IU PNM Numbers
 

Does anyone know how many girls signed up for IU recruitment that begins in January? My daughter has signed up and I'm nervous for her. I've read about the bed rush situation and how girls could go through, maximize their options and still not get a bid because there are too few beds vs interested girls. I'd hate for her to get her heart broken. BUT I can't keep her from every disappointment in life and it's her choice. I can only tell her what I read and encourage her to be true to herself, accept anything that might come her way and hope for the best. Just curious if another record number of girls have signed up. Thanks for any info.

IU Panhellenic should release that information. They did last year via twitter.

My daughter said she had heard more than 2100 had registered but that's just rumor I guess until Panhel announces. Thank you, I will watch Twitter.

Yes, there are between 2100 and 2200 women registered at IU. I spoke with an active from one of the chapters yesterday at the football game. She is on the recruitment team for her chapter and she confirmed the information.

:eek:

Is that the biggest in the country now?

it won't be in terms of # of women placed :eek:

No. Alabama is still the biggest. I think we had 2300 this year. Would have to double check for exact number.

And I'm putting it out there right now. If you want to improve your odds of getting a match at the end, try to keep at least 2 chapters on your list that are known to take large pledge classes. Not because they are less selective but because your odds are simply better at a match and because they more closely use RFM as it is intended (quota additions).

And a friendly reminder that IU is like NO OTHER SCHOOL where it comes to rush. Having a great rush with all the most competitive chapters through to the end is not necessarily the best thing. If you get matched, awesome. But there is no guarantee you will get matched. Steel yourself against this possibility right now. Hope for the best but be realistic about your chances. About half the girls going through rush will get placed.

Are there 3 unhoused chapters now? I'm thinking the unhoused chapters are ASA, Dphie, and Theta Phi. How do these chapters decide the size of their pledge classes?

with so many PNM's going bidless, why doesn't IU change from a bed rush to RFM? I guess I just don't understand the whole bed rush thing. All I "see" is disappointment for over 1000 girls who won't be considered because there aren't enough "beds". Do SEC schools have such a high number of bidless women?

Read back through the 80 bazillion posts on this issue. The answer is because that's how they want it.

SEC schools, even with enormous numbers of PNMs that go through recruitment, generally place 85-90+ percent of women that rush. At Ole Miss, fall pledge classes are often more than 100 girls, but we do an outstanding job of placing girls that want to be in a sorority.

Texas A&M (an SEC school) has had a rule (every year before this year) that if you make it to pref night, you'll be guaranteed a bid. So many girls rushed this year that they had to turn girls away, not anywhere near 1/2 of the girls (that's crazy) but some. I'd imagine the numbers this year were similar to what thetalady said, 85-90+% and a lot of snap bids.

That guarantee is a result of NPC's RFM procedures, not an A & M specific one. So that attending pref and signing a bid card is a guarantee that you will get a bid to one of the groups whose pref you attended. Well, unless, of course, one strips or shows up drunk or high to pref...that can get you dropped. but all things being equal, you'll be one someone's bid list no matter what school you attend. No one was "turned away" due to the numbers. Women are released due to grade and other "considerations." And of course, there are always those women who drop out, even on Bid Day, for various reasons. But Indiana is the only school with a bed quota that requires so many women to be released due to lack of space.

And the question I continue to ask regarding bed rush at Indiana is "how do the participating NPC chapters' headquarters/leadership justify this practice for one campus only?" Because it appears to me that all are condoning the practice, since it continues.

No one here can answer that question.

Is there a UA saying that RFM must be used? If not, why can't collegians choose how they want their system to work? Don't get me wrong, I think their system is dated and ill-advised.

Well, they do use RFM. They just have a different way of setting quota. They use RFM for everthing else. It's sort of like starting with the end number and working backwards instead of starting with everyone and working down.

The reasons behind bed quota are very old and really don't apply today. Some of it has to do with housing them. But that's no longer valid. The main problems today are 1) getting past tradition - and this is the hardest one and 2) getting a formula for slowly increasing the new member class sizes so that the actives are not overwhelmed. Consider a house hold 100 members. So right now, in November, the house is full. Suppose they will graduate 35 members. And the house can handle the 100 for chapter meeting, dinner, etc. So jump forward to a NM class the size of one at Alabama (since their pool of PNMs is close in size) and try to cram 120 more people in - today - when they've never had that many before. They don't have procedures to pick who lives in. They ALL live in. They don't have schedules for meals. How can a chapter of 100 or so handle a NM class of 120? Once they are initiated, there is a power shift in the chapter....and the old members don't like that. All sorts of issues that have to be handled on a gradual trend, not over night. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it - they should. It's just they can't change overnight.

I'm always astonished by the logistics of it, and while I don't know how you manage it, I'm glad for this kind of NPC spirit that finds homes for as many women as possible.

And I don't understand why you don't understand! If you need 1 RC for every 10 PNMs when only 200 women go thru, you still need one for every 10 (or whatever) when you have 2000. If you need one tent at each location when you have 5 locations, you still need one tent (maybe bigger) at each location when you have 20. It just takes more people and more resources but those are available because the system is already that large. It's not a mystery. They get 100,000 people plus in Bryant-Denney Stadium at Alabama for a football game rather easily. Getting 2300 women to 16 houses seems fairly simple compared to that.

Hmmm...I was thinking more along the lines of how you get huge groups of PNM's in and out of the house in the allotted time for each round, how many alums have to hide in the kitchen refilling punch bowls, and things like that.

But I guess this relates to what you said upthread about IU...because it was a gradual increase, you adapted as it grew; it's not like PNM's doubled overnight.

Oh for heaven's sake! How many people are backstage at a banquet plating the food, etc??? And they have like 18-20 parties in one round. That's only 100 or so women going thru a house built for 300. Not all the women are on the floor at one time. Not all that difficult. Stop thinking what you are used to. It's not the same.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. I suspect there are other strong reasons for the opposition. Your comments suggest that change needs to come very very gradually. Not a toggle switch type of change. I wonder that this system isn't an intentional anachronism in many ways.

Exactly.

And I think they are. A FEW chapters seem to be taking a FEW members beyond what can live in. Don't expect pledge classes of 100 at IU as the norm, but I think you'll see a handful of quota additions at most chapters (that is utterly unscientific thinking on my part - just conjecture). Some are going to keep a death-grip on the old style and that's their prerogative, but I think many of the chapters will start to see the value in allowing some or all of the seniors to live out. With the importance on MONEY right now as all of us grow nationwide, I think headquarters is going to start being more firm about allowing all available cash flow. Because yes this is about friends, sisterhood, leadership, parties. But it's also big business and there are some big-ass houses that need to be built around the country. And you need to make hay while the sun shines.

Just checked some numbers, for anyone curious. Between 2009 and 2014, average individual quota increased by 5, from 42.5 to 47.7. Average chapter size has increased from 150 to 170. Total number of women receiving bids has increased from 789 to 1002, with big gains coming with new chapters.

Not what I would call a statistically significant change in the % of women who are ultimately matched. Over 6 years, an average of 59% of women who sign up for recruitment receive bids, and an average of 85% of women who attend preference receive bids. Some years better, some worse. No trend up or down.

Interesting stats. As a point of clarification: did the average individual quota rise simply because the 3 new chapters took larger classes compared to the other groups? Does that number include the colony class which would have been significantly larger? In other words, take those three groups fully out of the mix, and how do the quota numbers look over that same time period?

I actually just took the "individual quota" number that each chapter submitted, and divided it by the number of chapters who participated in formal recruitment. So it doesn't account for any quota additions, or colonizations that happened outside of formal recruitment.

In 2009, the smallest reported "individual quota" was 29 and the largest was 55. In 2014, smallest was 37 and the largest was 74.

Not particularly scientific!! The newest chapter isn't included yet, because this will be their first year in FR.

Looking at just the 19 sororities that were there in 2009, from 2009 to 2014 based on total numbers immediately after formal recruitment:
1 stayed exactly the same
3 are smaller in 2014 than 2009
5 have 1-5 members more in 2014 than 2009
4 have 6-20 members more in 2014 than 2009
6 have 21+ members more in 2014 than 2009

Average chapter size for the older 19 chapters went from 149.6 in 2009 to 167.9 in 2014.

A woman in my church is a member of an IU sorority and she indicated that the discussions and opening up towards moving away from Bed Quota are starting although in very small ways. Mostly it looks like chapters are allowing seniors to live out, thus opening up more room but that still is not going to allow for maximum placement in any way. My guess is that, short of continuing expansions to help pick up the slack this is going to be a slow process.

I know the numbers at Indiana and the bed quota is not a favorable situation. But, with a deferred recruitment, many women are released due to grades. I think that information should be included when mentioning that only 59% of women who signed up for recruitment receive a bid to join a chapter. The women that sign up for recruitment are responsible for making the grade requirements, the releases that happen due to grades are to be expected.

Just out of curiosity, are the grade requirements more stringent at Indiana than at other universities?

OK...I am going to try to answers all of the questions I have seen so far. Wish me luck, as I will try not to overlook anything.

1. There are three unhoused chapters. There is NO campus total (another oddity at IU). You have chapters who come back in the fall with 130 women and chapters who come back with 180 women in the fall. There in lies the average total of 157. The three unhoused chapters decide their own quota, a member of one of those groups told me that they make quota to keep them at average chapter size which what their national organization requires since there is no campus total. Sigma Kappa will re-colonize its Tau chapter in Jan. of 2016 and it will be the 23 NPC chapter on campus.

2. The placement rate at IU includes those women who were dropped for grades, so if you take those women out the placement rate jumps to the low 70s, still not great, but much higher than half. Back in 2009, there were only 19 chapters on campus. Now there are 22. Also, in that year, several of the chapters took smaller pledge classes due to a large number taken the year before.

3. The IU Panhellenic requires a 2.6 to go through recruitment, however I had heard that it was being raised to 2.7. Some chapters require a 3.0 or close to it for membership without being a "connected" or "VIP" PNM. The year I went through, a top chapter was on academic probation with their national org. and could not bid anyone less than 3.0. They were very up front about it, thankfully.

4. More chapters are easing their senior live-in requirement. An older established chapter allowed seniors the option to live out for next year and only 8 women chose to do so.

5. I do not understand why the national organizations have not stepped in because of the missing revenue alone. A chapter took 35 last year, we figured quota at 74 if IU used quota-total. So therefore one chapter alone missed out on almost 40 X the new members fees, initiation fees, and future alumnae donations. Not chump change.

I am sure I missed something, but hopefully this answers a few of the questions in the thread so far.

Because having the chapter go under due to going against campus norms would result in even more missing revenue. Plus, according to most of the IU posters here, retention is better than at other similar schools. You don't need as large of pledge classes if your retention for 2011's pledge class is 80% as opposed to Big Honkin U who only retained 60% of the same year's class. Perhaps this is a case of that which is the most difficult to attain is more valued.

Obvi this is a very rosy view. :)

But as Titchou said this is not something that can happen overnight. If ythey started tomorrow to make steps to a full quota/total system, I'd say a 2020 complete implementation date would be optimistic.

In reply to the question regarding Indiana's grade requirements, they do not appear to be any stricter then other universities. I appreciate knowing that placement jumps to 71% when women released due to academics is placed into the information.

IndianaSigKap- what percent of women drop out of recruitment because they do not like the options of chapters that they are invited back to?

From the IU recruitment page:

http://iupharecruitment.com/parents.html

2.8 GPA minimum or higher

I do not know the average GPA at Indiana. I know that law school admissions put in a tremendous effort to compare a 3.0 at School A to a 3.5 at School B.

Maman says another plus for deferred recruitment to put the PNMs on a level playing field for grades.

From the page cited above:

"2014
• 1,905 women registered
• 1,319 women participated in bid matching
• 1,002 received bids
• 317 women not matched in process
2013
• 1,735 women registered
• 1,160 participated in bid matching
• 1,025 received bids
• 146 women not matched in process
2012
• 1,720 women registered
• 1,086 participated in bid matching
• 890 received bids
• 252 women were not matched throughout the process"

Thank you Titchou for your thoughtful post. Expansion is not that simple. It is not the same as Thanksgiving dinner where you can always squeeze in a few more people.

Finally. Hallelujah! I don't know any sister, cousin, or friend of a friend going through recruitment at Indiana this year.

Keep in mind that these women register for recruitment in the fall BEFORE they have grades. Recruitment is after grades come out. So many who initially signed up probably wouldn't if they had to wait till they have grades to register.

I wonder how many young women who really want to join a sorority don't even apply to IU because of this unusual recruitment situation. It sounds like so many qualified and wonderful young women are excluded from sorority life.

Maybe out of state students have enough knowledge about the Greek system to make this type of informed decision, but I don't imagine a ton of in state girls think about this when deciding to go to IU. The greek system is only about 23% of the student body.

^^^not enough for the IU administration to force them into changing it, obviously. And there's also the possibility that those aren't the students IU wants, anyway.

Problem is, they've just about run out of sororities.