ) I can say without a doubt that pan-hel has definite advantages. it totally lets you have more opportunities to be active and get your name out on campus. It also makes attracting individuals through rushing easier than trying to do your own rush and competing against theirs. (You get more people to choose from) Also, there is something about having a say in what is usually one of the largest collective organizations on campus... definitely nice to have an impact. Overall, I'd say it helps with the survival of and thriving of your organization.

In my school, TBS is struggling to stay alive, no matter what we do because there is little to no funding. We have to do all our recruiting by ourselves (when I joined there were 4 members, they're up to like 15 now), and because of all the extra work with no say of anything on campus, members often get frustrated, burnt out, and do not stay in longer than a few semester (we've had close to a 40-50% drop rate, in spite of our best efforts and group building activities, etc.). This is not limited just to my group. Other organizations, including but not limited to APhiO, PhiMuAlpha, SAI, Friars/Abbes, KKPsi, etc. are smaller than our IGC greek organizations, have MUCH smaller budgets, and less of an impact on the campus.

Perhaps this is just a phenomenon distinct to my campus, but I'd venture to say it isn't. (At conventions I see many other chapters of KKPsi/TBS are rather small too)

AXiD and most of our other GLO's in IGC are larger. And we've started 3 new groups since 3 years ago, PhiMu, BetaThetaPi, and SAE... all of them are growing like wildfire.

This is my first day in this chat forum, and I'm floored at this topic! I didn't realize there was so much resentment on both sides. I guess that makes me a naive alumna!

At my school, we had up-and-coming multi-cultural organizations that were oftentimes the most active in our events. We did mixers and other greek week events with them as well. As someone mentioned before, NPC sororities are considered to be traditionally white, this is probably because when they were started only whites were allowed in universities. I'm happy to say, that at least my organization has ignored this 'tradition'. We pledged Hispanic, Asian, and Arab, and I am proud of the diverse faces among my sisters! The only way to get rid of stereotypes is to quit perpetuating them.

Yes, the NPC is a major support for sororities, but obligation is no reason to join. I'm sorry if anyone has felt that they wouldn't be welcomed in an organization because of the color of their skin. I wish you all much luck in your endeavors

Adrienne

DeltA GammA


Forever my sister, forever my friend

Interesting Stuff
 

I was just avoiding homework and saw this thread. All of the posts are really interesting. I thought I would add my opinion to the mix. At my university, I can see how MCGLO and BGLO's would be considered "fake." In order to operate under the office of fraternity and sorority life at the university, you must be under an on campus governing council. The options here are PHC, IFC, NPHC, and UCFS. PHC contains only sororities that are a part of the NPC. Several MCGLO formed together to make the United Council of Fraternities and Sororities (UCFS), so that they would have a governing council and thus be recognized by the Office of Fraternity and Sorority Life. I see both sides, and have rushed an MCGLO and a NPC group. I value the experience that both offered, because I truly found where I belonged in Chi Omega.