Should kids be allowed to sue their parents?
 

In this case, I think this girl feels completely entitled and doesn't understand how the world works. And if she was truly abused, I don't think she'd be looking to sue for college tuition.

http://www.today.com/moms/judge-deni...ey-2D79321954#

What say you, GCers? Would there ever be a reason to rule in favor of a child attempting to sue their parents?

I think there would be times where a child could sue the parents, but in the teensy bit of information I heard about this story, I don't think so. Unless there was a contract of some kind promising college. Being born rich =/= any such contract.

Allowed? I guess they can file a lawsuit. A man sued a restaurant for not providing enough napkins.

Will it be successful? No.

I think for serious situations i.e. mental physical abuse, etc.yes. For frivolous crap, no.

Obama should sue his father for abandoning him. His father should pay reparations.

CNN has some more information. In NJ, children aren't considered emancipated when they turn 18; her parents are still legally financially responsible for her. The first round of claims was denied on the basis that she's not in any kind of emergency where she would need funding right away, and the high school has agreed to cover her tuition, so tuition reimbursement from the parents is unnecessary. The parents have been investigated for abuse before, though nothing came of it. Another family (not her boyfriend's parents) felt her abuse claims were substantial enough that they are housing her and paying her legal fees. To me, that raises some questions.

The most interesting issue in all this for me, is if she's had a college fund set aside for her her entire life, can her parents decide to keep it at the last minute (a semester before attending college) because she's breaking house rules?

I'm hesitant to say anything either way. It sounds like the parents weren't doing anything wrong, but I've seen enough abusive, narcissistic parents who presented a good front that I wouldn't feel comfortable forming an opinion.

That is an interesting question about the college fund, and might depend on the exact nature of the fund.

About the abuse investigation, while I agree that raises some questions, DYFAS has a very very spotty reputation, both for under reaction and over reaction. So the simple fact they were investigated might mean nothing. *shrugs* I'm interested to see what happens here.

What a mess.

Unless there is real abuse going on (and sorry, the old "my dad is being so mean he hates my boyfriend, he just doesn't understand" does not constitute abuse in my book), she has chosen to not abide by her parents' rules and has chosen to live as an adult. Fine. She cannot have it both ways, however. No one is owed a college education. There are plenty of kids who had/have to do it on their own for a number of reasons. And yes, the parents may have a college fund like we did, but had our girls decided to not go to college (or culinary school or whatever), then that fund would have become my re-do the kitchen and bathrooms fund.

OF course I say this while remembering the story about the girl at U of Cincinnati whose parents went off the deep end, started tapping her phone and computer, were stalking her, among other bizarre things, and ended up being hit with a restraining order, so you never know.

What bothers me the most though, is that the girl's friend's dad is the lawyer who initiated the lawsuit for her. She and her parents should be working with a counselor to figure it out, he is driving a larger, perhaps insurmountable wedge between her and her parents.

I was abused by my parents. It annoyed me to no end when I was in high school and other girls would bitch about how horrible their parents were cause of something like you mentioned. No, that is not abuse, that is just parenting.
I think the problem with this issue is that we, at least me, don't really know what is going on. Speaking from experience pretty much everyone who knows my parents will defend them. Growing up I heard, 'Oh, your so lucky to have them as your parents." it was because of this that I did not understand that it was actual abuse. My point, you never know what is going on in someones house.

Do, you think that the friends parents are pressuring her or maybe have convinced the teen to sue her parents?

This topic is kinda of hard for me. I was abused, but also my parents kicked me out at 18 because I did not follow their rules. however, they decided that as their child I had to obey them. And because of this they decided that they wanted grandchildren and that I had to provide them these grandchildren. But, if you talked to my mom about this you would get a complete different story. The way she tells it is that i was an out of control teen who was running wild, disobeying God and doing whatever I wanted. Or my version, I was working and going to community college, planning on transferring to a 4 yr school so I could get away from my parents. My parents version is that I don't need a college education to have a baby so therefor I was disobeying them and God, you know cause I have to obey my parents.
I only say this cause there are ways to spin stories to make the other person sound like the bad person. I do have my own personal view on these things, but as objective as I can be I still don't feel like we know the whole story.
DNP

I'm sorry to hear about your family situation, DNP, and I agree that none of us can fully understand the dynamics of that family. Hopefully the truth will come out in court.

But, in your situation which was truly an abusive one, do you feel like your parents owe you the cost of a college education? I think that's the part that is over the top and has people siding with the parents before they know the whole story.

The older and (hopefully wiser) I become, I have realize that there are three sides to every story. The parent's side, the kid's side, and somewhere most likely in between the truth.

18 year olds don't get to sue. This kid is facing a problem faced by thousands of kids every year: Do I move out of the house and tell my parents to go eff themselves, or do I do what they say (no matter how awful) so they keep paying my bills? Making that choice sucks, but it's one that lots of people face. This kid did an impulsive thing by just leaving. She would have been smarter to bide her time, get to college (just a few months away), and then back away from her parents slowly.

Under 18: In Illinois, at least, kids under 18 (or their creditors) have the right to sue for support if their parents boot them. Parents are obligated to pay housing, food, and medical expenses until an unemancipated child turns 18, regardless of whether the kid is at home. (I'd have to look to see if clothing and tuition are also covered.) Or course, the parent would also have the right to drag the kid home, too.

In a case like this one, if the parents told the kid to leave, and the kid was under 18, the parents would be obligated to pay for her support until she turned 18. ( She could also legally sue to be emancipated, but I don't know what the court would do about support for a 16 or 17 year old that has been given adult legal status early. )

I'm comfortable with the 18 year old cut-off. At 18, you can join the Army or get another job. It's tough, but not the end of the world. My mom was married and the mother of a toddler when she was 18. My grandmother was helping run a farm and raising two kids at 18.

In some cases, 18 year olds can sue for long-term support. In Oklahoma, a child is entitled to support until 18 unless that child is regularly attending a full time high school. Then, CS can run through the age of 21.

There is also a statute from 1910 or so which says parents have a duty to provide for their children.... a 35-year-old ne'er do well has yet to attempt to sue his parents for support under that statute, so who knows?

Also, child support doesn't go to the child, it goes to the parents or guardians. I don't think this young lady would have much of a shot under Oklahoma law, but the attorney arguing the point might get props from the judge for such a creative legal theory before she dismisses the case.

My main problem with this story is the demand for college tuition. There are plenty of students in this country, who have loving parents, who don't get sent to college on a free ride. They have to pay for it themselves. This is what makes me think she's entitled. A parent may be required to take care of their children until they're 18, but going to college is a privilege, not a right.

And if her complaint is that her parents were abusive, wouldn't she be better off suing for pain and suffering, or something similar?

My grandfather passed away when I was a senior in high school. He had left me money that I was suppose to use to pay for college. Because of this money my parents would NOT let me work or apply for scholarships. He passes before I turned 18. When I turned 18 my parents got control of this money and used it to control me. This is a very long story, but i often give the example of a kid holding a cookie and saying to a younger kid, "want the cookie?" and the little kid nods his head. The older kid holds the cookie and makes the little kid jump up or do other do something else. My parents help this money over my head for years telling me what I had to do to get the money. I did everything that I they said until I could not take it any more and left. Trick is that my parents gave the money to my brother, so he got his money and mine.

So, No I do not think that my parents just own me money because I was abused, however I think my parents own me this money and interest. I want to be clear, This is legally my money. But the will was written in a way that my parents got control over it and there was no specifics of me having to get it. I guess this made sense because grandpa was sick for about 10 years before he passed. If he though oh DNP is 8, she should not have access to this money. That would make sense. But My brother got his money when he turned 18, which sets a presidency that this money is mine.

The problem is that I have talked to lawyers who say things to me like, what is wrong with you, you want to sue your parents? Um yeah, I want the money that is legally mine. By giving the money to my brother that are stealing money from me. So, what is wrong with? um, my parents are stealing money from me. That is what is wrong.

Life is too crazy to really pursue this. It is hard to put energy into this. My grandmother (who was married to the grandpa who left me this money) recently passed and left me money, it is not even half of what grandpa left me, but it is better than nothing. So, I am able to go to school. But it is still hard to think about what my life would have been like if I had gotten the money, that i legally should have gotten, when I was 18. I try not to think about things like this, but trust me, I can let myself get really pissed off playing the what-if game.
DNP

Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.

I've read a bit about this story. IMO, her parents should fund her high school education - they made her attend private school. But everything else should be on her. How many of us have paid our own way through college, by working a part-time job or taking out loans that we had to pay back after graduation or working full-time and going to school at night?

There are a several things that bother me...

1. Daughter refused to live by her parent's rules in their house so she walked out the door.

2. She is staying with a friend whose father arranged for her to meet with the lawyer and encouraged her to sue her parents. The father wants child support for her-- wait! she is over 18, no child support. He can ask for assistance with her expenses but child support isn't the method.

3. She doesn't want to be a part of the family but wants their money. There is such a thing as public school. Yes, she would have to change schools at the end of her senior year but, again, her choice.

4. Supposedly she has been cutting school, doing poorly, etc. Which college would take someone who is not passing their classes? No college acceptance, no need for college tuition. She may have already had an acceptance before she walked out the door, but that does not mean that the school will not take back the acceptance. I know several kids who were accepted at their first choice school who decided to skate once they received their acceptance to the point they did not have an acceptable GPA their last semester. Imagine their surprise when that letter came telling them "we are sorry but you are no longer wanted by our school due to your poor grades during your last semester."

I have always told me kids that when you live at home, you take the good and you take the bad.

DaffyKD

See, that's what bothers me. Over the years, I've known of several kids who moved out, egged on by the siren call of another family who had Heaven knows what motive. To prove their goodness? To hurt the birth family? Or even, as recently happened here, to get a good girl to commit crimes with their family?

We have also known of many teens who lied about their home situation so they could live with a boyfriend or friends/move to Hollywood/date a sketchy guy or girl/get even with their parents for not buying them expensive electronics, etc. Abuse certainly occurs but so do horrific lies. And this just sounds bizarre.

Wow. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but I am not part of the problem just because I think Dave Ramsey is another radio hack who's found a niche and, at least in this case, doesn't know what he's talking about, but does know what his audience wants to hear. He should stick to financial advice (which I don't take from him either).

I've read nothing to suggest that the lawsuit is fully frivolous. I can think of situations under Oklahoma law where child support continues past the age of 18. I don't know enough about this state's laws to be able to render much of an opinion about this thing. But yeah, Ramsey is a hack on many levels.

Exactly, which is part of why I said Ramsey didn't know what he was talking about. I certainly don't know enough about NJ law—much less the actual facts of this case*—to know whether this is clearly a frivolous claim from a spoiled brat or not, but it was clear to me that Ramsey knows even less about it than I do.

*I know very well from years of experience that what I read about a lawsuit in the press is likely not completely accurate and almost certainly not the whole story.

I could think of a non-frivolous way under Oklahoma law to bring this. Here, caregivers are entitled to child support after the age of 18 if that child is still regularly attending a full-time high school program. This mostly applies to children with disabilities. In this case, though, I could perhaps argue that these parents are affirmatively unfit and that the daughter has designated a guardian for the purpose of completing her HS education. I think I might actually win that case if I can meet the burden on parental unfitness.... and that an 18 year old and her parents are like oil and water could get me there.

I wouldn't turn down a retainer on these facts. I'll say that much.

In New Jersey, child support can extend past 18 if you are a full time college student. I'm not sure exactly when that cuts off, but I remember my mom being sued by my father to cut off child support when I was 19 and she was able to keep getting it.

In Texas child support is over at 18. College is not considered a part of child support, and the only way to get it written into a divorce decree is for both parties to agree, which of course my ex wouldn't do.

Not that I'm bitter.

I knew a lot more kids with dicey parents than parents with dicey kids. Much of my reaction to this case is filtered through that personal experience.

I ran down a chart that is put out by the National Conference of State Legislatures which lists a very brief of summary of what each state allows. A few states would allow what this kid is requesting. Another lawyer in my office who does family law has opined that there is a colorable legal argument that NJ is violating equal protection by allowing child support to be ordered for adult children of divorced parents but not for adult children of married parents. There isn't a good public policy reason to order college support for one, but not the other, and NJ apparently allows courts to order support for adult college-enrolled children in divorce decrees.

It's a tricky policy issue. How do we manage the financial emancipation of adult children in an economy where many of them aren't really able to support themselves until well after they reach legal adulthood? I'm a proud member of Team Commie, so I'd broaden grants and give stipends for young people who are attending college, but THAT ain't gonna fly in the current political environment.

You can see the overview here:
http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-s...for-adult.aspx

http://www.ncsl.org/research/human-s...for-adult.aspx

Where was Obama's father when he was 18?

What do you think should be done to parents who don't take care of their kids up until 18?

Yeah. You are.

Have you paid attention to the story? It's about finances, and relationships.

Listen. I know you don't like Dave Ramsey. You come out with your bashing shovel every time I share something. I'm not going to stop sharing stories like this. Because while not everyone will admit it on here, someone, somewhere along the way might actually give a damn and learn something from him, and it's COMPLETELY worth pestering you if it helps someone else in the long run. If you don't like it, ignore it.

[QUOTE=tuco99;2264981]Where was Obama's father when he was 18? /QUOTE]

Probly somewheres bein' a Kenyan Mooslim. Give it a rest.

Gracious! (ness)

Huh? Maybe I've talked about him in one or two other threads, but it think that's it.

I think you missed my point. If you or others find Dave Ramsey's advice helpful, more power to you. I really have no problem with that. People are free to make choices that I don't make—if those choices work for them, then great. They're just not for me for a variety of reasons.

To be honest, the problem that I have with your posts on Ramsey isn't so much with Ramsey himself. It's the arrogance—sorry, but that's what it is—of suggesting that anyone who doesn't agree with Ramsey, and I guess with you, is "part of the problem" or doesn't give a damn.

See, I have no problem ignoring posts about Ramsey and advice from him. Your insults to those of us who don't agree with his perspectives or follow his advice by telling us we're part of the problem or stupid, when you have no clue as to how we parent or manage finances, is what's harder to ignore.

This ^. Also my problem with the link posted is when he starts to make comments about public policy. I got turned off when he started to say that the girl and her attorney should be sanctioned for "wasting the court's time." It's something he knows nothing about, but he is in a position where people value what he says on the air. That is irresponsible.

Well, I think the comments are pretty spot on.

Exactly. While it seems that his advice has worked well for some people trying to get out of debt, he has no qualifications whatsoever to comment on public policy. For what it's worth, neither does Oprah.

Oh look, princess has returned home.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/03/12...n-returns-home

This thread and that anyone would be interested in this is just kind of creepy. This is a family going through a rough time. I've seen weird and I've seen worse. The only wrinkle here is that she is 18, which according to my limited research of NJ law, there was probably a smarter approach for this young lady. In NJ, you are not deemed an adult simply because you are 18 for the purposes of the parents' duty to support their child. It might have been appropriate here to file for guardianship.

And please.. just don't believe the allegations on one side of the case. I have seen very few cases (as a lawyer who has done hundreds of family law/custody cases where the Judge could take either party completely at their word. In family law cases more than anyplace else, parties are lying manipulative bastards. Even as the attorney, it's hard to tell when your client is being truthful sometimes.

This family deserves privacy. Calling her "princess" is really uncalled for. You've read some snarky editorialized BS, from Fox News of all places and have made your mind up. That is always ill-advised.

I think the whole privacy thing went right out the window when this hit the national news.

Again, I don't presume to know anything about their situation, but the fact that the daughter is suing for college tuition is what bothers me, for the reasons I've stated previously.

Decent folks would have the good sense to not take sides and judge these people.

Oh hell.. I can't tell you how many times I've had some Dr's wife sue for college tuition for the kids (not something a court can order). If a Dr's wife is going to do it, why is an 18 year old doing it worse? I don't know whether that's something you can do in NJ. If it is, why not sue for it also? If not, the lawyer should have known better. I don't blame the kid for that either way.

Dnp - there are groups out there that help child stars whose parents have usurped their money. Google Paul Peterson. I know that isn't the same thing, but they may be able to help you.

Any child who thinks that her parents owe her a college education simply for breathing is a spoiled little princess. You live at home and obey mom and dad's rules, and don't break the law by underage drinking, and defying a curfew and a bad news boy, or you leave home and face the real world. The real world does not mean begging for money because you didn't think your plan the whole way through before you ran off out of defiance. If you're going to run off at 18, you'd better have a plan for surviving in the big bad tough world of being an adult. That does not mean pitching a hissy fit because you didn't get your way and suddenly you had no way to pay for the college education you assumed would be handed to you on a silver platter.

If MY child left home because she was too big for her britches and didn't want to follow rules I had established for her own protection, there's no way I'l lovingly pay for an education that she would piss away by drinking and getting into trouble with bad news boys.

I left home at 18. It was after I graduated, but I had a plan. It was called the military. I didn't have to worry about mom and dad holding tuition fees over my head. The military took care of me. I had a place to sleep, food to eat, and a job to do that brought in a paycheck.

Don't you find it odd that she hasn't been home in months and now that this has hit the news suddenly, she's home?

Sure, there's alot of "what ifs" that we don't know about, but it's all pretty suspicious. Yep, the media is fabulous at spinning stories in a negative light 99% of the time.... but no matter who the target was in this case, it wouldnt have been good for either side.