question
 

I've never posted before, but I have a question that hopefully won't show my ignorance about Rush! (I wasn't in a sorority, but my oldest daughter is rushing at UNC now). One of the houses she visited last night must have had a smaller number of members, because several girls from a different college (same sorority) were there helping out. My daughter had a great conversation with the girl she was paired with, but her tee-shirt was a different than a lot of the other sisters. My daughter asked why, and she said she goes to a different university. Is this often done? I understand when a sorority is just starting out at a campus they pull in members from neighboring colleges to help with Rush. But this house has evidently been at UNC for over 20 years. My daughter said she loved the girl she talked to, but she felt like she would have rather met someone that was actually a UNC student. She doesn't really know what to think about this house since she didn't really have a conversation with a member. (She talked to two girls and both were from the other college) Is this a red flag? Hopefully I haven't offended anyone!

It's not uncommon. Yes, it generally means that the chapter is smaller than many other chapters on campus and that the volume of PNMs was such that they needed reinforcements.

I would advise that your daughter should keep an open mind when listing this chapter as she will get chances to speak with more women as rush continues.

There are benefits to joining a smaller chapter so please encourage her to consider all aspects of the groups when weighing her options.

I would suggest to her to continue to give them a chance. The size of the parties will likely shrink over the next round or 2 and hopefully she will get to meet more of the chapter sisters. The upside of a chapter like this is she can be part of a phoenix-like rebirth. The downside is, I won't lie, it's a lot of work to be in the small but growing chapter. But the quality of the sisterhood is not necessarily worse (or better for that matter) based solely on the number of active members. If she has aspirations for leadership she should REALLY think about this chapter; you definitely have more opportunities for leadership in a smaller chapter.

If she goes back to this chapter and is paired with a sister from a different school again, she may want to ask to speak with a sister who is an actual active member of the chapter. I would.

And they proper way to do that would be "I've really enjoyed being here. It would be great to meet some of the members of the local chapter."

I spoke with my daughter this morning. After all of the rounds were finished last night, she had to rank all of the houses in order. She really struggled with what to do about the house in question. Your advice has been great, and I wish I could have talked to her before she made her rankings. She ranked them last because she just didn't feel like she had any other choice. All of her conversations at the other 9 houses had been GREAT, and there just wasn't another clear choice for the bottom spot. I have a feeling that they might show back up on her party schedule so hopefully she'll get a chance to go there again and speak to someone from the UNC chapter. I really feel for that chapter. It's a double edged sword - they have fewer members and need to bring in reinforcements, but that might cause doubt in a lot of girls' minds. My daughter said that the other girls in her recruitment group were talking about it as if it was a negative sign. I wonder if they could have just talked to couple of girls at a time to avoid having to pull in the girls from another chapter.

It's sometimes a no win situation. Having 2 or 3 PNMs per active causes talk too, and can leave PNMs feeling uncomfortable.

After seeing this, I mentioned it to my daughter that is also going through Recruitment at UNC. She knew exactly which house it is, and had a similar reaction to finding out that the cute girl she had hit it off with doesn't even go to Carolina. I didn't ask how she did her rankings, but I have a feeling she ranked them low. I agree...it's sad that they are struggling (I assume that's the case) especially since a new chapter of Alpha Phi is colonizing in 2015. I truly hope they have a great Recruitment so they will be able to stand strong in Recruitment next year.

We've discussed this so many times here on GC. Is it better to have women come in from other chapters to fill the room, or is it better to just not hide it and double/triple rush PNMs? The conclusion has kind of been...both are just a lousy situation.

I can see the other-school thing working well if the two chapters are from the same city and/or truly have a bond and hang out with each other a lot, but that's usually not the way it works.

I think it depends on the numbers. If doubling up will solve the problem, I'd do that, with outside sisters doing all of the back of house work. But sometimes that's just not enough.

I think there are ways to have the 2nd chapter involved to "fill the room" and not make PNMs feel weary about returning. Possible solutions:

- Bump halfway through, and make sure every PNM talks to at least one girl from the local chapter.

- Put 2 PNMs with 1 local chapter member and 1 member from the visiting chapter in a group together to talk. Things would be "even" and every PNM would get to meet with one local chapter member.

At the very least, I think it should be announced to PNMs that not all of the sisters are from the local chapter. They could do this to make it sound like a positive thing ("We have sisters all across the country, and we like to get together with other sisters from different chapters whenever possible, and we wanted to show you all the wide reach our network of sisters has, blah, blah, blah...). I think the biggest problem is that some PNMs don't know about this ahead of time and then feel "duped" or cheated out of an opportunity to get to know the people that could potentially be their chapter sisters.

It's a tough situation for a chapter to be in, but I think there are better ways to handle it.

All this.

Also, all the rotation groups need to have women from the "home school" and they need make darn sure they're rotating enough so that those women get to talk with all the PNMS.

At the very least, have the "home school" girls floating into the conversations "for a quick visit".

I'm not super familiar with the NPC process (only as much as I've learned from GC over the years) but this all sounds like an interesting situation. I'd be interested to know how it all turns out for your daughter, TarheelMom.

How is a "smaller" or "weak recruiting chapter" (loathe that term) supposed to grow?

ASTAlumna -- excellent suggestions.

They need to learn how to cultivate friendships with women outside formal rush. If they seem like a good fit, ask them to join. If they aren't a good fit, maintain the friendships even so. Those women will tell their friends that XYZ is an awesome sorority even if it wasn't for them.

Take a second pledge class in the "off season" through open bidding and look at upperclassmen, transfers etc. Once these girls are in the chapter, get help from HQ and teach them how to formal rush. It's no good getting these girls if they're going to be clueless bumps on a log at formal.

And most importantly - even though this sounds counterproductive - CUT THE DEAD WEIGHT! Get rid of the girls who are just there for letters or mixers, those who continually complain about their lower-tier social status and do nothing to try and remedy it, those who don't want to work. They will only drag the mood of the whole chapter down.

I think the answers to that will be different depending on the type of school. At a very large recruitment, I think bringing in another chapter to help is necessary just due to numbers. Also, at many large recruitments, the chapter needs to pick up as many new members as possible during formal because COB is stigmatized and unlikely to pick up enough new members. I hope that the RFM requirement that adjusts total to average chapter size will reduce/eliminate the COB stigma since so many chapters will have open spots. But, WRCs at large schools aren't talking about filling 10-20 spots - they might be 50-100 members smaller than the other chapters. I don't think COB is conducive to picking up those kinds of numbers.

There are a few chapters I can think of that did a great job of doing a revamp, half way to a full recolonization. I don't know them first hand so I don't want to name names in case my perception is off. But I would only recommend this method if you're off by a lot and headquarters is on board to go all in. Doing it that way but half-assed is a guarantee to destroy your reputation and put you years off schedule, if at all.

In more cases, I'd say a 5 year plan of very selective growth and accepting smaller numbers of improving quality is the way to go.

Thanks :)

To me, this is the perfect reason to COB. And you know who these chapters should be targeting? The girls who don't know that COB is stigmatized. In other words, the girls who don't even know yet that they want to be Greek. Smaller chapters have to take advantage of the fact that no other chapters are recruiting and befriend any girl they can that isn't already Greek. COB doesnt have to come in the form of recruitment parties; it can just be asking a classmate to grab coffee. Active "recruitment" (i.e. making friends) should be a full-time job for all of the members of that chapter. That may sound exhausting, but I've known chapters that have turned things around over the course of a year by kicking it into high gear and actively getting to know as many people as possible.

It is if you're doing it right.

Better to have a springtime pledge class of 40 carefully chosen (I.e. you've been getting to know them over a semester) girls who can be showered with attention and feel special, rather than have a formal rush class that is too large for the chapter to the handle, to the point where members have to take 2 and 3 littles at once and new members feel lost in the shuffle.

And re COB stigma, if NPC really wants chapters to grow and achieve parity, they need to not make stupid rules that effectively say "all bids are not created equal. "

When I was in school my chapter always had some women from a neighboring school in the room during formal to fill space. They didn't rush anyone.

We were constantly reminded to "always be rushing" and that "it only takes one". As in, if every sister can bring one girl to COB events you can manage to make huge impacts to your numbers.


If your chapter is small enough that you know you'll still have plenty of room even if you hit quota, there becomes an incentive to start targeting amazing women who have zero intent to go through formal.

As in, "Don't sign up for rush, we're having COB immediately after. You won't have to deal with the stress." If it's girls that your chapter literally already knows they're going to bid....well it's still technically against the rules.

Which rules are those?

That whole if you sign a bid, you are only bound until the next formal rush period bs. A bid should bind you for a year, no matter when it is issued.

I was curious about chapter numbers, and looked at the Spring 2014 grade report. This chapter had anywhere from 40 - 70 fewer members than the other houses. The average size is about 170. This was also before the Senior class graduated. Hopefully today (Round Two) will be more manageable for them with fewer girls attending parties. (I assume there are fewer girls....my daughter has 8 parties but there were 10 time slots to accommodate everyone.) I'm not quite sure how it works..

Chapters usually have more time slots than the number of parties so that the number of PNMs at each party is less, and therefore more manageable

My daughter is rushing right now also...so nervous for her! She called me with her schedule this AM and the house that she ranked last wasn't on her schedule for today. Will it potentially show up again? Or once it's off, it's off for good?

Once it's gone, it's gone.

Probably so. But it is possible, in rare situations, that it could show up on someone's. But since she has a full schedule today, it's highly unlikely.

Formal recruitments are normally about a year apart. The only time a bid would expire before a year is up is a COB one that was issued a good time after FR. And since bids can't be issued in the summer, you aren't talking about that many instances. Say FR is in Aug/Sept. Those bids don't expire till the next Aug/Sept. If a chapter does COB in November or January, those people could drop out and then do FR again in Aug/Sept.

What's wrong with that? Do you want someone to be eligible to accept a bid elsewhere at any time? Like if FR is over today and tomorrow I decide to drop my group, I could accept a bid from another one on Tuesday? Is that what you are advocating? Even the NCAA doesn't allow that with athletic scholarship recipients. You ahve to sit out a year at the new school. At least with NPC, if you transfer, you are good to go with another group.

I think she is saying that if you sign a bid during COB in the spring, you shouldn't be allowed to participate in formal recruitment that fall, meaning that the COB bid is bound for a year just like a bid received during FR would be? (correct me if I'm wrong)

So if you COBed in January and dropped, you shouldn't be able to go thru formal recruitment until August of the following year - a year and a half later? Oh my....it's worse than I thought. How cruel.

The "stigma" of COB is the issue, is my take on what 33 is communicating. I can't see a way around this, myself. Unless we abolish formal recruiting and all we do is COB. All of us. Isn't that how we all started, anyway?

Yes I am being annoying.

So making the woman wait 1-1/2 years to participate in FR is taking away the stigma of COB? If that's what she's thinking, she needs an adjustment. All that would do is generate more animosity towards the Greek system. Talk about exclusivity....

Yes, we are talking about making the woman wait 1-1/2 years to participate in FR IF SHE WAS GIVEN AND ACCEPTED A CONTINUOUS OPEN BID.

Oh my! Even my metaphorical pearls may not last.....

Just throwing in my two cents coming from a campus that treated informal recruitment like formal, with a few exceptions.

We had a structured week of parties, registration, rho chis, etc. There was no disaffiliation, members could speak to PNMs outside of parties, no MRABA, and PNMs could receive bids to both pref parties they attended (same amount of parties as formal). Not once did I come across any additional chapters offering bids to PNMs that did not attend a pref party. As a deferred recruitment, informal was held in the fall and specifically meant for upperclassmen.

Despite no MRABA, if PNMs accepted a bid during informal, they could not participate in recruitment again for a calendar year. On this type of campus, it was "equal" because there was very little difference to the PNMs during which type of recruitment they participated in. This was the only way COB was conducted - additional new members were distributed bids as a COB only prior to any new member education began. The option was there for us to extend bids year-round, but none of the chapters participated in doing so.

CPH has been doing incredibly well the past few years - at least one or two chapters (out of 5) during informal are at total and do not participate. It will be interesting to see if they move away from a structured informal recruitment, but I believe they will still hold the bylaw of accepting a bid = bound for one year.

Exactly. You made a promise to a group. You signed a bid. You are bound. It makes ZERO difference that you didn't go through formal rush to get that bid. A promise is a promise, and saying "well, since this wasn't a bid given in formal rush, we can just flush it so you can go through formal rush again. " That ramps up the stigma that is already there.

FWIW, I do NOT think it's a good idea to give women who are complete virgins to the Greek system (first semester freshmen, women who know no one in the group) open bids without their having been through a formal rush. That pledge class of 40 I was talking about upthread shouldn't be strangers, it should be women you know who for whatever reason didn't join during formal.

How are smaller groups supposed to be able to grow if they can't be assured that the bids they give during that "catch-up" time will be respected? I can just hear it - "hey, let's pledge ABC. If it turns out we hate it, it's no big deal. We can quit and go through formal next semester." If anything is "cruel" it's having to fear that with every bid you give.

Chapters that are appreciably smaller than the others (with a few exceptions) simmply CAN NOT make it all up during formal. They must hit the ground running. The best way to do that is with a second pledge class that brings their numbers closer to that of other groups.

And yes to everything luv n tpa said. To me, a once a year pledge class is still just odd. It's like shoving all 3 meals for the day into your mouth at breakfast.

Addendum, for those who will say "why didn't you just give them bids right after formal and integrate them into the fall class?"

Think about the state of mind of these bidless women. They are shellshocked. They have just gone through a week or two with NOTHING to focus on but rush and failed. The last thing they want to hear about is a group that didn't make an impression or made a bad one (even if the girls themselves are nice).

After a month or two, when they've actually gotten to know Greeks and how the system works outside of rush, they may be a little more receptive to getting to know that "unimpressive" group. People need to heal. You wouldn't recommend someone run out and sign up for eharmony the minute the ink is dry on her divorce.

I agree with what 33girl is saying. A lot of you are clutching your pearls, but you're doing it from huge houses on large campuses with competitive recruitments. You think that waiting a year and a half is detrimental to a girl ever joining a chapter, but think about this: What's the typical recruitment situation on your campus? I'm willing to bet that for the most part, girls clamor for spots in formal recruitment, some are dropped or drop out themselves, and those girls contemplate whether or not they should go through recruitment the following year. The girls who received bids and dropped have to wait a year. No harm, no foul. A year is a year.

Now put yourself on a smaller campus where no recs are required and COB is done on the regular. Recruitment events aren't about 15 minute conversations and bumping groups, but about lunches out and study groups and getting to know someone in "normal" situations. Potential members spend time with sisters and are essentially brought into the chapter in every way possible, except formally through a bid.

Then... they receive a formal invitation to join. They spend days, then weeks, with the chapter... And then they drop. Two months later, they're going through formal recruitment, joining another chapter.

Does that sound OK to you? Does that also have you clutching your pearls?