Throwing without Knowing?
 

https://www.kappakappagamma.org/kapp...t.aspx?id=3988

Kappa Kappa Gamma will not show hand signs on their website. Your thoughts?

Couldn't agree more. The whole handsign trend among NPC groups is asinine and needs to vanish. Yes there are some NPCs that do have official hand signs that have been around for decades - but let them do that and you do you instead of a poor imitation. It reminds me of groups trying to come up with their version of KD's AOT and the like.

I think it's an overreaction. I think the hand sign pics are cute.

KKG should do what works for KKG.

But I found this article dumb, culturally insensitive (which is humorous considering the purpose of the article), and borderline offensive.

The article is pretty ridiculous, and so are some of the arguments both for and against hand signs in the comments. People are getting extremely bent out of shape, all because their sorority chooses not to post hand signs on social media. In the grand scheme of things, is this really a big deal?

Maybe I'm missing something...

She went into more detail than she needed to. All she needed to say was that these signs aren't anything official, have no basis in tradition or ritual and therefore the national org doesn't want to post pictures of them so as not to muddy the waters.

Yes, she should've said that.

Instead she came across as being unfamiliar with the existence of non-NPC women's GLOs; mocked the GLOs that use hand signs; and announced she's on the late bus for just discovering gang signs (I hope her "expert" is a fictional character she created in an attempt to validate her message).

Also....she went to Pitt. The school is not tucked away in a bucolic small town or suburban enclave. It's in a city setting.

Paraphrasing one of my facebook friends:

KKG didn't care when their members were culturally appropriating hand signs from NPHC organizations, but suddenly they care when they are vaguely associated with white hate groups.

The perception of racism is more important than the actual racism. Okay.

But another layer to this is the reaction of NPC alumnae members... "I've always been uncomfortable with this..." they say. Let's be honest - you're uncomfortable because it doesn't seem refined, and it doesn't seem refined because you know it's something black people do.

And many NPHC organizations have LONG had prohibitions of showing pictures of hand signs in publications and official social media. It has only been very recently that several orgs have relented and embraced hand signs as a benign part of the culture of the orgs.

And by very recently I mean like this year.

Some NPHC NHQs will not use photos with hand signs on official documents or will only use the photos for information on collegiate members or occasionally when showing updates on alumnae/alumni/graduate chapter events.

Yet the NPHC GLOs that frown upon the prevalence of hand signs (and stepping and strolling) often do so without labeling and mocking the overall practice and the GLOs that engage in that practice. We know that gangs do hand signs and physical gestures like Crip Walk that are similar to strolls. I have been at parties with Bloods and Crips doing hand signs and movements alongside NPHC fraternities doing hand signs and strolls. It sometimes is difficult to distinguish the groups in that kind of setting and there can be tension.

Still, these GLO traditions didn't come from gangs. There are BGLOs (NPHC and non-NPHC) and other GLOs that consider calls, strolls, stepping, and hand signs to come from global cultures and traditions, practices learned in the military, and practices created years ago for the GLOs. It is fine if some GLOs don't want those practices adopted for their GLO. Just handle your own business without even appearing to call everyone else out on their use of these practices.

I don't even know what to think about this one. I was going to share it the other day when I read it, but I got busy with work and didn't get around to it yet.

In general, I don't like the use of (most) hand signs for (most) NPC groups. So, in that respect, I agree with the new stance from HQ. I don't think that it has anything to do with being "too refined" as Sen mentioned (although I do think that there is that element among some NPC women). The cultural appropriate aspect is bothersome as well.

For me, I think it boils down to the fact that we didn't do it when I was an active, so it just doesn't seem to be a part of my experience with Kappa. (Get off my lawn!) I also think that the hand signs that I've seen associated with Kappa look stupid because I usually can't figure out what the heck they're trying to show. (Seriously, I usually turn my head sideways a bit to try to figure them out.) There is no consistent Kappa hand sign. I've seen attempts at making letters, keys, stupid owl eyes. If we're going to have a hand sign, let's have ONE.

I also think that the message was delivered in a rather heavy handed and culturally insensitive way, but knowing what I know about how people get dramatic when changes are communicated, I can see that HQ felt that they had to deliver some reason beyond "it's not part of our ritual, so stop." They just didn't think enough about how they were sending the message. Unless it's part of the unanimous agreements, we don't need to bring in any other GLOs when making decisions about our policy.

Honestly, I think they could have just stopped using the photos with the hand signs quietly without making a big PR statement about why. It's not like they use every photo that is submitted. There will still be plenty of shots of people showing the back of their spirit shirts or beach shots, etc. When the actives see the kinds of shots that are being chosen, that's what they'll submit. It's not like these photos are usually particularly creative in composition.

Yes. The article kind of feels like someone hearing something and then going "Oh My Lands, we have to stop this nonsense!" whilst clutching their pearls and swooning without really thinking through it. To be honest, I searched for images of what they referenced and it took some time to find one. Even then, I wouldn't have connected the two.

Either the trend will die out and be replaced by something different (way back when, sororities used to have their own individual whistles that members used to recognize one another, or other hand signals that are no longer used) or it will be accepted and one singular "symbol" will be designated - though still not as part of our ritual.

There's apparently a petition going around to get HQ to reconsider. Oh my. Glad I'm only serving on a local level.

FWIW - I think we *technically* still have a whistle. I couldn't tell you what it is, though.

ETA: I am totally cracking up at all the current actives' comments about throwing away "long-standing" traditions.

Yes. Perfect.

Maybe if these kids would stop taking pictures every moment they breathe they wouldn't have to keep thinking up ridiculous things to do in them.


(Kidding)



(not really)

I think I have the melody to the whistle in one of my vintage songbooks. Let's bring back the whistle!

I'm with you - I can't figure out how to make the letters out of the hand signal used by actives. I know they're things that you generally can't show to the outside world, but our actual ritual is so beautiful and meaningful, why the need to copy/appropriate things from other groups? Because it looks good in photos? Because everyone else is doing it? I'm so glad I'm not 18-22 anymore.

I'd also be interested in seeing how well ritual is taught and used in chapters nowadays. Even 15-20 years ago, I had people in my chapter complain that it was "too outdated."

Actually, I'll amend my first comment. When I first read it, it felt like a "convenient" excuse (to me) to shut down the whole hand symbol trend. Well intentioned or not, those who never liked the trend in the first place (for whatever reason) now had a "reason" to discourage it.

I think amIblue's suggestion of just no longer choosing those images to promote on Kappa's official social media might have been a better way to deal with it.

This is so true. I get very uncomfortable when I see hand signs I know are appropriated from NPHC organizations.

Alpha Phi I'm looking at you.

Oh dear. Now there's a FB "protest."

/swerve (or is it a crash)

about the whistle: did you know that whistles were used in public places, e.g. train stations, when sorority women were traveling to and from school or other places, so that they could seek out other members? I'm serious. My doctor is also a Theta and we discovered that fact by accident, due to the whistle. It's a long silly story.

The whistle really isn't Ritual, despite what some people may claim. How can it be? It's used in public. Whatever.

/end swerve crash

I didn't like when we went to the "branding" tagline (Connect. Impact. Shine) seemingly when it became popular because I thought our 4 word summation of our creed (Love. Labor. Learning. Loyalty.) was great, and it had a history.

I didn't like when Gamma Phis started doing the "Gamma" and "moon" signs, because 1. we actually have hand signs, although they are not for public consumption, and 2. it seemed we were jumping on the NPC handsign bandwagon and 3. I thought the "Gamma" one looked especially stupid. Having said that, I wouldn't presume to tell another NPC what they should or shouldn't do. Some of the signs are quite clever, in that they are easily identifiable (the Zeta, A D Pi and Chi O ones I've seen come to mind.)

That's actually pretty interesting. I didn't think our whistle was ritual (since I don't know it :p), but it's cool how things develop.

With all of the PCNess, it could be coneyed as gang signs!;)

SWTXBelle: you know what I think about Theta hand signs - especially the finger across the mouth one, and the ASL vagina sign. Blechhh.

amIblue, one of these days I'll call you and whistle at you! Panhellenically, of course. Not in a weird way.

Oh dear, I'm doing it again. I'm derailing the thread. Must. Stop. Now.

The hand signs generally don't bother me but I also don't blame a national organization that doesn't want to high light them or would like to encourage their members to use different ways of identifying themselves.

Hand signals are just what people do. Peace signs, making the heart sign out of hands, pointing, Hook 'em horns, etc.

I actually feel like the best strategy would be either to just wait them out, or figure out a way to redirect the energy into something else, by highlighting other types of pictures.

I remember doing the KD sign when I was in college but at the time we were the only group on our campus, now, all the groups do it and I think it's just become a part of the culture, like spirit jersey's and sunset pictures. It will fade over time.

I certainly hope so. This is campus specific, but I just realized what this reminds me of....putting scroll numbers on jackets. Ugggh. One of the fraternities did it because their scroll numbers DO mean something amongst themselves, and then the sororities just started doing it because it was a cool fraternity. I came back and saw all this and was like funk da whaaa???

If you do something, you should be able to explain why you're doing it and where it came from. "I saw it online" is not a suitable answer. I'm fairly sure that groups who do have signs from back in the day have a reason to explain it, much like AZTheta's explanation of her group's whistle above.

The ship has already sailed. The horse is out of the barn.

I just don't see what the big deal is.

Chi Omegas have crossed their arms to make Xs and Horseshoes for years. The hand signs are cute and fun.

Each to his/her own.

From the public Facebook protest group (https://www.facebook.com/events/395733897270902)...which one of my Kappa friends invited me to:

So after all that about hands signs in general they're not even going to stop posting hand signs...just that one sign that they think could maybe be misconstrued.

These are apparently a-ok:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...7597533dae.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...0117b1d626.jpg

I'm not sure what the point of making that post was then. It would have been better handled quietly.

Okay, this is a get off my lawn post, but "the hand sign is an integral part of being a Kappa today"?? Seriously?

This just really hammers home how much this generation thinks it doesn't exist unless you can take a picture of it and put it on the internet for everyone to see.

On the other hand, if there really was a concrete problem with this, then KKG HQ need to say "ZZZ chapter at Basic Bia U were investigated by their local police because the local police saw their picture and thought they were part of a gang." Just saying "we had several chapter instances" and not naming names doesn't really cut it.

Culturally the line when appropriation is homage and when we regard it as theft or insult is interesting to me.

Do you object to NPC groups having hand signs period because recent NPC hand signs come out of the NPHC tradition so are an inappropriate appropriation in all circumstances, or is it more that you feel that the NPC versions of hand signs were invented in a spirit that mocked the original NPHC hand signs?

I think I understand what you are getting at, but it also seems like there's a little damned if you do; damned if you don't aspect to your post. You seem to simultaneously indicated that NPC groups shouldn't appropriate hand signs because the signs are a thing that black people did first, but on the other hand a failure to embrace appropriating the signs is also suspect because it might reflect a reluctance to do something because black people did it first. What NPC members apparently need to do is not throw hand signs but make sure they aren't throwing them for the right reasons, which for some reason amuses me in a medieval scholasticism kind of way.

ETA: I got around to reading the linked article after I read the thread and commented. The context and spirit of your comment is much clearer to me now. That article was a complete unforced error, and your paraphrased facebook comment seems spot on.

I completely agree. Can't imagine expending time and energy on this.

I recently learned that Chi Omega also had a whistle that included a response that only a Chi O would know. Not a part of ritual at all but something that Chi Os did publicly back in the day.

We have a whistle, but I thought it was secret. I really can't whistle, so I guess I would have been left alone at the train station.

I have a feeling that we'll see more Kappa signs than ever before....

Yes, but which one? :p

OK someone (was it kaokite)? shared something that had all the whistles in musical notation form. I can see it in my mind's eye.

I can see a lot of other stuff in my mind's eye too.

Since I'm not that far away removed from school, hand signs were really common at my school. Truth be told, my chapter was pretty obsessed with "throwing what we know". I get why people like it and do it- there is a photo of me and my sister doing our respective sorority hand signs on her bid day- but I also get that it's just a current trend and not part of our ritual.

That being said, did there even need to be a blog post about it at all in the first place? I respect Kappa's decision, but there's an easy solution that doesn't require a blog post ripe for drama- just stop posting them, and if asked, explain. There are PLENTY of photos on social media of Kappas posing without a hand sign. Use those photos instead, and skip the ones without the hand sign. For your official publication, put in the submission guidelines that hand sign photos won't be published. There. Done.

I really want to ask what you're seeing, but that would defeat your goal of not derailing the thread....;)

I think they're called "flashbacks". Or something of the sort. :D :p

There. Now I've done it. I'm channeling you-know-who. Now I'm in Big Trouble.

It's all my fault. DrPhil said it, I believe it, that settles it.

Is it this?
http://www.franbecque.com/wp-content...0/whistles.jpg

My own feeling about the signs is that if you have to think about it, it's too complex. Some of the ones I've seen look almost painful.

Ours is simple, it's just a Xi. Pointer fingers to form the X and a pinky for the I depending on which direction you're taking the picture (from the front, or from behind). It's cute. I like it. I've gotten some cute pictures that way.

To my knowledge, we do not have a whistle.