Double cohort
 

As the Canadians, especially those of us in ontario are aware, the double cohort is on its way after next year. This will make getting into unversities harder and also increase the level of incomers every year for the net few years which i will describe below.

1) Obviously two graduating classes means more kids so you have all the kids coming out of hs right then

2) kids taking a year off to avoid the double cohort

3) kids going to college and trhen coming to university afterwards

4) kids in the military getting work experience before they go to university. This has been known to happen in the US

Even kids that dont go to school in ontario will end up increasing the enrollments at places like UBC and Mcgill somewhat tho it will be nothing compared to Queen's, UofT, Ottawa, Western etc.

Increased numbers of kids will get athletic scholarships to places like Michigan State (look at the number of canadian women on their rowing team) so that will have a slight effect on enrollment south of the border.

This can be a great time for the greek system because more kids = more PNMs. As i said above, it will affect not just this year's enrollments but the years to come as well, not to mention kids going to grad schools. This means that there will be a spike of incoming students my 4th year that will be larger than the spike of the kids in my class over the one before us and we have 1000 more people in 0T5 in 0T4.

How will this affect the greek system in Canada and the northern states (Michigan for example) in terms of membership and visibility. Do you guys think that the greek system can have an increased level and increased participation due to the double cohort? Will this be a spark of a renaissance of the greek system?

Is there a chance that perhaps Maclean's will include some thing in the annual issue if the head of that issue;s son becomes part of a greek organization or simply to put it in there to better benefit parents of the double cohort year?

Will the greek organizations recruit aggresively (I don't mean to say recruit in a negatuive way but make their presence known) and do you guys think that the level of membership will rise? UofT offers residence space to every incoming frosh but they still house kids in the Primrose so I think fraternities at schools such as mine can make a push to get themselves recognized or at least allowed more recruiting and point out that residence is crammed but fraternities still have rooms available some of which go out to boarders. Allow fraternity and sorority material to be in the acceptance packages as well as frosh kids.. let kids know about the greek system

If the university agrees to the above in the cohort year, do you guys think that maybe some universities will be able to establish colonies, thus somewhat offseting to a degree the problems that will be faced in residence accomodations? This would benefit all three parties involved: the student; the university; and the greek organizations.

Because this seems to be a golden oppurtunity for the greek system, will alumni activity and involvement increase?

I'm sorry that this is long but it all came out of reading that one thread on quotas. The largest fraternity here has maybe 20-30 kids living in the house and my sports team had less than 10 guys, most of whom were first year (one graduated this year and the other graduates after next year) while there were 40-50 kids on my hs varsity crew (all guys) and many frats in the states have twice the number of kids living in the house as does the local Beta Thete Pi chapter.

Double Cohort
 

As a Pi Phi at the University of Guelph, I hope the double cohort increases the number of PNM's. At Guelph, greek life isn't very big, and sometimes we don't feel welcome on campus. We don't have club status, and at my school, that mkaes it very difficul to inform people about Greek life. We have one soroity and frat. Maybe the double cohort will increase Pi Beta Phi's and the Detla Upsilon's membership. Who knows, maybe this will mean other fraternities and sororities will emerge on our campus, and on others.


Pi Phi love and Mine,

Emily


Gamma Chi - Sharing Common Themes from Around the World

Re: Double Cohort
 

that was another thing i was wondering about: will new chapters be founded, say at places like McGill?

It certainly would be in the best interests of the schools to at least recognize these fraternities because they help the community but can also help out in terms of housing and such.. I wonder if it's an Ontario wide policy that universities must provide residence for incoming freshman.. i know this is the case at the premier schools- Queen's and UofT.. i think some of the other schools do it as well.

Double Cohort
 

Well hopefully, the universities will see GLO's as a positive aspect of their campuses and university life. I know in Guelph, not only does the university not want to recognize us, but their is a city by-law aswell, preventing us from having a house. And if by chance, we could get a round that, we would not be allowed to place letters on the house, again preventing us from advertising. The Pi Phi's and DU's are fighting hard at Guelph to changin this, but it looks like it'll be a tough, lenthy battle.


PPL,

Emily

Double?
 

As an uninformed American, what's a double cohort?:D

If a cohort is 1 person to each other, would a double cohort be 3 or 4 people? :)

Re: Double?
 

ahhh the redundancy.... jk.... I was born in the back of a greyhound bus rollin down highway 41.....;)

well the usual cohort here is the OACers but OAC is going into its last year this upcoming year.... I wonder if CEGEP will be elimanated too?

Am I the only one that thinks it (elimanation of OAC) was just something to help solve some of the b!tching by the teachers about overcrowded schools etc?

Re: Re: Double?
 

Um, that didn't clear anything up at all.

Re: Re: Re: Double?
 

No more 5th year after this year thus the double cohort. Twice as many idiotic freshman as this year! how fun!

Delta Baby: a few years back the Provincial gov't of Ontario made dramatic cuts to education (3 bil. at the time i believe) and healthcare. The logic was that Ontario, being the only province with 5 years of high school, should be able to eliminate a year of high school to save money and be on par with the rest of Canada.

Now, this 5th year of high school is referred to as O.A.C. (ontario academic credit) and is kind of a transition period between grade 12 and university. Only those planning on studying University need to take OAC courses - courses catered to what you plan on studying in the future (e.g. engineers would take OAC Calculous, A&G, Physics, etc.).

Because there is a full year being eliminated, for one year (not this fall the next one) there will be two graduating high school classes in Ontario (which represents almost 40% of Canada's total population). Therefore, there's been a lot of questions being raised whether the universities have enough placements in the classrooms and also in residence. Most agree that a lot of ppl will be rejected because of questions regarding the differences in admissions among the two classes, as well universities do not want to lower their admission grades to accomodate the extra numbers. Also, it should be noted that universities in Canada are too over-crowded, there needs to be more even if we don't take into account the double-cohort.

There's several implications for this:

1. Apart from the ripple affect of increased kids into university for the next few years, these kids will also be graduating around the same time, therefore meaning increased competition for jobs when they all graduate together.

2. For the first time in years, the majority of first year students will not be able to legally drink in Ontario when classes start in the fall. The social aspect of fraternities will be greatly enhanced from now on.

wonder if it's an Ontario wide policy that universities must provide residence for incoming freshman..

Are you bonkers?!? Here at Ottawa the housing situation is ridiculous - for all students. Since coming into university at Ottawa 4 years ago i had no problem getting into rez even with average grades. Since then, each year has witnessed dramatic reductions in housing vacancies than the previous year. At the middle of august there were a waiting list for residence among first year students equal to the total amount of places available (the waiting list was over 2,000). Even with the construction of a brand-new residence, the number of students unable to find a place to live is staggering...kids are taking years off school because they couldn't find a place to stay. I feel like hacking into the OttawaU website with a heading: "Don't come to OttawaU or Carleton, there is no where to live!".

p.s. i'm surprised you canadians use the term frat so frequently...

Rez
 

Last year i was offered space at Western, Mac, UofT and ottawa.. but then i coasted uin hs and got grades most canadians would love.. 83 overall avg while lettering in two sports. UofT was the only one not to offer scholarship money. I didn;t know the housing market was so tight in ol ottawa.. i used to live in the glebe.. now a real ritzy area of town.

At Guelph, all first years are guarenteed rez spaces if they get their application in on time. They even built new residences, but get this, only second years and up can live in it. If housing is such a problem why build housing that frosh can't live in. Most people at Guelph move off campus anyway in their second year.
I can see the double cohort as being a big problem, but maybe we're making it out to be much more of an issue than it really is. My brother is in the double cohort year. He's the last class to do OAC. However, he's not planning on going to school after he graduates. He's planning on taking at least a year off to work, and to travel and decide what he wants to do. Most likely he'll go to college, because that's what's going to get him a job. After I graduate I'm planning on going to college. Cause really, what am I going to do with a BA?
Because Greek life isn't a huge part of university life in Canada, especially on my campus, using frat or sorority housing, might be a problem. Guelph isn't allowed to have houses for GLO's.
Kids are graduating earlier, but maybe they think twice about going to school right after they graduate because of the increased number of students. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.


PPL,

Emily

P.S Lil_G what's wrong with using the term frat? Why are you surprised?

Well, are you going to college or university, what about the brother?

And he fits into the class I described as taking a year off thus also causing a spike in the next year's graduating class. I myself may take a year off and travel or work or do whatever.. Personally I wouldn't mind taking a year off and writing an oral biography of my old hs. Great way to build contacts and also learn a hell of a lot at the same time.

Lot more kids of course will be applying to grad school at the same time so maybe kids'll join them or still be active members. I think it would be wise for UofT to include some stuff on greek systems or at least the greeeks to advertise themselves because this is a mammoth institution where one can easily get losr and is a largely commuter school. I'm not saying allow them to contact prospective frosh right away but let them know that there is a small and yet not small community (the chapter and then fraternity or chapter and then greek system) that they can be a part of which will make it seem like a smaller school despite the U's massive size and this being the biggest city in the country. Let them put stuff in admissions pacakges.

Put a few things in the acceptance package. Encourage students to come to the university who are community minded because not only will the fraternity be able to foster that, the University will probably take advantage of it every way it can just like it does with its sports teams which receive (in my experience) almost ero support. We ashould be broadening our minds during this crucial phase of life not limiting it because a university does not like the fact the organizations only admit single sexes. Hart house just went co-ed which means i paid more in my tuition and fees than did females so that I could be a member. Is that not the same thing? Is that not also admitting people who are the same sex into an organization?

Besides, being reocgnized (tho not neccessarily supporteed) by the UofT means that it would be that much more of an impetus for members to have a positive impact on the community and the city thus raising reputation, visibility and membership.

The only times I saw them were during frosh week and a few times during the year when I'd see a guy in a fraternity.. other than that i never really saw them at all.

Sometimes being in a single sex environment is very helpful to a person;s growth and development. i myself went to an all male school (wasn't it only in the 1880's or even later like 1930's that UofT went co-ed? ND went coed in 68 i think as well as places like yale and princeton) and i must say i ahd the best time of my life and that includes my stay in rome. i didn't neccesarily like all the guys or all the teachers or some of my experiences but it brought me onto the water and onto the wrestling amt two things for which i am eternally grateful. i liked the fact it was single sex. The atmosphere was more laid back and i felt more comfortable because i wasnt nervous around some chick i liked etc. I would say that to deny GLO's recognition of existence based primarily on whether they are all male or all female seems a little misguided. St Mike's has totally segregated dorms with 2 female buldings and a large amount of all guy rez buildings. Why not make SMC go coed or Trin? It seems ludicrous to me and hurts both the GLOs and the University

UofT and other schools dont neccessarily have to support these organizations but just recognize that they exist and that both the glos and university can peacefully coexist, one working off the strength of the other for the benefit of both parties involved. like it says in my signature the worth of the state in the long run is the worth of the individuals composing it.

I'm not in the double cohort, actually I just finished my third year at the University of Guelph. My brother is taking a year off to decide what he wants to do. And actually I would recommend that to most people. One of the biggest mistakes I made was going to University after I graduated ffrom HS.
While it's true that the institution does not have to support GLO's, it is nice that they are recognized, and that they seen over campus. UofT is good in that way, and the same with UWO. Guelph, on the other hand, does neither. it does not support us, and it certainly doesn't recognize us. We have difficulty making it known that we even exist on campus. On my campus that's what needs to be changed. The city of Guelph doesn't even want to recognize us. Fraternity houses are banned in the city of Guelph. There is one, from the Vet college, that was there before the city instituted this by-law.
For other schools, it would be nice if the institution would recognize GLO's, in my case, we first have to get the city to recognize us.

the same is true at Queen's... they banned fraternities back in 1933!

Just Wondering Something
 

I'm just wondering what school chscrew144 goes to. Obviously it's in Ontario, or you wouldn't be talking about this because not a great amount of Ontario students go out of Province (McGill, Dal and UBC may be the main exceptions). Personally here at U of T I don't think it will affect fraternity life as much as we hope it might. We're non-existant in the minds of many students and the university will never recognize us (Student council has, but that's because most of it is Greek now; the SAC prez is a Deke). I have a feeling that the double cohort of OAC and grade 12 students will help GLOs at schools like Carleton, UWO, Ottawa U, Waterloo, Laurier and possibly even Guelph since the age of freshman is going to be 17-18 and they may find that fraternity life will be their way of have a social life. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Kris
Sig Pi
University of Toronto

PS. Sorry to all you Yanks that don't know what the hell us hosers are talkin about.

For the confused Americans...
 

For the Americans who are confused by this strange Canadian phenomena!....

In almost all of Canada, you are done high school after grade 12.
Then, after grade 12, you can enter university (provided you have decent grades, of course ;) ).

HOWEVER.......In the province of Ontario, for many years, they also had Grade 13. (Don't ask me why...I am a British Columbian and my Toronto friends tried to explain it to me and I would zone out by the 3rd sentence)

Grade 13 has now been phased out. From here on in, kids will graduate after Grade 12, not Grade 13. However, you still have that last gasp of kids in Grade 13, the last ever grad class of Grade 13'ers.

So for this one year, universities are having kids coming from Grade 12 AND Grade 13, so you have twice as many kids ready to start university at once, hence the problem with space.

This is what is being discussed, and most of the Canadians on this specific thread are from Ontario (Toronto, Ottawa and Guelph) ....

Hope that cleared it up! :)

P.S. Grade 13 = OAC, which stands for Ontario Academic Credit...I think

OAC
 

OAC is actually, Ontario Academic Course.

it hasn't been called Grade 13 in like 30 years or so. It was a complete waste of time, and it should have been phased out earlier. It should have been phased out after they got rid of the provincial exams. Oh well, I suffered through and managed to get 9 credits, even though I only needed 6.

My freshman-year roommate was from Ontario. Her OAC year wasn't a complete waste of time, as she managed to place out of many of her freshman classes (much to my, our other roommate's, and her pledge sisters' envy :) ). But she spent most of her time whining about how she wasn't allowed to place out of ALL her freshman classes and how she wasn't given sophomore standing... (I think she wanted a single :) )

From a dumb American's perspective :) the OAC year sounds very much like tacking on an extra year of HS during which you just take a bunch of AP courses. Hmm, sounds like how I spent 12th grade :) So eliminating it sounds like a good thing.

Re: Just Wondering Something
 

Even if not a great amoutn go out of province that still means that more kids will, maybe some for sports some for academics and some for a mixture of both of those too but certainy UBC, McGill, Dal and Mount allison (i should've applied there...) will experience growth... not to the level of say UWO or Ottawa or Queen's but a larger growth than usual.

UofT's double cohort page
 

Sure, if you go to school in the US, the OAC might be a good thing. But like most Canadian we stay here, so those with OAC feel many firt year courses are a waste because we've pretty much done them already.

Purpose of OAC
 

OAC was intended as a bridging year to give kids going into university some time to cope with a harder courseload while still in the small confines and warm environment of a hs with kids and teachers they knew instead of being thrust into small towns.

it used to be that you could do a BA in 3 years but they discontinued that for my class. Now you have to do an honours ba if you are just registering but the class ahead of me can still graduate next year if they wish.

OAC can still be used to improve social, academic and atheltic skills as many coaches from the US find ontario recruits much sharper than American counterparts and being a year olde rthey have that much more time to improve their game which is always a plus. The elimination of OAC will certainly see an influx in talent coming into the US for a while as well, most notably in hockey, rowing, lacrosse and other major Canadian sports.

Quebec has Cegep for reasons that i am not aware of and some schools in the states (Blair Academy, Exeter, SPS, Groton, BBN) offer a PG year for students to raise marks and SAT scores to qualify for athletic scholarships in the states but these PG schools are generally private prep schools.

3 year BA
 

As far as I know. UofT is the only school that eliminated the 3 year BA. But I'm sure other schools are on their way to doing the same thing.

Re: 3 year BA
 

well, for me that's the only school that matters at the moment lol i wish I hadnt fucked up this year but I am hoping not to have to finish my degree but rather possibly taking a year off and applying to grad school during or after 3rd year... I definitely need to raise my average tho... even Ottawa looks like its hard to get into these days. York wants a B+ and UBC wants a 74 which is a 3.0 here at UofT.. I really would like to go to Notre Dame tho

Re: Re: 3 year BA
 

U oFT just recently released a website on the bouble cohort and i beleive I posted it here but it doesnt seem to be showing up.

Maybe I'm dense, but I'm still not understanding what this Double Cohort system is/does. Can someone explain in layman terms?

ok
 

ok

Loads of more kids are graduating next year due to the end of OAC so we've got this massive influx of kids in to the college/university system in Ontario and to an extent UBC and McGill.

Even this upcoming year there are a lot more kids due to fast trackers graduating early to avoid the double cohort.

I had a friend from Toronto, so I understand about the extra grade, but can someone explain to me what the difference is between college and university? Here in the US it's really a technical thing based on whether or not the school offers degrees beyond the bachelors, but to the student the difference really is null. But it sounds like it means more to ya'll.

ECC and Ntrip are colleges. So are seneca, george brown, humber, centennial, sheridan........

Colleges are like CC's/JC's here. There for people whow ant something either very specialized or who are not good nough to make it into university. College is 3 years. university 4. Thast;s another big difference. plus colleges are small. i belong to a college because u ofT has a college system. There are a few thousand registered kids in my college. There are almost 60k in the university!

OK, thanks, Eta bro!

:)
 

no problem eta sis.... how do i get that gamma chi thing into my sig?

......Another difference is that universities have Royal Charters.... and chscrew144 comment about the college system at UofT might need some explaining.... so here goes..... UofT uses the British college system, so while a student at UofT he belongs to a college, which handles all the administrative, intramural, and student life aspects. Some colleges were originally founded for religious reasons... ie an Anglican college, and a Catholic college.

Now abot student numbers... currently UofT's three campus make up about 70,000 undergrads and grads; my college has about 5500 students.... which is larger than a lot of the schools down south. With all these numbers we have about 300-350 greeks.... and it is constantly an uphill battle to recruit.

SMC or Vic?
 

Where you at man? I'm at SMC.. live in the queen's park buildings.. Are you in rez? In a house? etc

Thought I would jump in here ....
 

Hey all - nice discussion going here ....

This was a particular topic of discussion at the recent Canadian Interfraternal Conference held in Nov here in Winnipeg (next one is in Montreal Nov 1-3). Quite a few of the Western Canadian universities have already fielded requests on availability as a result of the cohort. At the U of Manitoba, they are expecting about a 10% increase in freshmen just from Ontario (especially those students from Northern Ontario), so this will have effects beyond Ontario for sure.

Recently, the U of T SAC recognized the Panhellenic Council ("Sororities at U of T") (first time sicne the 60's), and they are interested in developing a stronger relationship. ( I helped with that application - 2 years to get that thing approved!!). As for being recognized and having the right to exist, visit the Wilfird Laurier University Greek Life webiste - they have the section of the Ontario Rights and Freedoms that guareentees the rights of fraternal organizations.

One thing for sure - the Ontario GLO's are going to have to look at the type of social events they hold as most freshmen will be 1 to 2 years UNDER the drinking age of 19 as of next fall. Just another thing to consider ...

Look forward to reading more - if you would like more information on Greek Life in Canada, please visit http://www.canadiangreeks.com . We will have information posted shortly about CIFC 2002 in Montreal - hope you can all come!!

Interfraternally,
Shala

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Shala Berry, AOII
President, Canadian Interfraternal Assc.
shala@canadiangreeks.com
http://www.canadiangreeks.com

Re: SMC or Vic?
 

I'm over at Woodsworth... I commute to school, but I'm a member of Lambda Chi Alpha (the ones across from Woodsworth that had a rink out front the last 2 of 3 years). I plan on moving into the house come Sept. if I make enough $$$ this summer :)

Yo Coop, How goes it Bro! You never did answer my Q about Brother Ryan Haney one of our ELCs!

You all do some weird stuff up in the Hinter Land! :)

Well I guess some of the things you hear about the Southern Hinter Land make you shake your heads!

Our New H Pi initiated a week ago has a Sone who is a Brother!
I told Brother Chuck, of which I am older, Well Chuck I guess You a can call your son a Brother!

He said wait till I cantact him and call him my Brother! Wish I could listen to that Call!:cool:

What kind of rink? Are you guys playing smash mout Hockey!? That is mouth with no teeth!:)

Get on the LXA thred and let US know what is up!

Hell th4e TEKES are kicking our Butts on their thread!

Give some juice Bro!:cool:

Carletons Situation
 

AHHH DOUBLE COHORT! I swear I heard that word EVERY DAY!
At Carleton the double Cohort as already had an impact. Which I had to deal with all year being on the Rideau River Residence Assoication.

1. Building new Rez's and academic buildings as squeezed everyone into smaller spaces and crowded classrooms

2. OnCampus bars are worried about their liqour licences and so many more concerns.

BUT I hope that the double cohort will increase my local (Xi delta theta) sorority membership as well as the Greek Communities strength in the school so FINALLY maybe one day we will be recongnized as a offical legitimate organization.

OH-How would I get information on the intrafraternal conference? I am social and pledge Ed next year and I think my sorority wants to send myself and another member.

Re: Carletons Situation
 

Where did Carleton build the new Rez... and how is Oliver's, still packed in for the meat market?

Ollies
 

Ollies is still packed Wednesday nite..You have to line up all the way past the Chaplin and travel cuts and sometimes into the tunnels. Its still a meat market and Greek filled. As so is Karoke Nights at Roosters.

The new building they are reconstructing is the old Arts/Science office next to Dunton TOwers...yeah its taken ALL freakin' year and cut down on bus routes STILL not done.

THe need REz is Leeds, built by the parking lots. Its apartment style and for upper to Grad students. I lived in Renfrew house. They are tearing down the Senior Rez apartment at Renfrew and building a new rez RIGHT in front of it so directly across the Engineering building.

GO Double Cohort.

Ollies still packed....hmmm... sounds like the Lambda Chi's from UofT might make a road trip for Winterlude (as long as it's cold enough this year)