Accepting a bid, but postponing pledging?
 

I advise at a school with a small (2 sororities), but growing Greek system. Last year quota was 6. This year, I'm guesstimating 10-12. I received a question from a chapter member today that some of the PNMs are asking. If they go through recruitment and are offered a bid, can they wait to pledge in spring after saving money for dues. I know bids are good for a year, but I've never actually seen someone come, say, 9 months later and accept their bid the pledge. What happens if we are already at/over total in spring? Can we pledge them? If they are part of our quota and accept, but don't pledge, could we still COB to total if we need to?

I've never encountered NM asking this before. It would absolutely be best for BOTH chapters if these PNMs pledged in fall and I really want to know how to respond to PNMs who are weighing this option. Can someone help me?

Is there a reason why finances is a question that is coming up more than once? Are your dues too high for your campus? Our basic quill is really inexpensive and if you don't have a house there shouldn't be a huge pledge expense.

I personally think as a matter of policy, this is a bad idea. If this happens to 1 girl with a special circumstance, that's one thing but if it's true that SOME girls are asking the question, then something should be changed. Are you in communication with the other sorority's advisor? Are they getting the same question?

You hate to turn away members when you're talking those kinds of numbers, but I think it could set a precedent that isn't healthy for the whole system, not just your chapter.

We do have houses and that's a big chunk of the expenses. Our dues are still very reasonable considering the house and the other chapter is a bit higher than us too. The chapter functions on a VERY tight budget.

Believe me, I don't want to set this precedent either!!! I've met the other chapters advisor once. She's new and from the looks of it very green. I've the question out to the Greek Advisor. Since there are only 2 chapters, it is best have a neutral third party.

It seems that with the chapters tight budget and the small pledge classes, allowing the PNMs to accept a bid, but not actually pledge(or pay) until the spring, might handicap the chapter. Does the campus also hold spring recruitment? If so, perhaps the GL advisor could encourage them to rush in the spring.

I think you CAN do this, but my question is WHY would you offer a bid to someone who does not have the finances? If they save money and feel they can afford it at a later date, tell them to come back through. What happens if they don't get enough money? Are you expected to hold their spot? I wouldn't count my chickens before they hatch, but I might sit on those eggs and nurture them a little. ;)

In spring, both chapters hold a mini recruitment/COB week of their own. Very relaxed. COB on this campus is like pulling teeth. I am in agreement with all of you, I would rather not bid the women until spring or when/if ever. Now, is there a good message that chapter women (who may not see the whole picture even if I explain it 3 times) can communicate to PNMs without looking like stuck up snobs. That's really what I looking for.

I am curious if anyone has had to deal with this before too....

Also, if this really isn't done or recommended when it's allowed, why would NPC allow it?

Why are you doing a formal recruitment with only two chapters, anyway?

I think if this were to be allowed (for no other reason than the PNMs can't afford it - and they know that going into recruitment), then you'd be opening a can of worms that you really don't want to open. Let's say the chapter makes quota, but half the girls are being held over until the following semester - that's (potentially) 6 girls that you're not collecting dues from, but that are taking up spots (which other PNMs would be willing to take.. and pay for). And what happens when the other 6 girls who received bids find out about this? Do you think they'll want to pay up front?

These types of things are usually done only in special circumstances. For example, if a PNM's parent became ill, and they find themselves having to help out their family rather than put money toward dues.

I find it rather strange that numerous PNMs are asking such a question. Are they asking because your dues are too high... or because they're "trying to get away with something," for lack of a better term?

And this is a very good question. Two chapters (and quota at 6 last year) shouldn't = formal recruitment, in my opinion.

OK, so this is just a marketing problem. You want to come up with a pat, said verbatim by every girl statement that says (and we can brainstorm this here until it's right) something like:
We would love for you to consider membership in Alpha Xi Delta. Because financial responsibility is a big part of your lifelong membership, you should not pursue membership until you are ready to shoulder the fees.

The pitfalls to avoid are any sort of promise for future membership or sense that you are turning them down just because of the money. I think my version above is a little too clinical for 18 year old girls to hear, so maybe someone can soften that up a bit while still keeping it on point.

But if you have a chapter house, you need to get those numbers up and 10 or 12 versus 6 is huge. Good luck and hopefully this will work for you!

I think DubaisSis has a good method, but keep inviting them to open events like philanthropy events so they see you are interested in them.

I am with everyone else on not opening the can of worms offering to let these girls delay their bid for a semester. In addition to all the excellent points they bring up, I am also concerned for their ongoing finances. If they need this semester to save up for next semester are they going to be able to afford the remaining 3 years of their sorority commitment? This sounds like financial resignation waiting to happen.

Excellent point!

And Dubaisis, good start on the statement. I hope that Greek life will address the problem and take the heat off the sororities.

We call it formal recruitment. Technically it's probably partial (ish). On a smaller engineering/architecture campus where there is 1 female to 7 or 8 males and PNMs tend to be VERY introverted it is safety in numbers. Most of these girls would never be greek if they went to a liberal arts school, but here it works and they fit into either chapter. Since Greek life never occured to the majority of them, neither did the financials. Some of it is purely stick shock I assume. On this campus it really IS the truth that if you want to be around other women, you need to be Greek. It's where the women are!

That said, last years quota of 6 was a small year in many ways due to bad pre-recruitment PR. We actually took in an additional 10 girls in COB later in the year and I know the other chapter took in a few from COB also. This year the PR has been better (thanks to a new, amazing greek advisor and a strong Panhellenic!) and our interest is back to where it used to be. We only added quota and total about 4 years ago. In my opnion it was needed. At the time it was added, one chapter had 40 and the other has 12. They really couldn't compete well and there was bad blood between the groups. Last spring one had 30 and the other 33. The system is MUCH more stable and they get along very well. Plus, they are both growing!

Both sororities hold open events together wearing panhellenic shirts just to get the PNMs to realize there are other women on campus. Imagine being the only female in all your classes. That's pretty common. PNMs tend to hybernate because there are so many guys around. These open events are simply to help them get comfortable and though we would love them to come to actual recruitment events, it's really just to make the PNMs feel comfortable on campus in the sea of men. After a few weeks we hold recruitment events, but it's still more relaxed then what other schools do.

I know all this small campus stuff is foreign to the large recruitments out there. I came from a larger system from this myself. The key is it WORKS for this campus. There has been 10 years of trial and error to get this process together and truthfully when you pledge 15-20% of incoming freshmen you aren't doing so bad, you just need to do better. Retention is GOOD! We've had 100% retention for a few years and I know the other chapter has had success retaining too.

Maybe this is just a weird year with funky questions.....looks like my message to my girls will be to gracefully and carefully recommend the PNMs with the concerns wait and COB in spring (if the chapters are below total).

Thanks for the advice!!

The thing that I am concerned about is participation in sorority events during this limbo period. Do we really think that these girls are not going to want to participate in sorority activities? And the actives are going to be concerned about losing the PNM/ pledge during that limbo semester, so they may allow the girl to come to events... without paying the dues needed ot pay for the event.

If you have gotten this question from more than 1 PNM in the same rush, I honestly think that this is a bright idea cooked up by a PNM in order to play without paying. She has passed her idea on to some other girls, who think it is a great idea, too.

I agree with the other ladies, shut it down.

I came from a similar school environment (smaller Greek system, unbalanced ratio of guys to girls), and we didn't have formal recruitent at all. At the time, it worked. Things have changed over the years though, with more majors offered, more girls applying, and more interest in Greek life.

You claim that the system this school currently has is working, but in my opinion, based on what you've posted, it's not. If you're giving out more bids with COB and PNMs feel more comfortable in a relaxed get-to-know-you type setting, why would you continue using "formal" recruitment?

I know it's not really your decision to make, but from what little I've read here, this screams "We should only be using COB"

We used to do this back in dino days. It is Green Book permissible. The fact of the matter was that it was partially 1) to snap up the women and 2) to up our numbers. We were small and this option was mostly offered to women who already knew most of the chapter but for one reason or the other weren't able to pledge when the bid was offered, but did want to "declare their intentions" with us. For the most part it did work, but then there were a couple women it didn't work with plus the Greek life director said it was hazing (which is bullshit but whatever) so we stopped.

However, if you have women ACROSS THE BOARD requesting this option - and not the sororities offering it - for monetary reasons almost exclusively, that means dues are too high for the campus. Something's got to go. I know people don't like to hear this but if the house is killing you get rid of it. Try a block of apartments instead.

I also think that deferred rush would solve a lot of your problems. If I was a brand new freshman on a campus with that male/female ratio I'd be clinging to my girls every minute too. They need a semester to relax and get to realize that dudes are just smelly and gross. :p

And you could do a moderately deferred rush, like Ole Miss who do it in October. That way the girls will be good and ready to make those bonds and pay whatever it takes!
Presuming these girls are of the smarty-pants variety, selling long term return on investment will probably work better than they would at the huge social life schools.

It doesn't surprise me that the girls are just having sticker shock. They haven't been bred from day 1 to join a sorority and if they are worried about paying for friendships, that is easy enough to counter. Networking, alumnae life, connections now, social life now, PLUS a good place to live outside the dorms and real food. If you're trying to sell an SEC style Greek experience, it's definitely going to fall flat, but what you have to offer is maybe even more critical to their happiness and personal success in college.

If you're in the middle of recruitment now, maybe you can think about a moderately more formalized COB in the spring, plus recruitment next year in mid-September or later. The good news with this small of a Greek system is you can make changes without a presidential decree.

I am a chapter advisor as well, and I got asked this question by 2 of the ladies who got bids from my chapter on bid day. Here is what I learned.

a) Formal recruitment bids are good for a year, so even if you don't want to advertise that this can be done, you definitely should expect that when this scenario comes up you would allow that woman to complete the new member program the following semester or whatever.

b) If a girl matches bids in Formal recruitment and chooses not to take her bid at that time, but wants to join up later in that year, she is allowed to do so *even if the chapter has subsequently pledged Quota AND is at Total!". This is in the NPC Manual of Information and is part of the Panhellenic compact. From what I understand, the reasoning for this provision in the the Panhellenic compact is to accommodate the PNMs. If they sign the MRABA and get a bid from a chapter on the MRABA form, they are locked in to where they can only be in that chapter for a year - which means if they initially decline to join but the chapter reaches quota and total, they would be totally locked out of Greek life for the year. The NPC doesn't want to do that to women who want to be Greek. Makes sense to have this provision in there for those rare circumstances where it would apply.

In my case, the woman who was hesitant to join the chapter right after Formal is concerned primarily because she is also in Army ROTC and she wants to have a semester of getting used to that program before she commits to the sorority. She really loves the chapter I advise but wants to feel good about having her other ducks in a row - particularly the duck that is paying for her education.

I know the campus Trish speaks of, and only COB is a terrifying idea to me. I simply don't understand the logic behind COB only campuses, and how chapters can be successful. This school had one year, before quota and total were implemented, where one chapter for 16 NMs, and the other got 8. There was alot of bad blood that year, unpanhellenic drama, and the following year was when quota and total were implemented. COB doesn't force you to have quota, and quota is absolutely necessary. "Formal recruitment" at this campus is also necessary, because as Trish said, safety in numbers, and the PR aspect of it. Girls who wouldn't consider sorority membership come out because their roommate is going, etc.

So if you do have experience with COB only schools.... how does it work? How do the chapters recruit fairly? Do they still have quota? And if so, how is it set? If you don't have formal preference and a set number of girls signing bid cards, how does quota get set at a reasonable number that all chapters can have a fair shot?

Not that I see this campus changing anytime soon... but I'm curious to know how this would work without one chapter getting completely screwed, or greek life interest completely dwindling (this was the fate of one chapter on campus before the other arrived...) because the engineering super nerds won't come out of the dorms. Hah!

The problem with this is that the NM is locked in for the year, but the chapter is NOT. If the NM wants to wait a semester, she needs to make sure the chapter is on board. Just because her bid is good for one year does NOT mean that the chapter is required to uphold the bid offer at a later date. Considering that the NM may put off pledging for time management or financial regions, chapters may have valid reasons for rescinding their bids.

I've worked with campuses that have only informal recruitment. No Quota is used. The way you keep things even is by having a realistic Total. Chapters can't go over that.

I would suggest, as a possible solution, working out a payment plan over the entire year, ensuring the amounts that need to be sent to your organization are covered prior to Initiation but the amounts that stay in the chapter are spread over the spring term.

Example (trying to use easy to round numbers):
New member term:
New member fee (to HQ): $50
Initiation fee(to HQ): $200
Monthly member/new member dues: $100 x 4 months (Sept-Dec)= $400
Monthly member/new member dues: $100 x 4 months (Jan-Apr)= $400

Total fees for year: $1050

Typically, $650 of that would be due the first term and only $400 the second term. However, why not even it out monthly so each young woman is paying $131.25/month instead. The $250 owed to HQ is still covered during the new member period but the dues are spread out more evenly through the whole year.

I say this as the parent of a college sophomore who was pretty freaked out about money that first month of her freshman year. Having just paid tuition, buying all that dorm room stuff, travel expenses to get to school, etc. it would have been a very tough time to come up with all that money. Also, work study type jobs take a few weeks to get and then a couple weeks before the paychecks start rolling in so the student has no income for a little bit. By second term, it's all in place and is much easier. I'm glad Hypo had deferred recruitment!

As AGDee said, there is no quota, but you keep total at a reasonable number. Therefore, no chapter can ever go above total. It works the same way that fraternities recruit, but with a limit on the total number of members.

If strictly COB wouldn't work, then I agree with others that there should be some kind of deferred recruitment. I have experience working with chapters where girls don't come in thinking, "I need to be Greek!" and if they're not thinking that week 1, then it's going to take some convincing. And most times, that convincing doesn't occur in a week or two... at least not with large numbers of girls.

Having half as many new members in the fall through formal recruitment as you have in the spring during informal recruitment means something is backwards.

The biggest thing I think a campus panhellenic needs to think about when selecting a recruitment style is whether the effort=the benefit. Some of the campuses with chapters I've worked with where they do COB only now had quotas of 6 or less every year. Is it worth that budget, time and effort for 6 new members? One campus had a quota of 2 one year. All that, for two? It just isn't worth it.

Exactly. Too much time, money, and effort is spent during formal recruitment to only come out with 6 new members in the end. And it especially doesn't make sense if you're getting 12 new members with informal recruitment, which most likely takes up only a fraction of the time, money, and effort of formal recruitment.

As the old adage says: work smarter, not harder.

Ok... Thanks so much for the explanations :)

So that brings me to another question then. How do you get the necessary data to justify expansion, if that could be a possibility? For example, due to the nature of recruitment, and these girls being the type that "typically wouldn't go greek" the COB only with total could possibility limit greek life interest. It's been a long time coming, but both chapters are alot more stable now. With total where it is right now, it's possible that both chapters will be just at, or maybe slightly over total with formal recruitment and quota. So lets say that total is 35, both chapters have 30 going into formal recruitment and quota is 10. Okay... so I know that some of you are going to say "increase total!" but I don't know if that is the right answer. What if a 3rd chapter could be needed? If we had total at 35, and several years of formal recruitment and both chapters ending up over total after formal recruitment, it may be a good time to discuss expansion. But if you do COB only, you limit the chapters to only picking up enough girls to meet total, and won't necessarily know if there is enough interest to warrant a 3rd chapter, because the girls who didn't join aren't the type to express interest because they didn't know that greek life was really an option, nor do they care.

I'm a money person - I feel ya on the amount of money spent and the effort, and think it's a very valid point, but I think last years quota was artificially low. Quota is typically 9-12, and we're hoping it will be more than that this year. 15 would be AWESOME (fingers crossed).

If more and more women are showing up to COB events and both chapters are having to turn away women they really want because there are too many, then it is time to raise Total. If there were enough of those women to fill a whole chapter to Total, then consider expansion.

It's a Panhellenic decision, but I don't think I would encourage expansion until both chapters were pretty consistently around 50 members and you were turning lots of women away, honestly. If quota is typically 9-12, then, without having COB and with 100% retention, an ideal total would be two times that- 36-48. But, if Total is 48 and you have one less stellar year with a quota of 6, then both chapters are scrambling to get 6 more through COB to stay up there. And, retention is rarely 100%.

Not every school has massive chapter sizes and still has expansion (looking at DePaul and Virginia Commonwealth) because I'm assuming they have a total in their head that they want to keep and continued expansion is what it's taking to get that done. But I think 35 as a desired total is too low. It doesn't allow for any hiccups in the process. Shoot for 50-60, use the chapter averaging to set total annually, and when you are pushing 50-60, you could open up for expansion. Since panhellenic only consists of 2 chapters, your decision to expand or not expand is pretty easy. If the other chapter is on board with this type of goal setting, then I think you could start researching the process now, quietly start figuring out which sororities might be on board when the time comes, and then go about getting the numbers to justify the growth.

Well, at schools like this, the $$ and time outlay for rush is considerably smaller than a Big 10/SEC school. For instance, we never had a work week - I don't think any of the groups did. We barely had dress checks and we certainly didn't buy special clothing. The people who were in the skit practiced it a couple times, and that was it. As far as $$? I know this is decades ago, but when I read about chapters spending thousands of $$$....I don't think everyone (7 groups) on our campus spent $1000 combined.

The point is too often - especially if the school allows first semester freshmen to rush - women get in their head which group they want before meeting all or even half of them. They go to that group and only that group's COB events. The group doesn't bid her. This doesn't make her say "well, XYZ didn't want me, I'll check out the other groups." This makes her say "sorority girls are all stuck up bitches and I want nothing to do with the Greek system." She might not have that attitude if she had gotten to meet women in the other chapters and realize that there is more than one group out there.

I know it seems like it isn't worth it, but if it keeps women engaged and interested in the possibility of Greek life, even with a quota of 2, it IS worth it.

I'm picturing 2 sororities with 30 members each trying to pull off door stacking or out-shouting the other as you do your skits and the crazy antics at door open and door close. HA! Yes, the very small campus rush resembles the huge schools in that there are actives meeting rushees, and at the end there are pledges. And that's about the end of the similarities. There would be no trying to game the system so they could get away with spending an extra $500 or $1000 since they wouldn't even be able to figure out HOW to spend that much money if they had it. And this is something that should be nurtured. No need to noodge them into starting any bad habits!

I had never even HEARD of door stacking until GC. Until the chapters got houses a few years ago, recruitment was held in 2 rooms in the student center.... and there was no door stacking then... though, there was alot of singing as loud as possible without sounding like a screeching owl after the PNMs left and the door was closed.

Thought I would provide a follow up...

Quota was 13 this year. I know we pledged all our NM's without any of the concerns I started this thread about. Not sure about the other chapter, but I assume much of the same. We had a few girls who dropped out to wait for spring, assuming the chapters are below total.

Thanks for the advice...looks like it worked out.