Something that really bothers me
 

I know of a sorority that was just removed and it was based for the most part on the fact that they didn't have a big name on campus. They pulled their charter because they weren't the "Hottest" Girls on campus. They had good grades and no violations, they just weren't the hotties on campus. He said that the National Consultants that he knows said that's how all sororities are. The number one thing they want is for their chapters to be the hottest girls on campus. I know for a fact that Fraternities are not like that. Yea, Nationals wants you to be the dominate house on campus, but if you are a bunch of dorks you can still be a good house. I know the biggest thing our Nationals wants is good grades, good philanthropy, few risk management violations, etc. It just bothers me what some of these National Sororities value, it just seems shallow.

[This message has been edited by Wooglin4Ever (edited August 19, 2001).]

Wooglin,

I agree 110%. Email me if you want to discuss.

If you think these women got shafted, write their nationals and tell them so. Nothing will change until people speak up. For lack of a better way to say this, thank you for giving a rat's rump. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by 33girl (edited August 05, 2001).]

UGH that makes me mad! I would hate to think that our charter would get revoked because I know we're not considered to be the "hottest girls on campus". To me that shouldn't matter anyway! So yes, I think you should write to National and see if you/we can help.

You guys have it all wrong. Nationals doesn't care about a thing your chapter does as long as you send them a check each semester and don't cause any trouble.

Wooglin-
I hear you on this. But simply put- If a sorority doesn't have some type of base for girls, they are going to do poor in rush, and bring very few in. Poor rush, means small #'s, and when you have about 10 girls, its a small cycle to break. Girls rushing don't want to rush a house of 5 when there are houses of 60 on campus.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, but I like to think most IHQs are better than bill collectors.

I think what DeltaBetaBaby meant was that Nationals wouldn't take a chapter's charter away for the sole reason that the girls aren't the "hottest" on campus. IHQs do care about individual chapters, however they don't concern themselves with having the best-looking girls on every campus where they have a chapter. I hope that made sense!

I do agree...my old chapter was having problems with numbers, but our nationals never once has threatened to taqke away our charter. They have been more than helpful in answering questions and even sending someone to our campus when we had trouble with our Greek advisor. Nationals has been very supportive and I would hate to think that anyone else has a problem because the girls aren't considered "hot." That definitely would not speak well of that Greek system. Hopefully it is not true or has been exagerated!

If you believe this, I've got a frozen head of Walt Disney I'd like to sell you.

Not to be rude but ELC's wold not know why the International Executive Council of a fraternity voted to close a chapter. She might think she knows but chances are she doesn't.

As far as HQ's being bill collectors, nice to know you repsect and honor your group.

Nationals do care about each and every chapter, and each girl in the chapter. I had problems with my grades, and I almost got the boot, but I begged and pleaded like a child not to be kicked out. I even negotiated to every extent. Nationals finally decided to put me on a special status till I got my grades up. I'm glad they did that cuz I would've had NO motivation for school if I got kicked out (I HATE school). So yeah, Nationals does care!!!

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I duno what I been told, Phi Mu girls are made of gold!
Phildo
PM W'00

Okay, I am out of line, I will attempt to step back in. We have had a lot of really great consultants and National officers who have visited and really cared a lot.

Aphigirl - MAN, if that's true in your org, that's really sad in my opinion. All of our SEC's decisions regarding charter revocations are discussed in public meetings, and you can bet the staff is in on them and know exactly what happened. If your national off's are operating behind closed doors, demand a change.

Brad

I'm also an Alpha Phi and I'm a little thrown by this whole thread. It was always my understanding that when a charter is pulled, lots of hearts are broken. If a chapter is strong in philanthropy and scholastics, maintains an economically viable size and doesn't have serious risk management (hazing) issues going on then people would still have good things to say about them. Therefore, they would still be an asset to the national organization as a whole. Charters are pulled when one or more of those things has fallen below standards for a long period of time and is judged to be past the point of recovery. I don't believe for a second that nationals pulled a charter because the girls weren't "hot."

I find it very very hard to beleive this scenario! I Know for a fact that our Elcs know what is going on at each chapter as it is their job to look at, work with, evaluate, and make recommendations to International! I know as i drove for 2 hours to meet with one of our ELCs who agreed to wait for me! Week talked four 2 hrs and I drove back for 2 hours!
There was more to it than one thing! Greek Organizations DO NOT like to lose Chapters! It looks bad and on the Normal it takes 3-4 years for them to come back on that campus!
We as Greeks know We have to grow and spread or die in todays Campus Oficials beleifs because of some of the morons that put a bad light on all of us!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

I can't agree with you more Tom. HQs DO NOT LIKE TO LOSE CHAPTERS.

Something has to be wrong with this HQ and something needs to be done about it. True, this charter might've been pulled already, but I really hope that this HQ doesn't do the same thing to another chapter.

However...

HQs don't pull chapters unless they are in serious trouble, and this doesn't happen until after careful research and deliberation. Some of the key factors may be low numbers, poor scholarship performance, or other disciplinary reasons. But like you said, these girls were apparently doing well in academics and in other areas.

Even if this chapter has done poorly in one category and losing the charter was necessary, I think it's pretty lame and irresponsible for a NATIONAL CONSULTANT OF ALL PEOPLE to give that kind of reason for losing the chapter. You just don't go around and tell people that kind of stuff.

Wooglin, that bothers me too.

You have to wonder sometimes.

I have heard of one of my GLO's chapters closing recently for similar reasons. a chapter must remain "competitive", so, as mentioned earlier, if there is a chapter with only 10 women while all other houses have 60, then HQ may close the chapter. It is not always based solely on numbers. (for instance, my chapter is the smallest(i think) in our org) but because the other GLO's are similar in size we're ok.

I have heard of one of my GLO's chapters closing recently for similar reasons. a chapter must remain "competitive", so, as mentioned earlier, if there is a chapter with only 10 women while all other houses have 60, then HQ may close the chapter. It is not always based solely on numbers. (for instance, my chapter is the smallest(i think) in our org) but because the other GLO's are similar in size we're ok.

I have heard of one of my GLO's chapters closing recently for similar reasons. a chapter must remain "competitive", so, as mentioned earlier, if there is a chapter with only 10 women while all other houses have 60, then HQ may close the chapter. It is not always based solely on numbers. (for instance, my chapter is the smallest(i think) in our org) but because the other GLO's are similar in size we're ok.

Just to set a couple of things straight-


I am a member of the chapter( Wooglin - thanks for the support )you are referring to. I have been interning with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, so have been removed from some of the events this last semester.

Our chapter did have a base on campus. We were the chapter of the nice girls; the chapter people wish they would have given more of a chance during rush months later after dropping from other sorority chapters. We had beautiful girls in our house both inside and out as well as diversity in our house.

The events last semester were based on a variety of things; some in our control and some things that were not. Our university alone has lost other strong ifc nationals - delta chi, sig ep, phi sigma kappa and lambda chi alpha. Other sororities and fraternities on our campus have struggled with large membership losses, substance abuse issues.

Our university and panhellenic will not be the same without us. I love my sisters and have never regretted a day as an Alpha Chi Omega at SIUC.

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Too many times we stand aside and let the waters slip away. 'Til what we put off 'til tomorrow has now become today. So don't you sit upon the shoreline and say you're satisfied. Choose to chance the rapids and dare to dance the tide. ~ "The River" Garth Brooks

I appreciate all the support that has come from the first response on this topic. It was a complete shock when we girls found out about it, and yes it was heartbreaking. We however, did make the best of the rest of the year. We made a goal to go out with a bang and I think that we reached that goal. I thought that we were already a close group of sisters, but in those last few weeks of school we became closer then I ever thought was possible. I love all my sisters and we will always be connected by our bond.

It's wonderful to see that people care enough to talk about something like this, give their opinions, and support.
It's sad to say that our chapter did get its charter pulled, but unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done about it other than to go on. It's done and over with, and the only things that we really have left are eachother, through the bond, and memories that will last a lifetime. We thought we were making it through and growing stronger, although times were tough, but HQ didn't see it the way we did. As unfair as it may seem, it's just the way things ended up.
To clear a couple things up:
1) We had more than 20 girls...not 10
2) We may not have been the "cookie-cut-outs" of sorority girls, but I honestly don't think anyone can say that was a reason the charter was pulled
3) I also think that most of our girls would say that if we ever came back, we'd want to earn our way back....not by people sending angry letters to HQ until they caved in (if they ever did)

"What's meant to be will always find a way"

Da##it, you said I could have it!! I'm reporting you to Ebay for a violation of terms!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

To my sisters, I feel the deep sense of loss that comes with a closed chapter. As with all cases, there is much more to it than just a simple statement of what is assumed to be factual. No matter how high up someone is, unless it is a female employed by HQ, with direct bearing on this case, then no one will know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. We all know the telephone game of passing info down through the ranks - it gets very distorted, and the original point is always lost entirely. I am just a firm believer that dirty laundry belongs in the laundry room, and not strung out on the floor for everyone to step over. Nationals has made its decision, and as hard as that is to take, you must remember the very core of being an Alpha Chi Omega. If its only about the charter on the wall, then you've missed out on so much more.

I speak from the heart - not with a cold tongue, as it may appear, but with love and tenderness, and the comfort of knowing for a fact that what AXO is to us is much more than a piece of paper.

I am not saying "get over it" - quite the contrary -- I am saying "get THROUGH it" and we all know that "together" is the only way to do that. Please email me for any support and I would be more than happy to reply with ideas for alumnae coordination and meetings -you are alumnae now, and you must act responsibly in that role (ie, they can't take away your charter for alumnae chapter! So get yourselves organized and send in the form - what a great way to show the world that AXO is truly for a lifetime!!)

In closing, here's my little version of a good 'ol country song that I wrote for my pledge class:

Alpha Chi Omega - your name on my lips is sweet; And the colors of your glorious crest run so very deep; But if those colors should fade away, and Alpha Chi is no more; Sisters, there is something that I must say, and you can rest assured...that - sisters, sisters forever, and ever we will be -- through thick and thin, we're tried and true, from here to eternity -- and no matter where your heart may lead, I can guarantee --that sisters forever, and ever we will be!

(First time ever in print for me - sorry I can't "sing" it for you, but you can put it to your own tune http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif)

Much love to all my sisters and thanks to everyone for the support you've shown!

Wow - I stand corrected. Sorry I just commented off the cuff instead of really understanding what was happening to you guys. That's horrible that all of this took place and you guys had to loose your charter. It's obvious from these posts here that you guys have a strong sense of sisterhood and probably deserved more of a fighting chance than you got. Hope everything works out okay and that at least you can all remain as close as you are now and support each other through this.

Are you kidding me?!? Maybe that's the way your group works, but we have quite a bit more contact with our chapters than checks rolling in the door. As for Wooglin, I think that's the most ridiculous thing!!! We would never pull a charter for something so petty. I wish I knew what group that was...

I think that Wooglin4Ever is being taken wrong for what he said about our chapter being pulled because we weren't the hottest on campus. I think he was more or less just addressing the fact that our charter was pulled and that was just the reason he thought, but there's nothing to really back that up. I think the important thing that he was looking at was that there was yet again another house of Greeks getting taken off of our campus and the ones before you could tell why. They were ones with risk management problems. We however, weren't. I think that's what he was trying to focus on.

I think what a lot of what I said was taken the wrong way. I would like to start off by saying that my view is not necessarly the same as that of those who were members of this chapter. This is just how I feel about the situation. I have no proof whatsoever on the "Exact" reason why this charter was pulled. I know that there is still confusion going around. I sit on the Inter-Greek council and there is not too much that goes on in our greek system that I don't know about. I do know there are still some questions left unanswered. The thing that bothers me is that this was a very young chapter on campus, they chartered in the late 90's. All of the other sorotities on campus have been here well over 40 years and being young it's hard starting out and I saw little help from the national organization. I am not a member of this chapter so I really have no concrete evidence of that, I'm just speaking on what I saw. My chapter is one of the strongest in the country and they help us out soooooo much. That's one thing that bothers me is that a lot of organizations just focus on the better chapters, when these chapters that are struggling don't get as much attention. They are like republicans. Help the rich, screw the poor. I am convinced that many organizations just kind of ignore their weakeer chapters so they can remove them. I know that there was no fore warning with this chapter closing. It was something that looked like a possibility if things didn't improve, but at least a few years away at the soonest. I am not a member of this chapter (obviously) and am not really close with too many people in this house so it's not like I'm just trying to say "My friends got screwed". I am just saying that I watched this whole situation unfold and it somewhat bothered me. I think the whole situation was handled poorly.

If you guys reading this take anything away from this thread - please keep supporting all greek organizations on your campus, especially newer or weaker chapters.

The Greek System nationally is in a decline and I have seen too much of what has happened to us happen elsewhere, both to my sisters at other schools and too other chapters on my campus.

Just be supportive of your other IFC, Panhell and PanDash chapters within your greek system. There is a fine line between competition (which is good) and badmouthing other chapters. If you know of a chapter of guys or girls on your campus who are not as strong - get to know those people for who they are not what they look like or how many brothers they have. Invite them to do things, whether it just be a simple social or philanthropy. If you don't see a chapter getting support from nationals or the schools greek councils then see if you can do something to help.

No matter the letter, were all greek together, as cliche as it sounds its soo true.

If you guys reading this take anything away from this thread - please keep supporting all greek organizations on your campus, especially newer or weaker chapters.

The Greek System nationally is in a decline and I have seen too much of what has happened to us happen elsewhere, both to my sisters at other schools and too other chapters on my campus.

Just be supportive of your other IFC, Panhell and PanDash chapters within your greek system. There is a fine line between competition (which is good) and badmouthing other chapters. If you know of a chapter of guys or girls on your campus who are not as strong - get to know those people for who they are not what they look like or how many brothers they have. Invite them to do things, whether it just be a simple social or philanthropy. If you don't see a chapter getting support from nationals or the schools greek councils then see if you can do something to help.

No matter the letter, were all greek together, as cliche as it sounds its soo true.

I'm so sorry to hear this news. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif I'm saddened to hear about any chapter of any sorority losing its charter - particularly since I was a founding sister of my chapter, and I know what it would feel like if their charter (which I signed) were pulled... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

To the ladies whose charter was pulled - would you consider re-establishing yourselves as a local sorority? It's obvious you all have a special bond, and that's worth keeping around. Spend some time as a local, see what happens, and then consider rejoining a national (whether AXO or another group) - or remaining a local.

I am also sad to hear about the lost of this chapter.I know how these things come about, considering some guys at my school told me and some of my sisters that an alum of our house told him that we were recolonized b/c our nationals didnt like the "make-up" of our house. Totally untrue, but i can see the view when you factor in competiton. I believe that Wooglin was taken out of context and possibly was talking about the whole competitive issue which certain Greek Systems have. For example the 4 yrs I was on campus 3 sororites left. One came back. These werent your popular house that had all the "rich, beautiful, party girls". They were nice girls but they just couldnt compete with the houses that had the popular label. For some reason girls hear about 5 certain houses on campus and thats all they go for. These house dont necessarily make it easy for other house either but thats an issue Panhel is dealing with currently.
My thing is as one person said, the system is on the decline, so why is it that there's this competition when we should be helping each other out? No house is better then that other cuz they all offer something different. Just my babble.