Black Friday and the War on Thanksgiving
 

This is getting out of hand.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/59842...ushpmg00000063

It's not a "war" if two parties won't both engage.

If people didn't shop on Thanksgiving, the stores wouldn't be open - and I would guess that a fair portion of those shopping are "low wage workers" themselves. (That little attempt to make this a class war doesn't quite work, but they tried. Good try, HuffPost.)

Not only that, maybe spending a day with family and gorging isn't everyone's idea of fun or something that contributes to everyone's physical or mental health. I worked the last 3 Thanksgivings. I didn't mind in the least. Before we work ourselves into an outrage, maybe we should consider if for many people, there is anything to be outraged about.

Yeah not everyone cares about Thanksgiving just like not everyone goes shopping for the holidays (I don't exchange holiday gifts and don't shop during holidays therefore Black Friday just means I am Black on a Friday).

If the real topic is employees being forced to work on Thanksgiving, if Thanksgiving is that important to some of the employees then they will figure out how to make it work (no pun). If this is used as an example of capitalism's employee exploitation of labor then this is a small sign of a more interesting issue. If this used as an example of erasing the traditional American family then LOL and "give me a break".

I think you and I talked about this last year on FB and I totally agree.

As much as I'm a Thanksgiving fan and hate seeing it swallowed up in Christmas, I agree too.

My significant other & I don’t exchange gifts between ourselves or family members, however we do participate in a gift drive through a local radio station where you “adopt” children and are given clothing sizes and a “wish list” (a secular version of the Salvation Army Angel Tree, basically), and last year we did do some crazy late-night Black Friday shopping to try to get some deals on clothes and toys for our list kids. Well, okay, we might have also bought some stuff for ourselves…who can resist a $9.99 Crock Pot? :p


I’m not really a family holiday person in general, so I have to admit, if there are great sales, I’m definitely interested in going out shopping at 6PM on Thanksgiving rather than waiting until the middle of the night. I’m curious to see what Kohl’s is going to do.

The problem comes when people are forced to work on the holiday when they don't want to. Yes, I know people who experienced this last year, because they were the low man on the totem pole, so they had to "pay their dues" by working the holiday. It wouldn't have been a problem if they knew in advance that the store would be open that day, but in the case of one of my friends, he found out by reading online that their store would be open, and he found out a few days later that he'd have to be there when the place opened on Thanksgiving night.

I guess I don't really see the point of Black Friday anymore? Many reports say that it no longer helps the economy the way that it used to, more and more sales are lasting throughput the holiday weekend, and online shopping is more popular than ever. When will this become just like every other shopping day of the year?

The real annoyance is with Christmas taking over the last 4 months of the year. Why are there Christmas decorations up in the mail in September?! That may be a different discussion for a different thread, though :p

I am a Supervisor at Kohl's. I have not heard for sure but more than likely we will open at the same time as other major retailers. I just point blank tell my Store Manager that I am available no earlier than noon on the Friday after Thanksgiving. The working overnight shifts (& if you work Thanksgiving night it is a 10-12 hr overnight) are usually picked up my the younger folk! I am busy on Thanksgiving with my 4 kids & have put in my time with those crazy shifts! We will be open like 30 hours in a row so lots of shift coverage will be needed.

I am in the camp of not caring about Holidays apart from Christmas. My holiday celebrations include my husband,kids, and parents. And it's not like getting six people that live 3mi apart is special. Mainly, it's fun to cook a big meal, but I can do that whenever.

At least in my family Thanksgiving is a bigger deal than Christmas. Mainly because my sibblings and I are grown, and realistically if I want and need something I get it in advance of Christmas.

I think there is clearly a need being met in order for stores to be open part or all of Thanksgiving day. I know they wouldn't continue to be open if they weren't feeding their bottom line.

I think for some being with your family is nice but I know for me personally, I can only spend a fixed amount of time with them before I just need to get away. Thankfully though we all live within 3 miles of each other so I don't have to quite go to the store to escape. ;)

I wish that people were less worried about retail workers having to work at 6pm on Thanksgiving and more worried about retail workers not getting health benefits, paid time off, steady schedules, or a fair wage.

^^Yep.

Corporations are asking (by asking I mean ordering them or they'll get fired) their workers to do more and more with less and less. I'm not saying it's 12 year old children working in the coal mines, but if your average customer had any idea what was expected of those smiling people checking them out, they'd faint.

Not to mention, there are many other employees who have to work on Thanksgiving. I don’t mean essential functions like police, firefighters, emergency rooms, etc, but places like hotels, restaurants, airports. Nobody gets in a tizzy because Golden Corral is open all day.

I've worked in one of the worst arenas of Black Friday: an outlet mall. I have pretty strong feelings on the subject, but I won't get into that.

What I will touch on is that there is nothing black about Black Friday anymore. Every retailer I've worked for never pulled themselves out of the red that weekend. Some experienced even more loss.

The sales in the outlets now are most likely better than what they will be Black Friday (at least that has been the trend for the past few years). They just market differently and reprice stickers to make you think you're getting a better deal during "Midnight Madness". Don't fall for it! (Usually electronics are excluded from this.)

This was on my FB feed.

https://www.facebook.com/boycottblac...002230/?type=1

Can someone explain to me how having to get up at the butt crack of dawn to be at work at 7 am is so much better than having to work the night before? I mean, people are going to be exhausted from the holiday and/or have to spend less time with their families to get home and to bed at a reasonable hour.

I think it is way better to be able to go to bed at 10 or 11 pm, get up at 5:30 or 6 and be at work at 7 than it would be to leave your family's Thanksgiving dinner to be at work at 6 pm. Also, you could still have a couple beers or glasses of wine if you're not working until the next morning. If you're working that night, having any alcohol would be risky.

Yes, there are some service areas where you know that you'll have to work holidays. I don't think retail should be one of them.

YES. Especially since retail workers will be entering the period when they usually can get no time off, have to work weekends and extended hours, and deal with holiday-stressed shoppers.

I work in Sports Television, so I can't remember when I DON'T work on a holiday!
But I knew that going in to this line of work ...

Capitalism at its finest.

Having worked retail all through HS and undergrad, I can attest that this time of year is miserable. Long hours, shitty customers, holiday music on a loop... It's bad stuff.

I'll never shop or support a black friday.. nope. Don't care what the doorbusters are.

After I worked my first (and only) Black Friday, I promised myself I'd never put myself through that again.

Years ago, I worked in the pharmacy at Wal-Mart, and because the pharmacy is closed on Black Friday, we weren't required to work. Then my manager came at me with these big, sad puppy-dog eyes, saying that they were going to be short-staffed that day. I caved and agreed to work at 4 or 5am. I can't remember the time exactly - all I know is it was too damn early to deal with all the BS I had to deal with.

I was pushed, shoved, and called a "dumb broad" when I didn't know where a toy was (that we only carried in the store that ONE day). No one listened when I tried to organize the check-out lines, and people looked at me like I was worthless. I've never been so disrespected and so disgusted with people before. It was awful.

Maybe that's why Christmas is my least favorite holiday… because it seems to be the time of year when many people are so mean to each other, all because there's a sweater on sale.

No thanks!

This. I worked a Black Friday two years ago where I was due in at 11 PM or 12 AM, to stay through 8 AM. This required my husband and I driving back from Thanksgiving dinner around 7:30 PM from his family (1.5 hours from home), me changing clothes, and then headed to work. Your body clock gets thrown off, people are just rude, and the deals aren't even that great.

Maybe it's just the way my body functions, but I'd much rather sleep at a semi-normalish hour (the late PM hours) and get up crazy early (3 AM or 4) in order to be at work by 6 or 7 AM. Particularly if my schedule is going to be hell for the next few weeks (and in retail, it is always hell in December). I'd rather have a day with a closer to my natural circadian rhythm than pull an all-nighter and still work a 40 hour weekend.

My favorite was the folks who came in still drunk/high from the night before who vomited on our floor. Every.single.year. Thank God for temp workers, right?

And then, of course, the company, in all of its wisdom, would roll out Black Friday promotions which would tie an employee up with a customer who opted in for about 15 minutes.

It's obvious that many of the decisions which make Black Friday so effing miserable for all involved are made by individuals who haven't ever tried to run just one store.. it's a very different skillset than running a region or country full of stores and those executives really could learn a lot.

Companies like Wal-Mart.. well really, just Wal-Mart specifically, allow really dangerous scenes to be created by these doorbusters. These sales have major quality of life implications for employees, and in the end, with all of the loss leaders they sell on Black Friday, it's not even all that profitable.

One might even argue it's degrading to the customers, most of whom are low wage earners to be herded into the store, forced into dangerous, sometimes violent confrontations with other customers and made to miss quality family time because this is the only day they can afford to shop on.

Not aimed at you but this reminded me of another gripe I have. At each job I've had up to this point, I was always automatically expected to work the holidays to free up the people "who have families." It is irritating to no end to hear, "Well, she should get the time off because she has a family." Ummmm what am I, a vagabond? I may not have kids but I do have a family and lots of loved ones who I will miss and will miss me if I am not home for the holiday, too. (For the record, I totally understand why priority would be given to people with small children. My issue is with the insinuation that me not having children makes my personal time less valuable.)

/rant

Thank you!

I've been told at many jobs, "Well, you have to understand.. Cindy needs the time off because she has 2 kids." Um, ok.. but I don't see why her time with her family is any more valuable than my time with my family.

I don't understand why priority would be given to someone with small children. Or, women with families versus men with families.

Priority should be set based on work related criteria. Such as seniority, for one.

I don't understand, either. Unfortunately, this is pretty common...


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101172788

http://nymag.com/thecut/2013/06/chil...lance-too.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-mothers.html

YES YES YES.

Well, for one, but that is only a start. I would add "a healthy dose of common sense and fairness."

In my (single, childless) 20s I worked at a job where either my co-worker or I had to be at work any time the department was open. The department closed at noon Christmas Eve and all day Christmas but we were expected back 8am 12/26. Co-worker had seniority over me, and also had 3 kids. No matter what day of the week Christmas fell on, she would request off Dec 22-29. Every. Damn. Year.

Her entire extended family lived in the town where we worked. My entire family was 15 hours away, with no direct flight. So, with only 1.5 days off it was virtually impossible.

I proposed a deal to her where one of us could take the week leading up to Christmas Day and the other would take the week after. We would each get a full week PLUS the 1.5 days off. She could choose first, since she had seniority. Nope. *whiney voice, head cocked sideways* "Oh my kids need me at the holidays."

Two years of that and I got a new job.

I should be punished because I know how to prevent that sort of thing?

Ha! I think you just named my entire family! LOL My mother was a nurse on the graveyard shift for the Sheriff's department, my dad was a supervisor at the airport, my sister was a chef at a high-end restaurant and I am in the fire service. We always have to coordinate out family get-togethers and it's not unusual to celebrate a holiday or occasion the day before or the day after....or even a few days after.


Oh man, you're speaking my language right now. I received promotion to Fire Captain earlier this year. There are only 4 FCs and I am, of course, the least senior. The other FCs got to bid for all of the holidays off and I am the one that gets stuck for every holiday this year.

I have to work Thanksgiving and the day after (Friday). I can't see my family the day before Thanksgiving (Wednesday) because I am being redirected to cover for another Captain who rquested the day off. So, I have to work three days in a row (Wed-Thurs-Fri) which is 72 hours straight over Thanksgiving.

Now I also learn that another Captain has requested the Tuesday before Thanksgiving off. The department can't force me to work as the policy says that they can only force me for 72 hours max. So, the second lowest senior Captain will have to be forced in - making HIM work his regular Sun-Mon shift plus Tues, for 72 hours straight. I sure hope HE didn't have any Tuesday travel plans for Thanksgiving!

Maybe Christmas will be better? I am regularly scheduled work on Thursdays and Fridays. Let's look at the schedule. Darn - Christmas falls on Thursday this year; so, I have to work Christmas and the day after. No worries, I can see my family on Christmas Eve, right? Nope! That same Captain from before has also requested Christmas Eve off and I am the one who is being redirected to cover Wednesday, 12/24. Soooo.....I get to work another 72-hours straight over the top of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

New Years? That's also my regular day (Thursday); BUT, I got it off! I don't know why they didn't schedule me; but, my guess is that the Chief was trying to throw me a bone after making me work Christmas Eve and Christmas Day.

Awkward! LOL :p

My heart goes out to all of you who have to work strange hours or forced hours on the days you would rather be with your families. I chose this life and career and I accept the consequences of that decision. Though, for some, the choice to work in retail wasn't as easy and finding another job isn't as cut and dry as it sounds.

I loved working those days when I was in corporate America...nobody in the office, nothing to do, long lunch, maybe an afternoon workout...

Of course, I have no kids and my family was local and I'm a Jew, so I'm pretty much the perfect storm of not needing Christmastime off.

Well, Thanksgiving traditions don't stop just because I have to work. I bring to work freshly-baked Pillsbury orange cinnamon rolls, a 20+ year Thanksgiving morning tradition. When I didn't have to work Thanksgiving morning, the cinnamon rolls would be partnered with mimosas (not happening, of course). Since it'll be a slow news day for NFL -- just games + Game Day Morning -- we'll be watching the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade also.

This. Can't tell you how many times I had been told, "Well just got get a different career if you don't like it." Sure, let me snap my fingers.

You have to be a certain kind of person with a certain kind of personality to LOVE working in retail. I am not that person. But you know, bills.

It took me 5 years to get out, but I'm out. Finally.