Would you pledge a sorority known for dirty rushing?
 

Hello ladies of GC!

I will be attending an SEC university in the fall, and while it does not have a crazy Alabama-like competitive rush, it's not a cake walk either. There is a certain sorority at my school which is known as a very solid chapter, with high GPA, good reputation, lots of on-campus participation and leadership, etc. It's popular with the studious and conservative girls in my neighborhood/High School, and I think I would be happy with a bid here if offered. The only "problem" is that this chapter also has a reputation for aggressive recruitment tactics/dirty rushing. They've actually been fined by the university and gotten in trouble by a local Panhellenic group before, but they've never been on probation. Some of my older friends from high school activities have confirmed some of the rumors, and even now that Summer is starting and silence is in effect, I've noticed a few questionable things. My question to you, ladies of GC, is would you let this questionable recruiting tactic prevent yourself from preffing this particular chapter if you happen to go that far? I'd really like some of your input and advice! It would definitely be a change from the gossip and hyperbole from some of my very bored and very 18 year old friends.

You need to quit listening to gossip! That's my only advice.

Silence has started already? Wow... that is REALLY strict. Yes, some chapters are far more "aggressive" in their rush tactics. It might not be strictly by the rules, but I guess I would consider how far over the line they go.

I agree. Sometimes a form of "Dirty Rush" is spreading the rumor around that another GLO dirty rushes!

I was wavering between two groups up to and including pref. Both very well respected groups. One of those groups gave me an oral bid at pref, which stunned me. I went with the other one, which played it straight. We had deferred rush until our Sophomore year, and both groups had rushed me hard for a semester before formal rush in the fall and throughout the summer. While I didn't doubt the sincerity of the oral bid, I did lose a bit of respect for that group and wondered if they all did that! I'm glad I went with my heart and my gut. I later learned that we bent over backward to avoid any impropriety.

The problem is that not everyone understands what's allowed and what isn't. Some people think "oh, I hope to see you tomorrow!" is promising a bid. It isn't. It's being polite. PNMs don't usually understand what all the ins and outs are.

Thank you to all the ladies who took the time to reply. I'm not sure what Titchou is referring to as "gossip," but this particular chapter was fined by the university in the past for breaking recruitment rules (I'm assuming this means that they "dirty rushed"). In addition, I realize that each school has their own rules, but at my school, making disparaging remarks about another sorority (which they have done) directly breaks the published recruitment rules. My neighbor went through rush two years ago and they told her "God has brought you here to be a part of our sisterhood" and "you belong here" (she actually ended up preffing them regardless). Sorry if I got the terminology wrong, it's not silence in the strict sense during the Summer, but no recruiting or social media contact is allowed between actives and PNMs. However, this house gets around it by having moms and alumnae host dinner parties and cookouts and use social media to recruit. I've already been invited to a graduation party where an alum told us girls "when you see what we've got prepared for you girls, you won't be able to sign your pref card fast enough." In addition, during the actual silence the week before recruitment, moms will call on PNM moms, aggressively trying to lobby their sorority.

1) You know what happens when you assume. Dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules!
2) NPC rules prohibit fines for violations so I doubt the U fined them.
3) I don't see anything wrong with what the girl was told 2 years ago.
4) Many cities have these parties in the summer and I wouldn't dare denigrate a group for doing it. If you already know the person, silence is pretty well tossed out the window.
5) No problem with what you were told about the grad party.
6) Don't have a problem with the moms either.

Like I said, ignore the gossip because a lot of the above is simply that.

These are my personal takes on it and if you find fault with all of them, then maybe you need to pass on that group. Now, why don't you answer my question about your post on the other topic where you state you WILL be attending an SEC school but you seem to know exactly what they were for round one and have for several years?

1. No, you're right I shouldn't assume. Maybe dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules but surely a violation of recruitment rules = dirty rushing?
3. The Recruitment Rules (in the recruitment guidebook which is public info) specifically forbid phrases such as "you belong here" "I want to be your big sister" "See you tomorrow" and "we want you." Per the rules of MY school, what the active told my friend 2 years ago was a recruitment violation.
5. The alumna at the grad party told us that we would be receiving an invite to pref round at the least. I'm pretty sure that is a violation of recruitment rules at most schools.

Perhaps the school you went to or advise has different rules Titchou, but it's clear that this sorority has broken some rules. I have no reason to lie or speak badly of them. In fact I've admitted that my neighbor and good friend for a number of years is a member of this sorority and I have admitted that I think this is a very good house. The point of my post was not to "prove" that they dirty rushed but rather, accepting that fact, could you ultimately still choose to pref them in the end? I thank 1964Alum and you, Titchou, for your honest take on the matter.

As for your doubts, I hope I answered them in the other post. It's not too hard to figure out what girls wear to opening rounds, especially with social media being so proliferate. As I stated above, I do have neighbors and high school friends involved in my university's Greek Life, so stalking their albums for sorority activities is very easy!

No re: 1 (above). Your logic is flawed. Instead of dirty rushing and violating recruitment rules, let's consider DWIs and getting arrested. If so, your statement might look like this:

"Maybe [DWI] is not the only [way to get arrested] but surely [getting arrested] = [DWI]?"

If someone was arrested, based on this logic, then you would say that "surely" it was because of DWI. But what if they were arrested for shoplifting? Or assault? Or a bench warrant for having too many unpaid parking tickets? Or something else?

I hope that makes it clearer for you. Here's a sorority-specific example, based on my understanding of "dirty rushing":

Panhellenic recruitment rules state that "Panhellenic sororities are not to exceed $10,000.00 in the purchase, rental, and donation of any new decorations for all periods of formal membership recruitment." Sorority ABC knew that it was getting close to the $10,000 amount with decorations, and thought it had accounted for everything--but someone forgot to include tax and delivery fees when making the calculations, and they ended up spending $10,009.92 because of the mistake, which they didn't realize until they started tallying up the receipts. Whoops, recruitment violation...but I wouldn't describe that kind of mistake as "dirty rushing," even though it was a violation of recruitment rules to spend more than $10,000 on decorations, as it was unintentional and did not involve bid promising, gossiping about other chapters, breaking silence rules, or anything directly impacting the PNM experience.

How do you define "dirty rushing"? Maybe the term is used differently than at schools I've attended. If you are using the phrase as a synonym for breaking any recruitment rule, then yes, any violation would be "dirty rushing" by your definition, but you would be incorrect in saying that "dirty rushing is not the only violation of recruitment rules."



Anyway, ultimately, you'll have to come to your own conclusions about where you're comfortable. If you're not comfortable with the chapter because of what was told to your friend when she went through recruitment, then you'll have to take that into consideration when ranking chapters. And it might not be relevant in the end, if that chapter doesn't invite you back at some point in the process. Maybe you should cross that bridge when you come to it?

I'm curious about the "no fines" rule, because the chapters at my university definitely get fined, and I know of a nearby Big 10 university that fines, too. That chapter budgets for fines, because Panhellenic always gets chapters "for something." Usually it is decor related, but sometimes "bid promising" in the form of borderline comments comes up. Some people think "I hope to see you tomorrow" before pref is bid promising, for example.

My 18 year old self probably would not have been bothered by a chapter dirty rushing if I had fallen in love with the chapter and wanted to join and was offered a bid. My vindictive self would not have been alright with the dirty rushing if they bid promised me or one of my friends and then the bid did not materialize.

What is your purpose in asking what our opinion is? Do you need advice on how to deal with the summer communication you are engaged in with chapter members and alumnae? Are you concerned with potential negative impact for you if found out by other chapters? Do you want us to advise you on believing (or not) the pretty things the chapter or alums are telling you?

What I would say is go through rush, don't put your emotional eggs in one basket and see where the chips fall (sorry for the mixed metaphor). Dirty rushing, IMO, and where it would be a problem to a rushee here is if the chapter in question says "drop your other houses and SIP us. You definitely have a bid from us." You should not do that, particularly on the advice of a chapter member. Regardless of your best friend being in the chapter and you knowing and loving half the house, there are way too many variables for you to be guaranteed a spot.

If their dirty rushing was talking bad about another chapter, then you as a rushee should know that is not kosher and take it for what it is. If the dirty rushing was separating you from the other rushees so as to give you the hard sell, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, then you need to speak up. If you love the attention, just keep in mind that no matter how much they seem to love you, they still can't guarantee you a bid. No ifs ands or buts.

Rush infractions, by the way, can mean they turned in their bid lists 5 minutes late or their name tags were too big or they spent too much money on food. I don't think anyone would consider that dirty rushing. Do NOT read more into it than it is. At a huge school, it is really hard for a sorority to dirty rush in a way that could actually affect anyone's outcome.

So yes, I would pledge a house that is accused of dirty rushing. I however would go through the rush process very careful not to have a them or nothing attitude because you could very well end up with nothing and the day after rush is over you will be very sorry you didn't keep a clear head.

Best of luck.

Personally some of the things you mentioned would kind of squick me out.

But then again, Matthew McConaghey squicks my best friend out and I couldn't disagree more. Different strokes for different folks, in different situations.

And "we hope to see you tomorrow" or "God brought you to us" is not the same as "we will give you a bid." The first are excitement and hyperbole, the second is an outright promise that I definitely would run the other way from.

ETA: It sounds like you're afraid of ending up in this group and not having a choice about it. You always have a choice.

I'd be freaked out by a chapter telling me that God wanted me to go to their chapter. But honestly, at 18, I probably wouldn't have cared if I was dirty rushed.

With regards to fines from the MOI:

Monetary fines shall be acceptable only for a measurable offense of the Panhellenic’s governing documents or stated membership recruitment rules.
• The amounts of monetary fines shall be predetermined by a vote of the College Panhellenic Council and stated in the Panhellenic standing rules and/or membership recruitment rules prior to the beginning of recruitment.
• Examples of reasons for monetary fines may be limited to:
o Late recruitment event invitation lists
o Recruitment events that exceed designated event times
o Prohibited postings on social media outlets
o Lack of required chapter attendance at Panhellenic-sponsored event

TRUTH.

I don't think I'd want to join a chapter that did this. It just seems beyond tacky to try and get a mother to influence her daughter to join a certain sorority. Co-sign on the on the religious references in Pref, too-I would run screaming in the opposite direction before joining them. That's a very Southern thing to do, though, so I imagine a lot of girls wouldn't find it off-putting.

Since I am certain that the moms of the PNMs would not pass such along to their daughters so it wouldn't be dirty rushing because they would never know about it! ;)

On the other hand, that conversation could very well be a sorority woman calling a mother of a rushee to get information so that she can write a recommendation form. I know for sure my mom got at least one call during rush for this purpose. So again, you say dirty rush I say patata.

I've never heard the term "squick" but I think it describes the emotion you're describing exactly! Welcome to the South, where talk of God is never forbidden.

After reading some of your replies, I have come to realize that if I love a house and a group of girls so intensely, I should learn to accept the bad along with the good. Reading recruitment stories and listening to my older friends talk, I think many many girls do truly fall in love on pref night. Love (in my very young heart) shouldn't be about choosing the option with the least wrongs but instead, choosing the option with the most rights. I've always tried to do the right and ethical thing, so this dilemma hurts me a bit.

I think for the rest of the Summer, I'll continue attending the parties and socializing with actives, because I certainly don't want to alienate anyone before recruitment has even begun! I'll hear what the other sororities have to say and try to bond with the actives there. And at the end of pref night, if I'm still lucky enough to have a choice, I'll ask myself "can you be happier at any other sorority?" and if I can't, then I'd put them first, and if I can, then my decision would have been made.

That patata came bearing gifts. An expensive bottle of wine and a Waterford Crystal-like vase. But surely all alum mom wanted to do was show her support and provide emotional comfort in the stressful times, right? Right? :rolleyes:

EDIT: Sarcasm wasn't directed at you DubaiSis by the way.

That patata does sound over the top. Plus, isn't buying wine for a minor illegal?

The wine is for mom, silly. :D

Hahaha...I thought patata was buying for the neighborhood PNMs. Illegal, but savvy!

No, the alums and actives of this one particular sorority have recruitment parties over the Summer. Per the recruitment guide for 2014, PNMs are not to have "non-normal contact" with actives or alums. The graduation party I mentioned earlier was hosted by an alum I had never met before, but there were actives there who I knew from high school activities. Also the rules state that actives and alums can't purchase meals for PNMs, but this event was catered for. This is also where the "you won't be able to sign your pref card fast enough" comment came from. I thought this party (and some comments made by the actives present) was a little suspect, so I Googled the recruitment rules for my school and found that it broke the rules that I described above. I then felt torn, so I decided to put the question to the ladies of GC. Some feel as if the party was completely kosher and I'm overreacting, even though by the book it's illegal. I'm just a little more confused now than before I even posted!

With our rush deferred for a full year back in the Dark Ages, what we called "Rush Functions" were very common. And very useful both for the PNMs and the actives. Our alums did not get involved except with our Rush chair, who would ask us to invite a particular young lady we may or may not have earlier known. Or we would suggest someone known to us. They were organized strictly by the individual GLOs and generally weren't "Pumps and Pearls" events. At least I never heard of or participated in any such events. Ours were all informal, casual, and with smaller groups of PNMs and actives. We had them quite frequently.

They worked very well, more like going out with a group of girlfriends. Always Dutch. They generally started the second semester of the PNM's Freshman year after first semester grades came out. They gave PNMs a head start as well as the GLOs in terms of girls we really, really wanted and/or we knew we would have lots of competition for. By the time formal rush rolled around, many PNMs had met many different members from different groups and had a fair idea of the general personality of each.

The ONLY time I remember Formal Recruitment being mentioned or even referred to at all at these functions was to ask a young lady if she had signed up for rush the semester before as soon as registration began. The only exception to that were the breakfasts we would invite our strongest candidates to right before rush began, and we were all back at school. At that time we could say things like "I'm so happy to see you!" or "I look forward to seeing you!" as everyone went to all of the houses for the first round. After Silence began we were very, very discreet. I think both the actives and the PNMs were more discreet back then once Silence began.

Recruitment is so stressful as it is, I truly think the informal pre-rush functions take the edge off many on both sides of formal recruitment. I think it would have been much more difficult for me to chose had I not had those earlier and more natural opportunities to get to know active members as well as some other PNMs!

The downside were those young women we didn't meet until formal recruitment had actually started. We always ended up pledging a fair number of them so it did seem to work out.

Despite the pre-rush rush I had experienced, I took NOTHING for granted during formal rush and heaved a large sigh of relief after each round up to and including getting my bid card. And did the same as an active on the other side! As a PNM I saw the quality of other PNMs, and as an active knew there was lots of quality in other GLOs. Recruitment is a time to develop humility if you don't already have it! Many things have likely changed over the years, but not the qualities and attributes looked for on both sides of rush.

This party sounds like "normal" contact. A graduation party where only graduates NOT going thru recruitment are invited would be highly ill-mannered. And since a proper party requires refreshments of some sort, the caterer is "normal." Also, you knew these actives and so talking with you would be "normal." Sure, someone may say something about recruitment - but it wouldn't be a big deal. You are making far more out of a simple event than PH ever intended you to. And forget what older alums say - no one can control them. Quit being so literal.

I think this is a case of regional norms. This thread has been very eye-opening to me. I can tell you that parties of this sort would not happen in my neck of the woods, and would be viewed as highly suspect.

In your neck of the woods, this may be much more typical...as evidenced by some of the southern GCers saying, "what's the big deal?" and I'm thinking, "I've heard of this kind of pre-recruitment networking, but I've never seen it in person here."

When you say "graduation party," was this an event for a graduating senior you know, and this friend's mom was promoting her sorority, with other active members of the sorority happening to be there as friends of the student? I'd say that's natural. Or, was this an event you feel you were invited to, as a graduating senior, and the purpose was to recruit PNMs? Were only graduating women invited? In that case, I can see where you may feel pressured.

I think this is the kind of "inside edge" a lot of PNMs would love to have. However, I completely understand your hesitancy. You're about to leave home for college, which is an exciting time of increased independence, and it sounds like you're feeling a bit "predestined" for this group, when you'd really like to go into recruitment with an open mind, with more independence when weighing your options. I don't think too many people want to have another mom telling them what's good for them at this point in time -- I think that's completely natural.

I agree that this party was a graduation party and catering and all is above board. The older alum comment is something that happens everywhere all the time, north or south, so don't even worry. Just enjoy your recruitment period and it'll all work out.

In this time, I'd like to refer to some advice you gave me: Don't ever assume things. I kindly ask that you refrain from assuming things about this party that I went to, because I highly doubt that you were there. As this party was as of yet my only person experience with "dirty rushing" I think it would be best if I explained it fully.

About two weeks before graduation, I received in the mail an invitation to a "Congratulations you graduated!" party hosted by an alum whom I had never met before. I was kind of expecting such an invitation because back in April when a lot of actives were back in town for Easter, I let them know that I was going to go through recruitment in the Fall. My neighbor (she is in the house in question) told me "oh great, well, alums will probably have parties this Summer. I'll make sure that you get introduced!" Plus, all the seniors in my HS know about these, so use were kind of expecting them. My mother and any sisters we may have (I don't) were also invited.

Day of, my mother and I arrived, and it was immediately apparent that the other guests were graduated seniors, their mothers and sisters, and other actives and alums of this sorority. I knew almost all of the other seniors because we all had decided to rush. I knew some of the actives, but certainly not a majority. The hostess and others there congratulated us on graduating, and then we started the meal. Yes, it was a full 4 course meal with hors d'oeuvres, not just "refreshments." Conversation wasn't full on "you should join XYZ because we have the highest GPA, our girls are the classiest, etc. etc." It was more subtle than that. For example, someone would ask what our summer plans were, and an active would chime in with how she and her sisters went on a trip to Europe last year, and wasn't it so nice to be able to meet XYZ alums in a country so far away? A senior would be asked her major and then someone would say "why, Sally is an accounting major too!" And then Sally would share her story of how she would study with her equally studious sisters and how they guided her through interviews for her internship. Additionally, if a senior said something like "do you get along well with ABC? They're very academically focused too" then the bad mouthing would start. But of course, bad mouthing in a very Southern passive-aggressive way.

Besides the pref card comment by the alum, actives would say things like "we hope to see all of you on our lawn on Bid Day," more God/Jesus-y things, "I've watched you since you were a sophomore and I know you'll be an excellent sister." At the worst, what was said was oral bidding and illegal, and at the best, it was highly highly misleading (especially given the exclusive setting).

I'm truly trying to go through with an open mind during rush. I think I've done a good job keeping an independent mind over the years, and I know my mom won't pressure me into anything (she never rushed, so the whole sorority thing really baffles her).

Thanks for the explanation. Yeah, that's a little more than "Susan Sigma graduated and there just happen to be lots of Sigma alumnae at her party where friends and family were invited. "

Have there been any other sororities/alumnae having parties in your area, or is it just this one?

There have been things like pool parties, dinner, mini golf, just hanging out and chilling at people's houses with friends of friends who are actives, or sisters of friends who are actives. Sometimes the groups have 2-3 actives of one particular sorority, sometimes a friend whose mom is an alum will order a pizza if we're at someone's house for a pool party. I would consider all of this normal contact though, because it's always a group of people who I personally know. The grad party was by far the most formal and had the most number of actives/alums and people I didn't know.

Please remove the info about your family that you posted. Too identifiable.

I still don't have a problem even with your added explanation. ONLY graduates were at the party so it was a GRADUATION party. The type and amount of food is irrelevant. At home, we would have probably had a crawfish boil...which can be quite the event. I still believe you are over thinking this. But, it is your choice. If you want to mark these people at the bottom of your ranking, it's certainly your right.

Wait, really? I understand this might be a regional difference, but a sorority throwing a party for recent grads is suspect, to me.

The alum had the party......she issued the invitation to only female graduates...not female graduates signed up for recruitment - just female graduates...though I'm sure the OP will come back with one more clarification to make it all fall in line better...which screams troll....

It kind of seems like one of the pre-recruitment teas some chapters are known to host, at least to me. Not what I would call dirty rushing, though plenty of the PHC rules make me roll my eyes anyways....i.e. can only have cut fruit instead of fruit scooped by a melon baller because not everyone can afford a melon baller (even though they're like $5 at Walmart :rolleyes:)

I would suggest you read my explanation of the party more closely then because all of the graduated seniors who were invited were all going to go through rush. I am not "making up details" to suit my narrative. That's frankly quite insulting.

It seems from the beginning that you are laser-sighted on trying to prove me a fraud or get me to shut up. Your main complaint with me asking this question is "you are a PNM, you don't know anything." I have received a lot of well-meaning advice from other GC ladies in the form of replies to the OP and in the form of PMs. For what reason would I "troll?" I am not religious so I have no pastor to talk to, for obvious reasons I can't talk about this to my friends, my mom is not a member of a GLO, and Greekrank is (for also obvious reasons) a terrible source. I tried using a wonderful resource called Google, but could not find queries similar to mine. GC seems the best resource.I have read GC for the past year, looking for advice and getting excited by Recruitment Stories. Now that it's my turn to go through recruitment, I thought it wise to utalize my resources. While again I thank the ladies who take the time to be helpful to me, I am very disappointed in how things have devolved between us Titchou. If you doubt so much my intentions, might I suggest you no longer continue commenting on this post? If I am truly a troll, I will stop when I have no more attention. I have tried PM-ing you to see where I have gone wrong and where I can make amends but that seems to be unfruitful.

TBH, I think you need to forget about this party and any others you may go to before recruitment actually happens. And by forget about I mean, stop letting it weigh so heavily on your conscious. Wait until recruitment starts, see how you feel at houses, see where you get invited back, and go where you feel most comfortable. Period end. Unless you're blatantly trying to screw PNMs over, 'dirty rushing' and a lot of the PHC rules (see melon baller example above) don't really matter.

^^^^^^^