even worse
 

Badges on eBay are bad. They are a symbol of your ritual. But if someone is not a member, they won't know the meaning of it. That is bad. But what I think is even worse is that there is now a ritual on there. I believe the fraternity is defunct but still!! That is just plain disrepectful to read that if you are not a member. The only exposure I've had to any other ritual was when i found my grandfather's mason bible. AS soon as I read the words "below is the ritual of.." i realized what I had and put it down. I would like to read it some day, but only if I become a Mason.

Billy, are you refering to the Ritual of TKE? If so, they are one of the largest Internationals of NIC.

There is a TKE ritual book for sale from the 1950s on ebay. The seller claims that he inherited the book and will not sell it to anyone but a TKE brother.

If he were that charitable, he would send it to TKE HQ...how will he know if the buyer is a TKE..ask him to recite the vow, etc.?:(

You have GOT to be kidding me. Ritual books on ebay?? :eek: Badges are bad enough!!

I would love to know how he got ahold of the ritual book. I thought that the local chapter owns it and if the organization becomes defunct, the book goes back to nationals. I always assumed that was the case.

it is not only distressing to me that he is selling it, but that he has it in his possession at all. i'm assuming he has read it since he listed the contents. reassuringly all of our REAL secrets are only passed on by word of mouth. so anyone reading it wouldn't really know what they are reading about. i'm still pretty pissed though. i wopnder how anyone would be able to get a hold of that, nationals usually keeps tight tabs on ritual equipment.

I am not surprised at all that the TKE ritual is on ebay, afterall, they have like 700 chapters, which means theres like 7,000 TKE ritual books out there. I would be more surprised to see a Delta Phi, Sigma Phi, Alpha Delta Phi or Psi Upsilon book on there....there is a lot less of them. Also, an ATO ritual book was just on ebay last week and a Beta ritual book sold on ebay for over $1200 last year, so like I said, in this day and age, it doesn't surprise me at all.....and we can all thank Al Gore for inventing the info-net.

Oh yeah, the word of mouth thing is true, but trust me when I say there are straight up morons who write the secrets in the books.

No. Actully I was refering to a group called Alpha Phi (not THE Alpha Phi). A copy of their magazine/ ritual book was open describing the ritual, had some lines that are parts of it to be spoken, and showed diagrams of their hand shake. I already posted about that in the APhi forum and they said it was not theirs. But still...that is beyond horrible.

Links are gone.

Yes he is a moron. Ronald is a TKE and none of that stuff he is selling is TKE stuff. Have no idea why he thinks Ronald Regan in a ATO.

The guy said he inherited it from someone when they passed, but he wasnt a TKE either.... so who nows how he got it.... He said he was going to ask a question only a TKE would know for verification.

I bet somewhere in time someone stole the darn book :p

Just wonderin why he'd ask a question only a TKE would know, when its an ATO book? Now officially, hes a moron.

....

ugh, I think we're talking about 3 different things here! lol :confused:

Whoops, my bad. Reagan is still not an ATO. :p

I still feel dirty even knowing what the books LOOK like. :(
this is why ritual books should be property of the fraternity.

I know that this is off subject, but............
 

What could happen to a member if she/he tells any of their GLO secrets? Honest question, please no flaming. Thank you.

YEP
 

Beef, while I do not know what the TKE Ritual looks like, I figure it is none of my Business! I am soory if it is the real thing!

I do not know about other Geeks but ours are accounted for and go back in the safe with the Ritual Equipment each time.

There always going to be Greek Items on any bid site and I try to get important items off. I do not bid against my Fellow Brothers as I check them out on Ebay as they bid.

While I have many Freinds on the site who are from other Greek Orgs., My main concern is my own Fraternity and feel that I want my things with my Fraternity!

I hope none take me wrong on this as I am a total Greek Supporter!

Okay, I'll bite.
 

Okay, I'll bite. When you are initiated, you are asked whether you will keep the ritual of XYZ fraternity or ACB sorority secret. If you say, yes, then you are taking a VOW and yep, people are around to witness your doing so. You are making a verbal CONTRACT.

I think if a person was going to reveal the secrets of their GLO, it would be indicative in their behaviour well before initiation time and thus, they would likely not be initiated, or asked to give some thought as to whether they wish to continue on the path towards initiated membership.

If someone does get initiated, and bears witness to their GLO's secrets and then blabs them all over town, I am not sure what a GLO could do. Perhaps take away their membership and that is all...I don't know if they could be sued in court, but then again as a member, the person did TAKE A VOW and this was WITNESSED by others, so I wouldn't rule out being SUED for fraud as an impossibility.
I am sure that in 99.99% of GLO's, YOU HAVE TO SIGN YOUR NAME too that, as a member, you accept the responsibiity of safeguarding the secrets of your GLO, as a show of good faith, and let's not forget that your signature would make your vow LEGALLY BINDING.

What's more, if someone blabbed around town the secrets, the other members would probably decide to "have some fun with them" and refute what the blabber is saying as being the "real secrets". And then who is going to know who is really telling the truth??

A few hours later....
I also thought I'd mention that to become a member of a GLO can be (in some cases on some campuses) pretty expensive. Dues can be high, but the benefit of this is, upon graduation, you have the benefit of a network of other members who you can potentially speak to about jobs, references, getting introductions to, etc. Sound like pretty good benefits to me!

If a person becomes an initiate and then goes around blabbing the secrets of their GLO, not only will that ex-member alienate themselves from the members of their GLO, but other Greeks likely won't hold them in high esteem either (and I bet GDI's wouldn't as well, after all, this person's "word" is now worthless and should be suspect).
Why would someone want to cut themselves off from such a potentially valuable network?
Becoming a member and then blabbing the secrets thereafter doesn't sound like a good idea to me!

I appreciate what you are saying Cutiepie200, but I am not sure what we swore amounts to a legal non-discolsure agreement with perscribed penalties.

I am sure that losing your affiliation would be a forgone conclusion. Pressing charges would be not advisable because that would bring the Ritual itself under direct scrutiny in a public forum (court).

If someone really wants to babble about it. The best thing to do is ignore it, because who will know the truth anyway? And as Cutiepie2000 said, you can enhance the mystery of the Ritual by subtle hints as to what is true or not.

The biggest downfall of secrecy is probably people telling their significant others. There was a thread on here earlier about women divulging secrets, that may be, but I know of girls whose past boyfriends have divulged way more than they should. But pillow talk is pretty powerful.

Here is a link to a newly posted Phi Delta Theta ritual book on ebay. I don't know why all these are showing up at the same time???

Links are gone.

:eek:

There was a discussion about this(the TKE book) on the mailing list. I kind of agree with what was said...

Basically, just let it go!! By raising a big stink about it we are only increasing the value of the book to outsiders. Making our "secrets" only that much more interesting to them. If you see something, just notify the groups nationals or PM a member. By putting it up here all we are doing is giving them free advertising and raising the value and mystique of the books...

Just my .02

Everyone forget that this is going on please. Its one thing that the books are there, its a whole other thing that we, as greeks, are on this message board posting links to these sales. I wanna kick myself in the ass for clicking on the link to one of those. I cant take it back now but I really wish I could. I have no earthly idea what possesed me to do it, I think that it was out of pure amazement. I really think we should all just act like none of this is going on and let the members of these orgs find these books and return them to their respective orgs. Also, why in the world did one of these books have in big bold letters THE RITUAL OF XYZ. Holy shit. Thats not a real intelligent move by the writer of that book. No disrespect to the time that they put into writing these masterpeices, the tie that binds the members of these fraternities, but I really dont think that having your letters on the first page of the book was such a hot idea. Thats why ritual guides should be set up to where the true secrets can be communicated by mouth, instead of read from paper. The way I see it, and I always have, when you pick up a copy of these manuals, the only way you should know what organization that it belongs to is if you are a MEMBER of that organization. Sorry to get off on a tangent there but I just wanted to point that out.

How can any of us forget this is going on. This is some good $hit, in a bad way. If I wouldn't have posted those sites, everyone would have been the same person they are now anyway (maybe minus a few ulcers here and there). So if you see a link and you think you might just pee your pants when you get there, don't click it.

My house has this great book of secrets, it even says on the binder, "Beta Secrets". Go ahead and tell me you wouldn't pick it up, and I don't think I'd believe you. Anyway, its great. When people open it, acting all sneaky and all, then finger through all 200 pages and realize that its all blank, I do nothing but laugh at them.

So, the next time you are all alone at some old ladies garage sale and see a book stating "XYZ Ritual Book" for $3.50, go ahead an pass on by. Curiousity kills the cat, right? Wrong. This $hit happens every day.

So what did you gain by coming on and splattering the link to the sale all over gc for us to see? Whats your point? You dont think that the greek system is already facing enough adversity? What did you want us all to jump up and down and pee all over ourselves cause someone is out there selling our rituals. I wouldnt read your book, wouldnt even pick it up. Thats out of respect for the men or women that spent countless hours writing it. Your right, curiousity killed the cat, but if a man cant learn to subdue his temptations then he is not a man at all.

The reason why I posted the link, is because that is what this discussion thread is about, right? And that is what Greek Chat is for, right? To discuss issues, notify others of things...etc. Right? Alright then.

I think the main point here is that there's a simple respect involved...

I agree with Billy 100% - if I came onto the site and saw that a link selling my ritual book was posted, I would be heated. Think about it. It's not just Greeks who come and look at this board. It may be mostly Greeks who post, but there are others who have in direct opposition of the Greek system. As an example, think of all the random posts that have come up of people wanting to bash fraternities, sororities, and those who join. Isn't it just a dream for these people to come on and find a direct link of where to find a ritual book? Not everyone here is of the mindset that these things are for only certain eyes, and I'm sure someone would love to spend an extra $200 or some large amount to get their hands on a ritual book.

I can't put into words how angry I would be if I saw a link to a Kappa Sig ritual posted on ebay. I feel horrible for those people who now see links whereby non-members can purchase their secrets. This is something I feel strongly about. Yes, this is a forum on which to discuss issues, to "chit chat" so to speak, but there is still a line that has to be drawn. An issue such as this has to be addressed to the national headquarters of the fraternity in question, not on an open forum such as this.

Collin

Discusion yes, which is alot diffrent than actually having to see it with my own eyes. Discusion such as "Hey GC, what do you think about people selling ritual books on Ebay" Not so much "Holy shit, I found the xyz ritual on ebay, go check it out" Not bashing you man, just trying to make a point. Really, those books are none of anyones buisness that does not belong to this org. Let me also backup what K sig is saying. We have many vistors from this board that come to us courtesy of a board called fraternitysecrets.com. Im sure at least a few of them have seen US yapping about this and are potential buyers. Actually i bet some of em crapped all over themselves at the opprotunity to get those 2 books. I really hope that doesnt happen now and I also hope that a Phi Delt and a TEKE save those books.

Its these little situations like this that we as greeks have to work together on. The events of 2 years ago had some heavy reprocusions on our greek system as a whole and with increased internet traffic, trading secrets and what not is easier now than ever before. When the ties that bind us are lost and exposed, what do we have left?

Each other.

I agree with the respect issue. If I were to happen across a document labeled "The Ritual of XYZ" I wouldn't read it (unless XYZ = AEPhi). By the same token, I'd hope no non-AEPhi's would read the ritual that means so much to me and my sisters.

This is why I appreciate the way the Masons pass on their ritual. My husband is a Mason, and he tells me that most of the secrets are passed on by word of mouth, and written down in code if at all. No chance of stealing and selling the secrets there :)

I am a Mason and no disrespect intended, 99% of your statement is correct, but it saddens me deeply to say this, but Masonry was exposed years and years ago. Same situation as today but a diffrent time period. I wont explain this statement so please dont ask me too.

Please tell your husband that a young brother out here in Ky says hello.

I think this makes all of us feel sick. Ritual books are sacred, and to click on the links (only because I live with a TKE and he wanted to see if it was a ritual book, or what it actually was), I was inclined to click on the Phi Delt one (some from Phi Delt, please take care of this....it shows a picture of a page inside which clearly has something that sure we're all curious about, but made my stomach drop to the floor to see it).

I disagree with someone that said if you were at a garage sale you'd pick up a cheap copy of some ritual book and take a peek. I'm a Tri Sigma and I worked at Tri Delta national headquarters for a while. I never had the inkling to look at anything, and it was all over the place. The first day I found a ritual book in my desk, and immediately picked it up and gave it to a Tri Delta...it even felt weird just to touch it. I took a tour of their storage room and their national ritual equipment was in it, I just turned a head and asked not to be near any of it. It's just respectful.

I live with a TKE and we both have our own ritual books (because we are each national officers) and have never had the inkling to even look at each others books, that's respectful to each other and our organizations.

Interfraternally,

All the links are gone, so all those ritual hackers, who don't have brains to find their stuff elsewhere, cannot find it here. So, everyone, slap a few of these on your face:) :) :) :) :)

Secondly, Ebay gets millions of hits per day, about 1,000 times more than this site, so I would imagine, those ritual books are being looked at without the word of mouth of Greekchat.com

And, take a look at fraternitysecrets.com, and you will notice that everything on there is BS....for the most part. I get a kick out of that place, people getting all worked up over a bunch of fake secrets. Just imagine how many minutes you lose off your life span when you get all worked up over this stuff.

I, by no means, enjoy seeing Phi Delt, TKE and ATO ritual books on ebay more than you. As a matter of fact, I think it sucks. But, I realize that there is nothing I can do about it, other than e-mail their respective HQ and give them a 'Heads Up', and hope that some wealthy alumni will pick it up 'for the good of the fraternity'......just like I did when MY ritual book was on there last year.

Don't fret people, life goes on.

Heres a few more :) :) :) :)

PS, the Masons had a falling out when their stuff was published (somewhat) back in the early 1800's......and yes, that sucked too.

I knew some of the secrets had been exposed, but not all... but I'm not surprised... there's been enough anti-Masonic/anti-secret-society sentiment at various times in our history for it to have happened. In any case, I certainly wouldn't go sniffing around for it :) And the idea of writing things down in code and passing things on primarily by word of mouth is certainly a good one... that way, you can't get at the secrets simply by picking up a book.

I thought there were lots of groups of masons, not just one. :confused:

I didn't read the whole topic, so I don't know if this was mentioned or not. A while ago, there was some guy buying a bunch of KD pins on ebay, for his daughter's collection, I think. No matter what any of us KD's bid, he'd always be able to bid higher. ::Sigh:: one of them was a Gamma Omicron, too, number 612. I know who the pin belonged to. She's in my chapter now. Oh, well. Some people are evil.

It's good to be back, by the way. ^^

Hi,

Well my bros and i are pooling our money to get that phi delt book. I hope we win the auction and keep our ritual to us. To the tke's and ato's out there i hope someone from your organizations get those back.

I emailed my friend who works for Phi Delt GHQ and he said: "yes we've been made aware of the ritual book on ebay, ghq has contacted the fbi and police, stuff like this is no joking matter."

Dunno what the FBI and police can do... :(