Can a Rush-Savvy Person Help Me Please?
 

Even though I was very active with my sorority as a collegian and still am as an alumna, I never did learn very much about the Panhel side of things.

I have two rush related questions for anyone who knows more about rush than I do (which should be just about everybody!). I think these may have been answered, but a search of the topics proved fruitless. I think in the Rush forum, we get so excited about everyone's experiences that we tend to ramble off-thread sometimes, so who knows where the answers could be buried? :)

Anyhoo, could someone please explain to me...

1. Why is sorority rush so structured (i.e. rounds, party themes, etc.) compared to fraternity rush?

2. Why can't the schools where many women need to be cut due simply to lack of space (SEC schools come to mind here) simply raise quota and ceiling to help accommodate more people?


Thanks so much for your time! :)

1. Women are just naturally more structured than men - oversimplifying, but I think that really is the heart of it.

2. I think because it would be very very hard to run a chapter with 500 sisters (and that would happen, with as popular as Greek life is there) and I think there are also housing issues involved. Plus, the elite-ness would go away if everyone who wanted to take part in it could. I would be all for that, but that's just me. :p

As to #2, another answer could be that the larger, more "popular" sororities would proliferate at the expense of the smaller ones to the point that many chapters would close. Face it, we all have chapters who are at or near the bottom of their campus social ladders and some would be gone in 2 years!

Because we all have these chapters, I don't think any one NPC group is going to stand up at the national meeting and suggest that we remove quotas! Our sororities have put way too much money into their chapters, especially those with houses!;)

Re: Can a Rush-Savvy Person Help Me Please?
 

I'm sorry, but I've never accepted that the reason so many women get cut at SEC schools (and others w/ similar Rushes) is due to lack of space.

Quota=[#rushees at end of rush]/[#chapters]

So if a school starts w/ 1500 rushees and 20 chapters, quota will be 75 as long as there's still 1500 rushees at the end.

Rushees drop out and yes there are girls that get cut from every house. There's umpteen reasons for that.

Does anyone honestly believe that if a girl gets cut from every single house right off the bat it's simply because of space? I don't think so. There are some girls that just shouldn't be in any sorority anywhere. And there are girls that would make fantastic members but just not at their present school. Every schools Greek system is different. A girl could get snapped up by "the best" at one and not even looked at twice by "the worst" at another.

I honestly believe that the reason the rush dropout rate is so high at SEC schools is because the rushees decide what chapters they want long before they get to campus. A girl gets cut by her top choices and she gives up. The other chapters aren't good enough. And that's not fair.

Think about it. If a chapter that isn't a top tier becomes more aggressive in their cutting they can end up hurting themselves.

Say ABC is the "IT" house and XYZ it "THAT" house. XYZ decides that they need to up their status and figure the best way is to cut all the girls that wouldn't even have a shot at ABC. That means XYZ will be inviting all the same girls ABC is inviting plus the ones that for unimaginable reasons ABC decides just aren't right for them at this time.

Rhonda Rushee really really wants to be ABC. She meets XYZ and thinks they're nice. But she knows that she'd rather be GDI than XYZ.

ABC thinks Rhonda's okay but decides to cut her for some mysterious reason. XYZ thinks that Rhonda is God's gift to Rush and would be thrilled to have her.

Rhonda picks up her invites and is crushed that ABC dropped her. She's also upset that XYZ would invite her back. Don't they know that she couldn't be one of them. So Rhonda, and her 20 friends that also got dropped by ABC but invited by XYZ drop out of rush altogether!

So now what you have is 21 girls that could have had a bid at XYZ; could have been sisters w/ each other; could have, should have been Greek. But nope, they'd rather be GDI than XYZ. They could have all been XYZ together!!!! And XYZ is left w/ less than quota because the rushees were so self obsessed they failed to realize that they could have been the pledge class that helped turned XYZ from "that" to "it".

This happens all the frickin time and it pisses me off!!!

k I'm kind of rambling now.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that if a school has a lot of chapters and a ton of rushees but you get massive drop out rates or no bid match AND have chapters not making quota; then imho you've got a bigger problem w/ the rushees than w/ the chapters. Yes the chapters aren't perfect. But they want rushees to join not to quit.

Also, you shouldn't really have to raise total. If all the chapters are at total plus then add a chapter.

WOW! Great post SoCalGirl! You may not get 100% agreement, but there is a ton of truth in what you said IMO!

On a similar note, how does a local Panhellenic know when to raise total vs. when to add a chapter?

another question about rush
 

I was very involved in my university's panhel and quite a few people on GC have said something I don't understand. How can you list a chapter on your pref card if you didn't attend their prefs? At my school chapters only listed girls that were at their pref parties. If you weren't there you weren't listed. Isn't this essentially intentional single preferencing (suiciding)?

SoCalGirl: Wow! I agree with Justamom. There is a ton of truth in your post. I enjoyed it immensely. :)

Amen, SoCal Girl--but how do we change the mindset?:confused:

Well, we can do a small part here on GC, by stopping all the nonsensical "What is ABC like on your campus" threads!

When people post on those threads, they are forgetting that many PNMs lurk and read, without ever registering or posting anything themselves.

On a larger scale, I can only say that we should not be contributing to rumors, stereotypes, etc that run rampant on campuses.

Think it's funny to sing degrading songs about XYZ? Think again! Do you know - REALLY know - who's listening?

I honestly believe we Greeks only have OURSELVES to blame when PNMs refuse to accept bids from certain groups.

Re: Can a Rush-Savvy Person Help Me Please?
 

1. The idea is to make the playing field more 'level' and fair and eliminate the possibility of recruitment abuses.

2. Because the houses themselves may feel that they cannot manage a larger chapter - could you imagine a chapter with 300 women in it? YOu'd never know anyone and chapter meetings would be a nightmare. I know that at LSU if a chapter did want to come on campus and alleviate this issue, the campus requires them to provide competitive housing. That would mean a multi-million dollar investment right off the bat - that's an awfully large chance to take with a new colony.

SoCalGrl, I agreed with most of what you said in your long post.

My personal opinion is that too many girls get their hearts set on a particular chapter before they even come into rush. For whatever reason theyn refuse to change their minds no matter how much they would fit in at a different house. This was a big problem at Kent because we did not have a single IT house....we had three. Sounds good, but it caused MAJOR competition between houses. Say a girl came into rush and first party we see that she has made her nametag in the shape of an anchor. Not too hard to figure out where she thinks she wants to go!!!! In most cases, no matter how hard Alpha Phi and Chi O would rush her she'll show up to second in a sailor dress, third with an anchor necklace on...you get the picture. Not to say that this didn't happen with all three houses so it evened out somewhat, but it cut down on flexibility. Sometimes the girl who so desperately wanted Alpha Phi would be a fantastic Chi O, and a girl who thinks she is so Chi O actually isn't our first choice and would be better suited to DG. Then there are the girls who come in thinking they are so top tier when they don't impress anyone. They would probably get into another house but they drop out when they get cut from the top tier houses. Stupid!!! At least give it a shot, you know? Kent did not allow suiciding for any reason unless a girl only got asked back to one pref party, but in those cases it was usually a house that needed numbers and she was pretty safely guaranteed a bid. But with the big 3 it was a crapshoot. I guess because the three houses were virtually interchangeable at least VISUALLY, it got scrambled up. The good news is that generally when a girl was pref'ing big 3 houses only, if she didn't get her first choice she almost always took her bid. I can't tell you how many Chi Os put Alpha Phi first on their card, how many Delta Gammas put Chi Omega first, and how many Alpha Phis put DG. It was almost a joke with us all.

I guess my point is that a lot of it is the rushees' doing. I don't think raising quota would help. I agree with whoever said it would just overload the popular houses and help destroy the less popular houses unneccessarily. Until these girls accept the fact that the chapters know where they belong a LOT better than they do, it isn't going to change.

Re: Can a Rush-Savvy Person Help Me Please?
 

This is somewhat away from the real question but...

While I find Sorority rush incredibly hectic, and way too stressful (It's good to be a guy...;) ) I do have to say that in a way it is a big positive that girls have to meet with all (or a vast majority) of chapters. I think we all know that girls tend to be slightly cliqueier than guys in general and that without having to see all the houses they would limit themselves to only ones where they knew someone.

From my own personal experience I know that coming from out of state it might have been nice to actually met with all the houses in a more formal setting. Like everyone (I imagine) there was a period where I wondered what it would have been like if I had pledged XYZ or EF, particularly with the houses that I just randomly skipped over during informal rush.

As for the other aspects of the structured rush, I'm interested to hear possible reasons.

At the campus where we just colonized, the local Panhellenic decided to add another chapter instead of raising total due to the small number of sororities on campus. (There are 4, including our colony). The chapters currently on campus are all at or over total, and they had a really successful colonization 4 years ago with one sorority, so they opted to try it again. I think it really depends on the situation.

I would be willing to bet that many smaller NPC sororities would LIKE to colonize on a campus in the SEC, but probably don't because it would take so many resources that they may not have in place.

Awesome post, SoCalGirl...maybe we should print it out and put it in the rushees' Greek Guides next fall!!!!

Thank you everyone for the positive responses to my post. I was kinda scared that I might tick some people off w/ it. :o I know that not everyone will agree w/ it.

I'm at a lost on how to help change it thought. Personally when I transfered to UCSD I knew that I was going to join Alpha Phi Omega, do community service and be quite content w/ a co-ed fraternity. I moved on campus and Sorority Spring Rush started three days later.

I saw the fliers and banners and for reasons that still baffle me, I became obsessed w/ Pi Phi. I knew I would be a Pi Phi. I belonged there! Yet I'd never met a Pi Phi. Hell I wasn't even 100% sure how to say it. Plus I figured they'd go by the nick name Beta since none of the other sororities have Beta in their name. :p :o

So info night comes and I meet some sisters from the chapter. They were so great that I was positive that at the end of the week I'd be chillin' w/ them. Then the first round of parties came and I met the rest of the chapter. Something didn't click w/ the rest of the girls. I was so sad. But I kept my chin up and spent the rest of the week agonizing over XO and SK.

It would have been sooo easy to have gone home after the Pi Phi party and given up. But I somehow had the sense to visit the other chapters and figure out what being Greek was all about.

I was asked to Pref Theta, XO and SK. :D Now, I'm a very happy SK Alumna. :cool:

hey!
 

hey socalgirl i know this is off topic, but im pmed you and i dont know if you got it... didnt you have a friend who was rushing at usd? what house did she end up going to? hey and my best friend in the world is a pike at ucsd!

Chantilly-

I just pm'd you back. :D

SoCalGirl,

Wow, I had to laugh at your last post, in a good way! I had no idea you wanted to be an APhiO at UCSD. You could've been my "brother" there!

I guess what happened to us was opposite. I didn't join an NPC group when I transferred for financial reasons. I'm glad there was Alpha Phi Omega; I enjoyed doing community service work and being part of a 2nd family.

Thank you for your great posts!

Re: another question about rush
 

Aha! A question to which I know the answer!!

Two words: SNAP BIDDING.

Here's how it works, based very loosely on a true story

Nina P. Newmember goes to a school with three sororites. She goes through Rush and really loves ABC, thinks that DEF is okay and she'd like to join it if she's cut by her first choice, and GHI, which she doesn't click with at all. Nina drops GHI and goes to two pref parties, and of course prefs her first choice first, and so on. Her Rho Chi tells all the rushees to list her prefs and go home. She lists her two and goes back to take off her shoes, which look fantastic but are killing her.

Meanwhile, back at the sorority houses...

Nina loved ABC, but they've got other people in mind. Quota is 8 and she ends up #9 on their bid list. That also happens with DEF, only worse 'cause she's #10 on their list. GHI lists their people and she's not on their bid list at all 'cause she didn't attend their pref party.

HOWEVER

She IS on GHI's snap bid list, the list of people who went through Rush but didn't go back to all their parties. EVERYONE who went through Rush is on the snap bid lists for each of the three groups UNLESS they were cut by that particular group. This makes life no fun for the actives, because they now have to list everyone who came through their door and was not cut from Rush (notice I did not say dropped out of Rush) entirely on their snap bid list. Back to Nina and GHI...

ABC had a great year at Rush. They got everyone on their bid list. DEF got everyone on their list except for one, who ended up high on two bid lists and went ABC. They now have an open spot, which is filled by their #9 candidate. That #9 candidate was on the GHI list...GHI didn't have so great a year, only 5 people preferenced them. No way are they going to make quota...

Or are they?

Remember that snap bid list? Let's say Nina was first, second, third, or fourth on GHI's list. She was the one who cut them, although they thought she was all right. GHI has a problem, they can't get quota based on rushees' pref cards. They are now eligible to fill to quota based on their snap bid list, the list of people who for whatever reason did not attend their pref party. GHI extends a snap bid to Nina, who is high on their snap bid list but did not preference them.

Some problems occur with this method because quota is based on the number of women finishing rush rather than the number of women who actually preference. That sucks. This is a "perfect-world" example.

I really hope this made sense, it took me a really long time to write.

THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS: EVEN IF YOU AS A RUSHEE CUT THE SORORITY YOU MAY STILL GET A BID, BUT IF THEY CUT YOU THEN FORGET IT.

To Lyrelyre: I believe your chapter made a mistake in not listing people who neither attended your pref party nor were cut from Rush. Everyone who completes Rush has a chance at getting a bid, some peoples' chances are better than others. The thing is, just because you didn't list a chapter on your pref card doesn't mean you can't get a bid from them. In the opposite direction, the rushees list the sororities to which they did not go back for the sororities' snap bid list, so they can do more bid matching.

I think I get it. The PNM can list more houses than prefs attended as long as they are houses that she regretted. If they released her then that's it.

I don't think it's a common practice on my campus to list girls who didn't attend your prefs, if it even happens at all. For the last 3 years we haven't even taken any girls from our 3rd (last) list-if we have a rough rush this will be good to know!

I don't think there are any restrictions on which chapters a PNM can list on her preference cards. Of course, if she wasn't invited to preference at a chapter or didn't attend preference, the chances that she'll be on a chapter's bid list are slim to none.

So even if you go to pref at ABC and DEF, you can list GHI and JK on your card. Just don't expect a bid.

The NPC "green book" just says "The PNM should be encouraged to list on the preference card the names of all fraternities from which she is willing to accept a bid to membership". Doesn't say anything about only listing fraternities where you attended preference.

It also says about bid lists ".. the name of every PNM who is invited and attends a fraternity's final preference party should appear on the first or second bid list". Doesn't say anything about not listing others to whom you would like to extend bids.

So I guess the bottom line is, if you're a PNM you can list any chapter you want on your preference card. And a chapter can list anyone on its bid list as long as those who attended the preference party are listed somewhere on the first or second list.

We weren't allowed to do that. There was no such thing as cutting with "regrets," you just cut. Once you cut a house there was no going back. I think it was because of the huge number of girls rushing compared to the number of houses. Our school was strange. Usually a big school has a big greek population but we only had 4%. We had over 500 girls rushing for 5 houses my freshman year because one of the nationals was new and wasn't actually taking part in formal rush. You had to list both of your pref houses on your pref card, it was just a matter of who you put first. Basically you could only get a bid from one of the two houses you pref'd no matter what. We didn't even really have spring rush or cob while I was there. A couple of chapters who needed numbers could do some snap bidding here and there but that was it.