"i was drinking at XYZ tonight..."
 

Has this ever happened to you? You have a random people who use your house as an excuse? I am seeing it more often. People get drunk, cause a little trouble, and when they get caught they say they were drinking at your Fraternity house. This happenes to one house on my campus all the time, they are not recognized by the school so it does not matter. This did happen to a house reciently and now they are in a lot of trouble. What are your feelings? do you think Fraternities should get in trouble because people use their name as an excuse?

this is such bullshit.

People know fraternities are under fire for anything they do so rather than own up to the fact that they got busted they blame it on a fraternity. All of a sudden the kid goes from being "underage drinker" to "innocent kid led astray by evil fraternity man."

It's the same mindset where if 2 people, one wearing a fraternity jacket and one not, are weaving their way back from a party, the one with the letters on will most likely get breathalized and written up and the other one will get sent home. This was happening a lot on my campus for a while. By the way, this is the reason for all the no drinking in letters rules nowadays, not "it's disrespectful to drink in letters." That's just what you are told.

If I heard of someone doing that, I'd say not only ban him from your fraternity house, but from all of them. I've never seen anyone go to a fraternity house and be forced to drink. It's time people start taking responsibility for what they do.

If the person was, in fact, drinking at the fraternity house, the chapter and probably the house corporation have liability for whatever happens to that person. It's another unfortunate reason for dry housing.

That's why most companies don't serve alcohol at their holiday parties if they're held in the company facility. Most have chosen to go outside to a third party. The last big company I worked for had an absolute alcohol ban in its' property nationwide.

Does this sound familiar?

Take a look at Fraternal News. Whenever there is an alcohol related incident, the lawsuits against everyone even marginally involved always follow.

If the person wasn't drinking at the house, and he/she is not telling the truth just to get the fraternity in trouble, that's a different story.

I've heard lots of stories where John or Joan Freshman goes to a fraternity party, has one beer, and then goes drinking the rest of the evening away in some friend's dorm room. Unfortunately, the kid dies, and who do the parents go after? The fraternity. Now, sure, the fraternity served an underage kid, but one beer was not what killed him ... But the fraternity is the best target for the lawsuit.

FuzzieAlum,

That happened two or three years ago at my Alma Mater.

Freshman allegedly goes to a Fraternity party -- then goes to several other non-Greek parties and gets wasted.

On the way home, falls in the river and drowns.

Well, the "no drinking in letters" thing about getting unfairly busted by cops makes sense, but I think it does have to do with respecting your letters, too. We do such stupid things when we're drinking, we don't need people talking about "Oh, I see that dumbass over there is in XYZ." Over Spring Break, the biggest scandal occurred with two girls in a wet t-shirt contest (where you just get completely naked anyway) who had their letters and symbols written all over them and their lavaliers around their necks. I make sure to leave my letters at home when I go out (not that I'll be in a wet t-shirt contest anytime soon.)

Just out of curiousity...girls aren't supposed to drink in letters as a respect to our letters, so why do guys drink in theirs?

In my chapter we don't drink in our letters, period. If a member forgets, he is reminded and has to turn his shirt inside-out.

It's a pride issue as well as a perception issue.

Our campus is dry and unfortunately there are members of a recently booted national fraternity that are hell-bent on getting other chapters banned.

We've been informed that they check party pic sites, etc to collect evidence against other fraternities. 2 Other houses just got suspended for certain allegations so our safety is very important to us at this point.

So it's also a self-preservation issue:D

Why is it desresepctful to drink in letters?

If you are in AGD and you go to a bar in street clothes and everyone in the bar knows you are AGD what makes you any different than the person wearing letters?

I think not drinking in letters is just another rule, that has been made up by some nationals to try and lower liability.


The reason my fraternity drinks in letters is because we don't see anything wrong with it, and we don't look at it as being disrespectful. Its not like we are doing anything wrong. Its not like we are going out and robbing a bank.

I guess sit just sends the wrong message about the organization.

You never see cops drinking in a bar in uniform.

I used to go to this one bar where a lot of TV types, cops and paramedics hung out. The cops were always in street clothes, and the paramedics took medical tape and covered up their patches and took off their badges.

It's not like nobody knew they weren't cops and paramedics, they were just showing some respect for their organizations, I think.

I pretty much try not to do anything stupid in my letters. The only time I wear letters when I'm gonna be partying is when I'm gonna be sober. I figure there are enough preconceptions about "Frat" boys that I may as well try to show them what a Fraternity Man can be.

Usually the only people wearing letters at our parties are our sobers, but its not frowned upon here to drink in your letters. We had a DG mixer and it was kind of ridiculous to see the stitch outlines of 'seven triangle' and it was obvious to anyone who knew what a Greek letter was.

I have said this in other posts...

We can drink in letters, as it is not a violation of bylaws, but we cannot drink in letters at a bar (as defined by our risk mgmt rules - anyplace that makes more than 50% of its profits from booze) so yeah, TGI Fridays OK, Bennagins OK, Fox and Hound or Flying Saucer, not OK.

Most brothers wont drink in letters anyway. I dont. At spring break, I turned my letters inside out to drink. We have 1 or 2 brothers tho who will still drink in letters at a party. We all kinda frown on that, but oh well, not breaking any rules....

I dont so much think its disrespectful todrink in letters as it is trashy.

Seriously, who goes to a bar or party in letters? Dont ya'll at least dress up to go out? I throw on some khakis and a collared shirt. Peopel will see you out and especially if you are trying to hook up dont you wanna look your best and like you spent at least 5 minutes getting ready? I also shave, shower etc. Wont go out otherwise. 'Cause damn soon as I do, I'll bump into my ex-girlfriend or one of her minions.

I love my letters, but lets face it, its a damn t-shirt with fabric sewn on it! How classy is that?

Then why not say the same thing about your badge/pin?

Alpha Gamma Delta Fraternity, without or without wearing my Greek Letters, spelled out words, badge or other items, means too much to me to disrespect it by getting drunk, taking drugs or other illegal/stupid action and having someone think that AGD allows /condones it.

Because its a piece of jewlry. That to me is classier. I wont drink in that either. We dont allow our NM's do wear their pin when they drink either.

Now if I was in a golf shirt with the letters embrordierd on it over the left breast small like, I might have a drink in that (still not at a bar) WHY? because a collered golf shirt is a little classier than a t-shirt. I could go out in public wearign that. Definately.

My favorite story...
 

My favorite example of this happened this past spring semester. At the beginning of the semester, a student, already drinking, went to a fraternity house, got into a fight with some of the brothers (outside of the house) and pulled a gun and fired off a few rounds. Fun, right.

Well, over the next few days when the story was printed in the newspaper, the headline was "Shots fired at Fraternity House".

The fraternity was having a party, but it was a list party. The guy showed up and wanted to come in, but the brothers wouldn't let him, so he got mad.

The part that really ticked off a lot of greeks at my campus was that this kid was a FOOTBALL player (not that there is anything wrong with that) and there was NO mention of this fact in any of the reports!!!!!!! It said that he was a Clarion student, blah blah, but it didn't say that he was an athlete (do I smell a cover up?). Instead, it was all the fraternity's fault, when they never did anything wrong.

And another thing, it was in the parking lot of the fraternity, which is shared by 2 other fraternities but the one fraternity is in a lot of trouble because of it. Ugh!

First: Hi everybody, this is my first contact to fraternities/sororities in the USA, I want to get more information of you. I'm in a fraternity in Cologne/Germany. For my reply it's important to know that we wear - hm - in an online dictionary I found the word "sash" for the German word "Schaerpe", I don't know if this is correct. It's a small stripe with a combination of three different coulours for all the different fraternities in Germany that we wear round the right shoulder over chest and back to our hip. I hope you can imagine how that looks like, if not: have a look at www.cartellverband.de, by clicking on a picture there you'll see... I call this thing "sash" in my messages until someone tells me the correct vocabulary...

Now, here's my reply: We've just had the opposite case: some random guys with "sashes" on visited our house. They had really no idea about fraternities! We suppose they heard that - and this is traditional - whenever you visit another house they let you in and give you beer for free. They wanted to use us to get drunk in a very cheap way, we don't know where they got the sashes...

In our handbook, "Themes for Brotherhood", it says that we're allowed to have official fraternity events that serve alcohol as long as everyone drinking is of age. It is the individual chapter's responsibility to conduct an ID check. The handbook says that we are obligated to prevent drunk brothers from driving and must accomadate them overnight if necessary. It doesn't say anything in the handbook about not being allowed to drink in letters. In fact, at the last National Assembly in Dallas there were many brothers who did in fact drink with their letters. Individual chapters may oppose this but there is nothing against it nationally. In my chapter we do not drink with our pins but are allowed to drink in letters if you're of age. Other GLOs around campus can often be spotted wearing their letters at the bars near campus. It varies between schools and I think that it all depends on chapter case by case basis.

drinking in letters
 

SAI's are not allowed to drink in letters. Period. While at first I thought it was restrictive, I soon learned the purpose of this rule. Whenever I see a person out drinking (and three sheets to the wind) wearing their letters I honestly lose a little respect for their organization. Drinking in moderation at the legal age is ok, letters or not, but just to safeguard I never do. My letters are not just on my shirt, they're also in my heart.

I wouldnt drink in my letters either now! I cant really explain why, just that I love my fraternity too much to make it look bad. But I think the media has alot to do with the reason why. I wonder if the fraternities that did nothing wrong but are in trouble could sue for slander?

And to the German, yes sashes or a sash is the correct word . I do have to say that is different! I would like to learn more about the greek system in Germany!

I just wanted to say that the Phi Mu Alpha at my school is a GREAT group of guys, and in response to this I have never seen them let ANYONE (let alone a brother) drive drunk and they accomadate other persons intoxicated besides brothers (they know everyone who would come to the house anyhow, it's not like a 'party', more like a gathering). Obviously one would look out for their own brothers, but these guys look out for everyone.

Nah, we can get pissed off that's about it. Slander is a little more difficult to prove, especially when it's true.

I don't know about other chapters, but what we were told as AXDs was that active, undergrad members may not drink in their letters but alumnae can (presuming of course that they are of age to drink legally). I've seen alums in their Quills have a glass of wine, for example.

That leads me to believe the primary reason for us not drinking in our letters is to avoid looking bad - lots of people would see a legal undergrad drinking responsibly in letters and assume she was underage. And of course we don't all drink responsibly, so at least it isn't being associated with our chapter. (Although people will probably know what chapter you're in out of letters too.)

But a 50-year old having a glass of wine doesn't look bad. The assumption, which may not always be true, is that alums have the wisdom to decide whether or not having that drink would reflect poorly on Alpha Xi Delta.

I've heard from other sisters that at some schools wearing a lavalier to bars or parties is actually promoted. The girls use it as PR. I don't really agree with it, but it's just what I've been told.

Being that I rarely take my lavalier off, I do wear it to the bar and to parties. I don't really consider this "wearing letters" to go out.

In response to the Drinking in Letters question, I feel that when members choose to drink in letters then they are taking their sacred ritual and stompiung all over it. I know that most sororities do not allow this and I also know that Sigma Nu Fraternity doesnt. This is part of the reason I always liked the Sigma Nu's at my school. I thought that they were one of the only fraternities that takes their sacred vows to heart. I am sure that there ar eother fraternities that dont drink in letters, but I am not sure of them because from what I have observed Sigma Nu is the only one at my school. I could be wrong though. I guess I just wanted to pass that on to the Sigma Nu's that are on here because they will always hold a special place in my heart because most of my freshman year was spent hanging out with those guys.

In response to the drinking at XYZ's response, have you noticed that it is usually freshman that say these things? I am guilty I will admit of drikning at Fraternitys but that was before I was Greek and I thougght I was "cool" because I got plastered and had random hook-ups all the time. But now I do still go over to Fraternity houses and hang out with my guy friends and my sisters. But the difference is I am not one of the annoying girls that hangs out there anymore and wont go away I am usually invited over there or just looking to get out of the dorms for awhile. By the way I dont think I was an annoying presence at the Sigma Nu's because I did make them dinner and I was usually invited over there if there wasnt any other special reason.

Ok, I think there was a point in there somewhere, just not sure what it was...lol....

dumb freshmen
 

'In response to the drinking at XYZ's response, have you noticed that it is usually freshman that say these things?"

Leave it to most freshmen to do dumb stuff...trial by fire. I would know, I just finished my freshman year, and my sisters and I did stuff I can't really imagine us doing anymore when we're seniors. We are careful, though, to leave all letters at home when there's even a slight possibility we're going to be drinking (it's a huge possibility all the time). I know girls in other sororities have actually gotten in trouble for wearing lavaliers out (the only letters you'd be wearing out, b/c no one wears jerseys or anything at night), while other girls proudly strut around with their letters hanging around their necks. I know it's true that most people (esp. fellow Greeks) already know which house you're in, (esp, if you're like, "Oh, my sisters! Blah blah blah") but that's not the point. You're not leaving your letters in the safety of your home b/c you're playing some sort of identity game, but because you have more respect for your letters than to risk making your house look stupid if something happens. (And don't even mention the non-Greeks who look at you in letters...when you wear your letters you're just under more scrutiny b/c they're waiting for you to do something "Greek.")

Letters or not, we've gotten off the point. The only way to stop people from claiming that sort of thing is to stop letting random people into your parties. Can someone explain to me this urge some Greeks seem to have, to invite their 500 best friends over every weekend? We don't allow alcohol in our house's common areas for exactly that reason- no one can claim they stopped at OD for a drink before they wandered off and committed a felony. Our chapter of PKA was closed after a rape occured at the house. The rapist wasn't a brother, wasn't a friend or acquaintence of any of the brothers, and it was the brothers who kicked the sh*t out of him and turned him over to the police, but it was PKA who paid, with their house and charter. Every time you serve a stranger a drink in your house, you take a risk, and that risk is just becomming way too big to be worth it.

Agreed!

If you don't make a guest list BEFORE the event and have proper supervision of guests you have no control over the party. Yet you are responsible if anything bad happens. Fair? Nope. Sometimes the law is not fair though.

I'm pretty sure it's in your risk reduction policy.. follow it and things will be sooo much more secure.

It's easy to say these things coming from a member of a new chapter that has always followed the letter of the law when it came to risk reduction. I can hardly imagine what it would be like changing the status queue. For those of you that can do this though it's probably worth the effort.

LHT
Kevin