Saving yourself..to what extent??
 

Hm..now, i'm all for saving one's self until marriage...but to what extent? I was just watching the Ananda show, and there was a teen gal who said she's "saving herself" until marriage. And by this, she meant everything, not just sex. She's actually saving her first *kiss* for her wedding night. What do y'all think about this?

The sex thing...fine, I can understand that.
But, a kiss?!
I would feel really bad for her if she waited until her wedding night to get her first kiss and her husband was a sloppy kisser! Yuck! :)
I honestly have never heard of someone who is willing to wait until their wedding night to receive their first kiss. That's a new one.

You can always find somebody who will say just about anything on TV. I think saving the "first kiss" is the kind of bizarre stuff you see on the talk show to flame somebody.

actually, my friend's cousin and her fiance(now husband)'s first kiss was their "you may now kiss the bride" kiss

I saw that show too. Both those girls were waaay on the extreme. One saying she won't even kiss a guy yet, the other saying she's slept with over 30 guys. :eek:

Personally I think saving your first kiss for the wedding night (which I think she probably meant the wedding...you know "you may now kiss the bride"?!) is WAY extreme! I can see saving sex for the wedding night (not that I did or anything...:D) but a kiss?! Come on!

That's what you call major will power!

lol that's one way to put it, I was thinking FRIGID myself. ;)

Yeah . . . I was thinking more like "She'll be waiting a long long looooong time for that kiss then . . . "

eep
 

wow...that's deep. i mean...whatever cranks your tractor and all, but seriously. personally, it's just too much fun sometimes to just get some random face (and by "face" i mean makin' out...some ppl call something else "face", just to clarify that one).

by the time she gets some, whether it's a kiss or actual sex, she'll have cobwebs all over her body. more power to her. i think it's admirable to save yourself for the wedding night, but i don't see anything wrong w/kissing before you say, "i do".

Wow. I hope I meet a girl like that. Not that will make we wait till wedding night to kiss but one that will date me but not let me make out the first time we're alone together. Yeah, cuz then if I have to wait for that I'll be not minding waiting for other stuff too. I'd have to really been into her though. OR i'd just steal a kiss. ;)

Wow, if we all had to save ourselves for our wedding nights, and couldn't even do "other" things, we would all be getting married really young . . . or at least I would have :D

Imaginary conversation with PArents:

Parent: Well, you should really go to college first . . .

Me: Not until after I am married!

Parent: Don't you want to see the world?

Me: Not until After I am married!

Parent (must be mom :rolleyes:): Wow you must be really in love.

Me: Not exactly. She's just really a sure thing and your sucky matriarchal cultural values have turned me into a white hot ball of quivering testosterone fury! I might explode! So its either get married to get laid, or turn into a homosexual serial killer.

I know a girl here at college who is planning to have her 1st kiss on her wedding night (apparently), and she's had a boyfriend for a few years now. He's a few years older and I'm sure they're planning to get married when she graduates. I think she's pretty seriously religious, but she's not a weirdo or anything. She's a really pretty, petite, nice girl. I personally don't see the point in not kissing before marriage, but for people who talk about "saving themselves," I think it makes sense to save everything, not just actual intercourse. I really don't want to hear about "saving themselves" from girls who've been giving blow jobs since middle school but are still "technical" virgins. I think if someone wants to save their "sexual purity" for their spouse, they should not go much beyond kissing with other people. Not that I'm saying anyone needs to save themselves (sexually) for the one they marry. I'm 21 now, not a virgin, and I can certainly see myself sleeping with at least a few more guys before I find someone I want to settle down with for the rest of my life. And I certainly don't hold my future husband to any higher standard than I hold myself.

To each his/her own, but damn, waiting that long for any piece of action is crazy.

While I find it admirable, I think some people need to realize that you never know when you'll be walking down the aisle. I feel it's more important to wait for the right person, whether it be your spouse or someone else. I met the man I consider to be Mr. Right, who I love so much, and thought he would honestly be the first and last person I slept with for the rest of my life. Unfortunately, life got in the way and we were separated, but I do not regret anything that happened between us. I think that is what is important.

Well, here's my issue, what do you think of girls who do everything but actual sex and call themselves virgins.

My thing is, oral sex isn't intercourse, but it is very intimate and some women reserve that for a serious relationship or even after sex. Let's face it, you can still get STD's from oral sex-unless we are talking about using a condom, which how many ppl do that?

Anyway, I'm just saying that the word virgin, to me, isn't someone who has gone through the motions but just hasn't given it up 100%.

Just wondering what others thought.

Yeah I totally agree with you...I may be considered "old-fashioned", but I agree with the older generation who consider oral sex to be sex. I don't know, that's just me though...but I think people are smart enough to make their own decisions as to what "sex" means to them and go with that. Maybe some people feel that oral is less intimate than intercourse, but i'd have to disagree..if anything, it might be more so! Just my opinions.. :)

I consider sex to be actual penetration, so to me, someone who hasn't been is still a virgin, now, that doesn't mean they are pure, that's for sure!

LexiKD, this is what I mean when I use the term "technical virgins". If you are perfectly happy to give and recieve orgasms through different modalities than penetration (Amycats word)intercourse then you are not being particularly virtous. And relgious virtue is probbaly the only real reason used for the whole maintaining an intact hymen idea until painful marriage dfloweration . .. which has to absolutely suck for your first experience on your marriage bed.

Also, for those maintaining virginity for Religious reasons: I doubt your GOd is much amused by all the other types of sexual contact you choose to indulge in. Remember, its the spirirt of the idea not the letter that your God holds you to. A lawyer is NOt going to get you into heaven (in fact having one talk for you might keep you out).

So keep it at least a little real or at least stop lying to us all.

I agree with HotDamGam. At a time when I think sex is overrated (and what I mean is that its all you see and hear about. I have to listen to my friends talk about it non stop, and i gotta agree with what one guy said...if you talk about it that much and feel like youd die if you didnt get any, you either SUCK in bed and no one has told you or you're a bunch of talk),I think its very admirable of them and I say more power to ya. After all, you cant miss or long for something you've never had. Seems our society has sex on the brain 24/7. Im old school though and think its something between 2 ppl that doensnt need to be made public. They I put it in to my friends.. I dont care what you do, who its with or what position and you're giving me bad mental images of you and your boy (who's not cute). Ew!

No wait a minute...lets just supose I meet a girl and fall in love but she won't give it up till our wedding night. Fine, but she better know how to give head. I don't want Optimist Juinor to be all bruised and chewed up.

Give it a rest...
 

I've read enough about guys wanting oral for one night. Maybe we better send those who obsess on it to the men's room.

Re: Give it a rest...
 

Okay, as a recent addition to this board, I have noticed a lot of talk about oral sex on the guys part...and maybe this is a totally new topic, but...aren't there any women out there that enjoy giving it? Personally, I think it's very powerful.

First of all very few women get married "intact". It is a rather delicate membrane that can be broken due to something as simple as riding horses or bikes and taking a fall. The "pain" is a non issue for MOST since many aren't even aware it happened...
If the hymen is thick then yes, there could be some momentary discomfort- maybe for a few, pain, but it isn't a majority by any means.

Most girls DO start out hoping/thinking they will save themselves.
Honestly, how many of the women posting thought, "Man I've got to get me some before I get married!"
The thing is, everything is working against those hopes-the advertisment and media climate is all abut sex. The music industry-videos and lyrics-is as well. Add to the mix that many people are getting married at an older age. College has taken the place of HS and just at the time people once married we now see a minimum of 4 more years before independance. Biological needs are out of sync with our society.

To the oiginal question, I agree it is extreme to deny oneself the pleasure of a kiss. I also believe that many women in an attempt
to please/attract/keep men go much farther than they would prefer (in the beginning). The truth is, once you cross the line, it is so very difficult to say "Never again". THIS WAS MY FATHER'S ADVICE. Each landmark you cross that brings you closer to sexual intimacy erases prior limitations. Soon, justifications creep into your mind and you give yourself the "green light" to continue on your sexual journey BUT are you emotionally ready?

Men will forever seek sexual experieces. Why women are so naive'(stupid?) to fall for the pressures and supposedly logical arguments men exert on them to have sex is beyond me. Instead of throwing stones or lashing out at those who would TRY to remain virtuous, we should applaud them and support them in their choice. Considering the broken hearts on this board alone, the women who cheat on their friends the men and women seeking comfort outside of their OWN marriage or relationship, leads me to believe we have done more harm to ourselves as women by relaxing our stance on intimacy. The men are lapping up the cream. OK...BLAST ME!

Thank you, I totally agree with this. I'm totally impressed with others who've also decided to wait until marriage. For some reason though, maybe because there is more emphasis or pressure on the guys to have sex, I think i'm more impressed to find out a guy is saving himself. Doesn't seem to happen too often around here! Like I said though, I think everyone is responsible enough to know the choices that are right for *them* and should act accordingly. There's a definite amount of emotional intimacy you miss out on in a relationship by not having sex, so that has been reason for a lot of my friends who've had sex with boyfriends. Oh but I actually only know one girl of my friends from high school who's still a virgin, and probably less than 10 in my sorority....are we a dying breed?!

Justamom, I don't think the problem lies with men pressuring women or laying down devestatingly logical arguments that force women to have sex with them. If you know said arguments please email them to me ;).

I just think that the rarely mentioned subtext on the issue is that the man wil eventually tire of the virgin situation. He knows it and she knows it. It creates a lot of tension. Obviously the man isn't looking it at the same way she is, which I assume is some type of religious prohibilition, because arguing it through ethics would be really hard and give me a headache. Its easier to take the Thou Shalt Not approach, it ends the argument.

So to him the fact remains that she doesn't want to have sex with him, and is maybe uncomfortable with some other types of activities also. To him that is no different than if the girl has some type of sexual dysfunction that doesn't allow her to want to have sex with him until they establish the level of committmen called marriage. The end result to him is the same and he has no guarentee that she is going to turn into some adventorous sexual predator after the ring goes on either.

Also, its an economics issue for guys. There are many marvelous women out there that are bright, witty, loyal, relationship orientated . . . and will be physically intimate with the guy without much drama. If he is into that type of sexual intimacy it would make more sense for him to leave his non-sexual relationship and take up with the other awesome girl.

The "soul mate" is a cute argument. But the vast majority of people don't meet, travel, or date enough people to ever even have a small claim that they have "looked" for their soul mate.

If you date a small handful of people and then marry one, did ou find your soul mate? Or the best out of a limited field? Or worse dating an alright person at the time you thought you should marry. I have talked to numerous married people that said the relationship before or the one before that was actually the right one.

I don't have a problem with women that want to remain virgins and I wouldn' t pressure one much, but I don't think its useful for a lot of them to sit there and say the world should be different to reflect their beliefs. I also don't hav a lot of sympathy for men that whine and give attitude about not getting any when dating a virgin.

statistics
 

Well, yeah. Especially by the later years of college, the norm is not to be a virgin anymore. Not that I'm saying that's how it should be, but that's just a description of how things are in 2002. Plenty of college-aged girls never really thought they should/would wait for marriage (especially considering the AVERAGE age to get married is around 25/26 now)... at least they gave up on the thought of waiting once they passed junior high.... and a good portion of those who do still idealize abstinence before marriage end up not exactly following that in the face of temptation.

The truth is (statistically), the VAST majority of women/men aren't virgins on their wedding night. If you actually are, more power to you, but you are a rarity. The norm now, and for a pretty long time, has been premarital sex (which I think is a dumb term since people have, on average, about a decade of premarital sex)... whether people kept it hush-hush or talked about it openly (as lots do today).

Justamom, I don't think the problem lies with men pressuring women or laying down devestatingly logical arguments that force women to have sex with them. If you know said arguments please email them to me .

James, just read your own posts. (wink, wink)

JAM, I agree with what you said.

James says: "Also, its an economics issue for guys."

An economic Issue??? Uh...like how much will she cost you before payback time....Geeze. Why don't you just ask her up front and be done with it. Isn't that what they do on street corners

JAM, Ok I can see that, true. I just think its a reverse presurre. He knows he's not going to change her so he is just going to be sad and leave. She is putting the pressure on herself, because she liked the guy that wants to have sex with her. . . oh that is all too complicated and painful sounding lol. We humans do like to botch stuff don't we?

H2oot, all I'm saying is that somewhere down the line the guy is going to realize that there are other gret girls without the same type of sexual limitations. This doesn't always happen. But its out there, especially when his friends get through with him ;)

don't think i'm a crazy slut, but...
 

Maybe I'm unusual for a girl, but I sort of do feel that way. Even if I met a great guy tomorrow, I would still feel like I'm way too young to be entirely finished dating around and experiencing different types of guys. I think I SHOULD get some more sexual experience before I settle down with one guy forever. Maybe that would change if I met "the one," but the thought of settling down without living a little first is really scary.

I know a lot of guys my age (21) feel the same way, even to a greater extent.

Re: don't think i'm a crazy slut, but...
 

I agree with you. I can't imagine my first experience (almost 19 yrs old at the time) being my ONLY experience. I can't imagine giving up so many of the experiences I've had.

Only now, at 32, having dated A LOT can I say if I met THE ONE tomorrow, I may not be ready to get married, but I am ready to be monogamous to him and only him. I feel I've done and experienced enough to know that when I meet him, I will KNOW this is something special.

If I'd gone w/ my first, it would've been a hormonal thing, NOT a RIGHT thing.

We each will do what is comfy for us, when it is right for us. I respect people's right to wait, just as they should respect mine not to. I am 32 and single, and there's no way in hell I would wish to still be a virgin at my age-- GIVE up all the fun I've had? Not a chance in hell I'd do that! hee hee

Well . . . maybe look at it like this (guy's perspective):

How do we 'rate' people as potential partners? Basically, we sit down and examine the positives and negatives (subconsciously) of each person.

Now, a strong sexual side to the relationship is a definite positive - so, since we're all seeking to optimize our relationships, if another girl came along with that positive, and all other things are equal, it makes perfect sense to seek that out.

Now, does intercourse necessarily equal a strong sex life? Not always . . . but each of us has our own thoughts on that.

I haven't exactly gotten into "rating" guys or "optimizing" relationships. To me its more about bonding, intimacy, compatibility, and chemistry. And these blend together on an emotional and intellectual level not as a rating on a score card (pun intended).

There is a lot to be said about the mystery of love and coming together as a couple....and discovery.

If you really wanted to do this objectively you could:

1) sleep with a control group of women of various sizes, nationalities, races...hey maybe even a few guys (ya never know...wink.)

2) sleep with your prospective mate for comparison. You should prolly videotape it so you can fully assess reactions, mean time to orgasm, flexibility, durability, max torque, RPMs, etc.

3) conduct a cost benefit analysis of the relationship. Maybe you can get a better "deal" with the gal down the street. Who knows, maybe at the corner pub you can get a "two for one" or a "happy hour special."

4) be sure you "breed" a couple of kids to see if your prospect is as responsive after a day with the kids. I mean a guy as to be sure the lady keeps him smiling.

5) etc., etc.

I want to clairify one thing--I'm not against pre-marital sex, I am stressing that I will BE with a guy depending on my emotional readiness and not because some guy feels it's his due or if he threatens to move on.

I agree as you get older some of the issues may change, but for now I'm about being in love first. What works for me is if sex is an expression of my love, than to hope I can find love out of sex.

Ok, I see all of everyone's points and Yes I do agree that it would be more than a hardship to wait until you married to have sex, BUT:

Let's face it, back in the day couples were married at much younger ages and had making a family as #1 prority...that is not so much the case any longer.

In today's dating world, it is a few dates, if not sooner that men expect something to happen. I do not condone this, but I do understand.

I am 23 and most the men I date are at least 25-26 and they are not high school guys that will sit around and wait for the physical side to happen, they want to see if you both have chemistry or not.

Now, that doen't mean I want to run into bed with every man I meet, by far that is not the case. But when and if I met someone I felt was reasonable and that we had future potential then I would consider becoming more serious and no I wouldn't allow myself to pretend I was so virtuous and do everything but sleep with him. I think you either save it or you don't; don't even get me on born agian virgins!

And if I wanted to save it and was 23 and hadn't already given it away, then you bet I wouldn't until the big day; for no other reason that I wouldn't want to go out like a chump.

Can you imagine how traumatizing it would be to have both your first kiss and "first time" on the same night? Saving sex for marriage is something I completely understand, but kissing too? That doesn't seem like a healthy pacing for a normal sex life!

Am I the only one out here on this wavelength?

I didn't have sex in high school - didn't date anyone seriously enough. I wasn't particularly interested in "saving myself for marriage," but the guy I dated through most of college wasn't interested in sex. He was very much into his technical virginity ... I sometimes felt, geez, am I the only girl on the planet who has to put the pressure on the guy? (I tried not to, really.)

Now I find being sex itself (in the strictest sense of "sex") a little uncomfortable. No guy has ever made me feel uncomfortable - it is in MY head that I wish I had more experience and had a better idea of what I was doing. I would rather have explored more of my sexuality with a guy who was doing the same thing, not someone with more experience.

Conclusion: If you want to save yourself, date other people who want to save themselves.

Fuzzie-
You're not the only one-- I didn't have sex in high school either--it never even occurred to me as an option.

And I know plenty of women, friends of mine who maybe have only slept with 3, 4, 5 men, who feel as you do.

Amy

you've gotta be kidding!
 

ok, i was keeping myself out of these conversations until this ridiculous quote. not to attack you personaly fuzziealum (that is not my point:) ) but you are WAY OFF BASE and have no basis or right to your claim.

I'll tell you why.

I'm 23. and a virgin. yes i know, very rare. (and i'm sure james, who saw me in action on saturday night is probably shocked out of his mind!) right, james?! ;)

why, you may ask, would a normal 23 year old stay a virgin for so long? you're probably thinking, she must be weird or a religious fanatic (clearly not!) or something else, but that is just not true. the reason is because i have never liked someone to that extent. and ALL, and i mean ALL of my friends who started to have sex in college will now sleep with almost anyone. they don't have to be dating for a long time, or even dating at all. that is just not my style.

am i against sleeping with someone before marriage? no. a resounding no. but until i find someone worthy of me, i will wait. and i'm not waiting for "the one"...far from that! just someone who means a lot to me.

so for you to say that i should only date other men who don't want to sleep with any jane, mary or nicole is ludicrous. i'll date who i want to! and if they aren't mature enough to deal with not sleeping with me right away, then they clearly aren't mature and are definitely not high quality. i'm not going to date only virgins. no one walks around with a virginity sign around their neck so we would know who they are! if someone wants to get married after sleeping with dozens of people in their past, go for it. but to me, sleeping with my husband after having such a colorful past would just be a drop in the bucket. what a waste.

i am fuming right now. some people think they have the right to judge others. i'm not judging anyone on their sexual past, whether it is or is not existant. i judge the quality of the PERSON. period.

don't get on a high horse---when you fall you'll really hurt yourself.:mad: