Sexism or Lack of Professionalism?
 

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Her fb post

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http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/inde....html#comments


I just there are so many things wrong with this. She sounds like an entitled brat who has no clue about professionalism, interviewing or general guidelines for acceptable outfits in certain situations.

You shine yourself up for an interview just like you do a resume. Competition is fierce in this job market and if there are multiple acceptable candidates it's going to come down to other specifics.

It matters how you dress to an interview regardless if you are a man or a woman. Some places have a more relaxed dress code, but for an interview, you dress the most professional you can possibly look. I used to work in software and my old company had a very relaxed dress code. However, for my interview, I wore a navy pantsuit, heels and my long hair back in a chignon. She's being a brat. Show you care about getting the job. What you wear can say a lot about that. Someone may have a sparkling resume, but look like you gave a crap. What she's wearing in that picture does look like she's about to go clubbing rather than interview for a job.

I'm not clear on how much notice they gave her for the interview. It says, "out of the blue." Does that mean they called her at 3 and asked her to come in at 4?

I wouldn't hire her based on her sucky attitude. Just because something doesn't go your way doesn't allow you to put it on blast via Facebook. She just shot herself in the foot for any future job opportunities. And it looks like the company dodged a bullet by not offering her the job. What happens when she has a disagreement with her boss or another coworker? Another Facebook rant with swearing?

I work for a software company that provides services to the healthcare industry as well. I was referred to the company by a current employee, knew that the staff was 85% male and that the dress code was incredibly lax. I walked past men in board shorts and hoodies into that interview with someone wearing a polo and khakis while I was wearing a black dress, black blazer and modest pumps. Because that's what you do.

I now recruit for my company. If you don't bother trying to impress me before you have the job, I can only assume that you'd present yourself the same way to clients. And you'd better believe that I check your social media, too.

Agreed.

Baby Girl, save the sexy clothes & makeup for clubbing. This is NOT a "woman issue", this is a presentation issue - and you are not presenting yourself appropriately for the corporate world. A man wearing the male equivalent would not be hired, either. Get over yourself!

Hmmmm. I somewhat disagree with other commenters here. I think that in some ways, students coming out of college should be given some slack. They're new to the professional world, especially those who don't have money to take unpaid internships (I'm guessing this about her based on the four jobs). Internships are where you learn a lot about professional dress & behavior, and interns are often mentored on this.

I had a semi-professional wardrobe coming out of college mostly because of the sorority. If not--an interview outfit might have looked something like this. I also have trouble with shirts showing too much cleavage (With sweaters, I often wear camisoles backwards, with the tags clipped out, because they're higher cut that way).

Plus, it has to hurt to hear why she was rejected. I think the company was trying to help, but it might have been better just to go with "we went in another direction." Hearing all the reasons makes you want to protest.

(On the other hand, 20 minutes isn't "a few minutes late")

I call bullshit on her "allegation" (on Facbook, roll eyes) that she was told by a recruiter that she had the skills and personality but wasn't dressed "professionally enough". Nope, that didn't happen. She didn't get the job she wanted ( too bad, so sad) and so she's resorting to playing a lame sexist card to make herself feel better.

Those "four jobs" are not four jobs that prevent you from having time to pick up a book about what's proper interview attire. Students don't get a "pass." We all knew what to wear BEFORE senior year. Her dismissive attitude toward the current employees' attire (they dress like bums, how dare they tell me what's appropriate) just makes things worse.

She will never get anywhere with such a huge chip on her shoulder, regardless of her technical skills.

I knew what to wear when I interviewed for a retail job my senior year of high school (wore a skirt suit and heels for that). Unless she's had her head stuck in a hole somewhere, she knows how to dress for an interview. If she didn't have an outfit, couldn't she borrow from a friend? I've loaned friends 'interview' clothes back in the day. It doesn't have to be expensive--just professional. With her sucky attitude, that company dodged a bullet in hiring her. I doubt the HR person called her out on her clothes and she's merely using that as an excuse.

I'd probably cut her a bit of slack on the outfit (but the large run would indicate sloppiness/lack of attention to detail), due to her age. Honestly, some actives' chapter meeting outfits look like get ups we would have worn to a certain theme party back in the day, and they don't see it. This skirt was better than the tight tube skirts and stacked pumps you see. This is why our Sorority gives explicit guidelines for dress at Convention.

Her attitude is indicative of the Millenials...they have a lot of confidence that they will change the world, they dislike the authority held by older generations, they expect instant success, etc. So she hits FB with a profanity-laced tirade instead of waiting a day, cooling down, and thinking about the advice they gave her...brutal, but honest. She's shot herself in the foot, because now anytime a prospective employer Googles her name, this will pop up and any company is going to be very nervous about her lack of discretion, her attitude, and her reaction to constructive criticism.

There's also a class element to this. I don't know about this specific situation, but in general, students who are first-generation college attendees don't have the level of guidance some of us did. Of course, career centers and the like have resources, but it's not the same as coming from a white-collar family.

I think that recruiter did her a tremendous favor. How many jobs have you not gotten and received ZERO indication as to why or how you might improve on the next interview?

This girl needs to cool off somewhere and woman up. She doesn't know how to dress for interviews, and she learned that lesson in a high-stakes, somewhat embarrassing way. Most career centers will offer guidance on what to wear, but I've heard many a career counselor say that many undergraduate women tend to disbelieve the guidance on how conservatively they should be dressing.

I've said this before - I think career attire for women is much more difficult than it is for men. Men wear suits starting at a young age for all kinds of formal social and academic functions. Young women basically never have an occasion to wear interview-appropriate attire, and on top of that, they see a much wider range of acceptable work wear, depending on the profession. I understand why it can be so confusing.

I can't see the sexism.

Before my first professional job interview after college, I spent hours googling acceptable interview clothing for my industry. I went shopping specifically for a new blazer. I wore a pencil skirt, nylons (despite that probably being unnecessary in Florida) and heels. My current position is incredibly casual despite being in corporate finance, and I still wore a suit to the interview. You don't need a counselor or an advisor to do research on your own.

And if you're offered a last minute interview you can't make it to, offer to meet at a different time to ensure you're not late. If it's a new area, leave early - way early. Better to sit in your car waiting for 20 minutes than be late.

Unless you grew up under a rock, do not have web access, learned everything you know via osmosis, and have literally never been outside around other humans ever, there is no excuse for blaming legitimately poor presentation on anyone but yourself.

Agreed. My university and my daughter's offer Etiquette Dinners, and mine even offers "Surviving a Golf Outing." Some of the difficulty is that students have to be open to this information, which many are. Someone who carries an attitude of "I look good already, I'm not conforming to the expectations of Big Business! They can conform to me!" is probably not going to be the first one to line up for these kinds of seminars.

My daddy always said the "if you're early you're on time, if you're on time you're late, if you're late don't bother showing up." It's served me well. Plus with something stressful like an interview it's always nice to have time to collect yourself once you get to your destination. Bathroom, check your clothes etc...

Oh, hellz no.

I was a first gen college student too, as were many of my classmates, and we all knew that you didn't go to an interview in a jersey knit dress with a sloppy sweater over it - even if it was for a job where you'd be wearing jeans every day. Don't college women read Glamour anymore? They always talked about this stuff.

EXACTLY. There's little to no class element to this, only an entitled special snowflake element. First-generation college students weren't raised in a barn--and they're not always working class or poor, either.

Also, can we please stop acting like Millenials are the source of all problems in this world? It's tired, trite, and incorrect. The issue is generational--the same complaints Boomers are making about Millenials, the Greatest Generation was making about Baby Boomers. People in their early 20s tend to be narcissistic. The Millenials aren't the first, nor are they the last, narcissistic group of adolescents and young adults.

One major thing that has changed is the level of formality expected in some job fields, even at the interview process. My partner interviewed for a position at one of the nation's top companies--a place that's notoriously laid-back and informal. He was told specifically by the company's recruiter NOT to wear a suit and tie. That's rare, however, and reflects the fact that this company is in a very laid-back area of the country, and tends to hire people with 20 years of experience, and not just kids out of college. Even if this was the case, she seriously misfired. Hopefully she's learned her lesson, fit of pique aside.

ETA: I read this pretty quickly and overlooked the fact that she went to Oberlin. This all makes sense now.

No generation is good or bad, but there are particular characteristics. One of the characteristics noted in Millenials is a confidence that they can change the world. Their parents tended to have children later, hovered over them more, and protected them from failure. I've participated in several "working with Milennials" workshops, for professors and one sponsored by Gamma Phi, and some of her comments struck me as spot-on stereotypical of how Millenials have been characterized by those who study generational commonalities. What she views as confidence, we view as "attitude."

Yes, you're correct that there are particular characteristics of today's generation of adolescents and young adults. I believe David Brooks calls it "concerted cultivation," where a lot of energy is spent on children by adults. It will pose challenges as they continue to work with older people--but nothing so earth-shattering as the articles, seminars, and workshops that make money off this so-called divide would have you believe.

So in other words--yes, there is a generation gap. But this young woman is just an entitled brat who went to a college where everyone is a special snowflake!

Programming is a weird field because the typical interview dress code is assumed to be business casual or even casual. Suits aren't really done in most parts of the field, even for interviews. It isn't uncommon to find places who'll cut a candidate for dressing too formally because they assume it means she'll be too straight-laced to work for them. (Which is hella stupid, but whatever.) So yeah, for a normal job interview, this outfit would have been far too casual—in tech . . . eh. It depends on the company. I know of plenty of companies where that would have been fine as an interview outfit (and others where it wouldn't). She gambled and lost. It happens.

Cutting an otherwise stellar candidate because they had a run in their stockings is idiotic—I guess maybe if it was a male interviewer/an all-male office, they might not know that if you put them on in the morning you've got a 50/50 chance of having a run in them by the end of the day? But I suspect that her lateness was the biggest issue—either she didn't actually warn them that she was going to be late, that message was not noted/passed on from whomever she did tell, or when she told them that she was going to be “a few minutes” late, they assumed 5, not 20.

This.

If they had allotted an hour for her interview, and lined up another one for five, then she missed half of the interview time. This could have made them feel that they had wasted the hour, because if they had it down to a routine that took an hour, they had to cut parts of it due to her lateness, and therefore would not have been able to consider her due to lack of information from the interview.

I work with teachers, and our beginning teachers, fresh out of university, often have the same issues with clothing and timelines. I try to gently make "suggestions" but not criticize their clothing, because it's such as personal issue. The wild wigs, strange hair colors and odd-fitting clothing can make them look less than professional, but they see it as " showing their personality." By the end of year three, they tend to be blending more with the rest of the staff.

Yeah, she totally gambled. When my partner interviewed at the company he's at now, which is in the tech field, the recruiter was very clear NOT TO WEAR A SUIT AND TIE to this interview (that was one of the companies where someone wearing that would be considered a "bad fit"). If this was one of those jobs, then the recruiter may have told her. That said, her outfit was kind of eh for architecture and design, too. If someone came dressed like how she was, I wouldn't count it against her.

What I WOULD hold against her, however, was being late. And that's what the issue more than likely was. She learned a painful lesson--made more painful by the fact that when you Google her, this is what will come up.

You would hope she would learn from this, but....

http://oberlinreview.org/8024/opinio...onal/#comments

Nope.

Listen here miss entitled, t-shirts aren't interview appropriate. Bright colors aren't interview appropriate. Heavy makeup isn't interview appropriate.Being late...oh, you best believe that isn't appropriate.

"They would have hired me based on my personality" bull. Her Facebook rant and ability to just ignore people who disagree tell me otherwise. I hope that these "potential employers" hire her for her ability and not because of this fantasy fight against sexism.