White or Homosexual members
 

I know that this is a serious question but let me ask all orgs, How do you feel about White or even Homosexual people joining your organization?

Premature
 

I just found out that this question was already raised. I had to go back 16 pages to find it. So let me revise my question. Can YOU see yourself gripping, Stepping or locking up with someone who is either non african american or homosexual. If so, do you think it affects the image of your organization in the eyes of outsiders?

My thoughts...
 

Dexter,

That's a VERY good question. This might cause some serious tension, but, I feel that discriminating against non-blacks would be foul. First that person needs to understand that they're getting involved with a predominately black organization that does most of its public service activities in the black community. I know several caucassion sorors who are OWT, ya heard!! Someone who chooses to be homosexual, well, I don't know about all that. Personally, I feel that someone's sexual preference doesn't reflect how productive they would be in the organization, so I don't think I would discriminate in that area either. But it's hard to talk on that without stepping on any toes. But I know MANY sorors that hold high positions that are lesbians. Ultimately, we can't barr them from the organization. That also doesn't mean that I agree with their sexual preference, but we can't say "NO, because you're gay/lesbian." That's another form of discrimination. I'm sure fraternities might have a difference of opinion on that one!

That's all! :)

Re: Premature
 

REGARDING HOMOSEXUALS: I'm not knocking it for those who are, it's your business what your preference(s) is/are. But the thing we have to realize is HOW many homosexuals have we gripped, hugged, stepped, or locked up with and don't even know it? Let me break it down even more, what about our friends that we have done all of that with who are gay/lesbian and we don't even know about it? Will that affect our image of them? :confused: (that's another subject...lol) Shucks, the leaders of our organizations could be gay/lesbian, who knows?


RE: Non- African Americans: I have seen non-AA sorors, but have never personally met one. I know they exist. I'm not even gonna sit here and lie, yeah, it's kind of strange hearing about it. Coming from a HBCU where it was basically unheard of non-AA (basically WHITE) coming through the organizations, it is a hard pill to swallow because I'm not familiar with that, not even on the graduate level. But, that's something I must do, if I ever come into contact with a NON-AA Soror. We are apart of the same organization, we share common goals as far as the organization is concerned, so I must accept the fact that she is a Soror and let it be that.

IMHO, of course...:D

I haven't had the experience of running into a gay soror (to my knowledge), but I can't see how I would really care. I just don't care, you uphold your pledge, you cool with me. I have bigger fish to fry, lol.

Now, I will admit, the non-AA members, that used to just confuse me, because I couldn't understand WHY they would want to join. But then, I don't know these women or where they grew up or anything. So how can I question their motives? I did meet a White soror at our regional conference this past spring, and I was just so taken aback by the whole thing at first. See, I can sit here and talk a bunch of mess of how a soror is a soror is a soror, but when I saw her (her whole chapter really, they all looked iffy), I was like, "Ummm." And that's all I could really say to myself. However, before the conference was over, I introduced myself to her and gave her a hug, because she IS my soror, and I bet she has a hard time a lot, so I wanted to kinda make her feel welcome.

Why a soror being a lesbian wouldn't bother me, but this soror being White did, I don't really know. Maybe because I have no beef with homosexuals. I do tend to have beef with White people from time to time, but I'm sure y'all can understand that.

In my sincere and humble opinion...
 

HELL NO!!!

I've found in recent years, that the best way to get bros. to agree with you is to quote the history book:

"To the negroes who marched onward and upward toward the light, this volume is respectfully dedicated."

(For those of you that don't know, that was the dedication which has been modified since the integration of the frat.)

And for the homothug issue, in what way does homosexuality fulfill "manly deeds." I know the love for all MANkind part wouldn't be hard:D

It's funny how on the general boards alot of HBGLO members are so anti racisist but post a topic like this and the real truth comes out.....

My thoughts...
 

I knew the response would be different for a male's perspective.

That's all I wanted to say! ;)

For the record, BGLO do not - well - Should Not practice Discrimination!!! - - - race and sexual preference "Should Not" be an issue. I know gay Brothers and have even visited a white Brother (I thought he was just very light when we first met and did not realize until after I saw the pictures of his parents on his wall that he was white - lol)!

I think a member of Delta Sigma Theta responded in previous thread best "What does sexuality or race have to do with community service"


We have hashed this very sensitive issue before. In fact, I have already received requests to close the thread. However, I encourage those that want to respond to DRAW IT MILD and keep in mind that as a member of your organization others make opinions about your organizaiton based on your posts.

Post Script - We all have non-blacks, gays and lesbians in our organization.

Oh well it sucks how life is like that.

Putting aside personal feelings, let me say that there isn't any racist comments posted on this topic. If you aren't of AA then you cannot relate to the struggles of the founders of these BGLOs. It is for that reason why some people feel uneasy when they see non AA members. It's not that they don't accept them, but it's ackward at first. I KNOW a white brother of A PHI A personally. His name is Jamie and he is one of the most intelligent and hard working guys in the frat. He PLEDGED at the University of Central Florida. Not is he more BROTHERLY than alot of AA members in the frat, but he steps alot better than alot of bruhs that are in my chapter (AND WE WON 28 STEP SHOWS). So don't take it as racism, try to see it as an obstacle that has to be dealt with!

P.S. For those who want this thread closed, there is a simple solution...DON'T READ IT !!!!

Clapping for Frat

TOA, what's your name and number?

My Bruh said it best!
 

Dayum Fatto! You always beat me to the keys! You said it best bruh!

Puttin' aside subjective feelings for each organization, Yall got to understand the sacrifices made by The Founders of Alpha. As with everybody else's founders, our founders took much care into defining our membership, our purpose(s), and everything else about us. They were extremely concerned with the plight of African-American men, who were perceived by the wider society AND OUR GOVERNMENT as the most dangerous population on American soil. The government suspected our Fraternity as being communist and rebel-rousers; and they monitored the movement of our founders for years. Due to the timeliness of the founding of Alpha, and the purpose of Alpha, I personally disagreed with the integration of my fraternity. And I personally cannot accept homosexuals into my fraternity. We were founded on the principles of MANHOOD, as one of my bruhs so eloquently put it; and that has NOTHING TO DO WITH HOMOSEXUALITY.

I wish the best for all men. I would hope that homosexual men and white men seeking fraternity life would have the where-with-all to start their own fraternity. And I would wish them the best.

But Alpha Phi Alpha was THE FIRST for African-American men ONLY; and due to its historical value to our people, I think it shoulda been exempt from all of the intergration laws, etc.

Re: My Bruh said it best!
 

I think that you are referring to me.

Very well said, Frat. Skee-Phi!

Fatto
 

Dex,

You got some good shyt; but this time I was givin' Fatto props for his comments. He said it the way I was gon say it.

How you been man?

Funny how on general boards a lot of GLO members can't discuss ANY issues of race without all the name calling and finger-pointing, :eek: but post a topic like this in here and you'll find people not only talking openly and honestly, but also talking about solutions as well? :D

Re: Fatto
 

Well I still take credit for his comments too! I was his dean and he is molded into the image that I formed !:D

Right!

Not only that, peeps try to sweep chit under the rug as if it doesn't exist. That's the problem!

From what I see, only a few members have posted, not ALOT.

Shucks, I don't have a problem calling a spade a spade! I call it as I see it! :D That's why I don't post or visit over yonder too often. Everyone can't handle everything.

good shyt bruh!
 

You made a good one betta!

'06!!!!!!!

In case yall get tired of hearing sugar coated responses to "touchy" topics, just ask me. I never learned how to bite my tongue. Where I come from we encourage strong minded individuals. The problems do and will continue to exist in MD where I PLEDGED, but we don't take that ish to lightly.

P.S. Chuck, please don't hate! Dom P!

it's been a minute since i've posted. i know jamie...that is one of the coolest white boys i know and he could step his ASS off. the Alpha's down there did a lot in the community and i remember he was president of the chapter. i know he got so much play from the sisters. the last time i saw him was like four years ago at a step show at UCF. he represented well.

IMAGE is IMPORTANT
 

Everyone has their own moral values. For many, homosexuality is immoral and negative. I see it as such, and Anti-Alpha. If I saw a sweet brother tryning to get in, I'd vote him down because I see gayness as negative. Some would ask me to check myself in the mirror...I know I sin and do negative anti-Alpha things in my life. But if I displayed these sins publicly, I would have gotten voted down too!For example, If I was a thuggish bully and pushed people around. That behavior is negative and anti-Alpha. Thus I probably would NOT get voted in. Likewise homosexual behavior is negative and anti-Alpha resulting in gays getting voted down too.

I think it makes us look bad. I know that if I wanted to pledge a chapter, and it was full of homosexuals, that would turn me off. Nobody wants to be associated with homosexuals. Birds of a feather flock together and I don't want that stigma on me or my frat. The homosexual stigma is NEGATIVE and nobody wants that image for their group. Image is important for recruiting the type of people you want in your frat.

Just cause you're a fag doesn't mean that you can't do positive work in the frat. But the same can be said of a pedaphile or someone who likes crushing animals. In my opinion, homosexuals are in the same category.

Homosexuality is a multidementional issue. Its political, moral, freedom of choice, etc. I can't judge anybody. But we DO judge people when making membership selections and are EXPECTED to. ALPHA doesn't seek negativity. Homosexuality is negative (in my opinion and that of many others). Homosexuals have founded many organizations and support groups...they should create their own frats and sororities and stop trying to force themselves into ours.

As far as Whites in the frat....I don't get it. I think it's suspect. Not all white people are bad, but BGLOs aren't just Fraternal Organizations. We have deep historical roots tied into the struggle of African Americans.
We were founded to uplift AA's SPECIFICALLY
(and ALL mankind coincidentally). My personal belief is the integration of our orgs was a "political" thing. Its hard to believe that a white person would be so committed to the uplifting of our communities SPECIFICALLY. We don't plan programs for white people, or target white people for our service. If they so happen to get served...cool. We're trying to save our own. I feel white people may try and DILLUTE our focus and try and use our resources to help "EVERYBODY". We as black folks need our resources dedicated SOLELY TO US! Its human nature to look after your own. If I was in a white organization, I would be thinking of how to use their resources to help my people. I find it hard to imagine that a white person would exclude their OWN people to help ours. I don't want our programs dilluted.
A white person has to have that understanding. If they are willing to submit to serving mostly Blacks, (when using frat time/resources)...then fine...you can join. But don't come in my org trying to "whitewash" it and waste the little resources we have "spreading the love". It sounds prejudice (not racist) but thats REAL. That is my only concern w/white folks in the frat.

Re: Premature
 

To get straight to the point I would vote No in every case of a white women trying to join. It may sound bad to some, but I'm being honest. I don't care how down you are, active in the community, hang with how many black folks, etc. My vote is NO.

As far as Gays, not sure but being really honest I would probably vote NO also.

Yeah that's him. He got married a couple of years ago to a sister from my neck of the woods (D.C. Metro UHRRREAHH). But like I said he is one of the most brotherly people I know.

I don't have a problem with non AA or homosexuals being members of our organizations. As long as they are working for the org and put their heart and soul into it and believe in what their chosen org stands for. Historically there has always been some non AA people fighting for justice and civil rights right alongside AA people. I'm sure there were homosexuals fighting alongside us as well. Someone mentioned that a homosexual doesn't meet the qualifications of manhood, well that depends on what your definition of manhood is. Someone's sexuality should have no bearing on whether or not they are a real man or possess manhood. Certainly I would never label a heterosexual man a real man just because of his bedroom practices or based on how many notches he has on his belt. There are plenty of homosexual men who handle their business, give back to the community, take care of their families, are god fearing and loving individuals..this in my idea are some of the ideals that would make one a "Real" man.

You know guys, I never would have seen or even looked at this thread until the "new" Greek Chat came out and we could all see the titles of all the threads. How do you think seeing this thread crop up all the time affects the whites on this board? Can you imagine what would happen if someone started a "Would you want blacks or homosexuals in your group?" thread? All hell would break loose.

It's worse for members who consider homosexuality to be a sexual deviation because it sounds like "Would you want whites or pedophiles (or rapists or whatever) in your group?"

Yes, I am triracial and yes, I am hurt by this thread.

it is interesting that carnation is "hurt" by this thread. I guess Carnation has associated white and homosexual as representing the same type of issues in BGLO's. Homosexuals represent a moral delimma in the BGLO's considering that all orgs. in the Pan claim to have been founded upon Christian principles which teach against the righteousness of homosexuality, therefore causing a conflict with an unapologetic homosexual's place in the org. While whites represent a social dilemma, seeing as though many of the orgs. were founded admid intense overt and covert racism and pride themselves on being champions of the causes of black people in the United States (some of which may fly directly in the face of inter-racial unity like mentoring only black boys,reparations etc.) and combatting that oppression, something that many whites may not understand. I do not think that there should be in any way an insinuation that the BGLO's are associating all whites with homosexuality or pedophilia. I think this is a healthy thread, espcially seeing that these are very important isues in the BGLO's and need to be discussed more.
Just my 06 sense worth.
Blackwatch!!!

I agree wit cha Blackwatch. Carnation please refer to the post at the top of page 2.

I know that no one has said that y'all associate all whites with homosexuality. What I'm saying is that the title of the thread insinuates that whites and homosexuals are groups that are bottom-of-the-barrel. Also, some whites have major problems with homosexuals in their organizations, others don't, so no one should generalize and say that homosexuality is more acceptable in HWGLOs. It varies.

In this and other discussions on whites in BGLOS, some BGLO members have said that they don't want whites in their orgs. Now what would happen if a similar discussion started about blacks in HWGLOs and even one person said they didn't want them? There would be such a hue and cry about racism...and rightfully so. I don't believe in exclusion.

Also, I am not "hurt". I'm hurt.

Carnation, if someone from a white glo says they do not want blacks in, what social/ historical basis do they base it on? Is it because of racism from blacks that the white orgs were founded? Are the white orgs priding themselves on combating racism and oppression? Or would the peron from the white org be speaking out of fear/ignorance/ and blatant racism? You see, the black glo's and the white glo's exist in different socio-historical contexts. What this means is that the orgs. operate differently and their actions take on different meanings in society. When a black person in a black glo talks about apprehension or conflict with whites in the orgs., it is not out of ignorance and racism, but out of an astute knowledge of the orgs'. history and purpose as well as the history of black people in America that is characterized by racism perpetrated and perpetuated by white people, and sustatined today by racists social structures. So institutions like black glo's, the black church, NAACP, Urban league, etc. are always conscious of the ever present threat of racism. That threat is represented by every white person (whether they claim to be or are actually "racist" or not)that we see. To sum up, Blacks in white glo's and whites in black glo's represent two different socio-historical and present day realities. That is why this thread is vital to the livelihood of our continued development in the black glo's.
P.S. When I put hurt in quotes, I was not trying to belittle your pain, I was merely quoting your exact word. I guess that is just the academic in me.:)
Blackwatch!!!!!

you struck the nail on the head.
 

First; welcome bruh.

Secondly, that's pretty much what I was sayin'-or why I said it. Good point.

Carnation,

I'm not understanding how the title (or nature) of this thread implies that whites and homosexuals are bottom-of-the-barrel members ???:confused:

Also, thanks for stating your "racial creditentials" but that was really unnecessary. Due to the fact that these are public boards, if someone in a WGLO are offended by statements made by individual members, such as "I don't want whites in my org", then that WGLO member has every right to respond. If WGLO members feels that they must be "PC" in their response, then that's their perogative. If they choose not to start " a hue and cry about racism" then once again, that is that member's perogative. But please don't play games like BGLO members are always boo-hooing racism at certain threads or comments. If BGLO members are able to substantiate their claims or statements and some WGLO members can't, then who's fault is that? Who is really the one "boo-hooing"?

Exclusion is not right due to the coloe of someone's skin. But to quote Blackwatch "if someone from a white glo says they do not want blacks in, what social/ historical basis do they base it on? Is it because of racism from blacks that the white orgs were founded? Are the white orgs priding themselves on combating racism and oppression? Or would the peron from the white org be speaking out of fear/ignorance/ and blatant racism? You see, the black glo's and the white glo's exist in different socio-historical contexts. What this means is that the orgs. operate differently and their actions take on different meanings in society. When a black person in a black glo talks about apprehension or conflict with whites in the orgs., it is not out of ignorance and racism, but out of an astute knowledge of the orgs'. history and purpose as well as the history of black people in America that is characterized by racism perpetrated and perpetuated by white people, and sustatined today by racists social structures. So institutions like black glo's, the black church, NAACP, Urban league, etc. are always conscious of the ever present threat of racism. That threat is represented by every white person (whether they claim to be or are actually "racist" or not)that we see. To sum up, Blacks in white glo's and whites in black glo's represent two different socio-historical and present day realities. That is why this thread is vital to the livelihood of our continued development in the black glo's. "

Honeykiss,

I'm not "boohooing". One thing I've observed, due to my racial heritage, is that racism extends both ways. It's no more acceptable for blacks to bash and/or exclude whites that it is for whites to do the same to blacks.

Furthermore, many NPC sororities began due to the extreme sexual discrimination of the day--which certainly still exists today. It is rampant in my field. Nevertheless, you won't see me man-bashing on GC.

This thread has been widely discussed between many of the non-AA members of GC in pms for weeks and many had stated that they couldn't believe that anyone would post something so offensive that non-AAs would be sure to see. I've received several emails since I finally posted that said, "Way to go! You beat me to it!"

I just don't think any of us ought to be hurting anyone else. Blackwatch's response was sufficient to help us semi-understand but then people had to start up again. I won't be visiting this thread again but I wanted y'all to know that the longtime HWGLO members wouldn't diss y'all..please don't do it to us.

It aint our fault...We were given this world (We didn't make it)
 

AA's mistrust of whites is nothing new, nor should it be shocking to white people. If it is, they need to wake up. Blacks deal with exclusion and the negative effects of racism everyday. These issues exist because of some whites treatment and view of Blacks. If whites don't want us in their organization (which I hope you do realize many of them don't) then thats there thing...they have their reasons. We have our own organizations and don't need theirs. If a black person joined an organization dedicated to the advancement of white people SPECIFICALLY, wouldn't a white person wonder? I would. Most of our orgs were founded for the advancement of Black SPECIFICALLY, and all mankind coincidentally. It makes SENSE that AAs would question a white persons intentions and they would be NAIVE not too. Pro-Black doesn't mean Anti-White...I have nothing against "good" white people. But (in my view) it is NECESSARY that my org be focused and remain focused on the advancement of Black people. It is quite logical to assume that an influx of Whites infiltrating Alpha could threaten that focus.

As far as homos, I DO clasify them in the same category as pedaphiles. I think their homosexual behavior degrades the image of our orgs. I don't want to be associated with their negative behavior....that's just my opinion...which I have a right to.

I would love for white people, who have a problem with my views (or any other person who posted on this) to express their feelings. That would make for a intersting, positive,and productive discussion on this issue which involves THEM too....

the Valdosta chapter of the NAACP has a white woman as president. Becoming president....is this voted upon? Just curious.

Time I stepped in
 

Greetings All,

ALL BGLOs were founded on principals to help the community first our people and all others as well. If we fight for equality it is against our principals to intentionally keep whites and gays out of the orgs. How can we fight for equality and keep others out because of race?
However on a personal note I do not support homosexuality but I will not discriminate against others because of thier race but I will question as I would do anyone else why do you want to be an Alpha and what do you know about Alpha that makes you think you can relate to it.

For example not every blackman should be an Alpha, Kappa, Que, Sigma or Iota. Because they are not in line with the ideals of these orgs as MOST WHITE MEN do not have the principals that Alpha needs but there are some out there. Only 5% of black men are in HBGLO. So it is no diffrent for white men only those truly interested will make the effort. And not all will be accepted. This is the way it will be and always be.

Sphinxpoet

Exactly........
 

This just proves that the few nays in this thread aren't representative of the entire AA population and that we aren't racist as some would like to think. :rolleyes: