GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   Greek Life (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=24)
-   -   Sorority House Security (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=141722)

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 01:02 PM

Sorority House Security
 
Given the tragedy that might have happened had anyone at the Alpha Phi house in UC-SB opened the door, I've been thinking about security procedures at chapter houses. My chapter is in the process of building a new house - I've asked about security but haven't yet received an answer. SO -
how is security handled at your house? Does it work, does it need improvement, what doesn't work? Thanks!

HQWest 05-26-2014 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2275660)
Given the tragedy that might have happened had anyone at the Alpha Phi house in UC-SB opened the door, I've been thinking about security procedures at chapter houses. My chapter is in the process of building a new house - I've asked about security but haven't yet received an answer. SO -
how is security handled at your house? Does it work, does it need improvement, what doesn't work? Thanks!

Its a catch 22. You need to take it up with your executive offices. We can't tell you what the flaws in our security are - it would be a security risk!

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 01:17 PM

Hadn't thought of that - okay, let me rephrase it. How do you control access to the house? I read that the Alpha Phi house had a keypad entry - but if anyone had opened the door . . . so keypad? Magnetic stripe on an id? What are the rules for opening the door?

eta - I wasn't thinking of flaws in security as much I was thinking of a system that was too cumbersome and then was ditched.

Titchou 05-26-2014 01:30 PM

Ever since the tragedy at the Chi O House at FSU (Ted Bundy), I think all groups are on 24/7 lockdown. There are various types: key, ID card swipe,PIN pad, handprint, fingerprint, (those two don't work real well in colder climes where the pad is outdoors), fobs, etc. They all work equally well so long as the women observe the rules: don't loan your key/card/fob/etc to anyone, don't give the combination out, don't prop the door open (many have alarms that sound if help open longer than so many seconds), don't open the door to people you don't know or aren't expecting. The women at Alpha Phi were obviously well trained and observant. They saved a lot of lives. I hope all our women will take a lesson from this.

AGDee 05-26-2014 01:34 PM

I can speak fairly generally since I am not involved with a particular chapter. Keypads are pretty typical in my experience. Women are warned of the risks of opening the door to those they don't know. Honestly, in this day and age, knowing how college kids are, they'd probably text that they were there before they knocked on the door hoping someone would answer. I'm not even sure they'd hear a knock on the door if nobody was in the immediate vicinity of the door. I've also seen intercom systems, like in apartments, where they can buzz up to a particular room and that resident can come down and get someone who was visiting.

All entry points are typically kept locked but, just as with all of our residences, there are other ways to get in.

cinder1965 05-26-2014 01:36 PM

I am on the corporation board of my chapter at Purdue. We have a card swipe system. We carefully monitor what keys are given and who has them. All the doors and windows on the first floor are locked from the inside and alarmed if anyone tries to get in from the outside. But as someone said above, this system depends on the girls not giving out their key cards and not letting anyone in the front door, not propping open doors/windows, etc. If there is one thing about being on the corporation board that worries me a lot is the safety of the girls. I have nightmares of someone sneaking in or coming in the house under the ruse they are there to see a sister. So heartbreaking about the tragedy at UCSB...thank goodness those girls didn't open the door.

Titchou 05-26-2014 01:51 PM

^^^^ Oh yeah! When I was Fraternity Director of Housing, I saw so many things that bothered me. Things we never thought about when we were in school and no huge task. Houses that have balconies that anyone could climb up on. How many kitchen doors have a metal canopy over them and a window above? We had someone access a house that way in the 80's! With a weapon! And that was 30 years ago. scary....

AGDee 05-26-2014 01:56 PM

As with Information Security, the weakest link is always the people. I'll be curious whether those women of Alpha Phi didn't hear the door, consciously decided not to answer it, or what.

AZTheta 05-26-2014 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee (Post 2275687)
As with Information Security, the weakest link is always the people.

THIS.

There are NO assumptions about what happened when Rodgers knocked on the door at Alpha Phi (I'm willing to bet no one bothered to answer the door, which was a lucky break for them, but not for those two Tri Deltas who were simply walking past the house at that time). NO assumptions about anything anyone has posted regarding security and how the actives are supposed to behave, or are going to behave.

Last August a transient male was "bothering" sorority women who were walking along the street. He followed two of our members home. He rang the front doorbell and when an active answered it, he walked right in to the facility. This is a matter of public record. Someone has the brains to call 911 and the police came and arrested him. I had an absolute meltdown when I learned about it IN THE NEWSPAPER.

I won't discuss security measures here, or even how actives access the house. Like Titchou, so many things bother me; I've lost countless hours of sleep over this issue of security.

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 02:48 PM

Thanks, y'all. Our HCB will be discussing it - I know that any system is only as good as those who follow procedures. I also know that it is impossible to be totally secure, but we certainly have to try and be proactive. I'd hope that this tragedy engenders a discussion for all our groups. It's easy to think "Oh, something like that could never happen HERE", but as we all know, it can.

clemsongirl 05-26-2014 03:26 PM

I can speak for all of Clemson's on-campus Greek Life and on-campus housing in general-we have school ID cards that are programmed to scan and open the door for whatever building the student is given access to. Several buildings also require a second scan within the building to get into the elevator or stairs.

The issue, as has been stated above, is students letting people in who shouldn't be allowed in the building. We haven't had any incidents as serious as this one, thankfully, but there's been several incidents of fraternity men stealing composites or irate parents looking for their children when they aren't allowed in the building unescorted.

MaryPoppins 05-26-2014 03:28 PM

A chapter also doesn't want to be the only facility with say a card swipe system on campus. If they are then a found card leads back to only one facility. Aside from the actual security system, have well maintained doors and door latches are also important. If a door doesn't shut entirely without a battle, then the system is defeated before it can work.

Just interested 05-26-2014 03:31 PM

As HC chairman for our chapter at Texas A&M, you can bet our board will be reviewing procedures with our chapter after this incident in California. SAFETY is our number one concern and as someone has already said, the weakest link are people.
Those girls were so lucky. I can only imagine what would have happened.

BAckbOwlsgIrl 05-26-2014 04:00 PM

Secured areas
 
As much as I love these beautiful houses, I wonder if having a secured foyer for visitors might be an option. It would be similar to what the dorms have where sisters come down from upstairs to greet visitors before letting them in the rest of the house such as dining areas, etc.
It might not be the most glamorous option, but, the in lieu of recent events, the alternative is must worse.

Titchou 05-26-2014 04:38 PM

You still have the basic problem - women not observing the rules. Not to mention the cost, dealing with the FIre Marshall, having someone work the door, etc, etc, etc. Even on dorms, people can get around the security for the same reasons...

LAblondeGPhi 05-26-2014 05:49 PM

Our chapter at the University of Southern California has (or had, as of 2006) a security guard with his own small office next to the front door. I recall that it seemed to be typical for most chapters at USC, but I don't remember if someone was there 24 hours a day or just certain times.

And as far as Alpha Phi, I would bet that it was dumb luck that someone wasn't around to answer the door, rather than any kind of training.

Titchou 05-26-2014 05:59 PM

Many chapters have overnight security guards these days. Very common.

excelblue 05-26-2014 06:31 PM

There is nothing that replaces physical security.

That said, in terms of key cards, I'm surprised that most houses aren't using more secure entry systems given the usage patterns.

The ideal scenario, IMO, would be something among the following:
1.) There's a keycard to access any door. There are no accessible ground-floor windows.
2.) An access log is kept, which can be cross-referenced to security feeds.
3.) Keycards can be individually disabled if lost/stolen.

This way, anytime there's an incident of unauthorized access, it'd be possible to trace who is responsible and address the issue. The same applies to doors that are left open, etc.

Where I went to college, the student ID doubled as an RFID keycard. It was both light and convenient.

Titchou 05-26-2014 06:40 PM

Those are some of the reasons most places use the key cards. However, it is still encumbent on the members to secure their cards because:

1) They lose it but fail to tell anyone.
2) They hand it to their boyfriend to open the door why they get their stuff out of the car (I actually walked up on this one once!)
3) It doesn't take into account opening the door from the inside...

AZTheta 05-26-2014 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excelblue (Post 2275718)
There is nothing that replaces physical security.

That said, in terms of key cards, I'm surprised that most houses aren't using more secure entry systems given the usage patterns.

The ideal scenario, IMO, would be something among the following:
1.) There's a keycard to access any door. There are no accessible ground-floor windows.
2.) An access log is kept, which can be cross-referenced to security feeds.
3.) Keycards can be individually disabled if lost/stolen.

This way, anytime there's an incident of unauthorized access, it'd be possible to trace who is responsible and address the issue. The same applies to doors that are left open, etc.

Where I went to college, the student ID doubled as an RFID keycard. It was both light and convenient.

RE: the bolded. No ground floor windows - interesting design concept. And doors that are left open - how do you control for doors that are propped open from the inside or opened from the inside? Or do you think a keycard should be used to open any door in either direction (ingress and egress)?

What you are proposing sounds like a prison.

The human element is the bottom line, as Dee, Titchou, others and myself have stated.

navane 05-26-2014 07:20 PM

I speak from experience when I say that technology is easily thwarted by members who take shortcuts (eg. propping the doors open).

DeltaBetaBaby 05-26-2014 07:29 PM

A big problem when I was in school was women using key rings with the letters on them, and then losing your keys. Now someone has your key and an obvious indicator of where you live. The same would go for key cards, if you use an ID holder with letters on it, which were common in my day.

33girl 05-26-2014 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby (Post 2275725)
A big problem when I was in school was women using key rings with the letters on them, and then losing your keys. Now someone has your key and an obvious indicator of where you live. The same would go for key cards, if you use an ID holder with letters on it, which were common in my day.

I remember a few years after I graduated girls being warned against this too...and this is in small town usa.

excelblue 05-26-2014 08:02 PM

Of course there's the social aspect.

The idea is that if a door was propped open, you'd know when it was propped open so you can hold the person who propped it open accountable. That's what the security camera is for. The social policies of not holding doors open can then be effected.

Ground-floor windows: that's easily solved with a bug screen of some sort or windows that don't open wide enough for humans to fit through.

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 08:07 PM

Ground floor windows need to be wired so if they are opened/broken an alarm goes off - I think that's pretty standard. That's what I had in my (personal) house.

MysticCat 05-26-2014 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2275731)
Ground floor windows need to be wired so if they are opened/broken an alarm goes off - I think that's pretty standard. That's what I had in my (personal) house.

That's what assumed excelblue meant when she said no accessible downstairs windows—windows that can't be opened, that are high enough off the ground they can't be reached from the ground, that have some kind of landscaping barrier in front of them, and/or that are wired for an alarm.

Titchou 05-26-2014 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2275732)
That's what assumed excelblue meant when she said no accessible downstairs windows—windows that can't be opened, that are high enough off the ground they can't be reached from the ground, that have some kind of landscaping barrier in front of them, and/or that are wired for an alarm.

Ah but you don't want so much a of landscape barrier that someone can hide in them!

aephi alum 05-26-2014 08:30 PM

When I was in college, the dorm system transitioned from physical keys (every resident was issued two keys, one for the dorm building and one for his/her room) to card readers at each dorm entrance (you swiped your student ID to get in) and a physical key for your room.

FSILG (fraternity, sorority, and independent living group) houses typically had a combination lock to get into the house. Non-resident members were given the combination, as committee meetings frequently took place in the house, and non-resident members were welcome to hang out in the house, participate in study groups, etc. Non-members had to ring the bell or knock, and explain to the person who answered the door whom they were there to visit and why.

In all cases, we were warned about "ghosting" (you swipe your keycard and someone you don't know follows you in).

MysticCat 05-26-2014 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titchou (Post 2275735)
Ah but you don't want so much a of landscape barrier that someone can hide in them!

True.

ggforever 05-26-2014 08:41 PM

Two years ago, we went to fingerprint entries and we have security cameras covering all entries as well as perimeter shots of the house. We had fobs before but girls would lose keys with the green letters on them. It was scary.

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 08:42 PM

Bougainvillea!
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=boug...gdii=_&imgrc=_

Titchou 05-26-2014 09:00 PM

Bougainvilla is a gorgeous plant. Unfortunately, it only grows in certain areas...and can be very tricky even there. Note my screen name is a Cajun term of endearment....there's bougainvilla all over Louisiana....

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 09:01 PM

Well, in San Marcos (TX), we could do cacti, but they wouldn't go with the architecture.

Titchou 05-26-2014 09:37 PM

Not at ours there either!

AZTheta 05-26-2014 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 2275732)
That's what assumed excelblue meant when she said no accessible downstairs windows—windows that can't be opened, that are high enough off the ground they can't be reached from the ground, that have some kind of landscaping barrier in front of them, and/or that are wired for an alarm.

excelblue is, I believe, a HE. Right?

You guys need to understand that the human element is what is the issue. All the security cameras in the world would not have protected Alpha Phi. Trust me on this. I could write a dissertation on security issues. Nothing is fail-safe.

ETA: we have cacti. We have safety ironwork on the ground floor windows. Anyway...

SWTXBelle 05-26-2014 10:30 PM

I don't think anyone is arguing there is a "fail safe" security system. It is still incumbent on HCBs to put the best possible security systems in place - and follow up with education for the actives.

Let's hope actives are more attentive to security concerns after all the media coverage of this tragedy.

DubaiSis 05-26-2014 11:35 PM

Yes, barrier #1 to good security is that college kids are 10 foot tall and bullet proof. Back in the day we had a coded entry to the front door with the back door locked except if opened from the inside. And people/guys got in all the time. Normally for something as innocent as "stealing" our composite or the wrestling team on an ancient ritual panty raid. But the fact is if they could get in, someone wanting to rob the house or worse would have little problem. But explaining that to the girls was nearly a lost cause. Hopefully this sort of devastation will serve to remind the girls for a few minutes that they aren't immune to crime or devastation.

MysticCat 05-26-2014 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZTheta (Post 2275756)
excelblue is, I believe, a HE. Right?

Duh. I knew that. :o

Quote:

You guys need to understand that the human element is what is the issue. All the security cameras in the world would not have protected Alpha Phi. Trust me on this. I could write a dissertation on security issues. Nothing is fail-safe.
What Belle said. I don't think anyone is aiming for fail safe—that is indeed unrealistic if a house is to be at all livable.

AGDee 05-26-2014 11:50 PM

The answer to propping doors is having an alarm if the door is open for too long. We had these at my last place of employment- key swipe to get in and then an alarm if it was open too long. It was interesting when we were all returning from a staff meeting in a conference room on another floor or if a large group went to lunch together and all came back. The first person would swipe and then people would try to follow very quickly to avoid the alarm!

Fire escapes are another area to be concerned. I know of at least one incident where an intruder came in from the fire escape to an un-alarmed window on the third floor. Don't forget to alarm those fire escape windows/doors also.

navane 05-27-2014 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle (Post 2275757)
Let's hope actives are more attentive to security concerns after all the media coverage of this tragedy.


Sadly, I don't think they will. The sorority house two doors down has had intruders walk in through the door and climb through the windows. I stressed the importance of house security to my girls but they still prop the doors open and run cables through the windows.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.