Time to End Lavaliering?
 

TJ Sullivan, who I'm sure many of you know, had a very interesting blog post the other day. It was brought to my attention by one of my brothers.

The rest of the article is here:

http://tjsullivan.com/lavaliering/

Where do y'all come down on the traditions of lavaliering? And how about badge wearing? In my fraternity, the fiancée (I'm thinking not fiancé), wife (not husband), mother and daughter can wear the badge. Is this something which needs to be rethought?

Whoa. This one will take some thought but here's another theory to ponder: what if the same-sex significant other is a gentleman of another fraternity?

Mr. Kevin, what fraternity is Mr. Sullivan in?

Edited to add: oops, I think I found it. Is he a Pi Kappa Phi?

Yes, he is a founding brother of the Pi Kappa Phi chapter at Indiana and fellow journalism major! We worked together at a summer job in college. Great guy.

Sorry, but this sounds like someone being a cynical prick about a nice tradition - and I don't think the gay issue has anything to do with it. I've heard straight people say the same sorts of things (when there was no lavalier on the horizon). I also really detest when people act like if the NPHC doesn't do something they must be right. It's "sorry I'm white" self-loathing and completely ridiculous.

If you don't like it, don't do it. And the only letters you need to.worry about are your own. This article just makes him sound like a big whinypants.

ETA: I also love when people advocate premature marriage proposals just because they don't like lavaliering. If you would say the 2 are on the same level, you really just don't get it.

People have said similar things on GC over the years.

I don't know why he would care about an NPHC perspective but I don't see his response as "white self-loathing". I see it as needing support for his argument that lavaliering is outdated and dumb. It is probably less difficult to find such support in the GLO communities that are historically and predominantly racial and ethnic minorities.

Not like my opinion matters but the following is my perspective. I typically don't like traditions that I consider to be rooted in patriarchy and sexism disguised as "awww my partner gave me a loving gift through his GLO". But I can get over myself and not be too opposed to lavaliering--again, not like my opinion matters. I do believe that it should apply to same-sex couples IF some same-sex couples are interested. Not every same-sex couple is interested just as not every heterosexual couple is interested. If the same-sex partner is in another fraternity, he needs to defer to his fraternity's protocol and policies. If his fraternity frowns upon wearing another fraternity's symbols, do NOT do it. Being lavaliered by the man you love doesn't trump your own fraternity's policies and practices.

This!

LOL. You caught me mid-edit

Twenty + years ago, my sisters exchanged lavaliers with their boyfriends. He wore her letters on a chain and she wore his. A gay couple could do the same. If the sig other is in another fraternity, they could wear engraved letters, with the boyfriend's letters below his own letters. There are a number of places that sell engraved dogtags with fraternity letters.

Women who are pinned usually wear their boyrfriends' below their own pin. Same principle.

That said: After breaking up with my boyfriend from freshman and sophomore year, I didn't truck with lavaliers or wearing letters much. He was crazy jealous and the "wearing letters" thing was too much like wearing a "no trespassing" sign or a dog tag. It was a sign of ownership. Bleh.

What Dr. Phil said.

This reminds me of something that is in my Mom's jewelry box to this day. When she was an undergraduate in the early 70's, (for the first time, she recently graduated :D) our cousin was president of Omega Psi Phi at their university. With his urging my mother became an Omega Pearl (an auxilary group that helped the chapter with projects and community service). Pearls also helped pledges throughout their process. She began to date one of the new initiates (with my cousins permission of course) and he gave her a necklace with an Omega Psi Phi charm. She's had the necklace since then, even though she ended up just being friends with the guy she was dating. She married a member of "Football Phi Football" as my father calls it :rolleyes:.

Anyway, she's never worn the necklace or anything crazy. It was just a gift she appreciates. I think that there's nothing wrong with the tradition. Perhaps maybe it should be more private (for everyone...opposite sex/same sex)? As far as two men who are in fraternal organizations, I agree with Dr. Phil that protocol may be a thing to look at. Or should only happen when one is engaged or on a wedding day? Lol! I'm just rambling now. I thought I would just put my .13 cents on this topic. :cool:

TJ is not always right about everything. I'm sure his partner doesn't want a lavalier now...but what about when they were active in college? Things may have been different. Not all straight or gay couples may find this practice to be important, but for those who do, to each their own.

I'm a traditionalist at heart and I have to say it makes me very sad to think about the end of lavaliering. I don't see it as a gay / straight issue but rather a sign of affection between two young people and a sign of tradition. This may be long but I would like to share 2 of my most cherished memories involving "pinning". The first is about my Father-in-law who suffered from Alzheimer's. At one point he had "gone back in his mind" to where he thought he was 19 years old and in University. He very sweetly and solemnly asked me one night at dinner if I would "wear his pin". My husband was amazed that his father not only still had his pin and knew where it was, but also that he "remembered" what pinning was. I accepted his phi-delt pin with all of the love that a 19 year old girl would have had. I keep it in my jewelry box and I LOVE looking at it and remembering that dear sweet man. (I have also joked with my husband asking where HIS pin is...:confused::p:D)

My second cherished memory involves my own father who passed away 6 years ago. I recently was "brave enough" to sort through his "catch-all" box that my mother had given me. Inside I found a Chi-Omega badge (Not my GLO). I knew it had to belong to an old family friend whom my father had dated in college and who had written my Chi-O rec when I was going through rush. I called her explaining that I had found a badge and wondered if it was hers as I would like to return it. She started crying. She still had my fathers Sigma-Nu pin!!! She asked that I keep her badge as she did not want to part with my fathers and that she would make sure it was returned to me after she was "gone". This touched me so greatly that she wanted to not only hold on to a piece of her youth and a piece of my father but also wanted me to hold on to it as well. They obviously never married, didn't even date past college, but clearly both cared enough to hold on to each other's badges for more than 50 years. I LOVE owning her pin almost as much as I would love to have my father's for the simple reason that it makes me closer to him in a way that ordinarily I never would have been and it helps me know the man he was before he was "dad".

Without the tradition of pinning or lavaliering I would not have either of these memories. If you do away with the tradition how many future memories are you taking away from the next generation. I know VERY few people that ended up marrying the person they were lavaliered or even pinned to in college, but I do know most of them still cherish that time in their lives and that symbol. Greek life is such a huge part of your life at that age and to a GLO member sharing their letters is the "ultimate" in sharing their love. IMHO part of what makes Greek Life so special and important is the carrying on of traditions. You celebrate the same creed, the same rituals and same values that all of your sisters and brothers before you did. You pass down to the next pledge class these traditions and the same love for the sister/brotherhood. Pins and lavalieres are part of this tradition. If you take away this simple act of two young people (gay or straight) sharing their letters-a tradition that has been shared since the beginning of GLO's- then you in essence taking away part of the history that binds individuals to their GLO.

:) Lavaliering is probably not going anywhere. This author is expressing an opinion. He isn't the first person to do so. All is right with the world.

By the way, saying "(gay or straight)" operates with the premise that it is so obvious and accepted that it goes without saying. Of course that isn't true which, as far as some people are concerned, is one reason to challenge certain traditions.

You have a big heart. :) I don't think I would be able to view this situation with the same generous spirit. I'd be bothered by the fact that she wanted to keep my father's badge...50 years later and she wasn't my mother/the woman he married, and by the fact that she didn't want to get her own badge back in return.

Lavaliering was affectionately referred to as "the kiss of death" for relationships at UCF. Once a girl was lavaliered, break-up was imminent. This was the rule, rather than the exception. But the girl got her candle lighting out of it, and the guy had to endure some ridiculous razzing from his fraternity brothers (which typically involved running down Greek Park and being thrown into Lake Claire).

I think it is a dumb tradition, and so is pinning, but I don't think that it should end because it is meaningful to many Greeks. And it shouldn't matter what gender you are. Love is love. If you want to argue that a guy shouldn't lavaliere/pin his boyfriend because that boyfriend is not a member of the fraternity, the same argument can be made for why a woman should not be allowed to wear a man's letters.

sciencewoman- I would have been bothered by the fact if she HAD wanted her badge back and did not want to give up my fathers... but the simple fact that both had had each other's pins for 50+ years all I could think of was the memories that they must have carried for each other. I like knowing that I own something that meant so much to my father that he didn't throw it away and that she feels the same. Imagine how crushing it would have been to find out she didn't have my dad's pin or worse that she had lost it or thrown it away. I know the pin is where it is safe and cherished. She knows the same about hers. My mother was never in a GLO as she went to an all girls college and the badge would have meant nothing to her- she probably would have tossed Dad's pin years ago during spring cleaning had she ever been in possession of it- ha ha ha.... my parents were married for 41 years and were deeply in love with each other. I look at the pin not so much as a symbol of "old love" but as a fond memory of a happy time in each of their lives.

At my school, your lavalier was always a gift from your big (until GC I thought it was that way everywhere). I wouldn't consider that "lavaliering. "

True story. You can't compare what a 30 year old wants with what a 20 year old wants and using it as an argument is silly.

OldOleMiss, that is a beautiful story. As Patricia Neal said, there are as many ways to love as there are people to love.

Same.

Perhaps but this goes beyond age. This is also about campus culture, certain GLO cultures, and other things. My perspective on lavaliering now is not too different than my perspective on lavaliering almost 20 years ago. The people in this thread who like lavaliering are past their 20s yet they still appreciate lavaliering.

OldOleMiss, I loved reading your stories; especially the one about your father in law. It actually reads like an upbeat version of something Faulkner would write!

For the second story, though, I think I would have to agree with Sciencewoman. I don't think I could be as generous as you were. The only similar situation I could come up with regarding my own life would be if I found a sorority Badge that wasn't DZ and called the lady up and she divulged that she had my husband's Naval Academy class ring (no fraternities where he went to school), I would have said no how, no way, give it back.

Know what though? It makes me happy that there are such kind people like you in the world :)

When the Theta Tau Chapter of Sigma Chi was installed, I was presented with a badge replica (a charm) by their Grand Consul Keith Sorensen. I was then married to the president of the local/new chapter. When I divorced him, I gave him back the badge he had pinned me with, but did NOT give him my badge charm. That was presented to me in recognition for all I did to help the colony (and trust me, it was a great deal). Since I was given it independent of my relationship with Bozo, I didn't think he had a claim to it.

I think it is completely different if it is your spouse rather than your parent. I know I would completely feel the same if I found out that my husbands "missing badge" was in the possession of his ex and he had her badge!!! I also never told my mother about the badges as I think it would upset the heck out of her as well... but for me, not being the spouse, I think it is a sentimental and sweet reminder of "they way they were".

Ha.. ha.. ha... at Ole Miss as well (at least in my chapter!!!)-- but I did like a good candlelight!!! :D (yes I am a traditional sap!)

At Tulsa University, for a lavalier or pinning, the guy would get duct-taped to the (large) anchor statue in front of DG (no matter what sorority his girlfriend was a member) -- in his underwear -- by his fraternity brothers. If it was winter, his brothers would also (lovingly?) throw a bucket of cold water on him too.

And oh, OldOleMiss -- don't make me cry. At work.

But we are right 33girl!!!! Didn't you get the memo????? :p

Never having been laveliered in college (at a school where it most definitely was done :( ) I would have loved to participate in the tradition. Not enough to put up with any of the guys I had any hope of getting to that point with, but still...

But I think it does bring up an interesting question about same-sex sharing of letters and men or women who are both part of different fraternities. I find it more interesting than important to resolve, but I can't help but think this is a kumbayah moment. I wasn't in college THAT long ago, and there's no way in hell this issue would have been discussed with a straight face or without a huge dose of derision. Now, I remember a guy friend telling me some of the fraternities should have been having exchanges (as we called them, mixers, parties, whatever you call them) with EACH OTHER. But that was a pretty controversial thing to say. There wouldn't have been a glimmer of a thought that this Kappa Sig would have worn a Lambda Chi lavelier.

My chapter does this, in a sense--bigs purchase lavaliers for the little to receive upon initiation.

Stop white-shaming them!!! :p Stop!!!!!

To me, this gets at the practical crux of the matter. Questions of whether it's an outdated tradition, sexist or heterosexist aside, when a male lavalieres or pins a female or allows her to wear his letters in some other way, there is no risk of confusion that she will be seen as a member of his fraternity. (That is, assuming we're not talking about a co-ed fraternity.) But when a male lavalieres or pins his boyfriend or otherwise allows him to wear letters, then there is that risk of confusion. Perhaps a solution lies in some token specifically intended only for a significant other.

Disclaimer: My fraternity doesn't allow anyone other than initiated brothers to wear the letters or the badge, so traditional lavaliering or pinning is out for us. It was once allowed, and we did once have a smaller mother's/wife's/fiancée's badge available, but it has since been prohibited nationally.