Apparently It Does Happen
 

I met a girl yesterday who had a shirt from XYZ on, so I asked her about it and we're talking and she mentions she's not a member anymore. So I ask why she dropped. She was in another sorority at PrivateU that wasn't at the StateU she transfered to. So not knowing the rules she went through recruitment at StateU, got initiated and was active for over a semester before someone from her old school found out and told XYZ at StateU.

She has since lost her membership in both orgs (rightfully so) .

:eek:

And she's still wearing letters. Not the sharpest tool in the shed.

She said she can't wear them on campus, but wears them off just as comfy clothes. I'm shocked she got to keep her stuff.

Wow!

They typically only have to give back badges and membership certificates....not speaking for all groups, obviously. Tee shirts are way to difficult to track and manage....as are caps, lavaliers, bracelets, paddles, squirrels, Hannah dolls, dolphins, anchors, etc, etc, etc.....

Good luck getting anything back. They hold onto that stuff and say things like "I was/used to be a blah blah". Keep it on their social media, etc. Sell their badges/pins on e bay, etc. I don't care. Posers. It's just stuff. They aren't members. They know it.

With a death grip! And often bad mouth whatever sororities they were members of when the expelled former member's actions were the cause of their terminations.

Yes. Exactly. One thing that I saw/heard about that has been effective: announcing in Chapter the names of members who were terminated for financial reasons, disciplinary reasons, or scholarship reasons (without giving any specifics), as well as members who voluntarily resigned. The members have the right to know and it has really put a stop to the former member(s) wearing their letters, trash talking, etc.

Not sure why the former members want stuff from an organization that they apparently hate so much.

Same people will have excuses for their ex-BFFs, ex-spouses, ex-employers .... Both groups may have dodged a bullet with this "gem".

Exactly, AZTheta!

I don't think that everyone who gets terminated hates the organization. Maybe is indifferent, maybe is irresponsible, but hatred is a strong word.

And I know what Titchou was talking about but her post just gave me a vision of a big ship's anchor in someone's yard. Lol

I'm a *little* surprised that there's not some kind of database for NPC orgs to cross-check names with other NPC orgs before initiation.

Several years ago when I was still a recruitment advisor at UCLA, we heard about a transfer student going through spring recruitment who allegedly had either been a pledge or a member of Gamma Phi at another school (at the time, Panhellenic held a semi-structured formalized recruitment for any of the chapters who had space in the spring, even if it was only for a few members - I actually thought it was very helpful, but that's another discussion.)

Turns out she had been an initiated member, but thought she had to go through recruitment again in order to re-affiliate, maybe confusing the part where chapters need to confirm and vote on affiliate members or something. I don't think she genuinely wanted to try to pledge another organization, because she happily affiliated and became an active member once the issue was cleared up.

We had no reason to check our database until we were tipped off that she might be a member, which apparently she herself disclosed during recruitment. At the time, she was half way through recruitment and could have easily been pledged by another organization. Unless the international orgs cross-check with other organizations, no one would have found out.

We had a transfer who had been an initiated member of XYZ on her former campus. XYZ was also on our campus, but she did not want to affiliate with them. She signed up for recruitment and was told that she couldn't rush because she was a member of XYZ. So she terminated her membership and started the recruitment process. Finally one of the XYZ's had to advise all the other chapter's of the woman's status and that she could not pledge or intiate into any of the other orgs per the NPC rules. The transfer was less than happy and less than gracious when she found out she was screwed.

^^^ I'm not surprised by either of those stories. I find that undergraduate members are not aware of less common procedures, or they have misconceptions. That's why we need advisors!

I think a database would be helpful, but it would be a huge undertaking, and there would be issues with privacy, security, etc. Every group would have to be on board with it.

Here's a sad story...when I was an undergraduate, we had a member who was recommended for termination after a standards/exec hearing. Afterward, she was seen crying in her room while cutting the stitched letters off of her sweatshirts with a pair of cuticle scissors. That still haunts me.

Just an idea, how would we even compile a database? Simply names wouldn't work. Social Security numbers? What happens with international students?

I would imagine that full name (including middle), date of birth, and school initiated would suffice. It sounds like most of our databases are complete enough for most of us to confirm membership when we need to in a matter of minutes (Miss America contestants in the Miss America thread, for example).

The big concern I see is the inclusion of resigned and terminated members - that might require a separate database for NPC or HQ officials.

I think the simplest solution would just be for each NPC to designate one HQ staff member of each of the other NPCs access to their member databases for cross-checking.

The second solution would be a running master list housed with the NPC that just includes names of those initiated (and omits any information on current standing, addresses, etc.)

If this master list did exist would it be possible to somehow integrate it into the RFM program and checked before girls are assigned a recruitment counselor group or a similar setup?

A lot of the NPHC orgs publicly list the names of expelled / suspended members and chapters that have had their charter revoked on the international web site.

I know for SGR, Delta and AKA the information is out there on the web.

Before the internet it was all by word of mouth.

I guess for NPC, each org could submit a list of names to be placed on the NPC web site, or, it could be a feature where you could search a name on the NPC website.

Maybe I missed this, but are we taking this girl's "not knowing the rules" with a grain of salt? What if she really didn't know? Or should she have known (ie, is this stressed in the process?)

She should have known. It was stressed to us not only during sign up for recruitment, but before initiation. There was one moment before initiation where the President or the VP Membership literally said if you continue into this room you are forever bound to KD and cannot join another NPC sorority. Not sure why we did that or if all KD chapters do, but it was pretty cut and dried for us.

With transferring increasingly common and more local chapters refusing to allow transfer affiliation these rules are antiquated and should be changed. I don't see who is hurt by a change in there rules and much harm if they don't.

One problem with this: A lot of people have the same names. Say Jane Smith #1 is initiated into ABC (an NPC sorority) as a freshman at PrivateU, spends a year there, and then transfers to StateU where there is no chapter of ABC. And say, at the same time, Jane Smith #2 goes to PrivateU, does not go greek, and then transfers after one year to StateU. Jane Smith #2 wants to rush at StateU. Both women are named Jane Smith, they're both sophomores, and they both transferred from the same school. How does Jane Smith #2 prove she's not Jane Smith #1, an initiated ABC who is ineligible to rush and join a different NPC?

Ignorance is never an excuse.

What an interesting opinion. Not that it matters. :rolleyes:

Just because you don't personally understand the value of taking an oath and making a commitment, doesn't make it an "antiquated" policy.

I think that maybe the problem is that girls need to open their minds and give a chance to a sister who isn't their clone. I realize there are instances where women must transfer to a school where the Greek system is vastly different in terms of costs or size than what they left,.and they don't want to or are unable $wise to affiliate. That's fine. But if it's a girl who has the grades, money and time and her only crime is that she isn't a beauty - tough beans. They need to let her in. You're part of a national sorority, act like it.

33girl, I know that no chapter is required to approve a member who transfers. Do you think it is really a widespread, common issue? I don't hear about a chapter voting to deny affiliation very often, but I sure don't hear much outside of my own organization.

Of course, we all know about girls who pledge at weaker chapters with the intent of transfering into extremely strong chapters where they woudl likely NOT receive a bid through rush. That complicates things a lot.

I don't think it's widespread at all, but I'm not the one who brought it up as an excuse to scuttle rules.

As for the women who pledge at a weaker chapter/school solely to get into a stronger chapter, I can't imagine that they're really that well received - no one likes to be used as a springboard to social acceptance - and if they want to spend thousands of dollars to be treated (and rightfully so) as second class citizens in their own sorority, that's no skin off my nose.

If I am understanding you correctly you are saying that no chapters vote on affiliations. Here is what I know. There are some NPC groups who do not vote on affiliations. The rationale: you are an initiated member and should not have to be voted on twice for membership. However, there are other NPC member groups who do require that a chapter vote on an affiliation petition.

Automatic affiliation without voting is not universal among all NPC groups.

As for girls transferring into "extremely strong chapters", that can backfire in all sorts of ways.

I think she was saying that if someone transfers, the transfer chapter is not required to accept the girl, which I'm sure happens in some cases, though I haven't heard of a transfer affiliation being denied very often.

However, most groups stress that once you're initiated you can no longer join any other NPC sorority, so I agree that ignorance in that sense is not an excuse. Further, many times, transferring is a choice (though yes, sometimes a necessity) but it's up to the girl to do her research and find out if the school she intends to transfer to has her sorority or not. If they don't, she needs to make sure she's okay with that, or find another school that does have her sorority.

OH my goodness, NO!! That is not what I was saying at all! My understanding is that many, many sororities give their chapters the right to vote to approve OR deny a transfer affiliation.

It is definitely a complicated situation. I don't think that there is a single answer, one way or another.

I meant that the NPC database would still include the above info. Our database includes more information than that (addresses, collegiate/alumna status, etc.) which needs regular updating and would be unnecessary for an NPC database. I assume ours also removes the names of women who have resigned their membership, and that would also be counter-productive for this project.

Wrong thread, sorry.

?

I think, and I could be wrong so I ask that Nanners correct me if I am, that she is acknowledging that image does matter to the extent that we expect PNMs and sisters alike to make sure they put their best foot forward for something like recruitment so it's stupid to think that does not apply to you as an adult in the working world. Image can play a major role in you being gainfully employed.

I think that her post was posted in the wrong thread? Looks like it was meant for the Ray Rice thread. ;)

I hereby call you the Question Mark Quoter. :p

Did I miss what that would have to do with this thread?

I thought Nanners was referring back to national websites having public information about member and chapter suspensions, expulsions, etc.

In the early days of our GLOs publishing this information, some members were apprehensive and felt it tainted the image of the GLOs and the individuals. It technically does but it serves an important purpose. I now wouldn't have it any other way.

/If Nanners wasn't talking about publishing info on websites, please disregard my post :)

This! So, so sorry. Explains why I couldn't find it in the rice thread. Was wondering if I'd imagined the post lol.

Darnit, Nanners.

Wow. Last week I was named the Almighty Syllable Guru, and now I'm the Question Mark Quoter! I'm on a roll!

:p

Haha! That turned weird as we were going from one thread to another. Whoops! Clearly it is my fault for accidentally posting in this thread when it was meant for another. Sorry about that! Please disregard my earlier post. Thanks.