Arizona State University - TKE
 

This does not look good for the fraternity system at ASU.

They were literally just reinstated on campus and now this. In my opinion, right now the biggest threat to fraternity life at ASU is the fraternities themselves.

What does it take to realize these parties are dumb? It's not even "offensive" anymore in terms of being angry. Now it's just hilarious that they are so dumb. Attention whores, maybe?

ETA: LOL. I just saw the photos. Are they serious? And people wonder why race relations are the way they are. They are the way they are because people (usually white people--sorry :p) can be polite and claim kumbaya and then do dumb crap like this in their spare time.

I am seriously beginning to think the fraternity system at ASU wants to be shut down completely. With this and the events last year, they are well on their way to pushing the administration past the breaking point.

I feel this way about a few schools that I know.

The system would just go underground and the issues would just get worse.

Here is an update..

Kevin, I'm not sure about the system going underground, I honestly don't know enough about ASU/Tempe even though it's just 110 miles or so to the north. What I am concerned about is the situation with the ABOR (Arizona Board of Regents) and the close scrutiny they have placed the greek systems of all three state universities under (NAU, ASU, UA). This has the potential to have far-reaching consequences beyond TKE at ASU.

DrPhil, this is way past dumb in my book. Way past.

I don't understand why this doesn't begin and end with TKE.

Because a student died last year and now administration has Greek life in their crosshairs.

Kevin, if I could find the letter sent to the Greek Life Offices of all three state universities, I'd share it here. I'll look for it this weekend (crazy busy the rest of this week). This is a huge issue state-wide.

When we people realize that racially themed parties are NEVER A GOOD IDEA?

It's racist, tacky, unbecoming and embarrassing for you, your chapter and your national org.

It's a huge school. I mean, per capita, more kids are going to die there than other places.

Since this is about more than GLO reputation and school reputation:

1. When whites (in general) realize they, too, have a race and whiteness is not race neutral. Things don't start "being about race" only when racial and ethnic minorities enter the picture. Things were always about race. /white privilege

2. When whites (in general) stop believing there is a such thing as "colorblind". /white privilege

2. When whites use their White People Monthly Meetings (the same as the Black People Monthly Meetings that Blacks joke about having) to tell these dumb white people to stop having these parties.

Until the above things happen, schools can stop the dumb white people from doing this at one school but dumb white people will still do this at another school. The dumb is contagious.

Bright side - at least there didn't seem to be any black face going on?:rolleyes:

A silver lining, indeed.

Having a fraternity member die at a social event and his body being found days later in a ditch will likely bring the administration down on any Greek system. Having that followed up by several other violent incidents makes it much worse. I understand you have a freedom of association bent, Kevin , but seriously it doesn't take much to Google ASU.

My college best friend lives just miles away from ASU and she and her husband are planning on sending their kids out of state. They cite the careless party culture at ASU as the reason.

It would be one thing if this were an isolated incident but the list of negative fraternity related incidents at ASU in the last year isn't short at all. I've employed members of this and other groups and I know these actions are only a small part of the Greek system but it most be admitted that some type of change needs to happen if fraternity life at ASU is to continue. They have painted a huge bull's eye on themselves and now there are repercussions.

I appreciate that you understand that there is such a thing as freedom of association. That means that whether or not ASU wants a fraternity system, one is going to exist. They can either keep it associated with the fraternity system and try to regulate it in cooperation with national organizations or they can have a totally unregulated system of local and some national fraternities. They cannot stop people from associating in fraternal systems. It's not within their power.

That said, there are steps they could take, for example, requiring each house to have a residential advisers who could counsel the organizations and report illegal conduct to the authorities. Headquarters could send down consultants to reorganize chapters, etc. Tabula rasa isn't realistic and would probably have more negative unintended consequences than benefits.

Yeah, we all understand that. Administrations don't always. Some ASU fraternities have been out of control (I won't paint them with a broad brush) and as Maria said the state sent out a letter regarding Greek life due to their antics. I don't know how much you know about AZ but it's not a state known for careful consideration before action. It is incumbent upon the Greek system to police itself before something worse happens. As you said, underground groups would be much worse, so where are the organizations making sure that their chapters are in line with regulations? The college administration will be sued for student deaths just as readily as any of these fraternities, so at least they are making a show of being interested.

LOL. With all due love and respect, what in the shit are you all typing about? The larger issue isn't ASU Greek Life. The larger issue is racialized dumbassness. Hiding this behind Greekdom is why stuff like this keeps happening.

Anderson Cooper had this on his Ridiculist last night. I don't agree with his constant use of "frat" and his perceived tone regarding Greekdom but I can get over it for the larger point.

This is one symptom of a much larger problem here. It's cultural and dressing up in racially offensive dress and posting it on Facebook is not the only thing happening. A kid died of alcohol poisoning not too long ago. This is just an example of an out of control culture.

Some national organizations, TKE, in particular, at least in my experience take a pretty hands-off approach to out-of-control chapters. As to my organization, we shut down our chapter there in April of 2012, probably after noting the cultural issues, with plans to reopen in 2016.

I've seen first-hand what good can come from shutting down a chapter and rebuilding it with a more values-based approach. As an organization, we've had a lot of success with that.

But to say this is just a racial thing isn't accurate. It's bigger than that.

I disagree. Greek Life isn't bigger than race. Ever.**
Putting the "Greek Life bandaid" on this will keep these parties happening if not at ASU then at other campuses. People will just decrease posting photos on social media.

The idiots at ASU have "Greek Life problems". But if these parties were primarily about "Greek Life problems" then they could have thought of millions of other dumbass things to do in the name of "Greek Life problems."

**If this story was about a fraternity that was overtly sexist and misogynist towards women people would be mostly discussing the larger dynamic of sexism and misogyny. Sure, that fraternity may have "Greek Life problems" but people would be wondering why in the hell these fraternity members chose to express their "Greek Life problems" in this particular manner. It would be indicative of a larger culture of sexism and misogyny. It is unfortunate that people can grasp this when discussing other social dynamics except race and ethnicity.

You're entitled to your opinion. Agree to disagree.

Well the race thing is one of many problems stemming from a larger issue--that these kids come from mostly privileged backgrounds where this sort of thing is acceptable. In many cases, this goes beyond even Greek Life to being a cultural issue.. and not a new one by any stretch.

There are overtly sexist party themes everywhere too and probably a lot more accepted. And wow this is being blown out of proportion. Boycotts? calls to expel students? Yikes. I actually find that sort of reaction more offensive than any of those photographs.

Do you realize you are saying the same thing that I am saying? You are simply calling it a "larger cultural issue" (you now are using "culture" to mean something larger than Greekdom--that's good). It is R-A-C-E. Social class is highly correlated with R-A-C-E. White college students from mostly privileged backgrounds who mock racial and ethnic minorities are doing it based on R-A-C-E. Social class and privileged background vary by R-A-C-E. After all, those idiots at ASU weren't mocking their fellow white people. You can keep calling it "culture" if you choose (white people tend to play word games because it keeps the warm and fuzzy going) but that does not stop it from being R-A-C-E.

Now that we've got that ironed out, I'm glad you were honest about what "culture" means in this instance and stopped playing the "Greek Life problems" game. :)

So having members die from alchol poisoning is a race problem?

Interesting.

Kevin, if I didn't know better, I would think that you are being deliberately obtuse and provoking (not provocative, I don't know you personally).

There are two things going on here: Racial insensitivity, and a Greek system that is messed up.

I'll find the ABOR letter so you can see the issues with the Greek system.

Is that what was happening at that racially themed party? Cool.

I wonder why every thread about racially themed parties has not boiled down to a discussion of "Greek Life problems." Interesting.

An interesting look at the Greek organizations in AZ. I know this list isn't all inclusive of all the issues but gives a good overview. Gives an idea of the variety of issues that are the base of this problem.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/projects/fraternities/

Kevin, I agree.

Is this particular incident about race? Yes. Are the overall problems with Greek life at ASU/in Arizona about race? No.

I believe that's the basic point you were getting at, correct?

Now I know that is what he was attempting to convey. Thanks for interpreting. ;)

(I don't care about Greek Life at ASU/in Arizona and I never said their overall Greek Life problems are about race.)

I thought Kevin was saying that the stupidity of throwing a racially themed party was a result of a larger issue with the culture of Greek Life/problems with Greek Life. I'm still amused that this thread became about ASU problems with Greek Life instead of a discussion of why racially themed parties keep happening. Even the greatest Greek system in the world can have members who think a racially themed party is a good idea.

Pretty much.

Interesting.

If you agree that this particular issue of racially themed parties is about race then, going back to the point of my original posts, what in the shit are you all talking about? LOL. Why are you all pretending as though the larger issue that deserves more discussion is "problems with Greek Life"? That Band-aid is worn and needs to be changed.

Ok?

FYP. ;)

I think none of us wanted to get into a discussion of why young white students feel the need to be racially insensitive. Personally I feel it is because they are ignorant. The AZ Greek Life discussion is an ongoing underlying thread that many of us have been following for awhile now. This is just more kindling on the fire.

Not really. Alcohol and drug abuse, hazing, racial insensitivity, these are all issues--and out of those, only racial insensitivity won't get anyone physically hurt or killed.

If you believe that then your head is up your ass. What world do you live in?

And the fact that you believe that confirms that the larger issue that needs discussion is racial cluelessness and dumbassness---if the prevalence of these events is of concern rather than merely seeing this as further evidence of Greek Life problems.

One incident or even a few =/= a prevalence.

TKE did something very ill advised, Alpha Delta Phi, Alpha Sigma Phi, Chi Phi, Delta Chi, Delta Kappa Epsilon, Delta Sigma Phi, Delta Tau Delta, Delta Upsilon, Kappa Alpha Order, Kappa Sigma, Lambda Chi Alpha, Omega Delta Phi, Phi Gamma Delta (FIJI), Pi Kappa Alpha, Pi Kappa Phi Sigma Alpha Mu, Sigma Chi, Sigma Phi Beta, Sigma Phi Epsilon, Sigma Tau Gamma, Theta Chi, Theta Delta Chi and Zeta Beta Tau did no such thing.

You've got to keep things in perspective.

And in other news, ASU has severed ties with TKE, but it appears the TKE chapter will stay at ASU and just be undergroundish, no university support, but full support from the home office.

Has there only been one "or even a few" of these incidents across the country in the past 5 years?

Incidents are examined in prevalence when there is a pattern of occurrence. It is easy to predict and detect racially themed parties with and without social media. Even a Greekchat search for "racially themed patterns" reveals how these parties are more common than they should be and that includes MLK parties.

TKE is not the only fraternity (or white people in general) across the country that has done one of these parties.