What should I do?
 

*I apologize if this is the wrong section, new here

Hello everyone!

Here to ask for advice on my current situation.

I go to a very small school and I'm fairly happy here, however, recently I've been very curious as to how different my life would be if I attended a larger school, such as a D2 or D1. (15,000+ is what i'm looking for, my school has about 4,000 on campus 1200 off campus). I've visited friends at these larger schools and I can't help but to feel they're getting more out of their college experience. We recently had a fraternity kicked off campus (lost recognition from the university) and that allowed someone from nationals (i'll leave out the name of this fraternity) to come to the university looking to found a chapter. He got a group of intent of 12 during this semester and a pledge class of 3. Because it was there first semester here they decided to try to have two pledge classes which would have resulted in another 3 but unfortunately two students were not qualified and are believed to definitely be rushing next semester (we've basically told them they're in, just get the qualifications and come back to us). Anyway, I was the one qualified pledge. I'm going through new member education very quickly because they're trying to get me to take the national test before May. I realize bonds are for life. The first thing I did was research what universities had chapters of the orginization (i'm not joining just for letters, I really like the open motto and history of the fraternity). There are only about 40 active chapters, those present at larger schools are all at very good universities such as carnegie mellon, cal berk, etc. I'm not sure if I can quite get into one of those schools (2000 on my SAT if they bother to look, 3.55 college gpa, several extracurriculars, employed by the university, etc). But i'm sure I could get into a slightly less "exclusive" larger school but if I was enticed by the greek life there I wouldn't be able to pledge for anyone.

EDIT: PLEASE LOOK AT POST #8

Here's where my situation may differentiate a little bit. As of right now, I'm told that my chapter has "group of intent" status and they are "Recognized by the university but not by nationals". No one has been officially initiated into the fraternity yet because since we do not have full chapter status we need someone from nationals to come conduct the ceremony for us. However, every brother has passed the national exam and registered for the website, submitting their social security number. I don't forsee the chapter getting full status until at least the end of next semester, probably the next. Which is precisely when I would be hearing back from transfer prospects should I try to transfer.

As scumbaggy as i feel asking this, if no one has been initiated, if the group of intent or provisional chapter isn't recognized by nationals, would I still be able to transfer and pledge elsewhere?

Basically, I feel as if joining would make my time at this University much better. But I can't help but feel I don't belong at this university in general. If I am stuck here, I would definitely like to pledge. In my eyes, this fraternity is going to be the best on campus (for me, at least). I'm just not sure what to do. I'm thinking that life is short, time is ticking, I don't want to spend several years doing x thing when I could have had a much better time doing y thing.

Also if this matters in terms of recognition and being able to pledge another fraternity elsewhere, there's a secret handshake and password, our group of intent hasn't been told that yet. I just feel like the lack of initiation and all that would, if I for some reason do decide to pledge elsewhere, possibly allow me to do so.

I know i'm going to get hammered by "joining just for letters" "why would you want to pledge elsewhere" etc etc, to be completely honest with you I understand what you're saying but in my situation there's 14 people, two of which are graduating, part of a group of intent (they themselves passed the national test less than 6 months ago), in a very isolated small town I'm beginning to regret being in. I'm just not sure, wanted to post openly for advice. Any advice at all is appreciated. Thank you!

If you have not been initiated, you are free to join another organization. There is nothing douchy about your questions, IMO. You are looking ahead and being realistic.

Are you planning to be at your current college one more year (I assume this would be your sophomore year coming up?)? So you would be transferring as a junior (providing all the credits from your current school transfer)?

Fraternities on the whole seem to be more flexible in accepting new members who are not freshmen, so as long as you were flexible in your choices and open to all the chapters at your future school, you would stand a better chances of being extended a bid.

Time-wise it is my second semester at my current university but I transferred in 14 credits from high school. Two of the founding fathers are the two that are graduating, so obviously they went through the process just for one semester of involvement (involvement on campus, of course they can assist the chapter as an alumni). So would it be okay for me to continue with the process and pass the national test and enjoy one or two semesters as a brother of the group of intent/provisional chapter? I would feel bad taking up the new member educator's time with teaching me about the fraternity and preparing me for the test just to transfer. However I do see a angle where that's fine because in exchange I'm doing a lot for the fraternity as well. It's not like I would join and switch schools without having contributed anything.

That's going to have to be your decision. Fraternity colonies can take a very long time, so the chances of a founding father not making it to initiation I would think is pretty common. You're just going to have to go with your gut on this one.

Your comment about they're trying to rush you through pledgeship made me a little leery. Have you mentioned to any of the brothers or national staff that you're thinking about transferring?

If you mean in the sense that they're trying to lock me in or something I doubt that is the case. I was told that they're trying to move me along the process a bit faster because I'm the only one in the pledge class and since we're students first they're trying to keep as many fraternal obligations out of final week as possible.

I've told all the brothers, yes. Like I said there reply was they hope they give me a reason to stay. While I'm sure joining would make my experience here a lot better I still think I would prefer attending a larger school. I would've started at one but I didn't have the GPA right out of high school (2.8gpa, 14 college credits and 2k SAT got me close to a full ride to a not-so-good 4 year school).

All I can say is, keep this about school first. If you can't get the major you want at your school or feel like you're missing out on other academic opportunities, that's what should guide you. Also keep in mind that your tuition and everything else will probably go up and there's the chance that you would get to the new school and not be able to afford a fraternity. You mentioned CMU as an option, and it is CRAZY expensive.

I went to a school of 6000 and while it would have been fun to go to big time college football games and such, I don't feel like I missed a thing. Not only am I still close with my sorority sisters 2 decades later, the whole Greek system in general is. Yes when you're in school sometimes it seems like everyone is up each others' asses and to the left. Yes we didn't have fancy houses. But for me, those things were so outweighed by the love and acceptance I found and continue to find.

It's up to you to weigh pros and cons and stay true to yourself, but as I said, keep this about SCHOOL FIRST. Good luck!

I get what you're saying. It's just hard to decide..you only live once, you know? I want live in the best way for me.

My $0.02—this isn't just about deciding whether to transfer or not. Remember that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. You very well could get to a new school and find that nothing has really changed or that it's not what you hoped it would be.

As 33girl said, if it's a matter of academics or where you really think you'd thrive, that's one thing. But if it's more a matter of "I wonder if it'd be different somewhere bigger," then I think that can be a risky reason to transfer. It might work out, it might not. You're likely seeing an idealized version of your friends' experiences. Trust me, I've been there, more than once.

The most important decision, I think, could be choosing to be happy where you are and to make the most of what your school has to offer—including what a smaller campus can offer that a larger one can't.

Good luck!

Good points, 33 and MC. You may transfer and have the time of your life, but be prepared to transfer and be miserable. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. You've made a place at your school with friends and brothers. You won't have this at Big Name U. You also won't necessarily get a bid to any fraternity. In the end, it is your choice. Some people are doers and make leaps. Some people are content with what they have and make the best of that. Either way, you may regret your decisions. That's called life. There are no guarantees.

Weasuhl: I don't post much, but I happened to see your post and thought I would comment. I was in a somewhat similar situation (I was at a smaller private school) where I was just not getting the college experience I was looking for. In addition, I decided to change my major (which was probably the biggest factor that ultimately motivated my transfer). I was initiated into my sorority, so my only option upon transferring to a large state university was to either affiliate or go to alumnae status. I ended up fitting in much better with the girls at the large state school than with the girls at my original chapter. And my college experience was much better after transferring.
However, as 33girl and MysticCat wisely point out, the first concern should be on academics and long term goals. And AOII Angle is very correct: You might be miserable. I would point out one thing you have not discussed: What do your parents have to say on this? My decision to transfer came after some very long discussions with my father and the pro's and con's of transferring. If you DO decide to transfer, let the members of your colony know what your plans are, and wish them the best.

Another question
 

I also posted: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=140659

I'm now 99% sure I want to transfer out.

https://talk.collegeconfidential.com...prospects.html

Are my list of possible schools. It's a very broad list right now but I still have about a year to decide so in that time I'm sure it'll narrow. As of right now, I believe:

80%+ chance of admission at
University of Colorado at Boulder
Virginia Tech
University of Ohio
Washington State
West Virginia University
Western Oregon
Michigan State
Purdue University
Wake Forest University

With a decent chance at
California Berk (although i'm out of state)
Carnegie Mellon
Colgate University (possibly a bit more of a reach, not sure I want to attend)

Other colleges I'm not sure of.

Here's where greek life comes in..once again I'm not sure about joining the fraternity I received a bid and am currently pledging for. They just started this semester so obviously there are some kinks that need to be worked out, but nonetheless incidents that make me hesitant to join. I know some of you had great experiences in small organizations but since I will be transferring to a larger school there will be very nice greek organization houses, etc that I'll probably be attracted to. I'm just not sure if I want to commit to a social fraternity here to enjoy it for about 2 semesters and 3 weeks and then transfer several thousand miles away.

The catch here is that throughout my life i've done little service/philanthropy on my own time. The current calendar for the fraternity is, to me, overwhelming. I'm sure all of these things would look superb on a transfer application or resume. What I'm trying to say is, I'm not even sure if i'll be able to transfer without the fraternity's help. I definitely don't wish to "use" the fraternity for a resume builder, that's just immoral. I'm just really not sure.

I've tried looking into colleges "without greek life" and there are some prospects there, Western Oregon, Michigan State, for example. I've also considered I could always join a service fraternity at my new school. I'm just not sure.

As I said before, I really think joining the fraternity would make my experience at my current university better but i'm 99% sure I plan to transfer. I'm just not sure what to do. I'm about three weeks away from initiation, with a lot of doubts about how to spend the next three years of my life. Please, post away.

Also, although I'm sure the majority of you here are involved in Greek life, have any of you been in the situation where you transferred and there was not a chapter of your frat/sor there? More specifically, did you feel excluded from any social aspects or service aspects, any feelings of longing to want to be included, any feelings of regret?

Thanks. & if you actually look at the link feel free to chance me at the various schools, much appreciated!

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...niversity-3242

Carnegie was like a "dream school" for me and is regarded as extremely prestigious by all those around me..the link above describes it as a university where 20% of students are affiliated with greek life..not sure how many of those 20% are social vs service but yeah..I feel as if I might get an "excluded" feeling attending CMU.

Ok I'm going to provide a response with the assumption that you are 100% going to leave although I have no way of predicting the future. :) I did transfer from a small school with greek life to another small school without greek life. For me the decision was in part due to the major I wanted to pursue that wasn't offered at the college I started off with. As far as missing out on the social or service aspects with going to a school without greek life. I will be honest my course of study kept me plenty busy, and there was an abundance to get involved according to my schedule. That's the one great thing about college you have a variety of opportunities to pursue activities. I don't feel like I missed out on anything.

With regard to prospects and building up your resume in order to transfer to another school, at least in my case which was a while ago, the primary thing the school I pursued cared about were my grades. The secondary thing they looked at were the types of classes I was taking that contributed to my grades. For example if you have a 4.0 and taking a heavy science and math concentration its a lot different than having a 4.0 and taking heavy basket weaving concentration (unless of course you're pursuing the arts).

Secondly I am a bit concerned about your statement about nice greek houses at a larger campus that you might be drawn to. This is sort of like the analogy a person is focused on one thing at a moment in time, and then "oooh bright shiny object" With those "nice" houses may have various caveats, like higher dues, or requirements that you live in the house etc. So just because a house is "nice" be prepared for a potential trade-off.

In closing, really the decision to continue with the fraternity you're involved with while you remain at your current school is ultimately your decision. As is determining whether or not you want to transfer. Although I would encourage you to base your decision to transfer on what is best for you in pursuit of your educational and future career path. I wish you success on whatever you end up deciding on.

Wait, does the fraternity you're pledging now not have a chapter at any of the schools you are considering? Or is it not a national group?

Also, you are pretty clearly some type of engineering student. Nobody looking at your application at the bigger schools is going to give a rat's ass about your philanthropy work.

I don't think you could pick two schools farther apart in general campus culture than CMU and WVU. You really need to narrow your focus.

I see what you're saying. It was in the back of my head but hearing someone else bring it up..I'll definitely think more about it.

I'm very happy you shared your story. Would you mind sharing what else you got involved in? I was thinking if I actually got into Carnegie for Computer Science my academics would keep me so busy and I'd be very interested in graduating with honors. My current small university mandates so many events..mandated things at carnegie subtracting from my study time might be too much for me to handle.

It is a national group however my University only has a group of intent. I can almost guarantee we'll reach provisional chapter by next semester and have high hopes for becoming an official chapter by the end of next year. I understand that if it was local the story would be different.

If anyone can clarify this: the national advisor is getting an official chapter to come down and perform an initiation ceremony..but we're only a group of intent. What exactly does getting pinned whilst in a group of intent mean? Is that a nationally recognized lifetime commitment or..?

MOST IMPORTANTLY, for transferring from a probably considered low-mid tier school to the likes of Mellon for Comp Sci you really don't think philanthropy matters that much? Of course I agree that grades are much more important but at the same time "not giving a rat's ass"..do you really believe that?

I understand the differences. Different doesn't always mean happy in one place and unhappy in other. To be perfectly honest, I know many people at WVU and the party culture there is superb while still maintaining solid academics. It'd have the opportunity for a balanced life while also being a school relatively easy for someone of my credentials to get into.

CMU has been regarded as highly prestigious to everyone I know for such a long time. I've heard it's name repeated since I was a kid. Not to mention US Newsweek or whatever that website is ranked it as #1 for computer science. No matter who does the list, it's consistently in top 10. It's location suits me best actually. While I like to think I'd really enjoy WVU culture I know that personally I'd prefer to be in a more secluded, dreary kind of area.

(as I understand CMU is stationed in a very windy, rainy, mellow-type place but still has a good bit of industrialization (aka businesses to keep locals/students busy/entertained))

Okay, I have a lot of thoughts. I chopped up your post so I could answer better.

Firstly, that's an extremely broad range of schools. Like 33girl said, you should narrow your focus. You're looking at schools around the country with completely different vibes.

Secondly, it concerns me as well that your concern is the nice big houses that you'll be attracted to. I went to a small private school, myself. I understand envying the large chapter houses other schools have, but that was in no way a deal breaker for me.

Thirdly, you're concerned about how busy your schedule is now that you're "in" a fraternity? Hi, welcome to Greek Life. You must realize that at a larger school, you'll be in organizations with a higher capacity to do more/larger events, right? You're going to be involved in philanthropy work, regardless.

And fourthly, I guess this is just for my own understanding, but how are you looking at schools with "no greek life?" You mentioned Michigan State, but MSU is a Big 10 school with a large Greek Life presence. There are Greeks on this site from MSU.

---

So, just some final thoughts I'm having: if you're so interested in the fraternity you're pursuing (you like its motto, ideals, brotherhood, etc), why not check out one of the ~40 schools where the fraternity has a presence? In that case, the work you're doing for the colony won't be in vain. Plus, it'll really stand out to the guys at the new school.

Also, I know you're having doubts about your small school. Like I said, I understand. I went to a school with at most, 5,000 students, including graduate and nontraditional students, mostly commuters. They thing that really kept me there was my Fraternity and the Greek Life system. Greek Life was able to give me the social involvement I needed. Not to mention that being at a small school allowed me to make a lot of valuable connections and leave a deep, visible legacy in the organizations I was involved in.

So, while deciding if you're going to transfer or not (I see you said you're 99% sure, though), don't rule out everything that your small school has to offer.

Okay, I'm done.

Pick no more than five schools out of that exhaustive list. Prioritize based on your career goals at this time. Bear in mind your age and that you will likely change. THEN make a decision about the fraternity.

Had an hour long convo last night with a 22 year old (soon to be 23), who's almost a year out of undergraduate school. She made a decision to go with a Big Four accounting firm when she was a sophomore. She's looking at things very differently now. She said "how did I know what I was doing when I was 19? I am not the same person I was then." My point: you are going to change immensely in the next decade. Put your educational goals first.

I'm unsure about the "no greek life" thing as well. On collegeconfidential there is a search filter for schools without greek life, I didn't look into the accuracy of it though.

Subtracting schools I don't like (which is only like 4~ anyway) and liberal arts schools (7-10?) schools with chapters include:

Cornell University
Purdue University
Bucknell University
Virginia Tech
York College of Penn

I don't feel very strongly about any of them except MAYBE Virginia Tech but I was recently informed it's considered more of a technical school rather than a four year? I'm not sure. But Cornell? Probably not with my credentials. The rest? I just don't think they're for me. I'm transferring to pursue education and overall experience, not fraternity life specifically.

It's just like I said, if I did get into something like Carnegie, 20% of the school involved in greek life? I just can't help but think I'd feel a little excluded. On the other hand, if I got there i'd be so bogged down with academics I doubt i'd have time for greek life anyway..but I also don't want my like to be 100% academics, you know?

I understand what you're saying. I do plan to narrow the list, I still have a year to decide this is just a very broad preliminary thing.

I understand what you're saying about that age thing as well but unfortunately there's little way for me to predict what I'll want or what I'll wish I had done at this age when I'm 22. That's why i'm so stressed and panicking..I have to decide my future now. It's an odd concept if you think about it. A very nerve-wracking one. I think I'd be happy anywhere, even if I stayed here. The thing is, being happy by "making the best of it" and being at a literal "better place" are very different.



Also just to note, the fraternity house comment was serious. They are envious as it seems several of you can agree. But I didn't mean for it to be a deal breaker. I just think that having next to a mansion for your organization as well as 5-20x as many members all active would be a much more involved, err..complete feeling compared to 15 or so guys struggling to recruit 1-4 people per semester if not year doing events at the same selection of less than 15 local "philanthropy" locations (Schools, shelters, etc). Compared to having a lot more people with a lot more resources doing a much larger variety of things (as you even said, more money, more resources, more frequent and more diverse events).

>>Then stop relying on College Confidential (or GC or anyone else) to do all of the work for you.


>> Graduation, Retention and Transfer Rates:

First Year Student Retention (full-time students): 92%
4-Year Graduation Rate: 59%
6-Year Graduation Rate: 83%

>>Again, stop relying on other people to "inform you". Do your homework. (That means you can contact the schools themselves to ask questions. Use your phone, call them.)

Good luck, and as everyone has suggested, narrow down your choices. It's impossible and ridiculous to writing a novel on every particular issue that affects your final choice. We don't know you. Speak to your current advisor, your parents, trusted professors, educational counselors - they can help you figure this out. WE can only make suggestions based on very limited information, and that means anything we suggest won't answer your questions sufficiently, because we don't know the whole story.

Yes, I do believe that. The number one thing that admissions committees are concerned about is whether you can do the work and become a successful graduate. I know you're really busy looking at all the rankings...do you ever see a tech school publish the number of community service hours done by their students? No. They publish quartiles for SAT/ACT scores and GPA's. If you are a borderline acceptance, recommendations from your professors, activities related to your major, etc. may be helpful, and in fact, a major leadership position with quantifiable accomplishment may even get a second look, but nobody cares that you volunteered at the homeless shelter once/week.

CMU has a strong Greek system, but I never met anyone who felt excluded by not being Greek (I left many years ago, but stay in touch). In fact, there are a few organizations that are not greek, but exist to give students much the same collegiate experience.

Today started their BIG spring Greek event - Carnival. See the web cam at http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~sc0v//webcam. In addition to Midway, there are reunions, socials, plays, concerts, etc.

I just have to say this: it's either "Carnegie Mellon" or "CMU." Calling it just Carnegie is nails on a chalkboard. You are going to be pretty much in the middle of Pittsburgh (well, east middle) and near many other colleges with many more women, so if that's going to be too much of a distraction for you, I'd think twice.

I say this with love. You have to go a LOOOONG way to feel excluded or freakish at CMU. :-)

Someone from the fraternity in question could best answer this question, but my guess, especially given use of the word "pinning," is that it's what is traditionally called "pledging." No lifetime commitment involved yet.

Bear in mind that many of us here at GC are not on college anymore. We're alums, and some have quite a bit of experience on the other side of things. DeltaBetaBaby works in academia.

I'd say you've been misinformed. You might want to step away from College Confidential.

If bigger sounds better to you, that's fine. Flavors of ice cream—some of us loved being in big chapters, some of us loved being in small chapters, and some of us thought the grass was greener on the other side of the fence. Some of us even come from GLOs that typically have small chapters, and we value what benefits that can provide.

But please understand there may not be a "mansion." At some very Greek schools, there may not even be a house at all, or it may be a house that only a small number live in.

Ditto to not relying on college confidential and GC, and waiting for people to inform you.

:) Good luck to the OP but I shudder when people seem to rely heavily on message board advice or expect people to inform them with minimal effort on their part. Use your college smarts and ability to research to find information beyond college confidential and GC.

GC must be having a boring week.

You have narrowed down your choices. Go visit the campuses. If they have a chapter of the fraternity you are a provisional member of, make arrangements to stop by the house, or get together with some of the brothers during your visit. Make a list of things you would want at your ideal school. See how the schools remaining on your list match up with your list. Is your list a little too far-reaching (meaning that no school would match up)? If so, adjust your expectations so that they are more realistic. Make a pros and cons list of the schools you are interested in. But do go visit.

I predict that the things you value so highly right now will seem a bit trivial in 10 or 15 years. This is not a test. You are not being graded. There is no right or wrong answer. You can make the best of it, no matter where you finish your education. You are stressing too much.