Grad J~School, GRE and a Ivy League school
 

I looked through the older threads but they didn't have the info I'm looking for.

So, I'm THINKING about applying to grad school and looking into options. Columbia has a J-School that looks interesting. I'm trying to find average GRE scores for them. It seems that Columbia also has the distinction of being the 1st graduate J School in the US. It also seems to be the only Ivy with a journalism school.

I'm also looking at other J~Schools: Boston U, NYU, UC Berkeley, Syracuse, U of Missouri- Columbia, San Francisco State, San Jose State, and Howard U. though the list is quickly shrinking because I'm looking for specifically Photojournalism.

While writing this, I found answers to my ??'s online and so, in the grand scheme of things, I guess I'm just trying to decide if it really matters if I go.

What where your deciding factors in deciding to attend graduate school?

You know I say this with all due respect, seriously:

I normally would not advise that someone attends Journalism school. When I was in high school, actually when I did the HOBY program as a 15-year old, they had a panel of journalists who ALL said "You do not need to go to journalism school." They said to major in a liberal art or even some other subject we were interested in, become an expert, and have that be your "hook" as a journalist, say Economics or International Relations.

HOWEVER,

I think that because of your topsy-turvy path toward completing school, I think you would be well served getting advanced study in journalism, if not for the technical reasons and portfolio building, but because you truly need a strong cohort around you and strong connections in the field.

I advocate Howard so you can be close to me and because I know you would enjoy the HBCU experience again. :) And because I think it's about time Howard had a Pulitzer prize-winning photojournalist called NinjaPoodle.

Ditto to not needing to go to journalism school - got the same advice when I was at NYU that Rashid mentioned when I was in UG.

But, I know someone who did attend Columbia's program (I think they were originally interested in medicine) and now works for CNN doing some science reporting. So maybe it can help with connections.

I don't know much about photojournalism in particular. Have you considered CUNY for their graduate program? I dont think they offer much more in you field than Columbia does but name recognition wont hurt. It seems like CUNYs coursework is very NYC-specific. Don't know if that's a plus for you.

On another note, let me shout out my alma mater, NYU Gallatin - perhaps you can create your own concentration in photojournalism (between Tisch Photography and Imaging and CAS Journalism programs)?

Also, I can connect you to a Soror who did CUNYs program, if interested.

If you're considering Photo Journalism, give Western Kentucky University a look. Not sure that some of the schools you listed are really known for photo.

The only time your really need more degrees in journalism is if you want to teach at the collegiate level. You don't really need it for career advancement. But if you want the degree for intrinsic reasons, then go for it.

My undergrad major "required" obtaining an advanced degree, preferably all the way to the PhD and/or MD, or other career equivalent.

I was an undergrad biochemistry major. My advisor explained that for a person to have any serious career advancement in this field you must obtain an advanced terminal degree.

She basically said that as a biochem major if you stop at the BS then you spend your career washing lab dishes, and participating at a minor level in research.

If you move to the MS level, then you don't have to wash lab dishes, but you're still at a lower level in research.

So, to have a career that will allow for the maximum advancement and professional respect, then obtain an advanced terminal degree, such as a PhD, MD, or DVM.

For me personally, I obtained my PhD. Not only does this allow me to work at the collegiate level, I can also (and have) obtain research grants and get published.

Fortunately I was able to fund my graduate degrees by receiving graduate fellowships, grants and funding through my graduate advisors NIH grants.

My advice to you, NP, would be to:
1. listen to the advice already given above - it makes a lot of sense.
2. Look for any possible funding for your grad degree. Grad school tuition roughly costs about 2 - 3X that of undergrad tuition. Plus, you have to factor in living expenses, and since you are interested in photojouranlism, you will have to consider financing your own equipment. Be prepared to possibly have to get a part time job. Going to grad school is very expensive.


ETA: NP, have you considered getting a MFA (Master of Fine Arts)? This degree may give you a bit more career flexibility than just a photojournalism degree.

I ran the internship/entry-level hire program at my large media company for about five years, so I'm familiar with recruiting journalism grads (I've been at Columbia's J-school job fair every year, actually). I will say that I, along with every other hiring manager I know in the industry, strongly strongly prefer job experience over a J-school degree. Journalism is one of those things where practical experience really trumps education. I recruit from top J-schools (Columbia, Mizzou, Medill, etc.) and have consistently found that J-school grads are significantly less prepared to enter the industry than people who interned/worked an entry-level job instead.

I feel strongly that an advanced degree in journalism is a waste of money. The people I know and mentor who went to J-school had an equally difficult time finding jobs as people with a bachelor's degree -- often MORE difficult because employers assume they will be more expensive -- and are heavily burdened with debt that they're unable to pay off. I'm not at all one of those people who think journalism is dead, but the fact remains that jobs can be hard to find and often don't pay well, or aren't full-time.

Take with a grain of salt -- I don't know much at all about photojournalism, and I went to the best state school I could attend for free and then swore I'd never step foot in a classroom again…but I think you'd be better off with practical work experience.

It seems that (Soror) NP has worked in the field for a number of years, or least has done some related work as a hobby?

That's what was sitting in the back of my head as I pondered this whole thing. It's the game that's played that irritates me. Employers post jobs that ask for a degree but WE ALL KNOW it's what's in the PORTFOLIO that matters. .


Soror, When I finish, my undergrad degree will be a BFA in Documentary/ Photojournalism.

Thanks. I was considering NYC/east coast schools because the industry is there (LA & San Francisco out here in the West).

Thank you Soror!


Thank you. :cool:

Soror, not as a hobby. My work has been freelance. Last year I was hired to a local news paper but that fizzled out. I know networking is the way to go but I also wanted to see what other ways I could further my career.

Annnnnd 2 internships later... I have connections to CAL J-school that can write recs for me :) so, it was easy to narrow it down (I'm still trying to find a excuse to "do" Howard :p ).

Awesome. The graduate degree seems like something you are interested in pursuing. You have sought advice and mindfully considered your options. You can do this!

I appreciate that FSUZeta! :)

You know, even though I'm still scraping by to get my BFA, I've always thought it's a good idea to have not only a back-up plan, but a back-up to the back-up and a back-up after that. It's journalism. Options must be open.

And even though I've made a decision, I still want to visit Columbia. It's the first J-school.

And you should! Road trip to NYC!!!

Absolutely!

You wrote this post three months ago. What have you been up to since then? Have you graduated with your BFA?

Since I was last on GC three years ago, so the forum software tells me (I've been back, just haven't logged in), I went to J-school. I attended online because I didn't want to relocate due to having my primary care doctor and all my specialists for lupus set up. It's just a huge hassle to move. Anyway, I was doing really well in my digital journalism MA program and holding a 3.5 GPA and, literally, halfway through the program I had to stop. It was Christmas and bitter cold here, and I thought my asthma was acting up and so I went to the ER to get a breathing treatment. It wasn't my asthma; I had 3 pulmonary embolisms; so of course, I did a medical withdrawal from my classes.

During my recovery, I decided not to return to the program because during that time media organizations were hemorrhaging money, and in response they were letting journalists and photojournos go left and right. Then, the Dept. of Labor put out a jobs outlook for journalism in the negative double digits! That sealed it for me. I knew journalism already didn't pay a lot of money and I was okay with that, but then the added mass layoffs, hiring freezes, and jobs outlook from the DOL were just too much.

So, when I recovered and my doctor gave me a clean bill of health, I jumped back in undergrad for 1.5 academic years to get computer science and math prerequisites and applied to grad school for my MS in Computer Science. Online, of course. I got in and that's what I'm pursuing now, except that I'm sitting out the quarter that just started because I broke my ankle and tore some ligaments in it, and pretty much had to have my ankle surgically reconstructed. I'm in a rehab facility now. Doggone prednisone probably made my bones easier to break, but hey... stuff happens. :)

Do you have a resume website/portfolio? I don't have the resume website, although I could do one in no time. I don't have a photojournalism portfolio either, but that wouldn't take too much time to put up, either, because I have a web hosting account with plenty of space and the skills to do it. I do, however, have a Flickr account of some of my favorite photographs. They're a mix of genres, the only criterion was that they be a favorite of mine. Do you have anything like that? Do you want to exchange links?

Have you thought about launching an online publication? ;)

I'm a (forcibly) retired newspaper writer and I would NEVER advise someone to get a journalism degree now. Maybe broadcast journalism, maybe combined with a FICTION degree, because getting paid to truthfully report news is a fantasy. Better you know how to spin something....which is a creative writing degree.

Nope, haven't graduated with my BFA, yet.

Long story but the short of it is $$$$.

Because of my federal student loans, I cant work full time (they are in forbearance) so I do work part time when I can. I'm taking j-classes at the local Jr. College. I've been lucky to receive some aid to pay for classes. At the end of next semester, I'm looking to receive 2 journalism certificates and another A.A. but this one in Journalism. In the mean time, I'm applying to scholarships and building up my J-resume (if you're interested, I can send you my Linkedin). I have 24 units left in my BFA program and am hoping I can save and get enough scholarship $$$ to pay for it.




Sending good vibes your way and wishing you the best of health!

LOL! Yes to everything but the online publication. I am jotting ideas for book ideas though.

I'll IM you. Thanks for asking!

I'm glad you found another avenue to pursue outside of journalism. Yeah, the money sucks but I love it and would never consider getting out of it.:) I'm keeping my options open in terms of location an type of work, hence grad school.

Point well taken.

I'm interested in the conundrum. I was a journalism major and I think my BA has served me well because my general education serves me well as a travel agent. Aaand that's about the extent of how I use journalism. On another note, my dad was a photographer (if you've been to Lubbock you've seen his work) and when he was hiring photographers he preferred them to NOT have a degree in photography. He felt they focused too much on the art and not enough on the technical. He wanted them shooting (mostly portraits) the way he wanted them shot. So as some have said, getting more education is great, but tread gently about an abundance of education in photography specifically.

I will say.....I actually have an English degree with a minor in journalism, and the one time I went out hunting for a job in another area, the interest I got was due to the English degree. The job offer I got - an entry level job at an airline - was because they felt the English degree, combined with journalism, meant that I could communicate clearly.

But...my teacher friend who complains about not getting paid enough earned more her first year of teaching - 40 years ago - than I made in my top earning year as an editor with a then-prosperous newspaper.

You picked a hella expensive school for your BFA degree. Pleeease don't tell me you reached your $57,500 aggregate undergrad student loan limit and that's why you're not able to finish your BFA at your chosen institution? :(

If so, at this point, I think it's better that you get ANY (regionally accredited) bachelor's degree so you can get on with your career, because the BA/BS degree is the minimum job requirement. The certificates and stuff are nice, and will help, but the golden ticket to get past the gates is the BA/BS degree. You don't need another AA. You need that BA, and I'm going to PM you with some info that can help you get that done faster.

Oh, and if you've been taking classes at local community colleges your loans should've been switched from forbearance back to in-school deferment status. The difference is that you only get so much time for forbearance, but there is no time limit for in-school deferment, plus when your loans are in deferment the gov't pays the interest on your subsidized loans. I don't think that happens (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) when loans are in forbearance, and that ends up costing you more in the long run, because the interest is compounded and added to your principal. That's why forbearance should only be used when there are absolutely no deferment options available.

But, again, you said you're in school for a second AA degree. If the school has an accreditation recognized by CHEA.org, then your loans need to be switched to in-school deferment and BACK CREDITED to the date that you started those AA classes at that school, so that compounded interest can be reversed and the gov't can pay the subsidized interest part. Now, any UNsubsidized loans you took out means that the gov't will not pay the interest that accrues on them. That interest WILL be compounded and added to your principal. But, at least not ALL of the interest will be if you get your loans out of forbearance and back in in-school deferment.

Thank you! And, I'll do my part by no longer joking about how I'm accident prone and easy to get hurt, LOL! Nope, no more speaking that out of my mouth!

I have ideas for a documentary film project.

Spoken like a young, idealistic person. :) But, at some point, you're going to care about the money. You're going to look up one day and realize you're too danged old to have roommates (if you're still single), or to be living at home, and the money is going to matter. Or, other life circumstances are going to happen and force the money to matter. But, one way or the other, at some point, the money is going to matter. If they're trying to pay what you could make working at Aldi's or at some other non-skilled employment? The money matters. :cool:

Sorry for the delay. It's been hectic in my corner of the world. :)


The school is pricy but it is not the most expensive out there and in comparison to schools of it's kind, it's actually at the bottom of the list in price.
Also, If I had said my school was Harvard or some other truly EXPENSIVE college/uni, there would be no questioning of it. (Happens all of the time)

Yes, I'm maxed out. I live in San Francisco and without getting into too much detail, I had to work full time to pay off debts (which I did), so I did school part-time (why it's taken so long).

No, they are not nice, they are needed. Let me explain. I have 24 units (1 year) left in my BFA program and it makes no sense changing schools/major to get a B.A. That’s wasted time. I like the education I’ve received at AAU (which is accredited) but when I started there, I didn’t know I was going to change my focus from general photo to photo-j. When I did figure it out ( rather quickly) I had to make quick decisions and changes to make sure I was marketable in the field of journalism.

Credibility and proper training. The situation is that there are no traditional journalism (writing, copy editing, etc) courses offered at AAU, that’s partly why I 'm doing those classes at my jaycee (which has one of the top j programs out there) the other part is to keep the loans to in-school deferment status.
As far as credibility, AAU is not known for their docu-photo-j program as much as they are for their commercial and fine art programs. CCSF’s j-program is YEARS, actually DECADES old and has a strong history of great journalists who started there and a great program that stays relevant with the times. A certificate from there is worth more in the j-community than just a degree from AAU. (I know for a fact a lot of media outlets hate AAU) The AAU degree will be the minimum BA requirement. The certificates and AA and valid internships (and awards I’ve won) will help me get my foot in the door.

As an aside, trade organizations. Most (not all) have membership clauses that require you to be at a school that has a j-program. CCSF yes, AAU, no. Now I have membership with 3 j-orgs and will join a couple more that are relevant to what I’m doing/interested in. Options that lead to jobs etc. Options, options, options!


The community college served its purpose in several ways. At the end of the day, I have the j-skills and I’m damn great at them. ☺


I would appreciate that although I have a fast timeline. It’s $$ that I need to finish. I can barely pay for my jaycee fees. I’ve been lucky to receive the fee waiver offered by the school via the state

[Board of Governors (BOG) Fee Waiver. The Board of Governors (BOG)Fee Waiver is available specifically for students at California community colleges. The BOG Fee Waiver will waive your per-unit enrollment fee (currently $46) at any community college throughout the state.]
I’ve been aggressively applying to scholarships and am in the process of waiting to hear back. If you know of scholarships, grants etc. that you think might help, by all means, send them my way!



They did. Incorrect word choice, my bad.

No. That was a by-product of my returning. I didn't go back to get an additional AA but what I realized early on was how important the department really is in relation to the j-community (connections, jobs etc.) and the skill set I would receive, essentially how valuable the AA would be. The CCSF J-department is a strong feeder to the media outlets so I decided to go ahead and get whatever internships and additional skills I could. Info on the AA and two j certificates: Online Research and Editorial Design & Management --->https://www.ccsf.edu/en/educational-...m/degrees.html


I’m (cough) over 40. Like I said, at this stage, to me the $$ does not matter as much as my being able to shoot stories that have social impact. My lifestyle is backpack living so I don’t own a lot of possessions, property etc. I’m free to travel and I set my life up that way right before I paid off my debt (really bad $$ choices from my youth). The only things I have left as debt are my student loans and monthly expenses ie. food transportation, etc..

I understand what you’re saying though and it’s appreciated but please don’t discredit lifestyles that are not mainstream. I live in San Francisco. It’s beyond HELLA expensive here and if it weren’t for my family, my ass would be homeless. Period. Living with family or roommates, TRUST, there is no age limit to it and quite frankly, can be a great way to go (saving $$) Some are embarrassed by it, I am not.. I guarantee I’m not the only person in my living situation. Also, I’m not trying to buy a house or plop $$ into something that will tie me into staying in one location.

I’m in the process of simplifying a complicated situation, and actually, I’m getting there faster than expected. ☺

I hope you follow through with your ideas. Connect with people and make it happen.

Oh, and the grad school thing. I'd like to be able to have the opportunity to teach at some point. :)