Black/Multiracial women in "White" sororities
 

While I see a great deal on this page about White women in traditionally Black sororities, there is little discussion about minority women who join NPC organizations? I know many campus, this is frowned upon and minority women who do pledge "White" sororities are often mistreated and ostracized by other minorities on campus. Why?

This is interesting.

There is a young black man in a class of mine. He is a member of a white frat. He dyed his hair a shade of blond and wears contacts (I believe they're blue).

In addition, he steers every discussion in class towards racism and racially charged issues.

Every time we discuss issue of beauty and what society defines as beauty, he always give examples of white women as beautiful. He always talks about these particular white women because "they're thick" (he appears likes athletes)- but I've never heard him mention Venus or Marion Jones as beautiful women.

Just an observation.

PhoenixGrad:
At my campus there were no BGLO groups. However, there were Asian people on campus who joined "white" sororities and fraternities. I don't think there was much of an issue with anyone being accepted, but my campus was quite accepting and open of cultures and colors. I guess it would depend on the campus and what the political climate was like.

I don't know of anyone who was mistreated or accused of "selling" out their race or ethnic group, but that is not to say that it doesn't happen.

There were a few black students who joined non-BGLOs on my campus. And yes, they were ostracized. This went for any organizations on campus, though. (Exception: exchange students who happened to also be black seemed to be exempt from this, they were accepted by most anyone). I know a few black students who felt like they had to choose between being involved in the "white" campus or the "black" campus. Most of them wouldn't tell you this, they just made their decision and lived with it, usually happily. (or close to it)

Interestingly enough, my freshman year, I had several black friends, but by the end of the year they were mostly acquaintances. Not by my choice, but because they had to choose between "white" or "black". It's unfortunate, I could have become very good friends with many of them (a few I did) and I'm sure we would have learned a lot from each other.

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SilverTurtle@greekchat.com
Phi Beta Fraternity
Phi chapter

At my school the discussion usually turns to "token" black guys in fraternities. The fact is, there aren't very many black guys at this school, and those who are here are either anti-greek or they join BGLOs. There is one black guy in SAE, a couple in Sigma Pi, and one in Delta Sig. It would be cool if we had some black guys, because diversity is good. We already have a few Asian guys, as do all of the fraternities.

I think that many minority groups somehow see black guys joining fraternities as "sellouts" because they are becoming part of the establishment– what the minority groups consider the white establishment. Unfortunately, they are wrong. But it would be nice if more minority students would get involved in GLOs. Ironically, at this school white people are also minorities. The distribution is as follows:

http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~awatters/admits.gif

As you can see, there aren't very many black guys to select from. Truly, the number of black guys in fraternities is dictated by the number who are interested.

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andrew watters
Theta Chi – ucla

On my campus we have both BGLO's and GLO's. I know that for my organization that yes we do have multi-racial sisters. We have sisters from many different walks of life. A few semesters ago, an African-American young lady decided to pledge us. She wanted us 110% and we wanted her 110% - she was an excellent student, friend, and pledge. She was in my family also!

Unfortunately she caught a lot of slack from her African-American "friends" (both those who were non-Greek as well as those in BGLO's), even though she remained friends with them (i.e., she didn't drop them when she got her letters). It was a very hard time for her and I talked with her daily about her choice to be a sister with us. By the end of the semester, however, she was exhausted from the stress and left the school to go to a community college where she could refocus on her grades! She ended up dropping all contact with both us and her other so-called friends.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, so please don't misunderstand...I know there are plenty of people who would have supported her decision either way. I just use "friends" because I think a true friend would stand by her decision and be her friend no matter what letters were across her chest! Due to all the negative posts I am worried that I will be misunderstood, so if I've worded something in a confusing manner, please let me know!

Also, I know that I can only speak for me - I know that there are people that would not be accepting of someone because of their skin color! But I am proud to say that I do not base my feelings of sisterhood with a woman because of this. I think we should join an organization because of the love in our hearts for it and the principles of its founding.

PandaBear- That was very well said! I have never understood people who would treat a 'friend' badly just because they pledged the sorority that was right for them! They are not true friends, because true friends wouldn't care either way. Two of my closest friends are in other sororities. One is an AKA and one is a Delta and I don't know what I would do without them!

ZetaAce

PS>I am STILL waiting for a picture of the purple, blue, and green people http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/tongue.gif

As far as feedback from other African Americans, I find that some seem to think that I owe them an explination why I joined NPC and not an NPHC. I have been accused of trying to be white, being a sell out, and so on.
I find it ironic that the same people(in my case, members of BGLO's) who would complain about there not being enough minorities in the NPC/IFC houses, would be the first to put down and/or ostracize those who would dare to attempt to join such organizations.
I did find out though, who were/are my real friends throughout the process.

As a side note, I also seem to find that the BGLO members have this attitude that only the "rejects" should join the NPC houses. By that I mean if they(bglo's) feel you're not the right type for them, then the NPC should be you second choice. I say this from experience.
I have to admit though, it makes me a stronger person. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I'm not trying to be rude, but what can an African-American possibly have in common with a Caucasion fraternity/sorority as it relates to culture?

Our GLO doesn't relate to culture...it relates to the ideals of our founding sisters which were to be true to yourself and always be the best "you" no matter what! I know that in those days "fraternities" for women were very new and our sisters formed our GLO to further women's causes. Although different races may not have been present on campus like today, our ritual has always included the words to "treat others with dignity and respect, and to always uphold any woman in her endeavors regardless of greek affiliation." This is why I fell in love with the GLO I belong to. I didn't feel compelled to be the prettiest, smartest, or most popular, rather to just be "me"! I never had to feel like I wouldn't belong based on the color of my skin, my religious beliefs, etc. My sisters, even through our difficult times, have always shown me love through our bond. This is why I think my friend chose us - she felt the same love I did and unfortunately she let outside influences pull her away! Anyway I think just because a person joins a particular GLO or BGLO or whatever, doesn't mean he or she loses or has to change her culture. I have learned a lot about the many cultures of my sisters which has been one of the huge plusses of being greek!

And ZetaAce...thanks for the support - check out the other post for your pictures...LOL!

Panda Bear pretty much said it all. My house is not based on culture but on common ideas. Ideas that I can relate to. If race was an issue when I pledged, then they (my sorority) would not have bidded me. I'm quite happy with my decision.

NPCGirl...if you don't mind, could you tell me which group to which you belong?

And, sadeluv, my sorority was founded to promote music and the fine arts. Although many chapters really don't adhere to that, my chapter certainly does, and as a person with an interest in fine arts, it appealed to me. "Culture", indeed.

Like I've said before, I love my sorority and I love my chapter...which are both diverse in more ways than just racially. I'm secure in the knowledge that I picked the best group for me, and if anyone calls me a sellout, or questions my racial authenticity, so be it. I can, however, understand the feeling many in a similar situation may feel.

sure...Phi Sigma Sigma

I find it quite interesting that there exists an attitude among some african american college students, particularly at traditional (white) universities, that black students should join black organizations, exclusively. I don't understand why black people who have, for their own personal reasons, chosen to attend a traditional college, could ever have a problem with a black person choosing a traditional greek organization. Where was their pro-black attitude when they decided to attend a traditional (white) university? It just seems odd thats all. Maybe someone could enlighten me.

I'd be interested to know how many "minority women" are in NPC organizations, and which organization are the most ethnically diverse. How many women of color in this chat room are members of NPC sororities? Which ones?

NPCmember:

Just as a point of reference, African-American-founded organizations are just as "traditional" as other GLOs founded by whites. I hate the use of the words traditional, mainstream, majority, etc. to describe institutions that are largely and/or historically white, which implies that nonwhite institutions are somehow less valid.

To your statement about blacks attending white institutions and affiliating with black organizations while there: Why wouldn't blacks want to get educations from the nation's top schools, whether they are historically white or black institutions? And while there, black students may feel the need to affiliate with those familiar to them or those who share their same experiences and/ or beliefs. Isn't that kind of the point of joining ANY greek organization, to fellowship with like-minded individuals? So why would blacks be any different?

Why is it not odd that whites associate with each other freely and at times, exclusively at these same institutions? Why is there no outcry about that? At my university, no one batted an eye when white students ate, studied, lived, and partied in all-white settings, but had a coronary when black, Asian, Arab, Latino students did the same. Why is that?

you see discogoddess, you are thinking the same thing I am, only in reverse. Why would a white person not want to attend a college that (might be predominantly black) but has a great program for their major? Why wouldn't a white person want to join a BGLO if they share like-mindedness? The point is, both predominantly white organizations and predominantly black organizations and any other orginizations that are greek run along the same lines in focus. They ALL contribute to the community and society as a whole in some way, shape, or form. They might NOT have been founded for the same REASONS, but they all share a common goal, and that is to better the world we live in. In my opinion, it shouldn't matter what organization you join as long as you have the aims and ideals in mind and a love for what your organization you are in. In other words, you shouldn't join a GLO cause you're white and you shouldn't join a BGLO cause you're black. You should join XYZ cause it supports Animal Rights and you are all for that, or you should join GRT cause they help further research for breast cancer, or join YJR cause they are professional organization in your field.

[This message has been edited by mgdzkm433 (edited June 13, 2000).]

My personal experience, now that I think about it, is that in my chapter, there 2 sisters that are black, and 2 that are Native American. There's 1 that's Chinese-American, a couple who are Greek-American. I am Indian-American. Most everyone else is white - however there are a couple sisters who are quite proud of their heritage (one sister is from the South, for example, and another sister has Norse heritage). I've no idea what anyone else's cultural identity struggles have been like; I know I've caught some flak now and then for not hanging out with Indians enough. I've never really understood the logic of that: either I'm with Indians, or against Indians? <shrug>...I have my values, and I live up to them...I don't need to prove anything to anyone, as long as I'm true to myself. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Well said! I would agree with these thoughts - you should go where YOU can be supportive of the aims & ideals of that organization. This will make you a better member through your support of the group, while making the group stronger in improving our communities. This, to me, is what mattered when I chose my group! I support the goals of my group 110%, and through each individual effort, our sisters have been able to be more active and productive in the community. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

PandaBear & NPCgirl,
Your culture is a reflection of yourself, so how can you be true to yourself withour recognizing your culture? ( I'M GOING TO PAUSE SO YOU CAN READ THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT AGAIN AND GET A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING).........................OKAY. That's who you are and where you've come from, whether you are Black, White, or Biracial.

NPCMember,
I hope your mental capacity isn't that shallow to really make a comment like that. I'll let you read DiscoGoddess's response AGAIN, because she hit the nail on top of the head.

What I am trying to say is that I believe in the ideals of my GLO, and that I joined the group because I knew I would belong regardless of my cultural background.

I'm glad to discuss this issue with you (or anyone), but do you have to sound so condescending? I'm not going to PAUSE so you can re-read that statement because I'm assuming you would do so anyway! As far as the proverbial "nail" goes, it has been hit on the head by many different hammers. I'll respect your opinion as long as you respect mine.

Gee, how many times have I heard THAT argument? http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Don't make assumptions about things you know nothing about. Aside from what I've posted on this topic, you know absoultly nothing about me JUST as I know nothing about you.
As I said before, I'm happy with my decision and had race been the issue,which is was not,
I would not have been given a bid. The content of my character and what I have to offer & contribute was/is enough for my sorority.
http://www.phisigmasigma.org

I invite you to look at my fraternity's national website. (yes, we are known as a women's fraternity)
http://www.npcwomen.org

I also invite you to look at the NPC website which has links to all 26 NPC houses. Each has something unique & different to offer. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif


"Never limit yourself, open your eyes and see the world for all it's possibilities!"

PandaBear,
My intent was not to disrespect your opinion. If I didn't respect your opinion, I would not have responded.

NPCgirl-phisig?
Apparently you haven't heard it enough. I don't have to know you to say that "your culture is a reflection of you." That's not an assumption.


"If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything."

You took the words right from my mouth! And just a little FYI...FACT...people of color are NOT minorities...people of color are indeed the MAJORITY.



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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

EQueen - What organization do you belong to? It's so diverse, I am curious.

Anyway, I looked very closely at both the traditionally white and traditionally black sororities. Greek life appealed to me. I examined all my options. I signed up for NPC rush, had my application all ready -- but once I got on campus and learned about the NPC sororities and met girls in the sororities, I realized that wasn't for me.

I found the NPHC sororities very appealing -- something about the passion they have for their organizations and the pride they show -- it really sort of personified what I had expected from greekdom.

But, I soon realized that I would never quite fit in all the way (this is my experience only -- not speaking for everyone else). I realized that was't right for me either - especially after reading some of the comments written by NPHC sorority members on this forum regarding their non-african-american members.

So, we decided to bring a chapter of an Asian American sorority to our campus -- we researched them all and found one that we "felt" -- and I am so happy with my decision.

God bless all of you who know they made the right decision.

Asia

Sadeluv, maybe you should go back and re-rread my post. Discogoddess, I read your ppost, and for the most part, I totally agree with you. Especially the point about Nowhere in my previous post will you find a statement that argues that. Furthermore, you go on to state: Once again you make an excellent point. However, I'm not sure how it relates to my post. Maybe I should make my point clearer.
Do you think black students "should" join black organizations "exclusively"? I find it interesting, particularly at traditional universities, because at the Historical Black University, this is not an issue. Which brings me to this: The notion that I refer to Non-Historically Black Colleges as "Traditional" is in no way meant to imply mainstream, majority, etc. It's calling it what it is. I am an Alumni of a prestigeous, "Historically Black University". Most people refer to it as an HBCU. In any event, I take great pride in calling it what it is... an HBCU. Congress approved legislation a couple of years back, guaranteeing the preservation of the phrase,
"HBCU's",because the (HBCU) is considered a historical site. What about the organization you belong to? How often do you refer to it as a "TGLO"? Don't you call it a "BGLO"? I think most members of NPHC orgs. take great pride in calling it a "BGLO". I think "HBGLO" is more appropriate, but thats my own opinion. In any event, I was only hoping to gain a better understanding as to why people think others "should" join only one type of organization, because of their skin color.

Well,that's how you feel, oh well. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/cool.gif

Sadeluv,

I forgot to ask..Did you even bother to visit the sites I suggested?

Asia, I'm a member of Alpha Sigma Kappa -- Women in Technical Studies. Actually, the diversity in terms of ethnicity is true of my own chapter -- I can't speak for our other two chapters, but I'm fairly sure they are not as diverse.

I like what you said:
"God bless all of you who know they made the right decision." After all, our decisions to pledge/initiate our respective GLOs are personal and from the heart! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif I'm glad things are working out for your sisterhood. Which one did you end up establishing a chapter for, and at what school? I'm curious. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

NPCgirl-phisig,
Actually, I did look at the sites briefly.

As I have said somewhere else on this network, I am black and joined a traditionally white sorority. At my campus (east la), there are few white people, so my chapter is made up mostly of latina women with mixes of asian, white and black women.

I'm pretty sure there were black GLOs and latino GLOs and asian ones too. But they were not very visible on campus. Though it's a big public school, greek life is really not big there.

Anyway, as I have said before, I have not one regret when it comes to choosing the sorority that I did (AST!)

http://dallasnews.com/lifestyles/105767_AKA05.html

I have no PROBLEM with black women joining GLOs, but I don't understand it. But don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I have to understand other people's decisions, just like I'm not inclined to "explain myself" to someone else. I just can't see wanting to join an orgainzation that may or may not have admitted you when the orgainzation was founded. Why would you want to join a group (any group) where your brother could have been lynched just for comming to see you at the Sorority house not 30 years ago (even now in some places). Especially when there are four orgainzations whose founders look like you, fought so that you could get an education at some of the best schools, do community service in YOUR COMMUNITY ect. I must admit, I just don't understand that. But then again, I Love Delta, and I have a bit of a time understanding why you would choose ANYTHING but. :-)


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If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown

Hello all!!!


I have to agree with Discogoddess in her explanation of affiliation with BGLO's and other Black people on predominantly white college campuses. I had a friend who used to attend all of the "formal" meetings for my Sorority. She did so for about a year or so. We applied at the same time, the whole nine. This was (and still is my GIRL!!!). She was always a little "different" from the other Black students on campus, however, she made it clear that she intended to be active in all African Student Union activities and wrote frequently in the Newsmagazine for African Students. She was down. Nonetheless, (for whatever reason) she ended up joining a white sorority. I don't know what happened to her application for mine, but she just said she decided to go with that sorority. I was like cool. I asked her what she had in common with the women in the sorority. She said she had a lot in common. Something about sisterhood and "community." Point is, we NEVER shunned her. She continued to TRY to be down with the struggle of Black students on campus. She lived with white folks and pretty much really felt she could relate to white people. On top of that, they LOVED her. It was amazing. She was homecoming queen and the whole nine!!!. At UCLA, that is a huge feat considering there have been all of like, what?... 3 or 4 Black homecoming queens. Let me end by saying, that when this young woman became pregnant (after graduation)...NONE of her "sisters" were in attendance at the shower. NOT ONE. Guess who was there? The same Black folks that had her back the whole way through.

I bring this up to say that I truly don't have a problem with "sistahs" joining white sororities. I do however feel that (in some cases) people don't understand the "natural" bond that people of the same cultural (YES, cultural) background have with one another. I would NEVEER leave my sorority sister hanging out to dry the way those women did. Honestly, I feel like if she were white, they would have supported her. Yeah, their chests were all poked out when they could say "Whoo-hoo a Kappa Gamma girl is Homecoming Queen, yeah baby." But when it came time for real emothional support, they were ghost!!! As long as she wore weaves and contats, they were down, when she tried to support causes for Black students (fully donning African laphas and geles, cowrie shells, etc., confused? thing Ericka Badhu), they were GHOST. I am her child's Godmother and that is my Sugar Boogar (the baby). My "sands/LS" is my son's Godmother. Why are her sorority sisters not even remotely present in her life? I feel the bond is somewhat superficial. At least that is MY experience based on what I saw with her. I know that is not the cae for everyone, but damn!!! Not ONE KG girl in attendacne. Not a gift from the whole chapter saying "Hey, sorry we couldn't make it." NOTHING. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

One thing that needs to be understood is that not all colleges have BGLO's, and even though you might still be able to join one, I'm not sure on this, it certainly wouldn't be the same. Besides, the organizations aren't the same as they were 50, 100, 150 or 200 years ago, whatever the case may be. It shouldn't be about who you LOOK more at home with, it should be about who you FEEL more at home with, period.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Steve, can you clarify what you mean by this?
Undergrad and grad chapters of the NPHC orgs have the same rituals, the same National Headquarters, the same rules & regulations, and we work for the same goals, etc. The only difference being that the undergrads may spend a little more time partying and stepping than the grad members, but that's not always the case. We have enough partiers and t-shirt wearers, and if that's the only thing attracting them to the NPHC, we don't need them.


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Kelli
Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.
12-Delta Nu-94
MAL, Southern Region
Savannah State University c/o 1997

All I meant was that you may not get the full experience. I know BGLO's are different that GLO's, but I wouldn't join a fraternity just to be a part of the national organization. I joined my CHAPTER, and became a part of the general fraternity.

Taking part in the philanthropy is a great aspect to being in a fraternity, but the social facet is also a part of this experience. I hope this helps clear up what I was saying.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.

Steve,

I think their is (yet another) fundamental difference between BGLOs and GLOs, and that is: As a general rule, we DON'T pledge a CHAPTER we pledge the NATIONAL ORGAINZATION. I Chose Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Inc., Alpha Theta just happened to be the chapter that was here. If I hadn't wanted to deal with them for whatever reason, I would have done Delta Sigma Theta through an alumnae chapter later. I love and respect the members of my chapter, but in all honesty, that was just happenstance. When you chose an organization that way, what the sorority/fraternity stands for and where it has come from, becomes a whole lot more important. And again, I'm not putting anyone's choice down, but it is just different.

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If you can't raise conciousness, at least raise hell!--Rita Mae Brown

To add to what Gina_Lynn said, we spend a relatively short time (2-3 years) in an collegiate chapter and the rest of our lives (40-60 years) in one or more alumnae chapters. But, if you'd like to think of it in "chapter" terms, yes, I did join A CHAPTER, the Grand Chapter of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

Ok, I see what you are saying, but seriously, every fraternity or sorority has a great cause, at least as far as I know. I know most spend 2-5 years with a chapter, but those are the guys you will live with for those years, and associate with for the rest of your life, unless you decide you made a wrong decision. I think I would feel just as good being a part of ANY general fraternity, but being a part of MY chapter is what makes it special.

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Steve Corbin
Lambda Chi Alpha
Theta Kappa Zeta Chapter
Rose-Hulman Inst. of Tech.