Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?
 

I am a proud sister of Sigma Alpha Iota, an international music fraterity for women. We are a professional organization but in most ways, SAI is like social GLO's. We have ritual, rushing, pledging, pins and badges, songbooks, membership manuals, etc etc. We also have big and lil sisters...socials/sisterhood activities...colors, symbols, etc...we get those shirts with the letters on them, as well as other goodies like keybhains, decals, and lisence plates. So basically, SAI is pretty much like the traditional sororities, except that it is a "professional" organization and we are only open to musicians.

When I was pledging, one of the priveledges of membership we had to learn was to be esteemed as a fellow Greek by members of all other Greek letter organizations. However, I don't feel like the social GLOs, at least on OUR campus, really consider us Greek. But we very much are. We hold SAI and its ideals dear to our hearts and we cherish our sisterhood. SAI was founded in 1903, so it is as old as many of the social GLOs. But my experience with other Greeks is that they look down on us and one girl even told me that we weren't "real" Greeks. This made me very angry.

Music GLOs like Sigma Alpha Iota, Kappa Kappa Psi, Tau Beta Sigma, Phi Mu Alpha, Delta Omicron, etc are very much true Greeks and we all hold our sister/brotherhood dearly.

My question is this. To those of you in social fraternities/sororities, what is your view on the music GLOs? Do you really consider us Greek, and why or why not? Be completely honest, because I really want to know.

For me, you guys are Greek just like any organization. I know of a couple of chapters of orgs. that arent social ones and hold parties and do other stuff that you would normally see social greeks doing.

Yes and No.

While of course you are greek, and your ceremonies and such prove that.... youre not a social greek, so I dont see you as a peer group.

I guess it depends on your defination of "real." you are a real greek, as you are an intiated member, therefore, you're a real group.

I do not see you as a social greek tho, as 1, your membership is only open to music majors, 2)it is stated that you arent social in your constitution, and on my campus, you dont do the same things as social greeks, mixers, hang withthe other greeks (I have never seen a group of SAI's roll up to the Kappa Sig table to chill between classes.) 3) on my campus they're not well known outside of the Arts builidng, while the social greeks are known by people in all majors. They dont report nor are accountable to the greek advisor, and dont sit on a greek council, IFC PHC, or NPHC.

Adittionally, I dont believe that professional greeks have many chapters where they have active alumni associations, or housing corporations. All those things are what make social greeks to me, social.

now that doesnt mean that your membership means any less to you than mine does to me. I am sure your greek experiences are near and dear to you. They are just from a different setting than mine. However when we strip away the social aspects and who we hang out with, alums, school requirements, we are all probably very simular. We jsut experience our greek affilliations differently. Not better or worse, just differently.

PS: Also, clouding the picture a bit is the groups that have a foot in both camps, Triangle, the social engeneering and science fraternity, and farmhouse, the predominately ag social fraternity.

I would just like to let everyone know that SAI is in no way limited to music majors! About a third of our chapter doesn't major in music! The only requirement is that you have taken one music course ever in the history of your college life. That means, clapping for credit, music appreciation, marching band, ANYTHING musical....just letting you know....

And although I do consider SAI's fellow greeks (from my DZ point of view, not just 'cause I am also an SAI), I do not think that they are the same as social greeks. I get something totally different out of SAI than I do for DZ. The same goes for my membership in APO...Each group serves its own purpose.

Re: Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?
 

In many ways, I was lucky to have pledged Alpha Phi Omega at Georgetown University. We did not have a traditional Greek system, so pretty much every organization was treated equally.

Our chapter is the proud home of the Alpha Chapter of Delta Phi Epsilon Professional Foreign Service Fraternity (and Sorority). . .two business fraternities. . .several NPHC organizations. . .a few Latino orgs, as well as Alpha Phi Omega. While we all have different purposes and programs, I think we have a healthy respect for each other. I mean, the community is so small, we try to respect one another.

I feel your plight, sairose, because not every chapter of Alpha Phi Omega is as lucky as mine. Because the APO experience is so diverse, other Greeks don't always understand that some chapters are highly social, and some are not; that some chapters have strict pledging, and others do not; that some chapters step and stroll, and other don't. . . .

I guess what I'd like to say is that it doesn't matter what other people think of what and who your organization is as long as you stick to its principles the best way you know how. You know what SAI is all about, and I know what APO is all about. It is not up to anyone else to tell us how we should behave as members.

It depends on the campus.

On most campuses, professional and service GLO's are considered as greeks by non-greeks, however non-greeks by greeks (social). :confused:

My personal opinion
 

I do consider non-social Greek members to be Greek. All Greeks have 1 main goal, and that is to be the best that we absolutely can be. The difference between the different types of Greek organizations is that they all have different ways of running their organizations.

I do not consider them to be social Greeks. Yes, I do know that they do things that social Greek organizations do, but that does not make them a social Greek organization.

Of course, no type of Greek organization, whether it be social, service or music, is better than the others. They are all Greek.

Being an SAI is to me being more of a "greek" than some other GLO's (mainly honnor and some other professional orgs) I am very familliar with SAI and PMA Sinfonia (I am a sinfonian sweetheart!) and I must say I see them as greeks. Some chapters of Sinfonia have gone social. I think that is the way to go. Groups who have mostly the same structure as social GLO's should go social, because there is not that much difference in the two.

TG

Honestly, I consider these groups Greek because of their letters, but not necessarily "fellow greeks." They are more of a professional/interest groups. For example, Pyschology majors have "Psi Chi," and the Christian group has "Chi Alpha"...but they're not considered "real Greeks."

On my campus, sometimes these groups even look down upon social Greeks. We once had an awesome new member who was involved in band. She was pretty much leading a double life and lying to her band friends about us because she was afraid that they would look down upon her. She ended up de-pledging and joining the band sorority.

I'm sure that their ideals are just as important but, IMO, these non-social GLOs are just in a different category.

I was active in in both Tau Beta Sigma (band/music) and Phi Mu while in college. I was in Tau Beta Sigma first and I have to say that when I was only in TBS I didn't consider myself "greek." The group was social and very active around campus and the community but the sisters didn't consider themselves "greek peers" either. Not to be crass, but on our campus (FSU) unless you were a social greek then you weren't considered greek. In fact, and I am sorry to admit this, the non-social GLOs were actually looked down upon b/c they were often seen as trying to "act greek". At times it was very hard to be active in both organizations as well as other extracurriculars b/c the 2 GLOs didn't understand the need for membership in the other. I wouldn't change my experience at all though b/c I learned so much and have tight, irreplacable friendships in both groups.

Re: Non-social GLOs...do you honestly consider us fellow Greeks?
 

Speaking as a member of a HBGLO, we're not social GLOs, we're moreso community service GLOs (that enjoy the social aspects, too). I thought the same applied to the IFC and NPC, but perhaps I was mistaken. When we speak of social GLOs, many of us are speaking of Groove Phi Groove, Swing Phi Swing (check www.everythingblack.com if you're not familiar), and (usually) music fraternities such as yours.

I can speak for myself only, and some may agree with me. I don't see a music fraternity as being a GLO or HBGLO as I would Kappa Kappa Gamma or my own (Delta Sigma Theta), despite the fact that you have adopted some traditions and rituals.

At the same time, I don't see you in the same light as I would an honorary (such as a law fraternity). I definitely do not see honoraries as GLOs (eventhough they would be, technically).

Is your membership in this international music fraternity for women perpetual?


Much Love!

about SAI.....some people on here have some misconceptions
 

First of all, SAI has many, many active alumni chapters! Someone on here said they didn't, but we do. In fact our chapter works hand in hand with our local alum chapter.

SAI is not a service or honorary organization. It is not an honor society. It's name is Sigma Alpha Iota International Music Fraternity for Women. Anyone who would like to learn more can go to www.sai-national.org.

SAI is NOT only for music majors. In our chapter, about one third of the girls are not music majors. One is an early childhood education major, one is a marketing major, etc etc. It is not for music majors but for women with an INTEREST in music.

And I didn't mean that social GLOS should see us as fellow SOCIAL greeks. I just mean, do you guys consider us greeks in general. Because I consider all five social sororities on our campus(Alpha Gamma Delta, Alpha Omicron Pi, Delta Zeta, Phi Mu, and Chi Omega)fellow greeks even though they are different from us.

Because if you think about it, all Greeks share, to some degree, the same ideals. We all want to be the best we possibly can be. We all share a bond as sisters(or brothers) that we hold dear to us. We all had to earn our letters by rushing, pledging, and initiation.

Love and roses again!
SAIrose

non-social GLO's
 

On our campus, where we have 5 fraternities, 2 sororities, and 2 "non-social" GLO's. (APO, and SAI)

On our campus, those two organizations are not part of either of the greek governing institutions(IFC and Panhel), and "take part" in greek week normaly by adding members of their organizations to other teams, so they don't have unified teams(they usualy don't have enough to field an entire team for the large events). there is a large greek BBoard in one of our main hallways. But both SAI and APO have their own boards, seperate from the main greek board. When matters come up that affect the greek system, they are not usualy considered part of it--both by choice and that the greek matters come up to the IFC and panhel councils, and doesn't reach them.

One of my main complaints is the ability to be in 2, or even 3 greek organizations with the SAI and APO duel membership options. I know a couple people who are in a sorority, and are also in SAI and APO. 3 rituals, initations. etc. I personaly would not feel comfortable joining another greek organization, for a number of reasons. One of the biggest being--I have great loyalty to the orgnizations I join. I would not be able to put my "all" into the other organizations. I am a Sigma Nu. I would not feel comfortable saying I am a Sigma Nu and a APO.

I do not consider them "real greeks" as you put it, for those reasons. I do not look down on them. But were they to ask to join IFC or panhel, I would be against it. I don't mind them being in Greek week, or participating in large "all greek" things, as long as they put in work and effort as well.

M.

Re: non-social GLO's
 

I think many people share that sentiment. We can not be a member of more than one GLO. While organizations such as APO are TECHNICALLY Greek lettered organizations, people can join these organizations AND be a member of an orgnization within the IFC, NPC, or NPHC. So, this would make the distinction.

The last 2 posts say it all. If SAI, for example, were a member of Panhellenic and bound by our rush rules--and if women couldn't join another GLO besides SAI, then social Greek members would be more likely to consider them "truly Greek". As people have noted here, many hold dual membership in both social GLOs and SAI.

I really doubt that any social Greek would go up to an SAI, though, and taunt them with "Nah, nah, you're not really Greek." It wouldn't occur to me to bring that up and I've only answered it here because we were asked!

I think the "are we really Greek" will get different reactions from different people, depending on what they consider "really Greek." If you asked Joe Blow on the street what a Greek organization is, he'd probably say a group of men or women that live together in a house and have selective membership policies. Just by that definition APO is disqualified since we do not have "official" houses. We also do not have selective membership (but you do have to complete the requirements of the pledge program to initiate).

I honestly have closer bonds with my ASA sisters than my APO brothers, but there are APO brothers from my chapter who lived together (as I did w/ my sisters) and are every bit as close to each other.

ASA started out somewhat like SAI, as a social-educational sorority. We eventually came to the conclusion that what we did was practically identical to what the purely social sororities did and joined NPC. I believe AXO started out musically based. Who knows, maybe 100 years from now if SAI has lots of chapters that are leaning more toward what NPC does, they will do the same thing.

I put NPC, NIC and NPHC groups in the same category (since "social" seems to be a dirty word anymore) since they are all groups where one has to be invited to join on intangible merits (other than just grades). Maybe not the most PC way to put it but it's the only thing that fits.

Re: Re: non-social GLO's
 

Excellent point! :)

interesting
 

You and the Baird's Manual. I wish there was a word we could use to call NPC, IFC, NPHC, and non-umbrella-ed organizations similar to those.

I'll stop there because I don't want to get into another debate about the definition of "social fraternities" and the NPHC. PM me with questions.

Re: interesting
 

I don't see why we need to find a particular word or phrase to refer to these organizations. I say refer to them as GLOs---but then, people have different definitions of what a GLO is (hence the current thread).

There's no debate associated with the definition of "social fraternities" and the NPHC.

Re: Re: interesting
 

Chaos, here comes a PM.

non-social GLO's
 

i don't talk down non-social GLOs, because they don't really do anything as organizations with our socials, here at least. we'd be like a machine if the business, honor, and service GLOs worked more with social. we share a lot of the same member base.

by the way, FarmHouse letters, "F" and "H", aren't Greek and not EVERYBODY looks down on us. :p

Re: interesting
 

For someone who is NOT A MEMBER of an NPHC group to tell members of NPHC groups that we are not service organizations is pretty damn bold. To say, in essence, that we don't know what our own purposes & missions are, is flat out INSULTING. If you PERSONALLY don't think we're service organizations, you're entitled to that OPINION but realize that your opinion is not fact.


Getting back to the topic @ hand, I do consider members of groups like KKPsi, TBS, APO, GSS, Phi Mu Alpha, etc. greek, but not in the same vein as NPHC, NPC or IFC groups for many of the same reasons Delta_theta stated. Like Delta_theta, I do not look down on them (or anyone) based on their membership choice nor do I try to disuade members of those orgs from calling themselves greek if they choose to.

Re: Re: interesting
 

"I wish there was a word we could use to call NPC, IFC, NPHC, and non-umbrella-ed organizations similar to those. "

I apologize if you felt insulted by a proposition for a term that connects those said organizations. That is all I meant by my post, nothing more. For clarification, I was referring to a term that could unify those organizations that are selective, that "one has to be invited to join on intangible merits" as 33girl said, and that forbid membership in other like organizations, whether social or service oriented in nature, or a mixture of the two.

Obviously, the term "social" is not palatable to some members of NPHC organizations, and "service" also has a different connotation.

Again, the statements "social" and "service" are only meant to categorize those organizations on the criteria that I mentioned above, not my personal opinion on whether you are service organizations or not.

Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Actually, that's not what I'm offended by. I'm recalling your comments and the comments of other APOs in the "Dual Membership" thread and considered the part of your reply that I quoted a reference to that. Forgive me if it wasn't.

Social is not palatable because that's not what we are. In all honesty, we're a blend of all types of GLOs: service, social, professional, and academic because of the circumstances surrounding our foundings. By the way, what connotation does "service" have? For that matter, what connotation does "social" have? And how accurate are we in continuing to classify organizations in this manner?

Re: Re: non-social GLO's
 

This is becoming an issue for many people, including me, in non-social GLO's. We often (not always!) have people from social GLO's who join our GLO's, run for EC positions, sometimes win them, yet they are non-committed. They put their social GLO before us, which is fine I understand, but they ALWAYS do it. Also, they often segregate themselves within our chapter. Stuff like that prevent chapters from progressing.

What is the hidden agenda? Application fillers?

And, again this does not pertain to all, however the number who do is too large.

I can imagine it is hard for others to understand how people like me are in multiple organizations. Sometimes, there are circumstances involved that you don't know about. For instance, I pledged APO my freshman year. Spring of the next year, I started at the school where I graduated (yesterday...you may congratulate me :) ) and rushed and joined a social sorority (DZ). I met some of the APO member at my new university and did not click with them at all, so I did not affiliate, although I am still behind the national org. Fast forward to last year when I was asked to help bring SAI back to our school. It had gone inactive years before and all of those people were long gone, so there was an interest in restarting. I helped get the chapter back on its feet. My experience in both DZ and APO was much needed and appreciated when it came to re-establishing SAI on my campus.

I am devoted to each organization I join. As I said in an earlier post, the benefits I get from each organization are different, although they do have some small similarities. I know it may look strange for people to see so many letters by my name, but I feel that I exemplify those letters to the fullest.

Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

I just realized that there is indeed a term that I am looking for. It is called "General Fraternities." This is the term used in the Baird's Manual of American College Fraternities. It includes NPC, NPHC, IFC, and any organization with those same criteria that i mentioned before.

I haven't seen a copy of Baird's recently because it is out of print so the term wasn't as fresh in my mind as it should have been.

I apologize for any previous misunderstandings and I will say "General Fraternity or Sorority" from now on when I mean IFC, NPC, and NPHC collectively, along with similar organizations without an umbrella.

Also for your information, the categories of organizations in Baird's are General, Professional (Music, Business, etc.), Recognition (APO, GSS), and Honor Societies. "Social" and "Service" are not used.

Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Thanks, buddy, I hope you received mine...look forward to the dialogue :)

Re: Re: Re: non-social GLO's
 

I can completely understand how this would be an issue for your chapter and possibly other chapters/organizations. In dealing with dual memberships, the "more important" membership (which would be personal opinion) is going to get priority. Therefore, you may have someone who holds key roles in both an organization within the NPC and APO (for example). Sometimes, one role, or the other, will not get attention.

To be honest with you, depending on the university, the organizations that do not fall within the IFC, NPC, and the NPHC are not taken seriously. They often have to FIGHT for acknowledgement and respect. So, if you want to be seen in the same light as, say Delta Gamma or Delta Sigma Theta, the dual membership issue would have to be resolved.

For many, membership in a band fraternity is the equivalent of membership in a glee club. Again, that depends, because I see some campuses (particularly HBCUs) where Kappa Kappa Psi (band fraternity) membership is no joke! I was in a pre-law and criminal justice fraternity. That membership was on my resume, but not anywhere in my heart...I knew nothing about the crest (which was public knowledge). It was another club membership. I'd laugh if someone came to me who took such a pre-law or criminal justice fraternity membership seriously and as if it were an actual GLO. That's my $19.13, though.

Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

I sent you a response, but your inbox is full! Oh well, in a nutshell: THANKS!!! I think GLO is an appropriate term for all of us and then General, Professional, Recognition, and Honor when we mean specifically those. Not everyone will be happy, but at least those terms are inclusive of all the groups we really are referring to.

Re: non-social GLO's
 

Maybe this was an issue on my campus. When I was Vp of IFC, I was in charge of publicity. We were having a speaker come and present. All the student orgs were invited. I went to put up a poster in the galleria of the Arts building - outreach, to be inclusive of groups that might have been overlooked or excluded in the past. My poster, (which measured exactly 24 x 36 inches) lasted for 2 days in the arts building before the greek advisor got a phone call from the division director of the department of music, telling him "you greeks stay outta our building. We dont want you all in here. Leave us alone. No more of your posters in here either." :eek: I never did figure out what that was about...

So at the time (3 years ago) it seemed to me that the musical greeks had no interest in building bridges, and we left it at that. The interesign part is that now when you walk through the Arts building the SAI letters are right where my poster once hung. I dig the irony.

My university is pretty political, and they have this wierd thing where everyone wants to feel involved and have input. Instead of just hanging the poster, I should have made a meeting withthe division director, and presidents of the music orgs, explained what we wanted to do and invite their orgs to co-host the event with us. :rolleyes: I tend to be way more pragmatic than all that, and found all that stuff silly. Thats why I left student leadership roles on my campus. You spent more time kissing ass than for the actual event. I did learn this is how many businesses work, and am glad for the experience but dont have time or energy for all that junk.

I do wish we could all work together to achieve our common goals. We could find potential recruits in both camps, and the larger, more visible presence could only be a benefit for the both of us.

Now thats my $23.49 ;)

That's an interesting point, TG. I guess the only thing that prevents me from standing up and saying "let's go PHC!" is I wonder how many PHC PNMs would be interested in sorority with such definite musical aims. For purpose of discussion, here are the Purposes of SAI:

• TO FORM chapters of women college students and alumnae who have a sincere interest in music.
• TO UPHOLD the highest standards of music.
• TO FURTHER the development of music in America and throughout the world.
• TO GIVE inspiration and encouragement to members.
• TO ORGANIZE the cultural life of Sigma Alpha Iota members as a contributing factor to their educational growth.
• TO SUPPORT the ideals and goals of the member's Alma Mater;
• TO ADHERE to the highest standards of citizenship in school, community and fraternity life.

....and the Mission Statement and Vision:

"The Vision of Sigma Alpha Iota, International Music Fraternity, is to be recognized throughout the world as the foremost fraternity that:

• Supports and encourages women musicians of all ages, races, and nationalities
• Supports and promotes successful and innovative educational programs in music for all stages of life
• Cultivates excellence in musical performance
• Promotes programs and activities that stress the love and importance of music in our lives
• Recognizes technological advances in the field of music
• Dedicates financial resources that ensure the continuation of programs necessary to support the objectives of the fraternity in perpetuity
• Has as its members people who exemplify professional and ethical behavior in the spirit of the Sigma Alpha Iota founders."

To add to all that, SAI is open to women who "demonstrate a sincere interest in music", have a GPA of at least 2.5, have taken at least 1 credit hour in music, as well as the usual "intangibles."

Personally, I think your average, non-musically-inclined PNM might be turned off by all that. Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Any thoughts, people?

Actually, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia is a social fraternity, as is Sigma Alpha Iota.

Phi Mu Alpha was founded in 1898 as a social fraternity, albeit a social fraternity geared toward men studying or interested in music. During the mid-twentieth century, the Fraternity began to act more like a professional fraternity and to consider itself such, although it never required that members be music majors or minors. (There are chapters now with no music majors or minors in them.) This shift was in full swing by the 60’s and 70’s, although the Fraternity always kept a foot in the “social” side. In many ways, it acted more like a “social” then a “professional.”

Then came Title IX, which required single-sex professional fraternities to go co-ed. Two of the music sororities, Mu Phi Epsilon and Delta Omicron, did just that. Sigma Alpha Iota sought and received from the federal Department of Education a determination that it is a “social” sorority, and thus stayed all-female. Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia decided in the early 80’s to place itself firmly on the “social” side as well; it also received a ruling from the DoE that it is a social fraternity. Most “professional” references were removed from all Fraternity documents and publications at that time, although there is still some “clean up” going on.

Phi Mu Alpha has not joined the North-American Interfraternity Conference, although I understand that consideration has been given to doing that. Nor has it ever amended the Constitutional prohibition on membership in any other music fraternity, as opposed to any other general fraternity. Individual chapters can decide on their own whether to join their campus’s interfraternity council (or similar group) and be bound by such things as rush rules. My understanding is that many have done so and more are exploring the idea. Other chapters operate much like they always have, somewhat to themselves. On some campuses, then, Phi Mu Alpha still looks somewhat like other professional fraternities. On other campuses, Phi Mu Alpha is virtually indistinguishable from the other social fraternities - except for all the singing. ;) In any event, Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia is a social fraternity.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Yeah, I tried to clean out my inbox (it's not my fault that I'm popular). I agree completely. Afterall, I never knew (under reading this thread) that organizations such as APO and music fraternities even wanted to be considered in the same light as other GLOs. So, you learn something everyday and as soon as we think we have a term to describe all, there's something new.


You can send me a PM if you like---I have told my loyal fans to cut back, so my box should be empty ;)

I do know of at least one chapter of Sinfonia that has joined the local IFC and participate in rush just like every other IFC chapter on campus. Granted their numbers are highly musical, but like has been stated about SAI, not everyone is a music major. My roommate is a Sinfonian and a film major and his old roommate was a drama major.

The school I am attending now has a small greek system and we could stand some of the "social/special interest" groups becoming active. I think it would bennifit all of the greeks.

TG

My View on it...
 

At my school, Gamma Sig is cool with most of the greeks on campus. But it certainly wasn't like that in the beginning when I brought it on the campus. It was expected because we do have the lines, the calls, the handsigns, and nationally my sorority doesn't operate this way (only a few GSS chapters do). I knew going in that some people's eybrows would raise, and I was ready for the comments. However, we just did our service and respected the greeks on the campus, and we earned theirs in time.
We participate in certain events (not Greek Week) when invited and we also do the same with our events.

I think it just varies from campus to campus-there are greeks on my campus who can't understand why I have to say "We're not greek" in the traditional sense. So instead I say, "We just don't belong to a council, but we can still support".

Nationally, Gamma Sig cannot join ANY greek council on that respective campus UNLESS it's necessary for that chapter to function on that campus. Gamma Sig actually did seek to affiliate with PHC in the 60's, but decided not to because the sorority wanted to keep membership open to everyone, which they couldn't do because of Rush regulations/membership regulations.

I feel that even though I'm a "service" greek (IMO, everyone that's greek is just as committed to serving as I am), I'm still greek like everyone else. I take pride in my sorority and the things we do and have done for others, just like every other greek does.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: interesting
 

Umm...not really. We like being unique, however we do want to be taken seriously.

Yes, even APO wanted to be a "social" Greek
 

Chaos,

From a LEGAL standpoint, the NPHC greeks are considered social in that they are single gender AND you cannot join another NPHC greek org. Be grateful that you are social on that aspect because someone could state that because you are not a social org, you have to be co-ed and that could start TROUBLE for your org (although that would be highly unlikely)

But yes, APO did try to be a social org for Title 9 purposes

Check it out

[/B][/QUOTE]July 1976 APO Board minutes

Keep Greek Chat postin'



[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChaosDST
[B]Yeah, I tried to clean out my inbox (it's not my fault that I'm popular). I agree completely. Afterall, I never knew (under reading this thread) that organizations such as APO and music fraternities even wanted to be considered in the same light as other GLOs. So, you learn something everyday and as soon as we think we have a term to describe all, there's something new.


You can send me a PM if you like---I have told my loyal fans to cut back, so my box should be empty ;)

That's an interesting question. After all, Triangle (engineering) and FarmHouse (agriculture) have managed to thrive in the NIC, and they have a limited focus sort of like SAI. But I think there has always been more room for diversity in the NIC ... after all, one of the NPHC fraternities is a member, and that would never happen in the NPC, because the NPHC sororities would have to sign on to participate in formal rush and other sorts of things. So I could easily see Phi Mu Alpha joining NIC, but SAI joining NPC would be more difficult.

Not saying we wouldn't want you if you were interested! But membership in the NPC involves a lot of rules and regs and it would mean some big changes for SAI.