Bad News
 

I found this on CNN today. it is bad news about a fraternity that certainly did not represent the Greek System very well. I was kind of upset about this! it's like making light of lynching or the holocaust. Even if people joke about this with friends, it's certainly not something I think should ever be published!
http://fyi.cnn.com/2001/fyi/teachers...ape/index.html

I don't know how to make it into a hyperlink, so sorry if you have to cut and paste it into your browser!

Hi SuperXO, I am not sure if that was the link you wanted the story that I just read off that link had to do with Date rape. I think it's just aweful though for all three categories, cause neither three are funny matters. The fact that any greek org would publsih a newletter of such, is truly sad, and definelty puts all greeks in a bad light
http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif It makes me mad http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif that there are good greek orgs that do good on an everyday basis, and many of those never get any credit for the good they do, but as soon as one groups slips, everyone knows and it's all over, it's sad we all work so hard to be pushed right back to the beginning because of the misdeeds of Others!
DGPhoney~

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"Simply the Best, Delta Gamma Pi"
http://everythingblack.websitenow.com/citron

Yeah, that was the link I meant! It's horrible that people would want to publish "techniques for date raping" in the first place and I was comparing it to the other events because making light of rape is hurtful to many people just like trying to say the holocaust never happened or making a joke out of lynching. I hope that org gets a good lesson!

And yeah, it's not like we need anymore bad press!

STOP! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

Before everyone goes off the deep end, take a deep breathe, think, and get some facts.

Here are two links that give you the two pages of the actual newsletter: http://www.thedartmouth.com/floater....20010418010002
http://www.thedartmouth.com/floater....20010418010003

Here is a link that covers all the articles of the incident . . .
http://www.thedartmouth.com/search.p...psi-sex-papers

From what I have read . . . as a stand alone I would say wow I can't beleive they printed or think that . . .

But in context as a newsletter meant to be funny: it is funny. And if we heard some stand up comedians saying the same stuff, a lot of us would laugh!

They probably have done something like that every year and just got caught this year. Probably by someone with a motive to hurt them.

If you are interested in facts . . . please read and make up your own mind.


[This message has been edited by James (edited May 08, 2001).]

*sigh*...reading the 2nd link that James provided is especially disheartening...

Not only that...but many non-Greeks immediately associate that Zeta Psi chapter's actions with all the other fraternities...here's the "proof"... http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....d=200104250206

Yet again Greek Life is getting a horrible rep just from one chapter's absolutely STUPID, ARROGANT, SEXIST, and plain A$$HOLE actions.

[This message has been edited by Theta-cutie (edited May 08, 2001).]

Alright, now I'm absolutely steamed. Take a look at this: http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....d=200104240202

Thanks a lot Zeta Psi chapter of Dartmouth...thanks again for allowing non-Greeks to add more evidence that the "Greek system should be abolished." http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

Think before you act, everyone. All of America is watching... If we don't watch out, fraternities and sororities might be extinct years from now. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif

Seems like almost everytime you hear of a Fraternity doing something stupid, its a local one. I've never heard of Zeta Psi before

Hey UNFSigmaChi,

Zeta Psi is an International Fraternity. I heard that they have many chapters in Canada and are slowly but surely expanding in the U.S.

I wish that they were local...

here's the link to their international website... www.zetapsi.org

And it looks like they were in quite a bit of trouble a few years ago at Dartmouth, too... http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....d=200104200101


[This message has been edited by Theta-cutie (edited May 08, 2001).]

Here's more info about Zeta Psi, taken from their international website...

"In numbers we are not large. With approximately 50 chapters and 20,000 members worldwide, Zeta Psi pales in comparison to the larger members of the National Interfraternity Conference. Despite our rich history extending back to 1847, the majority of our chapters have fewer than 50 members, and often less than 30. With a few exceptions, most of us consider our small numbers to be a tremendous asset, both at the chapter and international levels. Even our larger chapters, like the Phi Lambda at the University of Washington, hold in high esteem the importance of closely-knit, universal friendships that our smaller chapters, by their nature, provide.

"As an international organization, we emphasize academics. While individual chapters vary widely in their academic success, we strive to exist in circles of academic excellence. Our chapters are generally found at campuses of the highest academic repute -- we have sponsored chapters at all of the Ivy League schools. We do not encourage the exclusion of members based on academic performance, but our constitution does recommend that academic standing play a role in member selection. More importantly, we, the alumni, emphasize that the undergraduates should work hard to accomplish their primary goal."

As far as National rhetoric goes . . . that is more honest than most of ours . . .

More info about the uses of the Sigma Report for that Zeta Psi chapter...
http://www.thedartmouth.com/article....d=200104190201

This is making me madder and madder...at least I'm not so bored now at work, though...

He says he depledged . . . which would mean that he was never initiated . . . but then he said he was a brother for two terms . .. which would require resignation with reason, something that is rarely done . . .

The paper is obviously a humorous parody, albeit on the most basic, almost "toilet humour" variety, but is no less the reflection of what many groups of males would being saying among themselves in a humorous social situation.

Although most of us would be mortified if some people overheard some of our conversations. This may very well apply to both genders.

Although I feel as if the media always portrays Greeks in a negative light, I cannot say it's untrue. Granted, they always show the hazing or dumb things like this incident, but if we didn't have this type of behavior welcomed by chapters and individual organizations it wouldn't be in the media for all to see and judge us.
I also think it varies campus to campus. I came from a party school and the Greeks always feel as if the administration and entire school is unsupportive, but if we were to actullay look at what we do and discover that there are reasons for the discontent then maybe we could do something about the lack of support/funds...BUT That means change and we are not willing to do it!
I wish EVERY individual in the system would understand that what you do as ONE person could be reflected on the ENTIRE system! But it's too bad we cannot see into the future during recruitment in order to reject the bad seeds!

[This message has been edited by ecukd (edited May 08, 2001).]

Okay...they HAD a chapter at Brown. When they wanted to admit women, Nationals said no, so they became a local and changed their name.

While the Dartmouth Greek system as we know it slowly going by the wayside, it's despicable that these guys make something like this accessible to the public when they're under the scrutiny they are. Gross.



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LOL, I have not seen that expression used in a long time . . . but it sums the situation up pretty well.

As wll as SNAFU for Greeks.

Although I definitely think that whole newsletter is in bad taste, I don't think it's something for all the people at Dartmouth to get up in arms about. It's just them joking around. Yeah, it was vulgar but it wasn't serious. I have a feeling that if it hadn't of happened at an Ivy League school people wouldn't have cared as much.

We have a chapter of Zeta Psi at our university, and they're really nice guys. Because one group does something foolish does not mean condemnation of their entire national organization. Unfortunately, Dartmouth seems to have problems that run far deeper than we know.

As James said, if we could overhear the conversations that go on each day in the lives of folks, this might seem pretty tame. All in all, I must say it's, as someone else so eloquently said, GROSS!

It's okay to talk about these things, because we do after all, have freedom of speech. But publishing it is a different matter and a lot more serious, IMO. They have to know they could be affecting a lot more people and run the risk of exposure. Not only were they dumb, but they were tasteless and foolish.

Of course, this is not a judgement (from me anyway) on the fraternity as a whole, or even all the brothers in that chapter. But,it sure does prove what we always say about representing the entire Greek System every time you do something foolish.

[This message has been edited by SuperXO (edited May 09, 2001).]

Here's a link to the pro-Greek Dartmouth Review regarding this situation.
http://www.dartreview.com/issues/5.7.01/

Apparently the ex-brother who wrote the column in theta-cutie's link applied to be editor of this report, and didn't get the position. He depledged shortly after.

It's important to keep in mind two things about this story:[list=1][*]A Brother of Zeta Psi was not involved[*]There was no rape[/list=a]

The person accused was not a Brother, they were both at a party thrown by Zeta Psi. And, most importantly, she latter admitted to having made the accusation up, after Police found no evidence to support the claim.

Do not be too harsh on the guys from Dartmouth. They screwed up. We all do from time to time. But, as we all know, Greeks are already under a microscope.

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Spencer Rupert
<A HREF="http://"http://www.zetapsi.org"" TARGET=_blank>Zeta Psi Fraternity</A>
<A HREF="http://"http://www.uwzetapsi.com"" TARGET=_blank>Alpha Theta Chapter</A>

One bad apple spoils the whole bunch?

Hard to say. Well to try to speak for the brothers at the dartmouth chapter, i am the editor of my chapter's newsletter (the Zulu) and the whole intent of the newsletter is fot brothers eyes only, how these copies got printed or out of the hands of the chapter, i can't say (cause i don't know) and i can't really say for sure if they are factual or not, but from my opinon (take it for what you will) it does seem to be a mock issue intent on making fun of the actives, not to be discriminating in any sort of way. Sure it may have been smarter for the brothers to not mention any of the ladies names or even bring up the subject of date rape (huge faux pas) but you have to look at the fact they probablly didn't expect the public to get thier hands on it, again i'm not making excuses for them at all. Punishment must be made for their actions, they must have been smarter with what they did. I know my university paper makes a mock issue at the end of every year for the students, making fun of the dean and anything else, but they also try to do it in an intellegent and more tactfull way. I can say from what i know of the gentlemen that these men can prove to be quite inetellegent, because of the paper i read that they wrote to the university about a year or more ago, concerning the universitiy's intent to make all greek organizations go co-ed, as soon as i can trak the article down i will post it for you all to see. All i ask from you all is to take all you read from this with a grain of salt, wait till ALL the facts come to light before passing a true judgement.

The Zeta Psi fraternity of North America has a long tradition of excellence, we consider ourselves to be the gentlemans fraternity, the ivy league fraternity, because for a time we were at every ivy league school. We are a small fraternity right now, but this is because we wish to be part of universities that we feel display the qualities that we deem worthy of Zeta Psi, sounds elitist eh? Well to me it says we strive for execellence. We have been around since 1847, one of the oldest greek organizations still in exsistance, we were the first fraternity to go national in 1870 when we expanded our brotherhood to berkley, and then another first was we were the FIRST international fraternity when we expanded in to Canada in 1879 at the unversity of toronto. So i leave you with this thought, please don't judge us all for something very dumb that a few brothers at one of our chapters may have done, we have a long line of tradition and excellence, heck we've been around for over 150 years, we had to have done someting right. Please wait till you hear it all, before you bash the orgainization i love.

Thank you http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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Edgar A. Hartling
Zulu and Constitution Contact
Zeta Psi Fraternity of North America - Alpha Mu Chapter
Dalhousie University
Halifax, Nova Scotia

I'm sorry, fella, but date rape is a HUGE issue in this country and around the world. There is no humor in it, and I don't care how long your organization has been around. I don't believe for one minute that members at Dartmouth have raped, too.

I wouldn't touch the topic of date rape with a ten foot poll . . . its too emotional and not logical, and its become to political also. However, The chapter at Dartmouth didn't Date rape . . . so why are they being punished?

Because, just like pledgetrainer said, they made a joke out of it. By doing so, they are discrediting the seriousness of the crime and the trauma of all victims.

Like I said before, it's not okay to make a joke out of the holocaust or lynching of blacks...those are both horrible crimes that should be taken serisouly. Why would it ever be okay to make a joke out of the same kind of hate crime towards women? They may not date rape, but that doesn't mean they should feel good about themselves!

Thanks for that comment. I was so upset with his answer that I couldn't post anything to him. I do believe that most men think that rape is non-existent, so it just keeps going on and on. Attitudes like the ones displayed by this group of men just keep the problem out there, and it IS REAL!

I agree! Even if people think the actual crime is serious, they don't treat discussion of it seriously, or treat the victims like they would treat victims of race crimes or other senseless violence.

I wonder if men feel like I do when I imagine it happening to me and then to have the added injustice of the raper laughing at me and getting high fives from his buddies for his "conquest." it makes me feel like crying and it hasn't even happened to me! but, it has happened to others and just like we think the Nazis are monsters for killing Jews and congratualting themsleves on it, we should think any men (or women) are monsters that laugh about rape or portray it in a humorous way (Okay, I'll stop beating the holocaust dead-horse!)

Excuse me if I may post my opinion on this situation... I for one think that Zeta Psi has committed no crime whatsover and doesn't deserve to be thrown off for a newsletter! Ok, maybe I'm not sensitive to every issue out there, but I do recall that I live in America, and if I have to tolerate white supremacists holding rallies and marching anytime they damn please, then I think a satirical newsletter that was only printed for the privacy of the brotherhood does not warrant disciplinary action. I think it's sloppy and stupid that it got out and was sent to the press, but at Rutgers we have a weekly newspaper called "The Medium" It's filled with nothing but porn, attacks against the university president, fictious articles, etc. The Zetemouth is definitely harsh and nobody should make fun of date rape, but once again I still have my first amendment right and the last time I checked Dartmouth was still part of this country.

Thank you

(P.S. I hope I did not offend anyone with my comments, that was not my intention at all. If I did, I'm going to apologize right now, later....)

I definitely have to agree with RUgreek. I think that there are far worse things that are going on in our country. I am not saying that i agree with the newsletter but it was made for the purpose of humor and for brotehrs only. The paper was not made for the whole college to see it. I bet that there are other organizations not meaning greeks that actually care out the crime. so before we start to bash Zeta Psi lets look at the whole perspective.

BronxZete and RUGreek, I agree with both of you. The "date rape" reference was apparently something along the lines of "In the next issue: Joe Shmo's date rape techniques" and the reason the bros considered this humorous was because Joe Shmo was shy and meek around women. It would be similar to saying "In this issue, Roseanne Barr's tips for singing the Star Spangled Banner" or "Marlon Brando's weight loss tips."

I agree date rape is an issue so sensitive that it shouldn't be brought up, but more than some men being crude, I question the mental state of the chick who dug through the garbage to find a copy of the paper. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

heres what i heard b/c theis was brought up on the show Politically Incorrect. It was actually Date Rape Awareness Week at Dartmouth and the paper was suppose to be saying how stupid date rape is in a mocking way. The frat meant no offense by it and it wasnt even suppose to leave the house. The girls names who are listed on a different page have nothing to do with the date rape thing. They just have list of what guy has done what girl. Gross, yes, but come on alot of frats/ and non greeks have their list of who does who. Now some chick who was wronged by the frat got hold of it and brought it to peoples attention. Should they be thrown off. No. A warning, yeah. Just like we dont want non greeks judging us because of something one chapter does, we shouldnt judge that chapter until we get all the facts.

Just another way to show how times have truly changed I suppose, I saw this article on the dke website. Supposedly this is some of the pranks and humor that was going at Dartmouth "back in the day." I don't know about you guys, but I thought it was more hilarious than shocking to read about.
http://dke.org/wsjanimal.html

Boy I can't wait until "the machine" starts making headlines again at Dartmouth. Does anyone else know if theta nu epsilon is still active at your school?

I found the TNE website last summer I think, and out of curiosity called the number given. I think one guy is running the operation. He told me they restarted a citywide chapter in Chicago, and asked if I'd be interested in restarting one at Rose/ISU. The details are a bit hazy, it's been about 9-10 months, but i think that's the jist of it. It was an interesting coversation to say the least!

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Hey Corbin,

Wow, that's pretty cool you actually were able to get in touch with them... heh, they are still trying to get societies started again, damn. I don't know what their future is gonna be, but I think there might be an increase in underground organizations.

Thanks for the info, later!

- RUgreek

Wow, Skulls and Keys. Haven't herd from them in a while. I was also curios about them and called the number. Nobody answered. If I remmemberd my history correctly, didn't they had a really bad reputation. Isn't there also other underground society such as the Ivy Club.

I don't really know too much about the history of the Ivy Club, as far as I can tell the first one still exists at Princeton and all they seem to be is the classic eating club. My fraternity was originally the Ivy Club before it joined together to become a fraternity. If anyone knows more about them, I'd be interested in hearing about it as well....

I'm a brother of zeta psi here in canada, in fact i'm from the very same chapter as ed...only he's a lil older than me.

no one's perfect, everyone makes a joke at someone else's expense sometime in their life. you've done it pledge trainer, theta cutie cas too. some are very bad, and ill-timed.

everyone's blown this way out of proportion, i believe the article said something about a drunk girl fucking some guy at a party, IT WASN"T EVEN A ZETE...she then told everyone that SHE LIED, it NEVER happened...and the only thing i heard about date rape was a lil aside in the paper about next week? now i only have what has been shown to me to go on, but i can't see where the dartmouth guys went wrong, no date rape, no zete involved, hmmm, then why are ppl upset? cuz of a bad joke?
wow you guys down there are touchy, maybe that's why u need guns all the time.
if i've offended any zetes, u can come get me in washinton, i'll be at convention...to everyone who matters to me i'll be around. in TKPhi Jonesy.
if anyone knows what the above means u might see why i wrote what i did. (oh and if some of this don't make sense, it's 3 in the morning, i'm going to bed)

I think people are looking too far into this whole zetemouth paper. The adminstrators at Dartmouth are itching for the very slightest screw up as an excuse to disenfranchise each greek organization at the school. I think we've all realized that everything fraternities do is not going to be treated as a joke or accepted as harmless fun. People like to believe that things these groups use to get away with back many years ago will still be the norm. Unfortunately, this is not the case and all greeks are a hot topic in the media. Just remember the real reasons why you joined your organizations and then you'll realize that anything they print doesn't change what you are. On a separate note, I hope zeta psi does not give up fighting the conservative adminstration at their school. I think what they did was right, but I do believe they got the book thrown at them. Never give up fighting, you have the right to say whatever you want!