Stolen KKG pins! Please help! Pass this along....
 

This is a first for me, and I need to ask for help from anyone on here who has had to deal with stolen badges before.

As many of you may have seen, there are two very beautiful and old Kappa Kappa Gamma badges on eBay or as its said on here "that site". These badges are badge from the early 1900s and belonged to actual siblings.

As it turns out, these pins are stolen pins! These pins along with several other old pins were stolen from a family friend of mine years ago. These pins along with the others were reports stolen over 10 years ago, and they thought that they'd never be able to recover them as they and the police suspected that there had been melted down for scrap gold!

While searching that site, I came upon the current auction and told my friend that I thought they looked familiar, and showed them the auction, to their surprise it was their pins!! These pins had been in the family for decades until they were stolen from their home years ago!

I proceeded to contact the seller to inform him or her of the information about these pins being stolen property, but the seller emailed back with just one sentence that he "bought them from the descendants" and that I am basically full of it!!

Well, needless to say, I had my friend to to contact eBay about these items as well, but they informed them (and to my surprise) that they would need to get the police involved in order to have an auction stopped.....

They have contacted the local police, who are looking into it, but the bad thing is we don't know exactly where this seller is located (other than the state of New Jersey).

So..I came to the only other place I knew where hopefully someone may know or recognize this seller or maybe know a location to where my friends can contact the police to get these pins back.

Anyone who has any knowledge of what they can do to get these back would be most helpful and please PM me or post........

Its great to know that these pins WEREN'T melted down as they had one day hoped to be able to pass these along to their daughters if they ever joined KKG.

I appreciate any advise or info anyone can share, and please know that this has nothing to do with ME, and that I am merely trying to help out a family friend who does not do GC.

**Keeping fingers crossed**
BG

Oh yeah, the pins were from the Spaulding sisters who attended the University of Kansas, and Gertrude had later married a man who was a Sigma Chi. (This info ISNT in the listing, but which is known by the true descendants and rightful owners of the pins!)

I had researched the information posted about the badges last week. It was incredibly easy, even for me with little in the way of research skills, to find the names of the badge owners, their collegiate affiliation, husbands and husbands' Greek affiliations. None of that is proof of anything.

If they filed a police report when they were stolen, it should be easy to get them back...just contact the police and give them the EBAY link. They'll contact EBAY and take the correct steps to get the pins back to the rightful owners. If no police report was ever filed, it will be much harder.

If those were my pins though, I'd absolutely get the police involved ASAP to get them back.

We were concerned about a jurisdiction issue...as we do not live in New Jersey, would a police report, which was indeed filed, would be able to deal with items crossing state lines....I'm not a lawyer or that knowledgeable about such issues....

Thanks.

Yes it would. Jump on it! Get them back!

I'm not a lawyer either, but I'd just guess that if an item is stolen, it doesn't matter where it was found - as long as a police report was filed and the item was unique and identifiable, the police should work with you to get it back. If you show EBAY the police report, that might be enough for them.

Directly from the ebay site, this is what needs to take place, otherwise your "friend" is SOL:


We don't allow stolen property to be sold on eBay. It’s against the law and against eBay policies to sell stolen property.

If you believe that an item on eBay may be a stolen item, please:

1. Get the item number and the seller's user ID.
2. Inform your local police and ask them to get in touch with us. You can find local law enforcement officers on the USACops website.
3. Tell the officers to email us at stopfraud@ebay.com

Please note that we can only investigate such a serious allegation if it comes from the police.

So, BG, you first noticed these badges on 1/19, have been poking around here trying to get posters to provide you background info, have researched all over the place about these badges/ladies, but only last night (1/27) realized that these were stolen from a friend of yours?

Personally, I would think it would be unusual for many items from the same estate to be stolen 10 years ago and then all wind up on a re-sale site the same week. How have they (and by they I don't just mean the two Kappa Keys) remained together this long despite being stolen property? Would be interesting to know.

Good points. Some additional questions come to mind:

Why only ask about the Kappa keys? What about the other items? Why here?

I wonder if this seller knows that he is being accused of selling stolen property? Interfering in someone's ability to make a living is not a good idea.

As reported, ebay has a very strong policy in place re: stolen property. For a seller to feign surprise at their policy is duplicitousness. There's no need to cross fingers. Simply have the police contact ebay if the story being told has merit or veracity. That's all.

I have to say you totally rock for bringing up all all these extremely valid points, ComradesTrue! :D

You are very correct in that I have been doing research. That's my passion. I keep tabs on all sorts of pins and memorabilia being sold on eBay and other sites. I take the pictures, if they are good and use them for my website and planned update to the old Bairds manuals. I have photos and info on all sorts of old pins and new ones, and from defunct groups. In regards to THESE pins, they are in fact from a box of jewelry that was stolen from a friend over ten years ago....

To see these pins pop up was a surprise to my friend as we had thought surely these pins would have been melted down. The timing is odd, yes, but my hunch is that this seller, who may have acquired these pins years ago from the thief or they have been passed around since they were stolen....I do not know that answer. An email to the seller did not reveal anything other than he was not willing to listen to my friends information and questions.
I also suspect that this seller may have had these pins for awhile and saw that older KKG key sell for a good deal of money and thought about trying to "cash in" on the same type of pins.

The bad part is that if the police aren't able to stop the auction by the end of the auction, then whoever does "buy" these may be out the pins and the money should the police be able to investigate and retrieve the items.

Personally, I have never had something like this come up to me, and so yes I am a little nieve on how the process works. So thanks to those who did supply the info.

I'm sure if anyone else had had this happen to them they would do whatever was possible to get their items back as well.

I will always try to help out friends whenever possible and should I ever come across any other pins from any org where I learn they were stolen, I'd so whatever I could to ensure those items returned to their owners!

Thanks
BG

You're welcome. It was simple to go to ebay and get the right answer.

ebay stops the auction. The buyer (if it isn't stopped) isn't out anything, as the items will be confiscated, the buyer will have $ refunded per ebay policies. You just need to read.

As a seller, why should he listen to an anonymous message without any verification? Your "friend" probably filed a police report and an insurance claim. Remember, recovered property belongs to the insurance company. Did you forget about that detail? The insurance company MAY allow the owner to buy the items back. And that is another conversation.

I don't buy your story badgeguy, but whatever.

Regarding Kappa keys, the Keepers of the Key would appreciate if GCers (or anyone else) do not bid on our keys on ebay. We have a group of very dedicated women who rescue these from ebay, and they will outbid anyone. Sisters can then reimburse the keepers for these keys if they are interested in them.

Personally I think it it utter garbage that you are publicly trashing this seller and calling him out for knowingly selling "stolen" merchandise. Who are you to make that assessment?

If your "friend" has a police report, go through the channels and have the listing ended per eBay policy, plain and simple. Plus, I'm sure your "friend" was smart enough to have the pins insured so he was compensated for his loss, right?

Oh and am I to assume the KKG spoons the seller is also selling were also kept in the same "box of jewelry"? Because I know I keep all my grandmothers flatware in my jewelery box for safekeeping.

This is a note from my friend: "That besides priceless family pins that were stolen... Both of your friends personal badges from their F&S were stolen along with the Keys.. And most if their honor pins... PBK. ODK etc were stolen as well ... And they never dreamed after this long that anything would surface.... And are now hoping that this might lead to the recovery of their own original badges... How would they/GC feel if their original badge was stolen ? Anyone would want their original badge back... and this is the first time in over 14 years we have ever had any hope of that ever happening!"

The same seller who when asked by the KKG historian to "donate" the pins was told to put on a bid like everyone else??

As far as the other stuff that is not stuff from my friend. The keys so far are they only things to have shown up after all these years, as for the other stuff stolen who know of any of that is still around, it may have already been melted down.....these obviously were kept because someone, whoever obtained these from the person who stole them in the first place must have thought they'd be worth something someday......

I just hope if anyone else were in this situation that there would be others willing to try and help.

Thanks
BG

The seller has a right to sell the badges. That is not in dispute and the KKG historian asked if they were willing to sell directly to them them and just because the seller wants to sell does not make them a bad person or a thief. Sellers on ebay are in business to make money, plain and simple.

That being said, your "friend" just needs to handle it through ebay with a police report. How are you not seeing the simplicity of that? Stolen jewlery = filed police report.

Personally I feel you are utterly full of crap, but that is just my opinion. You are a seller on ebay yourself, you know the routine, and just want these badges so you can turn around and eventually sell them yourself for a jacked up overinflated price after coveting them yourself for a while. Do you really think people fall for your schtick?

*corrected to indicate the correct working from the Kappa historian*

The only ones who can help are the police, or perhaps the insurance company.

It's simple- get the original police report on the theft sent to ebay. I am assuming that they filed with their insurance company - you could also have the insurance company submit their report.

I've dealt with stolen merchandise on ebay before - it's easy peasy, lemon squeezey.

eta - Apparently, great Gamma Phi Beta minds think alike!

I concur.

Here's the KKG historian's polite message to the seller, just to clear up any misperceptions or misunderstandings that might arise from using the word "donate" in quotes.

I am the staff archivist and museum curator for Kappa Kappa Gamma. I recently learned of your auction and was immediately intrigued by the badges and their connection to a Civil War veteran. Is there a chance you would be willing to sell the badges directly to our organization? Their historical significance to Kappa Kappa Gamma is great as we work to interpret the history of our organization in the context of the women's movement. We have two Victorian house museums in which we display pieces like these badges to share the history of women and how traditional roles in society began to shift at the close of the Civil War. As a nonprofit organization we are unable to devote great resources to acquire objects for our exhibits and rely heavily on donations. But as we prepare to celebrate our 150th Anniversary in 2020, we do have some resources that can be put towards the purchase of objects intended for display and interpretation. Thanks for considering, Kylie Towers Smith, Archivist/Cura


The insurance company will definitely be interested in recovering stolen property. Why haven't they been contacted to get involved?

And so that you can draw your own conclusions, here is the seller's equally courteous and polite response:

Thanks for you email Kylie, As you can see from the bidding several collectors have interest in these pieces. Some may be looking to add these unusual pieces to their own collection. I was glad that an Internet search turned up their father's Civil War connection. He must have been proud to have his daughters achieve a high degree of education around the turn of that century. I have to be fair to all so I must continue the auction. If you are not the high bidder on these pieces I can certainly pass your Ebay name onto the winning bidder. I am sure they will be glad to contribute information, photos, etc. of scarce or unusual pieces from their own collection to assist you in keeping the history of Kappa Kappa Gamma alive and open to all of those interested in the wonderful achievements of that fine organization. Best of luck, Brian from Estateauction

So in other words, the seller isn't a the total douche canoe like BadgeGuy is making him out to appear.

^^^ winner winner chicken dinner!

No, I have absolutely no interest in these pins, EVEN if they weren't stolen!
Yes the seller is not the one who stole these pins (as far as I know) you are are right that the police need to handle this. But the timing will be close and if they can't have the auction ended in time, then whoever the high bidder is, may be out of the pins and the money should the police find that these are the pins in question......

Police in a small town may not act as quickly as police in a bigger city, and this certainly isn't a "major heist" and it's up to that police dept to handle it in their way.

I just wanted to alert people to this situation incase there are any others out there who may be dealing with the same thing.

I am full aware if how eBay works, and that can sometimes be the problem! If someone does get badges or jewelery stolen, and someone else lists it, then all the other people who start bidding on these items have no way of knowing what the situation is.

The fact of the matter is that my friend alerted me to a situation in the so called 11th hour because they were not looking for their badges be user they had no clue they still existed....hoped, but not expected.

I am just trying to help a friend....nothing else.

Because insurance companies cannot deal with eBay, only the police can....if they get to it in time or better, if eBay gets the message in time to do something about it.

So if this is the case then why am I being targeted in reference to the old 1885 pin?? I'm sure the Keepers were able to get it according to your post!

But, that is a discussion for another thread....

If the insurance company paid out, they are in fact now the owners of the badges, so they should indeed contact e-bay. They will also have a copy of the police report as part of their file. A few strokes of the computer keyboard and all is taken care of - ta da!

Oh, you do understand ebay policies? Good. Regardless, the insurance company will want their property, which they now own as they paid the owners for it. They will definitely bring pressure to bear on ebay. Then it is a matter between your "friends" and their insurance company.

ebay does not want to get shut down for selling stolen property.

This is not rocket science.

I can practically hear the Law & Order "Doink, Doink"...we need to alert Briscoe and Green.

...

Not sure how a simple question led to two pages of interrogation. Badgeguy, I hope your friend contacts the police and gets her badges back. I know people often insure their badges, but a replacement doesn't have that sentimental value. Good luck!

Interrogation? Oh please...it was just people pointing out the obvious.

And yes, I truly hope the badges are returned to the rightful owners, who in my eyes...are the sisters of KAPPA KAPPA GAMMA.

Yes, badges of this significance belong in one of our museums.

Shame on you for telling this lie and trying to tarnish the reputation of the KKG archivist. :mad:

Since the seller refuses to cancel the sale until this is resolved, as he could/should have done, I wonder if someone could bid really high in order to ensure that they are the high bidder and then refuse to pay until the seller can prove legal ownership. There is still 2 1/2 hours left.

Not really an option. If the buyer refuses to pay up promptly, the badges are simply not shipped & go back up for another auction. The seller has no obligation to prove legal ownership.

It is ridiculously simple to get the auction stopped IF there is legitimate proof that they were stolen.

Possible silver lining - if the top bidder refuses to pay, there is no requirement for them to be offered to auction again. Perhaps the seller would then just sell to Kappa IHQ.

I wasn't telling a lie, I was trying to point out that the seller was not even interested in ending the auction for the sorority to which these pins are from...

Shame on on YOU for inferring something other than what I wrote!!!!

You wrote:" The same seller who when asked by the KKG historian to "donate" the pins was told to put on a bid like everyone else?? "

The lie is the use of the word "donate" - the Kappa did not ask for a donation; she asked to be allowed to purchase the badges.

This does not require inference; it is simple documented fact. It is what you wrote, in an apparent attempt to besmirch the seller.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

eta - Apparently I didn't use enough hyperbolic punctuation - here you go. !!!!????