RFM-pref day
 

Ladies who are RFM experts: let's say that a PNM has 3 parties on pref day. She likes 2 (A and B), hates the other one (C). A and B have always made quota. C never makes quota--right off, anyway.

She lists A and B only on her MRABA but doesn't get a bid. Most of us have seen this scenario. How often have you seen this happen? If the third sorority doesn't usually make quota, does it seem to you that that's the bid that girls get in such a scenario?

I realize that it's different for every girl and that it depends where they're placed on the sorority's list. It's just that so often, it seems to me like the PNM gets C.

If she doesn't list C, then she can't get a C bid. If she does list C, then she should get a C bid. That's the way it is supposed to work. If you list C, you are saying you will accept a bid from C. If A and B are full before they get to your name on the A list or the B list, and C hasn't made quota yet, you will be placed in C.

If there is a weak recruiting chapter that historically doesn't make quota, I don't think it's in a PNM's interest to list them on her bid card if she really, REALLY doesn't intend to accept a bid from them. The chances of you being placed in C are a lot higher than you being placed as a quota addition.


However, if C has a good recruitment and makes quota, you are giving up your shot at being a quota addition.

You take your chances, either way.

Not an expert, but do have some experience.

I think the PNM will not get a bid. A & B hit quota and didn't go far enough down their lists to get to her and she didn't list C.

She will be on the list of available PNMs provided by FSL to the organizations needing to fill spots.

In other words she will still be a "C" instead of A or B if she wants a bid this year. And the next year depends on the type of campus. Campus where Sophomores are not desirable: she would be lucky if C would even look at her.

So RFM is a much more complex process with the overall intent to help all or almost all groups make quota by setting releases all chapters must make on a realistic timeline. Remember when the weaker chapter missed quota by a lot? that's because the stronger rushing chapters where not ask to release enough pnm's "down" into the system. Another example is top chapters don't need to carry 2x or 3x quota into pref to make quota.

On the pnm side of the house these releases help set their expectations correctly...they are being released sooner to chapters that they will be released from at some point and are destined not to pledge. This helps keep pnm's in the system rather than carrying "top" houses all week only to have zero invites to pref, or 1 "top" and 2 "I don't want this house" to pref which causes them to drop out of recruitment because their expectations about where in the system they may end up hasn't been handled correctly.

About your question....I don't think that pnm's end up in "C" more often....This is an outcome of the pnm not making it high enough on the bid list of A & B - that isn't a result of RFM that's a result of pnm performance so to speak. When it comes to house C they probably have more women able to be invited to their house to pref (if they traditionally miss quota) and maybe? are placing pnm higher on their list knowing she's going to two other preferences at houses that rush stronger than they do??

while I do understand the conversation here, could you refresh my knowledge as to what "RFM" and "MRABA" stand for?

Except by looking at the recruitment results, it still seems like at a lot of campuses, there's still that one house that's missing quota by a lot. I wonder what alterations could be made to help fix that?

Release-Figure Management & Membership Recruitment Acceptance Binding Agreement (pref card)

If it's happening A LOT that PNMs are getting the top 2 and then bottom sorority for pref, that means that either there are a lot of in house triple legacies or else a lot of PNMs saying outright what group they want. Who wouldn't cut these girls if you didn't have to keep them? And if the PNMs are that set on groups, they probably wouldn't even be happy with #3.

If those PNMs have a shred of decency, they'll leave the bottom group off their card. You aren't going to be that magical unicorn QA, so quit thinking you are. QA isn't supposed to be about gaming the system and I think that's what some people are trying to turn it into.

I feel like the "ineligible for QAs if you don't maximize your options" thing is a bit of a catch-22. If a PNM honestly feels that a chapter isn't for her, and isn't just being a snob, it's kinda crappy to punish her for leaving a chapter off her pref card, if that spot could go to someone else who really wants to be there.

IMO if a chapter is that far off, you can't fix it in formal rush. They need to take a pledge class in the off semester, hopefully mainly comprised of women who don't just want A sorority, they want THAT sorority. RFM isn't supposed to be about charity and I don't think any chapter wants that. It's about being kind to PNMs and cutting them loose if you're not interested so they can see the good things in other chapters.

I've seen a couple different names for RFM on here, so before anyone gets confused - Release Figure Methodology.


NPC has a 2015 handout with more details for anyone who's curious:
https://www.npcwomen.org/resources/pdf/RFM%20Update.pdf


And carnation, I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at. Are you asking if a PNM who has two stronger recruiting chapters (A & B) and one weaker recruiting chapter (C) at Pref is less likely to wind up in A or B than a PNM who has all strong recruiting chapters (A, B, & D) at Pref?


While I'm not an RFM specialist, based on what I've seen since RFM was started that isn't the case. It just all depends on where each girl is on each chapter's bid list.

I'm not even sure how to put this into words. It just seems like maybe 3/4 of the PNMs we know who have been in this situation (so this would be dozens of women) end up with C.

AlphaXi_Husky, I guess that's what I'm saying. And a lot of times, C still doesn't make quota after various additions, etc.

Perhaps the only cure then is for even leaner pre-Pref invites for the strong recruiting chapters (SRWs). I say this because the snap bid lists are now put together at the same time as the bid list. If an SRW chapter misses quota, it's handled before invitations go out and no one is the wiser except the RFM specialist and maybe two chapter officers.

Honestly, I think this is one of those times when you have to look past bid day and at retention. Are those girls who get placed in C finishing pledgeship, initiating and staying members throughout college, or are they overwhelmingly not showing up for bid day or depledging? If it's the latter, then maybe it's time to relax RFM as far as letting C cut girls that show zero interest. RFM was intended to place more women, not to put chapters that are already nervous in rush further through the emotional wringer.

For the first part, do you mean we as in your family, or we on Greek Chat? We've discussed before that Greek Chat seems to see more PNMs who didn't get their first (or second) choice, or who were dropped completely (or so they say), moreso than a PNM who was happily placed. So I think that's just more of a sample size issue, so to speak.


As for your second point, I agree with 33girl that it's not something that can be fixed during Recruitment. It's more of a Recruitment 365 sort of thing where the chapter needs to make itself stronger outside of the formal recruitment period in order to start better competing with stronger recruiting chapter once the next Recruitment rolls around.


I do think overall RFM has been very beneficial across the board. I don't think RFM has led to more people being placed in a C chapter when also preffing A & B chapters.

Or maybe leaner Pref invites?


That makes me so nervous though!

This x zillion.

Part of the problem is that if C is truly such a weak-recruiting chapter, RFM can't force girls to accept bids there or list them after preference. Girls can say they'd rather not be Greek than be in C, and sending every quota addition their way won't change that. RFM helps weaker-recruiting chapters by forcing more girls to return to their parties which can hopefully give those weaker-recruiting a second chance to shine, but ultimately it can't solve problems that chapters have with recruiting itself.

I'm talking about everywhere. Yes, on GC, but mostly women whom I know through various groups,from being in school with my daughters (I have 9), students of 2 of my kids who are teachers, just from various places. I would say I personally know at least 40 PNMs every year and maybe 5-10 end up in the A, B, or C scenario. And at schools where C is an extremely WRC, if the girl gets C, she walks away from her bid.

Even better!

But when should the RFM specialist permit the release of the PNMs that keep putting a WRC last? Part of RFM practice is to reduce the number of rounds meaning less time for Chapters and PNMs to gain an accurate read or correct misconceptions about one another. Seems like the reduction of the SRC chapter invites needs to come earlier for best results overall.

I think it's just a numbers game at that point though. If you've known 40 PNMs and 1/8 to 1/4 of them get a bid to a WRC, or even the weakest RC, then honestly that sounds about right to me. Even if the other Pref parties they went to weren't other WRCs. Just like I would expect 1/8 to 1/4 of them to get SRCs or even the strongest RC, even if they had only the SRC and two WRC for Pref.


Do PNMs preffing SRCs tend to pref other SRCs? Sure. However I've noticed now that RFM has been going on a while, there is a lot more cross-preffing between SRCs and just-okay RCs, and even WRCs.


As for your last sentence, I'm sure you would agree that's more of a campus environment thing than anything else. RFM isn't going to help that much in that situation.

Honestly, I think that's up to the WRC. Unless you've spent your life in a cave, you can usually tell the difference between a girl who is genuinely amazed that she is liking your chapter more than she thought she would and is just listing you last because someone has to be last, and the girl who is just never going to budge or give you a chance. I know that's very hard to quantify or communicate to an RFM specialist though.

I've already talked with several PNMs this year who've been in or are in this situation. "How should I gamble? That I list all 3 and hope for A or B? Or should I only list A and B and hope I don't get the call?"

Had we had this situation when I was rushing, I would've been a basket case!

I think it really depends on if they can see themselves in Chapter C. If they can't, or they're going to ruin bid day by crying all over Chapter C's decorations and spirits, then don't list Chapter C.


If it's the type of campus where it's "pledge as a freshman or don't even try going Greek", then it depends on how badly the PNM wants to be Greek, ANY Greek.


It's a tough call in any case!

I think in this scenario, it is slightly more likely for the PNM to get a bid to C chapter than in a scenario where she is preffing three relatively equal chapters and/or where the C chapter typically makes quota just fine.

Reason 1:
This is going to assume that there is a relative gradation of PNM "desirability" that is somewhat even across chapters. Yes, I know that chapter personality and fit are all major factors, but you still tend to see similar strength chapters compete more frequently with each other for PNMs.

If A and B are significantly stronger chapters, then it may be the case that PNM is already near the middle or lower end of those chapter's pref lists. A and B will likely have many women they like just as much as PNM from which to choose. Thus, RFM isn't doing anything to push these PNMs into C, it's more that the scenario is kind of pre-indicating that PNM is more likely to match with C.

Reason 2:
The Quota Addition rules are helpful for PNMs in making the decision to maximize options really only if all the chapters she has tend to make quota. The only benefit to including a chapter that she ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT WANT A BID FROM on her MRABA is in the event that she is not matched with A and B - then she hopes that she is not matched with C so that she can be hand-placed into one of the other chapters as a QA. If C rarely/never makes quota, then PNM receives no benefit to maximizing her options, in the event she truly would turn down the C bid anyway.

Edit: Or at least, this is how I understand RFM to work on most campuses!

This!

My advice is to NOT list C unless you are willing to accept a bid from them and make it work. If you HATE C, then don't list them. The most likely outcome is that you are going to be placed at C, rather than be a quota addition. You are better off not being bound to a C bid and hoping for COB opportunities.

I agree. In reality, what percentage of PNMs get placed as QA's? I am seeing some campuses where there are huge quota additions, but these groups are making quota (and everyone else is also). SO this is probably a newer GLO on campus vs a WRC that has been improving their numbers over the past few years but their RRS is not high enough for them to release lots of PNMS...thus they have more PNMS in their parties. But they are matching more of them and more are showing up on Bid Day..some of these groups are the largest in number on their campuses after recruitment. Overall, retention over the years is the largest factor....and that is up to each chapter to remedy over time. It is one thing to only get 30 on bid day when quota is 60...totally another to get 75 on bid day when quota is 60 and you only initiate 40 of them.

Thank you for the link. There are so many things in it that make me happy and make me want to scream.

This one is a screamer: "Also, when determining chapter total on a campus with one chapter that is significantly below total, a Panhellenic may want to choose MCS, or use ACS but remove that chapter’s number from its calculation."

Am I wrong in thinking that removing the weaker chapter from the equation makes total higher, putting them even more behind?

Also, I know that it says that RFM started as a pilot in 2003 but I know that retention figures were used going into Pref to determine number of invites when I was in school. It stands out in my mind because we had an advisor who got the call with our number excitedly tell us that we needed to cut more girls. We freaked because we were not as strong of a recruiting chapter as we had once been. She tried to reassure us but our bid numbers were low that year.

Finally, does RFM have any mechanism in place to override or adjust figures? I'm thinking of the situation where a historically SRC has some drama go down that "poisons the well". They would normally have to cut more women but suddenly they're the WRC and need a bigger pool to try to hit quota.

That's what the flex lists, plus and minus, are for. If a chapter has unexpectedly strong returns then the minus list is used to cut more PNMs. If a chapter has a weaker than expected return number then the plus list is used to add invitations.

But really, I would say that listing C means you don't have to make a decision immediately. If you get C, you can see how you feel once you've gotten some sleep, met your pledge sisters, gotten started with classes, etc. Whereas not listing C, and ending up bidless, can mean never getting to go Greek on a lot of campuses.

Often when I am super-stressed about a decision, the most comforting thing is knowing I can delay the decision. Listing all three on your bid card does that, in a way.

I would never have guessed that.
I wonder when they will come up with a new word for "bid"? ;)

Listing C and pledging to see how you feel about them later also makes her ineligible for any COB possibilities for a year.

Yes, so it's obviously campus dependent, but a lot of us know that formal recruitment in your freshman year is how 99% of women join chapters in the SEC.

It's been called the MRABA forever. That's the technical name for the contract the girls are signing. Most of the girls just don't ever realize what they're signing or why. But I know it was called the MRABA in 1984, so unless you're way older than that, you just didn't know that was what it was called.

If this chapter is that far in the hole, they're going to have bids to give out a while after FR is over.

Like ladybug12 said, better to get 30 with a 60 quota who truly like the sorority, rather than getting 75, half of which you're doing the equivalent of begging a toddler to eat their vegetables everyday. It's really upsetting and debilitating for a chapter to have women drop like flies during pledgeship. It's also not fair to the girls who really do want to be there. They get overlooked when you're trying to talk the on-the-fencers into staying.

Starting with this fall's 2015 formal recruitment, PNMs at Kentucky may attend up to two chapters for preference. This is down from previous years when a PNM could attend up to three preference parties.

What would be the reasoning behind this? I believe that historically, most PNMs get placed in their first choice. A much smaller number are placed with their second choice. And an even smaller number with their third choice. Does moving to two preferences “help” the PNMs and/or the chapters?

FYI: The rounds go from 13 (open house) to 10 to 6 to 2 (preference). Also, there will be a recolonization after formal recruitment.

We only preffed 2 chapters max when I went through recruitment, and there were 17 groups.

There's something about getting a 3rd choice out of 3 that seems much more deflating than getting your 2nd choice out of 2. I think this is a good move for the chapters and the PNMs, especially with a colonization following recruitment.