Can People Change?
 

What if you knew someone from your past, who is now a pastor at a church, but that person's past persona, if you will, was one of being an extremely not-really-a-nice-person ( without going into any details )?

Would you discretely visit their church? Listen to one of their sermons online?

No, I don't think people really change. Especially terrible people who go into the clergy. They may have learned how to talk the talk of God. They may even write some good material and say what they say. At their core though, they are who they are.

Yes, people can change. It doesn't mean that everyone has to be open to their change. The world doesn't revolve around us therefore we don't need to be open to their change in order for it to occur and for there to be positive outcomes. I see this topic how I see humans, in general. Everyone has some shit with them and you would smell their shit if you walked in their shoes, knew everything there was to know about them, or knew what they were thinking. Everyone gets on at least one other person's nerves and that includes the holier than thou people of the world. Everyone has at least one person who thinks they are batshit crazy or worth avoiding. And everyone...I mean everyone...has at least one person who wonders why and how in the hell other people find their jokes funny or enjoy being around that person. With all of that in mind, it is important to remember that even the most heinous offenders have at least one person who loves them--even if from afar.

Also, it depends on what you mean by persona of "not-a-really-nice-person".

What's the purpose? Are you bored? Are you a private investigator? Are you a journalist? Are you just curious?

If I was curious, I may listen to a sermon online. I may also visit the religious institution. However, I have nothing to hide so it wouldn't be in secret. It would be discreet in terms of having good judgment and poise. I wouldn't do any of this with the purpose of putting the person on blast. I also wouldn't do it with the purpose of acting as though my approval makes the world go 'round. As long as this person is living a lawful life, "God bless us everyone" like Tiny Tim.

What Dr. Phil said.

I definitely think people can change, depending on life circumstances and other events. I'm not the same person I was in high school or college. But with regard to a personality change that drastic, I personally would question whether that person had it in them all along to be like that.

I personally might go to their church or listen to a sermon or two online, as long as I didn't have moral objections to the church itself. The only reason I might be discreet about it is if there's personal bad blood between the two of you, and I might not even attend the church if that were the case.

I don't trust the motivation of MANY people who enter the clergy, so I wouldn't be confident in this person's turnaround. But it's none of my business. If this isn't your your church it doesn't matter if the guy is like the kid in There Will Be Blood. Buy hey, if you feel the spirit move you, go for it.

This. All of this.

I knew a woman who was a terrible person to me. At some point she went on an apology tour and sent me a message with a blanket apology for unspecified things she had done to me.

I accepted her apology, but I still don't trust her. Never will. And not interested in her sermons.

Of course people can change.
People change because of events and people they meet daily in their lives.

People I met early in my life who were unkind and met say at reunions were totally different people as they grew older.

Behavior changes, people hardly ever do.

People have the capacity to change. Some do, and some don't.

A tree is known by the fruit it bears. Over time, people who really do change consistently carry themselves in a different, more "reformed" (for want of a better term) way.

As to the church thing, do what you feel. If you don't feel confident in that person's leadership (for whatever reason), go elsewhere. Why would anyone sit up under leadership they didn't trust?

Last point ... if you deny others' capacity to change, do you deny the same possibility for yourself?

I think people can change, especially if something significant has happened in their lives that made them really evaluate themselves. My father is a significantly different person since his first heart attack which helped him realize what is truly important in life.

I completely agree. I also think that during certain periods of life people can change. I am a completely different person now that I'm a college student than I was when I was in high school. I had some things happen to me that helped me mature and grow significantly.

I don't think people change who they really are. I had this very same conversation with a friend of mine this past weekend. She's just out of a relationship and is on the rebound. She has started seeing a new guy who "has a past". Alcoholism, drug addiction, and beating the living crap out of his ex-girlfriends. My friend is all, "But he's been sober for five years", and "He's been really upfront with me about his past and the things he's done", and "But no one is the same person they were in the past". That's all fine and nice, but honestly, a leopard doesn't change his spots. Those violent, destructive qualities are still part of who he is as a person, even though they may be somewhat under wraps due to sobriety. I hope she is never unfortunate enough to experience that first-hand. :(

"extremely not-really-a-nice-person" as in "picked on me in grade school" or as in "likes to beat puppies and other small mammals to death"?

If the first kind, let it go and accept the change. If the second, it might be worth more investigation

Sorry for all of the ambiguity but I was just wanting to pose a philosophical question, as I was looking up someone online that I had not seen or heard from in over 25 years and discovered that they had become a pastor of a church.

As for the phrase "not-so-nice" past, I was trying to not actually go into details about that individual. Plus, I have no intention of visiting their church but with today's internet databases, I think I would just listen to one of their online sermons to see what it is they are preaching.

There's a huge difference between asking whether people can change in general and whether a specific person had changed. In general, yes it is possible for people to change, but that doesn't mean that everyone who claims to have changed really has. "Can people change" seems to me to be a rather useless question. "Has this person changed?" (or "Can this person change?") seems to me to be the question worth asking.

As for the clergy angle, the clergy are no different from any other occupation in that people go into it for a variety of reasons. I've had reason to know lots of clergy over the years (many of whom are kin), and for the most part the clergy I've known went into with the best of motives. But sure, there have been some that didn't, or that should've done something else.

For many years, I worked closely with lots of psychologists, and I came to the conclusion that there are basically two reasons that people go into that profession: a sincere desire to help others or an unconscious desire to figure out their own problems. I wouldn't be surprised if something similar holds for members of the clergy.

I'd say the same thing applies to the field of social work. At least, it's something I've noticed in the students I meet who are working towards a BSW. Whether that dichotomy still exists outside the classroom, I don't know. But it's definitely noticeable IN the classroom.

I agree with Kevin to a large extent. I also believe people are who they are based on their inner core. I believe this is based on the mind, because it stores all data from our past experiences, conversations, and observations and these things can greatly influence decisions. The inner core of the way we are as individual people comes from our parents, relatives, teachers, friends and people we decide to associate ourselves with. This is why (to me) it makes common sense that our self-image, self-worth, mental attitude and self-confidence rises and/or falls dependent to a large extent on that of our trainers and the things we are exposed to throughout our lives.

Do I think people can change? Absolutely. Just as bad people can change to good people, good people can change to bad people. I think much depends on how that person chooses to put their life together. To me, in order for a person's life to truly work, that person has to be open to change. However, your (in general) character is the only reference people have to who you are, although you may have changed. This is why I believe it is important for each of us to consider the end of our actions and/or words as we meet and interact with others. First impressions are lasting ones.

IMO, I think the bottom line is you have to know you need direction in order to receive it, which means you have to be willing to admit your weaknesses, shortcomings and failures, because each and every one of us has them. After all, how you start is only half of it. How you finish is the sum of your total life, I believe.