Disappointed Mom
 

Hi I haven't visited this site for awhile. I wish I had. My daughter just rushed at a strong SEC school. She was sick with strep last year so she waited until this year. We knew it was harder as a sophomore but chose to give it her best shot.

She has a strong GPA (3.58) Nine rec letters, an outgoing pleasant personality, "clean" social media, appropriate rush attire and like everyone else, gorgeous :) She hated some houses, liked others and loved four of them.

She was dropped by two thirds after first round, had 5/6 what she thought were wonderful interviews on round 2 and the house where she had killer recs ( past president of the chapter on this campus) she had a horrible interview.

After round two she was cut. It is very disappointing. She (with permission from the Pi Chi) did visit friends at a Frat house that week. I didn't agree but what can you do? No drinking, no inappropriate behavior of any kind. She visited this house often last year as well; she has two platonic guy friends there and did note some "glares" from sorority sisters as she had a brief relationship with one other guy there.

I'm searching for an answer though we'll never know. Any thoughts? Did the Frat house visits do her in? I'm thinking they didn't help. I know there are many qualified, smart, beautiful, well rounded girls like mine that didn't get a bid but it really stings.

I think you might already know the answer to your question.

Disappointed Mom
 

Yes, I think I do. Thank you :)

Is it worth it trying again in Spring or do they have long memories?

You might use this as a teachable moment, that your life doesn't neatly compartmentalize itself and behavior she saw as perfectly innocent was seen as, what, slutty, aggressive, unsisterly, whatever by the sorority women she encountered at the fraternity house. If you are not in a sorority but want to be, you should consider every encounter with sorority women as a rush event. Fair? Maybe not. But she had an opportunity to make friends with the women there and instead (apparently) made some enemies. It might not be too late to repair her reputation. It's worth trying anyway.

I wouldn't say we're elephants, however - we do tend to have long memories. She needs to decide if she's willing to try again, and accept a bid from any chapter.

Long memories, plus she's an upperclassmen. She can sign up, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Thank you so much for such a great response :) I clearly remember asking if going to the Frat House during Rush week was "appropriate" and she assured my she was told it was fine just not to talk to other sorority girls at the time. One even asked her name which retrospectively was probably a very bad omen. It is hard for her and I won't lie, to me, as we thought we prepared well and to possibly have blown this over an innocent evening or past jealously from last year, is a very "teachable" thing.

I dunno, I'm not so quick to brush over this part, either:

Don't forget that your daughter was on campus for a whole year already. It sounds like she's made friends in the Greek community. It honestly could be anything, it might not even have to do with this most recent visit. It just stands to say that a year is a long time to make questionable choices.

And remember that these are 18-22 year old women, their reasons aren't always rational.

It's kind of ironic as last year she kept commenting on how "drunk" the girls were and she (seriously) rarely drinks. She knew some were envious of the guy she was dating but then again, said they were so drunk, she doubted they'd remember her...

I can't figure out why she thought it was an "innocent evening". Having been on campus for a year, dating a fraternity guy and evidently raising some emotions in sorority girls, I am having a hard time buying what she's selling, mom. She knew at some level this was risky/not a great idea. I also agree that the "hating some" may be significant. She may have shown some of her attitude and it bit her, especially as a soph.

Am I the only person who thinks it odd that someone who hasn't been through recruitment yet or even been to college is offering feedback?

Not sure why it's ironic. If they were at the same fraternity house on a frequent basis last year, she would be a known entity to them, especially if she was a non-Greek dating a fraternity man. If she knew they were envious, it would seem foolish to even risk it.

Also, as someone else pointed out, you said she "hated" some of the houses. If she "hated" the houses, there is a good chance she wasn't particularly at her friendliest when she went through; word gets around to other houses because girls have friends in every house.

Hopefully she has learned from this. She is lucky to have a supportive mother like you who seems to have a good head on her shoulders.

Your daughter sounds really judgmental. Maybe that's why she was released.

My daughter is rushing this week at a large SEC school (TAMU) and knows under no condition should she go anywhere that is the least bit questionable, permission or not. She has worked too long and hard for this experience and wants to be greek so badly to put herself into any type of questionable situation. It's Gig'em week - parties everywhere. Thursday night the Aggies play South Carolina and her fish camp group is watching the party together but she isn't. She doesn't want to risk it.

I met this girl and I cut her like whoah!!!

In all seriousness, if you have ANY interest in rushing and meet women at fraternity houses, especially if you're dating a brother, always be kind, friendly and gracious. (Note I didn't say "sorority women." This applies to ALL women you meet because you never know who is friends with who.) What you want is for women to go back to their friends and sisters and say "I know I should hate that Susie chick because she's dating Danny that Jen likes, but I talked to her and she's really nice."

adiisis - what is fish camp??? (Please tell me it has nothing to do with Troy McClure from the Simpsons.)

AZTheta - I need new contacts. I thought your post said "I wouldn't say we're eggplants."

Hi, She's not judgmental and I'm sorry if it came across that way. There are two points to make that I didn't make clear: She felt that as she often saw the girls drinking "a lot" that maybe they wouldn't remember she was there with a guy they made no secret of liking. (Wrong) Also, she would have accepted a bid from any house. She felt that some of the houses she "hated" weren't friendly or more likely didn't click with her. No matter what the house offered her a bid, she would have accepted :)

You're right. She is friendly to everyone but should have made an effort to be friendlier with these girls. A lesson learned :)

About Fish Camp

Fish Camp strives to welcome freshmen into the Aggie family by sharing the traditions and values of Texas A&M University and creating a universally accepting support system that allows them to build relationships and embody the Aggie spirit.

(I miss Troy McClure.)

So sorry
 

So sorry your daughter was disappointed. I think a lot of PNM's think that knowing fraternity guys is a plus- but at my school it could be a double edged sword.
A lot of girls in my house did not like non-greek girls who would hang out at fraternity houses. It sounds weird- but going over to a frat house with a group of sisters was okay but a girl showing up by herself was often talked about. I can look back now and see how ridiculous this thinking was, but with age comes clarity that 18 & 19 year olds do not have.
As far as going to parties etc. during rush week- what one house finds acceptable, another house may frown upon. It's the same as Sisterhood week, etc.- some chapters would let girls go out and party and others were on virtual lockdown.

I agree. Her best friend, a non-Greek is best friends with a frat guy and the four of them hung out all platonically. She was never there on her own. The platonic ( really good looking) guy made no secret of the fact he really liked her so that didn't help. I agree that going last week was a big mistake but also agree with some posters that she inadvertently made some "enemies" last year. It is a shame. Every mom thinks her daughter is special and deserves a bid. She rarely drinks, isn't promiscuous, stellar grades in non-fluff courses but made "innocent" decisions that most likely came back to bite her. A very painful lesson......for both of us.

I can't believe that a Pi Chi said it was okay to visit a fraternity house during Recruitment week. That is just such an absolute no-no.

I agree. She did however say go with the caveat not to "talk" to any sorority girls but she never should have gone. I told her not to, but all we can do is offer advice. AND be supportive when it didn't work out they way she wanted.

u

Pamt, I think you are a great Mom with a great attitude. You are supportive, but honest, a rare combination. It is so hard to watch them have those difficult experiences. I hope she has a great year....you too!

On another note.....

It could be that catty, jealous girls used the only power they have- and cut her from rush. Young people do many things we don't do later in life. They lack maturity. They may have been threatened by her and her popularity.

When I hear the parents of students (often they are the smart engineering students, and kids of that type) put down Greek life I am defensive. However, there is a certain amount of judgment- and it doesn't come from the best of people. So- maybe your daughter will be better off without these judgmental people with an "us against her" mentality.

Greek life went well for my first born, but I can understand why so many other kids want no part of it. Heck- look at the way people behave on this site. Enough said.
I know I'm going to get flamed- but that's ok.

Yeah that stuck out to me as well. Is it possible your daughter didn't rank all of her options, or acted rude at houses that would have accepted her if she had given them a chance?

I mean you weren't there, you're just being a supportive mom, so I can understand if you wouldn't know this :p But just a thought.

Also I'm a bit confused about the fraternity party part...if it was pre-rush and only one sorority was there, how would this have affected her chances at ALL of the sororities? Just seems strange to me. And why were girls glaring at her for being there? Was it an exclusive mixer? :confused:

Caveat from me: I'm not personally familiar with SEC Greek life and social norms, so I'm just offering the first thing that came to mind here.

Does your daughter get along more easily with men than women? That was kind of the first thing I thought of when I read all of this, especially if there was truly no romantic interest with these men on your daughter's part. I notice that you don't mention anything about sorority friends your daughter made while dating one of the men last year, but the platonic male friends seem to play a dominant role.

There's no judgment either way on who she makes friends with more easily, but it can be an indication of how she has interacted with other women over the lat year. I've seen it with women even in my own chapter in college - they typically had more male friends, and were just much less fluid with navigating all of those female relationship subtleties, which we all can agree are pretty complex sometimes.

I suppose it's possible that some Greek women truly get annoyed when non-Greeks date a popular fraternity man, but I would imagine that a respectful relationship would have allowed your daughter to become friends with the sorority women who were also dating men in that chapter. Those relationships should have been helpful during recruitment. If that didn't happen for whatever reason, I suppose that some of the women could have thought she was aloof or whatnot.

This seems to concern me the most. I've seen plenty of incidents where someone has dated more than one person in the same house, but it's always pretty touchy. Even if your daughter truly just appreciated this guy in a 100% friend capacity, his overtures could really change the way their relationship was perceived to outsiders. And if it was known she wasn't interested, that could spark some disapproval in the way she was handling the situation.

Just my two cents. I'm not sure any of these thoughts will be particularly helpful for your daughter, and I wish you both the best of luck for the next three years!

lane swerve/

While this mother's account may be accurate, it is generally the case that parents don't know their children as much as they believe. College is a time when many people "find themselves" and become their own person. Most people won't share that with their parents. Their parents will keep the "my little kid" version and every incident will be depicted as their daughter or son being an awesome person who was unfairly treated due to no fault of their own.

/lane swerve

Hindsite is 20/20. Sophomores and other upperclassmen can have a tough time because they are a known quantity. Now's the time to move on, find other ways to be involved on campus and forget the whole experience. There are too many things to do in college to focus on this. I hope she has a great time for the rest of her time there.

Thank you for the great advice. She does belong to a co-ed prelaw fraternity that took up a ton of time last year and she has a position in it this year that will take up even more. She is considering rushing a small non-Greek community service sorority in a few weeks. I feel that visiting the frat house rush week, even to visit with platonic friends was a mistake. However, after a tough Sunday, she is enjoying her classes, keeping busy and 'moving on.'

I know that some campuses have (or used to have) rules that "discouraged" PNMs from doing anything other than rush or school related activities during recruitment. PNMs went to dinners with their rush counselors and then the girls hung out in their dorms, rehashed their parties among themselves, watched TV, and got ready for the next day. PNMs were either told they could not go to fraternity parties during rush week, it was greatly discouraged, or it was suggested that it could be detrimental to their success in making it thru to bid day. Maybe your daughter's campus shares similar information with the PNMs, and the sororities looks at those girls who decide to go ahead and ignore the suggestion as potential risk management problems.

Ugh, this is horrible. I understand not going to fraternity parties, but other social stuff/clubs/whatever? If you make recruitment someone's ENTIRE LIFE, no wonder women can't ignore tent talk and stuff.

I think a big part of the problem of formal rush happening before school starts (although in general I think it's probably better) is the huge bubbles these girls live in and everything becomes exponentially more important than it would be otherwise. If they can see sorority life as a part of an entire college life experience and not the oh my god it's the only thing that matters for the rest of my life, then being cut by this or that chapter wouldn't seem as devastating.

The campuses I referred to hold rush before classes start, so except for rush and fraternity parties not much else was going on.

Judgemental, boyfriend issues, srat girl issues, whatever it was, it's devastating to be released during Recruitment. Sometimes, worse for the mom than the PNM. I'm sorry that it ended that way for both of you. My best advice is rally the friends she has and move on to another campus organization where she will be happy. Best of luck to you.