grades and recruitment
 

A lot more recently PNM's are coming to Greekchat and asking for advice about recruitment, and they have low GPA's.

I got to thinking about it and I'm wondering why the schools have GPA requirements to allow girls to go through recruitment that are LOWER than what the chapters will accept?

I know that some schools may only require a 2.5 for a girl to go through recruitment, but some sororities their nationals has said "you may only accept girls who have a ? gpa" (2.8, 3.0, etc...).

So my question is why are the schools allowing these girls to go through recruitment? I don't want to be mean, but all it does is give them false hopes. If the school knows that the most if not all chapters won't accept anyone with lets say less than a 2.8, shouldn't they raise their minimum to be theirs? To me that seems the most logical.

I've already had to tell 2 PNM's, as politely and nicely as possible, that their low GPA's and non-freshman status doesn't help them in recruitment, in fact it will hinder them. I truly feel bad, but I also don't feel that they should be mislead by anyone here or even at the university that they will in fact receive a bid.

Thoughts? Discussion?

On one hand, Panhellenics may not want to have a say in who can sign up for recruitment despite knowing what the chapters want because it's not up to them to tell girls they most likely will be released, just like at schools where recs are absolutely required and Panhel says they're not necessary to participate. On the other hand, Clemson for example says on their registration page in highlighter yellow that any PNM with under a 2.7 will be immediately released from recruitment, so my logic fails a little there.

I would rather the GPA requirement be raised to the lowest minimum among all the sororities, but maybe that falls into MS? I'm not sure, but I know girls going through recruitment with me that probably won't get too far because of their GPA and I feel bad for them already because they don't seem to know of the heartache that lies ahead.

We've talked about this here before. The bottom line is that the schools can't decide for the sororities who they will/won't take, and the school doesn't know every sorority's MS procedures, so it would be nice if they strongly discouraged PNM's from rushing with low GPA's, but they just don't do it.

Are they still allowed to go through one round? I can still see women signing up for recruitment, being released after the first round due to GPA, and then going for COB when their GPA is higher. The sisters would remember them from before, which they may view as a positive.

On another note, do many sororities have have GPA limit not just re: membership selection, for sisters as well? Groups at some schools do advertise to PNMs that they have a minimum GPA to follow as a new member and a member--but this may not be common.

I guess it would be best to address why many schools don't stress the importance of grades during recruitment--especially considering that if a PNM does join, it will only add more stress and time management issues to keep up!

I know for ADPi the chapters have their own GPA requirements and if a sister falls below that requirement there are "problems" (lack of a better word) for that sister.

It just seems cruel to lead a PNM on. To let her think that her 2.5 is "good enough". Yes, some girls will understand that it isn't, but there are a lot of "special snowflakes" out there who won't get it.

I just feel that if, lets say ABC chapter will only accept new members with a 2.8 or higher, and they are the lowest when it comes to new member GPA, that the university should say that PNM's must have a 2.8 to go through recruitment. Then there is a chance for that PNM to possibly get a bid. Does that make sense.

Or they just need to be honest with the girls in advance and tell them straight out that low GPA's will probably get them cut. I think they should be spared the tremendous heartache that comes later.

It's a gray area. Without getting too much into MS, I know of girls who had below the rock-bottom minimum chapter GPA and still pledged. There were extenuating circumstances (bad HS semester due to a death in the family, illness etc...) and that PNM was well-liked and exceptions must have been made. The chapter was willing to take the risk on her.

If she'd been told she could not participate by panhellenic - well, that would have been a shame.

ETA - it's the exception and not the rule, for sure!!

I think that some universities have noticed that students in the Greek system are more likely to get involved on campus, more likely to graduate, and more likely to give back to the community. A healthy Greek system can help overall retention, and so the university wants to encourage participation.

Without getting into MS, some chapters of some NPC groups can pledge one or two women below the GPA requirement and then wait until the following semester to see if they bring their grades up to initiate them. This is rare and is something that would be a case by case basis and would usually be for an upperclassman that everyone already knew. If she can't bring her grades up by the end of the semester, then she can't be initiated and that can lead to heartbreak. Especially in a competitive recruitment, it is better to let a student that doesn't meet the GPA requirement go first round. It is often better to wait until COB the following semester

I think that in some places, allowing a girl to go through early rounds and meet women (who pleasantly surprise her by NOT being the sorority stereotype) and letting her know "you were just cut because of grades, everyone really dug you!" can actually motivate a girl to improve her grades and re-rush because she thinks "hey, that's something I want to be part of."

The coolness of this idea, however, flies out the window when you are talking about super competitive rushes where the rush fee itself is quite large, before you even touch on the investment made in clothes and shoes.

Arizona strongly discourages PNMs from going through if their GPA doesn't meet the chapters' published minimums. In other words, PNMs are told point-blank by Greek Life Office that the probability of being released is extremely high. That said, there are plenty of special snowflakes who insist on going through and are released after Open House.

The cached webpage (for some reason the official site is down) says: *NOTE: You must have a minimum 2.70 cumulative GPA in order to participate in Panhellenic Recruitment. All GPAs are checked and verified pre-recruitment. Those that do not meet the 2.70 cumulative GPA requirement will be released and will not be permitted to participate in the recruitment process. We do not round GPAs. NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE.*

I'm not sure if this lets you go through the first round or not, but they make it sound like it doesn't. I'll see if I can ask my Pi Chi tonight because I am curious as well.

I seem to remember my Panhel stating something similar. I've never been on the Panhel side of things, so I don't know when they check grades or if it is possible to warn PNMs. I also don't know to what extent that oversteps some boundaries.

I'm glad some schools do really stress the grades, though!

Well letting them rush anyway can still cause all kinds of hurt feelings for the PNMs and make the sorority members look really bad. My school goes out of its way to tell PNMs that a minimum of 3.0 is strongly suggested to go through and even puts the suggested minimum for each house in our recruitment guide and kind of hits the PNMs over the head with it. Still every year girls you really like that you know from home or whatever come through with GPAs that just have no chance at all and you have to cut them. It ends up making them think you don't like them because by letting them go through recruitment it gives them false hope that someone can do something in your chapter because we already know her and can somehow get something special done to get her a bid in spite of her 2.6 or whatever. It really causes a whole bunch of hurt feelings and all for no reason.

Agreed. When I first went to college, it was at a top 20 school so high school GPA wasn't ever something we had to worry about for fall recruitment. We did switch to a winter recruitment though, so there was a minimum GPA as freshman 1st quarter grades were received before rush started. I ended up transferring and graduating from a state school near home, and girls would go through that we all knew from high school and yes, there were a bunch of hurt feelings when the super popular girl with the super low GPA went through. A couple of these girls ended up doing really, really well in college (and a few that I recall went on to medical/dental schools), but those were rare. And it's sometime just too risky to take a gamble on those when all you have to go off of is high school grades.

At my daughter's school (Kansas), the minimum strongly suggested GPA is 3.0 and each chapters' average GPA is published in the Greek Guide. The girls are warned that if their GPAs aren't at whatever houses' average, then they should anticipate a cut. Not that it always happens, but as a general warning it's very fair.

That's good that Arizona does that. If special snowflake wants to go through with a crappy GPA even though they have been told that they will be released, well let them.

I think more schools should be open and upfront with the PNM's. I really think it could diminish a lot of the anguish that the PNM's go through later.

Thankfully the advice I have given to two PNM's whose GPA is a bit low for recruitment has been taken and they thanked me for it. None of us go around saying things to hurt a PNM but they should be told the truth.

Washington State University also tends to let PNM's know ahead of time about GPA issues, but of course, there are girls that their personalities/connections/passion/ or what have you, will get them through. My sister thought that and boy was she wrong. She got invited to 5 houses after the first round, but still.

On the WSU website it clearly says more than once:


And its funny because this year a very high number of PNM's were dropped because of grades and were devastated but it was said plenty of times and they were even emailed by their Rho Gammas before recruitment started to let them know that their GPA's were low and to expect cuts.

I find this topic very interesting having been a grade risk myself. When I went through recruitment, the minimum GPA was a 2.5 - if you had a 2.5 or higher (irrelevant of higher chapter minimums), you were allowed to go through the first round. Women with lower GPAs would be released before the first round of recruitment (or not allowed to finish signing up). However, it's very likely that (like in my situation - I had a 2.5 as a result of my own neglect to my academics) you will not be asked back to a chapter that has those higher grade requirements NO MATTER WHAT. I was cut from several chapters that I loved/loved me because the fact is that my grades were not where they were supposed to be for a sorority woman.

Recently, my school changed the minimum to be a 2.7. My chapters GPA minimum is higher than that at a 3.0, so girls between the 2.7 and 3.0 are typically dropped after the first or second round. There are, of course, exceptions to this (legacies, certain recs, special circumstances), but those are rare.

To comment on why allow women to go through recruitment with awful GPAs is because (IMO) they want to give those freedoms to the chapters to make the decision overall (via Panhellenic minimums). While my chapter had a minimum of a 3.0, another could easily have one of a 2.5, and that's why Panhellenic set the standard at that. I think the reason why it was increased is because every chapter had a minimum GPA of a 2.7, and wanted to prevent unnecessary sign ups from women who were just going to be cut the first round... And possibly to raise the standard for the overall Panhellenic GPA.

Just my two cents :)

The University of Iowa's 2013 Council Publication lists the required GPA for each chapter. Assuming what's listed is accurate, I think it's great to be so upfront.

I'd add a link to it, but am not sure how to do that from my iPad. Sorry!

One reason schools may not want to be the ones to discourage those young ladies with low grades could be to cover themselves from possible action under ADA. They know which students receive services from their Special Services Department (some schools known as Disabled Students Union) and cannot prevent them from participating in activities under the ADA laws. In that case, it is easier on the schools to let each chapter make the determination as to whether to accept the young lady or not. Since women with good grades are released along with those with low grades, it is much harder to come back and claim she was discriminated against based on grades. The rec may include a statement regarding the young lady's disability and the chapter has the right to accept it or reject it based on their own chapter's/national's guidelines.

DaffyKD

Panhellenics need to put warnings in their recruitment information. If they don't, women with low GPAs will think they were only allowed to rush so PH could collect the fees.

I remember a girl who rushed in 2005 at a Georgia school. She had a 2.5 and I was astounded that PH let her rush but her mom said none of the literature said a thing about grades. The PNM was cut from every group after first rounds. Greek mom was sad and her daughter was mad about the wasted fee.

Could I ask, how do you know the bolded is true? Of course it could be, but how would anyone know why girls were dropped or that the number of girls dropped for grades this year was higher than in years past?

My sisters Rho Gam told her. I'm not sure how the numbers were years past, but that's just what she said.

I'm still dumbfounded at the <2.5 students being admitted to college.

If an individual can't get at least average in high school, with its (relatively) disciplined structure and its grade inflation, doing so in college (even with its grade inflation) seems far from a sure thing.

THATS THE PART THAT ALWAYS GETS ME! I know of many athletes with GPA's that low that get into college, and I still have a problem with that, don't get me wrong, but what I don't understand his how regular folks just go on and somehow skate by admissions with a 2.0.


And sadly, the lowest person I know to get into college had a 1.7 GPA. How is that even possible?

If I remember right, at my university if you scored above a certain number on SATs or ACTs, you were automatically granted admission, regardless of your GPA. But, if you had a low GPA, you'd be stuck in a "study skills" class. Same if you had a low SAT/ACT but a high GPA.

As a high school teacher, I can tell you there are often extenuating circumstances, most often medical. The most drastic being, a girl from my area had a brain tumor that caused her to miss a lot of school and not retain a good deal of the information she was taught. Once the tumor was diagnosed and treated, she rebounded but her high school GPA was very low due to the illness and absences. Her doctors from a very well known national hospital all wrote letters detailing her illness and recommending her for college. These letters were sent in with her applications. She is a junior in college and doing well.

Another more common exception is a learning disability that was not diagnosed until well into high school. With academic support, these students can be successful in college after a rough start in high school.

WestcoastWonder - I don't want to derail this thread too much, but your sister needs to be wary of where her Rho Gam or whoever is giving her all of this information (number of groups not making quota, why girls were dropped, etc,), is getting it. I know a lot of these same rumors/statements (virtually word for word) are on another site that shall remain nameless, and she needs to know that they are just that - gossip and rumors. Her Rho Gam might know how many girls were cut entirely, but she would have no way of knowing why they were cut for sure (she might offer a good guess, but that's all she could do).

WestcoastWonder - just curious, are you in an NPC sorority?

As for GPA requirements, Arizona Greek Life Office makes it abundantly clear to PNMs that GPAs below a certain cut-off = very high probability of being released from recruitment. PNMs can't be told "don't rush", that isn't up to Greek Life; but they do get the information.

The NPC UA#2 is the reason for all this. It states that a college panhellenic cannot restrict a woman from participation in requirements due to her GPA. It is up to each individual group to set their GPA requirement with no interference from PH. While this can cause some women to sign up who will be released at the first opportunity, do we really want the CPH deciding who we can recruit? Sorry, but I don't....

Do Rho Gams work in the best interest of the panhellenic council or the PNM? Please include information to support your answer. What if the Rho Gam is a close friend of the PNM?

Me either. Or is it me neither?

From the NPC MOI section on Recruitment Counselors:

The goals of the recruitment counseling program are to:
• Provide support, friendship and personal guidance to women participating in the recruitment process by women’s
fraternity members who are educated to represent Panhellenic attitudes and ideals.
• Provide objective and impartial counselors.
• Promote an understanding and explanation of the mutual selection process.
• Promote an understanding of the benefits of fraternity affiliation and emphasize the similarities in ideals and goals
of all women’s fraternities.
• Provide encouragement to the potential new members to continue recruitment through the Preference round during
fully structured recruitment and to accept the maximum number of invitations possible during each round of
recruitment.
• Promote membership recruitment retention and pledging by lessening disappointments and disillusionments.

This is a rare case, and trust me.. there are students with poor GPAs who are getting into college who never had any kind of medical issue. Most of the ones I've encountered didn't last long, and ended up dropping out.

I agree. But as others have said, I don't think it hurts to put the (inter)national minimum GPAs for each sorority out there, and to simply say something along the lines of, "Although these are the minimum GPAs (inter)nationally for each sorority, each chapter may determine that their minimum GPA is even higher than what is listed here."

This sounds like a formal test question. Just saying. :p

True, and I should be wary as well. If you look through my posts it often sounds like i'm beating a dead horse and constantly bringing up her recruitment, coversations with her Rho Gam and things about grades this year. It's all speculation and hearsay. And the majority of rumors are probably from disgruntled girls that got cut from houses they liked.

I'm not trying to pee on your leg and tell you it's raining, just telling you what I hear.

Thank you Titchou. <head nod>

On second thought, Bullet 2 seems unlikely for young ladies as active members and friends of PNMs to accomplish. It really takes a lot of maturity to be impartial. So, after further review, it seems normal for Recruitment Counselors to range their guidance from "maximize your options<high five>" to "drop now."
Rho Gams are really just a sounding board for the emotional toll of recruitment.

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LOVE IT! Is this regional? It sounds very military.

Lol i'm not sure, But it's a book by Judge Judy! Good read!

Still wondering if you're in an NPC sorority. Thought you might have overlooked my question on the previous page.

Didn't see that before, sorry! But I Could be. Could be not... However soon enough i'll divulge.

But then, in doing so, you're perpetuating the rumors, hearsay, gossip, etc. We've discussed in other threads the damage being done by alumnae and non-members who are heavily invested in the past and maintaining perceived tiers, etc. In another thread someone made some ridiculous comments about Arizona recruitment. I'm choosing to ignore that, for the time being.

Sororities were founded at a time when to be a woman in a college environment was extremely challenging. The focus on scholarship remains to this day. PNMs with lousy GPAs will likely forever remain PNMs, unless they apply themselves seriously to academics.

Equivocating confirms what we already know. The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.