Grammar, please!
 

I read a post that said, "my aunt was an alumni."

Fingernails on a blackboard! Please, everyone, remember:

alumnus -- masculine, singular
alumna -- feminine, singular
alumni -- masculine or mixed, plural
alumnae -- feminine, plural

AGDAlum

It took me so long to figure that out when I became an alumna. My biological sister had to correct me on that a few times.

Or if you can't remember just say someone was an "alum." Slang yes, but better slang than a sex change.

Alum is always my choice http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I've known that stuff for a while, as well I should after 3 years of Latin! One thing that I have problems with is that, because I took 3 years of Latin, I have a habit of pronouncing those words the way I was always taught to. For example, I pronounce -ae like "eye."

I hope you're honestly just joking about this. If this is really something that bothers you...well wow. Just remember that you don't get to see the person who wrote any message. Sometimes people are in a rush. In fact, some people are known to *gasp* make mistakes. It's nothing that should be brought up, as I'm sure they don't intentionally try to make such errors. Thanks, and I hope you have a fine day.

Thanks, Rudey...you hit the nail on the head. I was checking posts while I was on my lunch hour at work, and was typing rather quick. To be no the safe side, I usually do what shadokat said...use Alum. I'll try to be a little more conscious of this next time.

Rudey,
You are right, but if people don't know the difference between alumna/alumni etc. ADGAlum was giving them information so they would know. I attended an all female college and at reunions, graduations, etc. we occasionally have vendors trying to sell us stuff that reads "Spelman College Alumni". Sorry, but "mistake" or not, that is wrong! Needless to say, they do not sell much stuff when it's written that way!

Eclipse
Spelman College Alumna! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Fellow sister, you are right. Knowing the proper way to write and say alumnus/i/a/ae is important. Believe it or not I bet there are some Greeks who probably don't even know the difference. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Our Leadership Advisor stressed this the other day, especially since Convention is right around the corner. She made it clear that the improper use of the word can and may offend some alumnae.

Though the alumna/us/i/ae topic isn't something that's brought up every day, it's something that all Greeks should know. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif



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"I don't know the secret to success, but one sure way to failure is to try and please everyone."--Bill Cosby


Visit Alpha Gamma Delta-Delta Sigma chapter and help some sisters out!

OTW, are you in any of the PIX's of your chapter and which one are you? HAY YA! Heck the Beach must get NICE ALL OF THE YEAR!

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

LOL Tom, I'm not revealing myself until the pages are updated with better looking pics of me! The pages should be updated within the next few weeks. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif



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"I don't know the secret to success, but one sure way to failure is to try and please everyone."--Bill Cosby


Visit Alpha Gamma Delta-Delta Sigma chapter and help some sisters out!

It's haughty for anyone to assume that they've been designated as someone's teacher. We've all made mistakes, and Eclipse a forum is very different from a business. I just want you to see my point of view. Cool? It's just slightly insulting. Should I be just as annoying and go through the posts in this topic, and point out where everyone messed up on their grammar and spelling? I think I'll spend my time studying for international finance. Thanks again http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

PS Wahine, I don't think anyone appointed you to tell us what all greeks should know.

http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif I don't solicit anyone's permission when giving an opinion, Rudey dear. You should know that by now.

Every Greek should know the difference. I'd hate for any Greek to be so ignorant.

Rudey,

I don't think anyone was trying to be haughty, it's just a reminder, and education for the non-Greeks on the board. Plus if we make an effort to use the correct terminology, it'll help educate the silly businesses like the one Eclipse mentioned. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

It is kind of a pity that Latin's not taught much anymore - there are a lot of things in it, such as the root words, that help when learning vocabulary in English or any language.

I kind of like being arrogant . . . it keeps me warm at night.

I am not particularly tolerant of mistakes I make and see no reason to offer excuses for them, if I screw up I screw up and will correct the error . . . if pointed out to me.

And if I don't like the way I was corrected, or the way my error was pointed out . . . well I didn't have to screw up either.

So I believe people are perfectly correct to point out the correct way to do things, in this case the correct way to write the various versions of a graduate.

I like the word correct . . .

If we don't like to be corrected . . . well we could always choose to do it right . . . what a novel concept in America!

I don't think it's such a big deal, unless a NPC chapter's newletter reads ALUMNI Update, or something of that type.

I mean, really, did anyone pay attention to the New Member program and see that it was Alumnae and Alumna all over the material?

As for guys, I don't know all IFC terminology, so it doesn't matter to me, but I understand the frustration and think it was great to point it out.

I agree with you... after taking 3 years of Latin, I can read some French, Italian, and Spanish. I might not know every word, but I can get the basics. Latin can be pretty difficult to learn, but it really does help!

Hey 33girl! I take Latin, and I LOVE the language! When people learn that I'm taking Latin, their eyes pop up and they go, "WHAT?! You actually enjoy the language?!!!" http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif For some reason, Latin comes very easily to me. I love how logical the language is...you basically only need to understand the grammar, memorize the words, and that's it!! Maybe it's b/c I've taken Chinese, German, French, and Spanish before...but I love languages themselves http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif. Latin is my favorite class http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif.

It's just too bad that Latin isn't offered much anymore...my HS is the only HS in the city which offers Latin. Also--enrollment numbers are very low for Latin, so unfortunately, Latin may not be offered at my school anymore after a few years http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif.



[This message has been edited by newbie (edited June 04, 2001).]

I hate to see that something as simple as an error on my part as become such a long discussed topic. I thank everyone for pointing out the difference, and as I said before it was not that I did not know, it more that I was not mind was going faster than I could type.

I dug this up because I was wondering about the "alum" thing.

So alumnae is pronounced "alum-nay?"

If "alumni" refers to masculine or mixed plural, then why is it dead wrong when used for an all-female college? Wouldn't it be like one of those situations you could use the male form for, just to be safe? I mean, I know "alumnae" would be preferred...

Because if it's an all female college, there are no male graduates, therefore there are no alumni. If it is a college that USED to be all female and has admitted some males, they should go w/ "alumni" but Spelman hasn't done that.

Thanks for the info! As a new alumna ;) I've been trying to figure out which is correct - it was something we were never taught as new members, and I couldn't track down anyone who knew. I'll pass it along!

If you really want to split hairs, to be truly correct you must use
the "AE ligature" when referring to alumna in the plural.

Like this: Alumnæ

Thank you, 33girl. That seems simple enough. :)

Da, I dont care what the heck I am, I grad u ated!

I am a college gradute!:) :cool: ;)

Now if only people would use there, their, and they're correctly. :p ;)

Words are just communication.

As long as they get the point accross there's not much other use for them!

Sure, to and too get mixed up. If you're writing a law, it's important to know what is... is.

However, when you're posting on the internet, communicating the gist of what you want people to understand is all that is necessary.

Grammar and spelling just help credibility with your readers. Sometimes you have to look past that. We don't ALL take the time to go back and edit our messages for content and punctuation.

You said it, Cream!
The other thing that drives me nuts is when people misuse "of" for "have".

Example:
He should of done that! :rolleyes:

That's how most (if not all) Canadians pronounce it.

I think the difference in alumnus/alumna/alumni/alumnae is a very valid thing to post considering how often the words are interchanged.

As an example: a few years ago, one of the girls in charge of invitations for Alumnae Weekend okayed the invitation draft that read "Alumni Weekend" and literally hundreds of invitations were printed incorrectly. When the error was discovered, it ended up costing the chapter extra money to have the invitations printed up correctly. That money could have been saved if the person proofing the invitations had been aware of the difference in "alumnae" and "alumni."

I hope this thread helps to clarify things a little. :) I know that I was never taught the difference when I was a pledge and would have been totally in the dark if it wasn't for 3 years of Latin! :D

As for your first question:

In Latin, "alumni" is pronounced alum-nee (as in that joint in the middle of your leg), and "alumnæ" is pronounced "alum-neye" (as in the organ with which you are reading this post ;) ). American English pronunciation typically reverses the Latin pronunciation, so that alumni = alum-neye and "alumnæ" = alum-nee.

As for your second question, alumni is dead wrong for an all-female college because it is the masculine plural -- it is only properly used when refering to a group of male graduates or a group of male and female graduates.

All male graduates = alumni.
All female graduates = alumnæ.
A group of 9,999 female graduates and one male graduate = alumni (because it is mixed male and female, however slightly).

The word "alumnus" means "foster son" in Latin (literally someone that one feeds or supports); by extension it means pupil. As the feminine version of alumnus, alumna means "foster daughter." The idea is that a graduate is a foster or adopted child of Alma Mater ("dear Mother"). That's why "alumni" is inappropriate for an all-female college or a sorority -- graduated students/members are "daughters," not "sons."

Spelling too
 

I can see how incorrect grammar can get to you. Incorrect spelling bothers the heck out of me. I know I have been guilty of it especially when I'm tired, but it still bugs me.:)

It's not what you say but how you say it.

A few well placed mispellings can ruin an otherwise excellent message.

Of course people SHOULD attempt to look past that to the root meaning of the message which is ultimately what is important.

People's opinion of you (especially here) is formed based on how you write... So write well!

I have been watching this with a smile. For those of us who joyfully (or not) suffered through Latin at School or College, you will remember that Latin pronunciation is never a simple thing and its hard to say who is right or wrong unless it is for use of Latin in a very specific situation. There are several "right" pronounciations among which should be counted:
Ecclesiastical Latin (Church Latin)
Classical Latin
Medievil Latin
Oxford Latin
Legal Latin
All of these vary widely in their pronounciation and all can be viewed as correct within certain usages. Remember that in British schoolboy Latin (essentially classical Latin) Julius Caesar's great boast "I came, I saw, I conquered", "Veni, Vedi, Vici", is pronounced "weenie, weedie, weekie"!!! The great orator Cicero is classically pronounced 'Kee Ka Row"!
And who can forget in "De Bello Galico" (Carsar's Gallic Wars) that Publius Flavius, Preator of the XIIth. Legion, before joining battle bolted to his tent where he thrust his glaudius into a vagina! You will understand of course that this meant he put his sword into a scabbard so he could carry it into the fight.
For purposes of this thread, it seems to me that if we remember to use the masc. form for male alumni, and the fem. form for female alumnae it really doesn't matter too much which of the several "right" pronounciations we choose to use.
Perhaps the opening line of Cicero's Cataline Oration might be appropriate here, "Quo usque tandem, Cateline..." which can be translated as "Hay Cataline, how far do you want to push this?"

AVE ATQUE VALE!!!

BOOOOO!

How do you expect me to respond!

I use Earpisms and Earpadotes and bad typing skills to profess my missives!

While some people including myself cannot totally understand my thougts, you too will get old and your mind may work but wont send the electrical impulses to the fingers!

I am a purist, give me a # 10 pencile and a Big Cheif Tablet, only way to fly!

"If wishes were chicken shit, I would have a Chicken Coop Full!":D

Awww Tom...
 

Awww Tom,

We understand what you say:) You're one of the best on the board;)

So true, and it gets even more complicated. pronunciation of Church Latin (and, I would suspect, other forms of Latin) varies from country to country. In English-speaking countries, Church Latin has a noticable Italian accent, while in Germany, some rules of German pronuncation apply. Go figure.

Teaching this should be done in each and every one of our chapters new member ed. programs. (learn it early cause you'll use it the rest of your life.)

No we don't have a the same rituals, but we do have this in common.

It could be titled "A lesson in keeping your foot out of your mouth."

The wrong use of these terms grates on me too.

Just do what I do- say graduate and graduates. I'll never understand why people insist on using Latin plurals in English- it's technically allowed, though my grammar book says it's not necessary (words like alumnuses are perfectly correct). Using a Latin 2nd declension nominative plural is about as silly as trying to use Old English in everyday language- eom ic rihte?

In my chapter's NME, they do learn it! But, who knows if they remember it?!?